I was just lonely Wig. Onsekone, that's the paranoid police state so many wish to create for us. To protect us of course...

Hey dave a lpe....just make sure you erm "use pretection" im sure you will use it so don't "cock it too much" lmbo

Dr Dave. I never knew how fulfilling this "gun sucking" could be. This afternoon I found this awesome midget. I thought I'd post some midget porn!!! Now you know who you have to call!

An airplane was about to crash; there were 5 passengers on board, but only 4 parachutes.
The first passenger said, "I am President Obama, the chosen one. The world needs me, I can't afford to die." So he took the first parachute and left the plane.
The second passenger, Julia Gillard, said, "I am the prime Minister of Australia and I am the smartest woman in Australian history, so Australia's people don't want me to die." She took the second parachute and jumped out of the plane.
The third passenger, John Kerry, said, "I'm a Senator, and a decorated war hero from the Army of the United States of America ." So he grabbed the parachute next to him and jumped.
The fourth passenger, ex-President George W. Bush, said to the fifth passenger, a 10-year-old schoolgirl, "I have lived a full life, and served my country the best I could. I will sacrifice my life and let you have the last parachute."
The little girl said, "That's okay, Mr. President. There's a parachute left for you. Australia 's smartest woman took my schoolbag.

Hey Jacklpe,
When is the Jolly Roger hosting a gun tasting?

Not sure man... I just found out I was a "gun sucker" a few days ago.

Man, when I penned that obviously mirror-moronic "gun-sucker" gem I had no idea I was launching a whole new fetishist lifestyle for the fashionably uninformed! I'll expect my regular royalty checks when T.G.I.Gunsuckers franchises start popping up throughout the south alongside the Waffle House. "Shoot me with your manly grit-pistol, Eustis!" Smothered 'N Covered, baby.

(Dave, that dwarf revolver does something fabulous for you. It must be the understated elegance in the delicate, feminine contours. And the gun looks kinda cute, too.)

To tell you the truth Wig, that little .38 revolver is one of my favorites. Comfortable to carry, reliable, pretty decent power, good ammo availability, and very lightweight. It spends most of its time in my pocket. As big as I am, it does look kind of funny in my hand. But, it serves it's intended purpose very well.

If I make any money on the "solvent house" I'll send you half of the profit.

Thanks for the laughs.

Wig, I wish we all lived in a Utopian world where no one ever robbed, raped, killed, or kidnapped anyone. I wish that cops weren't so damned heavy, so I could carry one of them with me instead. I wish that T-Bones fell off of trees too so that we never ever had to kill any animals for food either. I wish that all government's were honest, and truly cared about serving those that empower them. Unfortunately, that ain't the case, so I'm just gonna have to remain "fashionably uninformed". Maybe the afterlife will be better.

Jack

Please don't try and carry me around!

TX LAWMAN wrote: Jack

Please don't try and carry me around!

No worries, there's an app for that.
Pocket Cop

Lol TX.

Jacko, I live in that utopia. I live in California! All those things are true. I love it here... here... here...

*** ... and then he woke up. So much for utopia!

Manfred wrote: Lol TX.

Jacko, I live in that utopia. I live in California! All those things are true. I love it here... here... here...

*** ... and then he woke up. So much for utopia!

I lived in California in the 80's.... Utopia??? Other than the BIG BOOBS on the beach........ You may have something there Manny.... ... Wait. Crap I'm married never mind.... California sux...... It's good to be back in Mexico..... ....I mean Texas....

I live in that utopia. Really. I don't need to carry gun, because carrying a gun is illegal. And so is self defense. If someone brakes in my house in the middle of night with knife or crowbar, I cannot use my guns. If I shoot (even warning shot) I'm the one in touble with law. At least that’s better than my kids losing their dad/life... According to our legal praxis, I can use only similar power as the attacker uses. It's like old-fashioned duel.

Anyway, going to jail in here is not so big deal. Most of the prisons are just places, where prisoners go to sleep. Usually they must be inside between 7pm and 7am. So in daytime they can go to work or study. And sentences are short. Murder brings always life time, but is actually from 10 to 20 years. Mostly about 14 years. Manslaughter (which would be the case in self defense) means anything between 4 to 12 years. But first timers sit only 1/3 of their sentence. And if it's three years since you were last time in prison, you are first timer. To make situation even worse, prisoners get paid for being in prison. It is not much, maybe 6-7$/day. But it sure is enough to bring people from poorest east-European countries to make crimes in Finland. They cannot loose in this game. If they do not get caught, they make a fortune. If they get caught, they might go to comfortable prison, and get paid more than is the minimum wage in their home country.

General view of people is that sentences are too short. This kind of legal-praxis does nothing protect people from criminals. Especially when crimes are directed to children. If kidnapping and raping child is rewarded with imprisonment, it is going to be very short time. I can remember a case a couple of years ago, when young man kidnapped eight years old girl and raped her twice. He got two years probation. So if he rapes again in next few years, he will be sentenced to two years in prison.

But thanks Jacklpe for bringing utopia into this conversation. I would like to hear the rest of it. Manfred already shared something about his.

Rick, you haven’t been talking much about how things should be. What is your utopia? If you had same country and same people, what would you change and what would you keep?

Writing this underdeveloped language is kind of slow, so I most likely don’t have time to write my utopia today, but I will in few days.

Jacklpe wrote: An airplane was about to crash; there were 5 passengers on board, but only 4 parachutes.
The first passenger said, "I am President Obama, the chosen one. The world needs me, I can't afford to die." So he took the first parachute and left the plane.
The second passenger, Julia Gillard, said, "I am the prime Minister of Australia and I am the smartest woman in Australian history, so Australia's people don't want me to die." She took the second parachute and jumped out of the plane.
The third passenger, John Kerry, said, "I'm a Senator, and a decorated war hero from the Army of the United States of America ." So he grabbed the parachute next to him and jumped.
The fourth passenger, ex-President George W. Bush, said to the fifth passenger, a 10-year-old schoolgirl, "I have lived a full life, and served my country the best I could. I will sacrifice my life and let you have the last parachute."
The little girl said, "That's okay, Mr. President. There's a parachute left for you. Australia 's smartest woman took my schoolbag.

This made me laugh my head off .

onsekone wrote: I live in that utopia. Really. I don't need to carry gun, because carrying a gun is illegal. And so is self defense. If someone brakes in my house in the middle of night with knife or crowbar, I cannot use my guns. If I shoot (even warning shot) I'm the one in touble with law. At least that’s better than my kids losing their dad/life... According to our legal praxis, I can use only similar power as the attacker uses. It's like old-fashioned duel.

Anyway, going to jail in here is not so big deal. Most of the prisons are just places, where prisoners go to sleep. Usually they must be inside between 7pm and 7am. So in daytime they can go to work or study. And sentences are short. Murder brings always life time, but is actually from 10 to 20 years. Mostly about 14 years. Manslaughter (which would be the case in self defense) means anything between 4 to 12 years. But first timers sit only 1/3 of their sentence. And if it's three years since you were last time in prison, you are first timer. To make situation even worse, prisoners get paid for being in prison. It is not much, maybe 6-7$/day. But it sure is enough to bring people from poorest east-European countries to make crimes in Finland. They cannot loose in this game. If they do not get caught, they make a fortune. If they get caught, they might go to comfortable prison, and get paid more than is the minimum wage in their home country.

General view of people is that sentences are too short. This kind of legal-praxis does nothing protect people from criminals. Especially when crimes are directed to children. If kidnapping and raping child is rewarded with imprisonment, it is going to be very short time. I can remember a case a couple of years ago, when young man kidnapped eight years old girl and raped her twice. He got two years probation. So if he rapes again in next few years, he will be sentenced to two years in prison.

But thanks Jacklpe for bringing utopia into this conversation. I would like to hear the rest of it. Manfred already shared something about his.

Rick, you haven’t been talking much about how things should be. What is your utopia? If you had same country and same people, what would you change and what would you keep?

Writing this underdeveloped language is kind of slow, so I most likely don’t have time to write my utopia today, but I will in few days.

How does Finland feel about crossbows? Store your broad heads in fermenting cow shit. That'll pretty much cure anyone's problem who decides to come in your house... Worse than a bullet really...

In the uk we have a similar thing to finland but....if someone breaks in or annoys us enough then police dont matter.....our football is different yes but then so are our supporters.....chelsea for life. No guns just old fashioned fighting if needed.

This is how we do things.

Crossbows are unlicensed and can be found from most stores that sell hunting or fishing stuff. But it is unlegal to hunt with crossbows because EU. Change that I ever need to defend my home are minimum. I live in quiet neighbourhood of small town. I don't think those three thugs of this town have ever been in this area. Next summer I have to move to bigger city where are a lot of immigrants. But I'm going to awoid problems by staying away from multicultural areas.

Mad, the last time I got in a good old fashioned fistfight, the other guy brought a crowbar (I left my 12ga in the truck). In the end , I won, and the prize was a skull fracture, multiple cuts on the back of my head, and a concussion. The best part was not being able to open my mouth right for a month. An ex navy seal friend of my family used to preach "kill or be killed" to me. After that fight, his words were cemented in my brain. From that point, I decided that I don't fight anymore... And if I am forced to... Well ...

Man that kinda sucks...I do see your point, ive only ever needed to fight 3 times...the first was what got me into martial arts (I lost my wallet but they didnt leave it there!) The second was protecting my sister from a guy who's hands were getting too friendly (she text me for help when he got too close so I headed to the club) when I was there his hand was in a delicate area (cant say properly here) and she was scared stiff...he was a massive guy...would have probably used me to decorate the room...I used a large crylstal ashtray as a new face mask on the guy and thus saved my sister. After this I got to the whole (I dont fear any man anymore) so anyway...third time...a drunk walks up to me...its about 10pm...he smashes a bottle on a wall and pins me against the wall with the bottle aimed at my face...so what did I do???? I laughed at him...hysterically....he backed off...scared???? So I chased him...taunted him with my own insaniy...see, it does things to your mind when you have no real options...hence the name mad...my familly has an old-school rep...mess with us and fear us forever...I dont have to do anthing as the rep does that for me...I suppose that im lucky in a Way but my father is the one with the bullet scars....in a country where guns are illegal???? He wont tell me much but he was a police officer in south africa...and got the scars while he was there. He wouldnt think twice about a fight...my brother is the same....me? I need a darn good reason because if I get hurt or the other guy does then it better be for a good reason. Thats the whole point really isnt it? We all have to deal with idiots..I for one will never resort to weapons in a fight unless they are an improvsed item due to the other guy being big or maybe im outnumbered etc. Guns should be only really used I the theatre of war, but thats my opinion (dont hurt people unless there is no other option)

It would be nice Mad if guns were relegated only to war. The problem with gun laws is that the criminals don't follow them. I'm sure the UK has plenty of armed thugs walking around. That would surely explain why my brother and sister law enforcement officers in the UK are grudgingly being allowed to carry weapons. In my city if you call 911 and say, "There is a person in my house (insert whatever violent image you want, stabbing, shooting, burning, raping, castrating, etc..) me!" It will probably take an officer 2-4 minutes to arrive. Two to four minutes is an eternity if you lack the capacity to defend yourself. As Samuel Colt said, "God created man, but Colt made him equal." A firearm is a tool. To me it is the ability to hold the line until help arrives. In my house I have 200+ pounds of dog. If a thug makes it through my dogs, I'm going to ventilate him about 20 times with 5.56 from my AR-15. Don't worry, I still have plenty of rounds left if he brought friends. The firearm gives my wife the ability to defend my children against several grown men. It is a crappy world sometimes. I truly feel sorry for my Finnish brother that is handcuffed by his government against an opponent with no restraint. At any rate, I would say if you don't want a gun, then don't buy one. If you do buy one, train with it, respect it, and make sure your mindset is right before you bring it out.

TX LAWMAN wrote: It would be nice Mad if guns were relegated only to war. The problem with gun laws is that the criminals don't follow them. I'm sure the UK has plenty of armed thugs walking around. That would surely explain why my brother and sister law enforcement officers in the UK are grudgingly being allowed to carry weapons. In my city if you call 911 and say, "There is a person in my house (insert whatever violent image you want, stabbing, shooting, burning, raping, castrating, etc..) me!" It will probably take an officer 2-4 minutes to arrive. Two to four minutes is an eternity if you lack the capacity to defend yourself. As Samuel Colt said, "God created man, but Colt made him equal." A firearm is a tool. To me it is the ability to hold the line until help arrives. In my house I have 200+ pounds of dog. If a thug makes it through my dogs, I'm going to ventilate him about 20 times with 5.56 from my AR-15. Don't worry, I still have plenty of rounds left if he brought friends. The firearm gives my wife the ability to defend my children against several grown men. It is a crappy world sometimes. I truly feel sorry for my Finnish brother that is handcuffed by his government against an opponent with no restraint. At any rate, I would say if you don't want a gun, then don't buy one. If you do buy one, train with it, respect it, and make sure your mindset is right before you bring it out.

AMEN. So far I've kinda had the reputation as the local 2nd Amendment nut. I don't have massive gun collections, I only wear camo when I go hunting, and my NRA membership expired a long time ago. But, yet I've fought the 2nd Amendment battle of Dogfight for over a year now. My first big fight over it led to my departure from MOM. I think you'll find it better over there now though b/c A: you are a cop, and B: they are numb to it after dealing with me so long, and C: you are probably not as big of a jackass as me.

I just wonder how many thugs that you arrest wouldn't stab or shoot me if they were only more sensitive to my needs and rights as a human...

TX, I’ve read some sheriff Jim Wilson articles from Shooting Times and watched hours and hours tactical videos from Youtube. I’ve been training a lot with blanks, training drawing, shooting, holstering etc. I’ve been taking idpa courses and shooting ipsc. After all that, I don’t keep my guns loaded. I really hate idea of getting in trouble because wasting some dirt bag that I probably could easily beat the crap out without taking life. But while my guns are unloaded and in safe, I feel somehow restless about it. That’s one more reason not to vote any of those seven parties driving socialistic agenda.

Even if could carry a handgun, I probably would not do it on daily basis. At this point only full (service) size handguns are legal. Those things are quite uncomfortable concealed. If small size guns and carrying would be legal I would carry one. Not because I needed one, but because it would be my right to do so.

So, I’m first one to make a fool from myself by writing my Utopia. Please don’t hang me. This list of things is not perfect, but I just try to bring some things that came to mind in no particular order. Some of the things we already have. Some of them I wish we had. I don’t know if my country would work very well, but it doesn’t matter because it doesn’t exist… In my Utopia there is:

Constitutional court. Now Finland has constitutional law committee, which is doing crappy work. Same people that are making laws, sit on that committee. So committee is only rubber stamp of parliament.

Absolute ban for political appointment of officials (city leaders etc). I would like to have peoples chosen to officials because of their skills, not because of their membership on some party. This is huge barrier for real working democracy. This picture says it all. There are our police chief director with our minister of interior. Text under picture can be translated “How did this happen?”

Country must be run like business.

Nothing is too big to fall. No support from tax money for any industry, agriculture, bank or anything like that. This means also duty for all products which have tax money used in production. This would cause price of food to go up, but now people are paying same price on high taxes. Every business has to support itself. Otherwise it’s not business. This all with the exception of a small business start-up loan with low interest.

Civil rights. Pretty much the same you should have in US.

No Government spending for B.S. Our minister of culture made his ministry to pay 18000€ for artist who made video tape where he beheaded a cat and then ejaculated on it. Sound reasonable? Now that masterpiece is in our national archives. Development projects in poor countries are way too expensive compared to benefits derived from them to anyone. Mostly we are funding corruption and making situation worse. Funding those projects should be volunteer.

No humanitarian immigration.

Social security only for those who need it most. At the moment we have some third generation unemployed people, who make comfortable living with social security and really hate the idea of going to work. Ever. Those people who are unable to work must be taken care. This means disabled etc.

Free education. This means everyone has equal change to comfortable life and people are chosen to schools according to their capabilities.

Free healthcare for those, who cannot pay their own. Civilized nation takes care of its own.

Low taxes. State will have to adapt to low taxes. Now taxation is adopting to too expensive state. Low taxation means healthier economy and that leads to higher tax income to state.

Money reform. See the movie I posted a couple of pages ago.

Minimum bureaucracy. There must be easier way to do this.

Law should protect citizens, not criminals. Some laws should be rethought. For example our drug laws are not working. Never before have there been so much drugs on streets. Making crimes for drugs is not very cost efficient. We could just as well provide free drugs to drug addicts. That’s how our overall costs would be smaller and unlegal drug business would be unprofitable.

Nice post Onsekone. Most I agree with, some I will concede, and a little bit I don't agree with... But... That is a great example if common sense. Unfortunately, most of those problems are ones we also have. In the mean time, everyone is so worried about things that, although they matter in some respects, really aren't incredibly important.

Want some more? Freedom of religion should include freedom from multicultural and climate religions. If you are not a believer, you would not have to pay climate indulgence (carbon tax) and your share of taxes caused by humanitarian immigration.

I like your stand your ground law. That might be useful in some areas. I’ll include that to my Utopia.

Onsekone

The training you are doing is some of the best you can do. So much of shooting is pure muscle memory. Our range officer is ungodly fast and accurate. He shoots 10K+ rounds per year and it showed. We hosted an advanced firearms instructor course at our department. A 23 year old kid came out and smoked all of our instructors. He could not afford ammunition, so he practiced with dry firing. If you take that training serious, it will pay off! I appreciate hearing your perspective from Finland. Too many people are bemoaning the fall of America. It is nice to hear a perspective that reaffirms how blessed I was to be one of the 350 million Americans in a world of 7.5 billion. It really is like hitting the lottery. I have travelled to Norway, and it was superb. I imagine Finland is similar. You hit the lottery too! You could have been born to subsaharan Africa after all.

TX. You are absolutely right. The worst shooting I do is when I think about it too much. Muscle memory is key... And lots of practice. Who can afford ammo now though?

I'll sign up for that utopia onsekone. I would even leave open some *controlled* humanitarian immigration, if illegal immigration could be policed, enforced, and minimized. Help for those in need is very good. The rules must be clear and reasonable, and it must be policed against abuse. Penalties for abuse must be severe. A lot of tax money can go in the toilet when things like this are not watched carefully.

Basically it's about small and efficient governments. Because they hold the purse strings to lots of tax money, anything they pay for must be watched carefully. Transparency and all that.

Manfred

(Thanks to Colossae3.23, Manfred, Raptor, Onsekone and the others who have tried to make this discussion valuable. Unfortunately the powers that be come upon simillar "detractions" when trying to have real discussions. "Why can't congress, the house, the administration get anything done?!!!" )


One of the biggest troubles with the US health care system is that it can actually discourage preventative care for the many who fall through the cracks. Insurance companies usually support preventative care not because they care but because they realize the long term cost savings when people go to checkups or have various screening tests. Those without insurance often avoid the expense of wellness visits so problems go undiscovered until they are far more serious. The cost alone can be an obstacle but also having a health problem identified when you do not have insurance becomes a pre-existing condition for which you can later be denied coverage.

Having so many people without coverage is probably a greater drain on the economy than a single payer system would be. The most common first line of treatment for the uninsured is through the emergency room. While it is illegal for a hospital to turn away an emergency patient, these unpaid bills can be so burdensome that many hospitals have limited their available ER beds to reduce their exposure to these losses. There are many rural and distressed areas which no longer have emergency services available. This creates higher costs for emergency transportation as well as poorer outcomes due to delays in treatment. When a patient is unable to pay the inflated cost it does not just magically disappear. The hospital does not get compensated for it's costs and declares a loss. This is applied as tax deductions or credits which directly reduce what goes into the treasury. The costs are also differed to patients who can pay, mind you, not so much to those covered by insurance or Medicare but to those who are able to pay (or those who must pay above their deductibles).

Insurance companies typically offer better deals to groups who can bring in large numbers of clients. This favors businesses with more employees. This can put a lot of pressure on small business. Small businesses have supported the largest portion of the US consumer economy. This issue favors businesses that are able to take their profits off shore or out of state further decreasing tax revenue. I ran my own small business for 10 years. I employed and trained many workers but I could not provide competitive benefits packages and lost many valuable people to corporations who would provide benefits which were not possible for me. The sad thing is that most of the companies ended up restructuring and moving operations so the guys only ended up having those benefits for a couple of years anyway.

There are many reasons why a single payer health care system can be better than what we have, but this does not mean that we need to have a fully socialized system. A good example can be how the roads and highway systems work. (I ‘m using the California model here) The money comes from taxes. There is the department of transportation’s “Caltrans” (A whole different system for another conversation) which, for the most part, does small maintenance projects but also designs the larger systems and determines what needs to be done. Caltrans then hires private companies to perform most of the work. If there is still competitive choice in medical care you would avoid many of the poor service issues found in completely socialist healthcare systems.

No?

McFate, I'm hurt. I pretended to suck on 3 different guns, just to satisfy Wig's stereotype of me and you don't call my contribution valuable???? Man, what's a guy gotta do to be taken seriously around here?

Ok... We'll get to the common sense side of this. Look at post 1. Ok. Go back and look at it again....



You back? Good. Did you really expect a good breakthrough kumbaya moment to come from that beginning?

I can see that you put a lot of time, effort, and thought into your efforts here. You get an E for effort.


So, let's restart this out on the right foot. I'm gonna create a thread for you guys to hash out every issue in the world. It'll be up in a minute. Please come and contribute.

Thank you