It is a known fact that it was the liberal left that wanted every one to own houses whether they could afford them or not which created the housing market breakdown. Of course the liberals and the media then went after BUSH. It was totally mis-represented.

Like i said, HISTORY WILL TELL ALL.

Dont you know..in America......voting IS participating....and since we have voted....we have earned the right to complain....all of the complaining IS in support of our military.....and what they stand for....

I want to say I TOTALLY respect my VERY good buddy Big Tex and all who have posted their comments.

What is great about America is that we ALL can share are views with "dignity and respect"....Big Tex...we may disagree but I want to say Tex...your a VERY good Dogfight friend...

PS:....Tex?....thanks for trying to cheering me up in the game yesterday....I was kinda "down" yesterday....at the time it helped just a little bit....I'm better now...But I dont want to neglect you trying to help me yesterday and it did give me a "shove"...that was needed for me to get better over time.......Thanks my good friend...

Please dont take my responses of me not agreeing with you as that I dont respect you or that we arent friends....cause...I appreciate you...thanks

Good point DOUGHENS, great we can all talk about this. TEX is a good DOGFIGHTER. We just have different views.

thanks Davy.....No words can express how much respect I have for the Tex.....He helped me yesterday in game....and over the many many months...he has only shown kindness to me....yesterday....I thought "I would play a game of dogfight to cheer me up.".....Well strangely and for the first time it didnt work...because I was trying hard and I went (unthinkable).....0-10 in the dogfight room....it was so bad...Big Tex said "whats wrong Swop?...are you having a bad day?"....I knew he was thinking, correctly, beyond just the game....We talked it out a bit....and it helped....I made a mistake at work....which I corrected...and (being in family business)...a family member said "how could you mess up?'...it was a terrible morning....but after talking and playing with Big Tex....and have other games with Falcons (that's what REALLY helped)...I was better...

Davy ur right...him and us may have different views.....but man I think you and I can agree, hes one great guy....Big Tex that is

Davy Crockett wrote: It is a known fact that it was the liberal left that wanted every one to own houses whether they could afford them or not which created the housing market breakdown. Of course the liberals and the media then went after BUSH. It was totally mis-represented.

Like i said, HISTORY WILL TELL ALL.

At the same time Davy, Republican politicians (generally NOT republican voters and definitely NOT actual conservative voters) had a strong hand in allowing and motivating the financial industry to then bankroll high risk debt and slough it away into unknowing investors' investment funds.

As has been said here and in other discussions, the U.S. system of state and federal legislation, public funding, and oversight has a fatal flaw in that earmarks and backrubbing are standard practice and used so dramatically these days. "I'll sign your bill if you include huge dollars for my pet program, but hang on while I invest my own personal dollars in that contractor before we announce our deal so I can make a killing on insider trading made legal by our mutual lawmaking efforts. Never mind that we are spending tax dollars frivolously to get legislation passed; this is how we operate, and the people will never vote BOTH parties out, and Independents won't ever have the courage to change the system." This has always been a fatal flaw in the system.

I'm no Bush supporter myself. The guy squandered post 9/11 support for our country so fast, it was like there never was a 9/11. Even setting aside the war on terror, he practically looked liberal in his spending. He racked up debt like no one else... except for Obama. Like has been said, in some ways I hope I'm right about my suspicions of Obama's sinister motivations to permanently wound this country... because the alternative is that we've all elected a highly incompetent leader when it comes to recovering an economy. IMO, of course.

Manfred

As you said Swop... The first 6 years of Bush were pretty good economically. Hmm. What changed at 6 years??? I wonder??? . Oh yea!!!! The Democrats cried recession to the media night and day till they got in power in both houses, then they damn well made sure we got one.

Well Manny,......if 9/11 hadnt happened we would have had WAY less spending....He didnt spend as much as you think beyond the War on Terror....The War on Terror was what caused the increase in spending.... and that was necessary for all of the information needed and the ability to find that and get those others responsibile to get Osama and to minimize potential future terrorist actions cost money....and the ability to get Osama wouldnt have been there without Bush doing all that he did that was necessary.....only a third of the deficit spending was for things other than "war on terror"

Obama has spent THREE TIME if not MORE than what all Presidents deficits COMBINED.....

Found this typing Obama's believes.

Thank you NACHOO, that sums it up nicely.

That is just that truth, People say Religion is not important in politics, In my opinion it could break a nation!!!

To ronnie, assuming what you say is true ( and i dont doubt it bc im generally highly suspicious of my government) it just further illustrates yet another fundamental flaw of the American government system. We're supposed to trust that our government is doing the things that are in the best interests of the people right? How can you trust a government that doesnt trust its people and resorts to spying on them? I know that the govt. knows my name. Here's a suggestion to all the govt. spies watching this thread right now: GO SPY ON THE REAL ENEMY AND QUIT WASTING MY TAX DOLLARS SPIEING ON ME!!! feel free to pass my sentiments onto president lactard who wont even salute our troops

Did you all hear about the power grab today, change in our constitutional law. Shame ON OBAMA

Then the tea party dude who campaigns against drugs getting busted for coke, WHAT A HYPOCRITE

VOTE THEM ALL OUT AND START OVER.

I've kept quiet on this thread because politics almost always make me angry. Hypocrisy is the norm and I expect it from all politicians (or anyone in position of power). I am no fan of BHO. I know that the new "affordable" health care policies raised MY healthcare premiums 37%. Thank you very much! It's way more affordable now.

However, I am appalled and ashamed that of all the reasons anyone could find to criticize a president that it is a religious faith that is chosen. The very foundations of this country and the very constitution everyone is throwing around on this thread is a product the search for religious freedom. That's not Christian or Hebrew freedom. That's a right to choose ANY religion (or no religion at all). Find something from the overwhelming abundance of faults to pick on.

Parrot.. Down boy...

I don't claim to have the inside track on Obama's religious beliefs, nor do I really care what he believes. But, so many people's problem with it is that he has claimed to be one thing, while acting like anything but (at least in their eyes). This has just created more distrust for him. Granted, the are lots of Christians who don't like Muslims, and plenty of Muslims who don't like Christians. That's beside the point though. People's worries are more often based on having a leader who is in such a position of power, yet makes many people feel like they know nothing about him. One's faith and practice of it does give some insight to what makes the person tick etc etc etc. When the so called "leader of the free world" leaves so much in doubt, it's gonna create some questions. I'm like Davy though... I don't give a rat's ass about him now. I just want it to be over so that he can give speeches and build his library while hopefully someone else with a bit more sense can take the reigns.

I'm gonna need a new stick....

How about a louisville slugger, barrel heavy for more power at the sweet spot?

hi,

personally, I would have no problem with obama being muslim. One's religious beliefs are their own under the constitution. I do have a problem with him leaning towards socialism.

with regards to Europe,

I am sooooo glad we as a people have not given up our work ethic like Europe has.

I was in Europe, on a work trip a few years ago. Since this was an international company I had coworkers who were flown in from other European countries so I got to see alot of different characters. at lunch onetime, their was a huge discussion/argument where the French, scandinavians, italians, greeks and Spaniards took up positions against the americans and canadians. Their argument was that the americans and canadians work too hard making them look bad. That we dont take enough vacations. Are generally more about getting the work done then about managing their hours.

I think they get two months govt mandated vacation per year

As far as wellfare, I am reminded of an old ancient punjabi proverb

"ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"

John F. Kennedy said that and it's why he's in my top 5 best presidents this country ever had.

My dear MR. PARROT i don't think anyone was talking about his religion as much as we were talking about his LIES. His religion is just another example. He said he wasn't a Muslim and yet all the evidence says he is. He is one big LIE, his administration is a LIE and they wouldn't know the truth if it reached out and bit him. The general population is now beginning to realize that, thank goodness.

Having said that I will tell you that I would not care what religion a president was as long as they could properly govern the USA and i sincerely doubt that a Muslim could do that, especially one who is inclined to lie and cheat.

Annnnnnd This thread starts eroding away at some friendships....Maybe by posting this we will keep ourselves in check. Say what you want but please keep the friendships in place... I too have my opinions and fact's (fact's = I think I know) I won't share them here.
I alway's like to hear other point's of view... And I alway's listen, sometimes the other side makes a valid point that I can't wiggle my way out of.....

I'm never 100% right, probably lucky if I can hit 50%

Say what you will just don't get angry or offended.....

Dr. Dave I like the way you presented this....

Now I'm sure someone is rolling their eye's and putting their face in their palm's right about now... I've probably earned it. I think I'll just continue on and make my way to my mourning Poo....G'day all....

Yeah your right, i do get to passionate but it felt good to be able to get it off my chest.

To all of the offended, i offer my heartfelt apologies. This will be my last post on this thread. I wish to thank DR. DAVE and all who participated in this lively discussion.

And PARROT I love your avatar, who is that lovely young lady that looks so happy.

Kptn Singh wrote: hi,

personally, I would have no problem with obama being muslim. One's religious beliefs are their own under the constitution. I do have a problem with him leaning towards socialism.

with regards to Europe,

I am sooooo glad we as a people have not given up our work ethic like Europe has.

I was in Europe, on a work trip a few years ago. Since this was an international company I had coworkers who were flown in from other European countries so I got to see alot of different characters. at lunch onetime, their was a huge discussion/argument where the French, scandinavians, italians, greeks and Spaniards took up positions against the americans and canadians. Their argument was that the americans and canadians work too hard making them look bad. That we dont take enough vacations. Are generally more about getting the work done then about managing their hours.

I think they get two months govt mandated vacation per year

As far as wellfare, I am reminded of an old ancient punjabi proverb

"ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"

May I ask what you do for a living and what company you work for?
If you don't want to put your company's name on here please send me a PM.

Good post, Mr. Dent. No face palm, from me anyway.

I love all the folks who speak out. A world without passion is first boring, then pointless.

I love Big Tex because he makes me think hard about my beliefs. No one ever adjusts my principles, but Tex you reinforce what I tell others, to doubt what you hear and only go with what you know to be true. You make me rethink what I consider facts, and I thank you for that. If I'm on the contrary side in a debate, I want to be just like you Tex, disagreeing and laying it out, while garnering a boat load of.respect.

I love Davy because he exemplifies passion. He's the me I want to be when I get sick of things and wish I could care more. Davy, you are energy. I love ya man. But not in that way.

My wife and I tell each other to not discuss politics when our friends are around (we live in California, so most of our friends are left thinking). But this forum here is a nice opportunity to push beliefs back and forth, defend what we think we know to be true, maybe learn a little about other beliefs, and keep the respect flowing. And we can keep it unoffensive and friendly by following what Dent said.

Now, back to it. Who's going to make next moronic argument??

Just kidding

Oh and I forgot Dr Dave. You're the dad who makes his kids fight each other so they realize how much they respect each other. You big pot stirrer you.

Manfred

Your left is more to the right then our right, and I'm not right

Well I wanted to see what people thought of this Obama stuff without fighting.
Remember the last time we talked about this stuff it got UGLY!




Everybody remembers this...



Dent it's good to see your playing nice today and
It's nice to see your ok now Davy....


Yall keep playing nice

Now THAT was a funny post!

Lmao! Thats an awesome pic, any way i can get a copy of it?

Copy away

Ok I guess I missed the heated debate but I have something to say regarding MOST of Europe. Europe isn't that bad. During the Crusades nothing like this has happened before or probably will ever again. Massive armies of many kingdoms of Saxon,British,French,German,Italian, and more banded together and went south on a crusade. If those crusades didn't happen the world would be very different. First of all the Americas probably wouldn't have been discovered. The Saracens were pushing up into Europe and even gained control of many parts of Spain until everyone banded together and stopped them. Should they have not allied the Saracens could have taken them out one by one. The Saracens wouldn't have had the urge to sail across a vast ocean to what seemed like nowhere. It is hard to think of what May have happened without Europe acting so strongly but that is my personal idea. Europe has contributed so much and people need to know what they have saved and defeated.