Despite the baseless claims that the President is a socialist/ communist (they are different you know), Obamacare attempted to create a single payer system housed in the private sector. It is a modified rehash of Senator Dole's plan that was proposed as a counter to President Clinton's single payer vision.

I am not sure if it would work in terms of economics. Right now, we pay $40 for 1 Tylenol pill in a hospital in theory to pay for indigent hospital care. We pay hundreds of dollars for pharmaceuticals in theory to fund future research and development. There are thousands of ways health expenses can attack a family.

In Texas, we passed a law that put a cap on medical malpractice law suit damages several years ago. The theory was this would reduce the doctor's malpractice insurance premiums and that cost would be passed on to the consumer/ patient. As with most other "trickle down" policies, nothing ever "trickled down" and costs continued to rise.

I suffered an injury at work that required some extensive orthopedic surgery. It was hard to find a competent surgeon through worker's comp. Many surgeons refused to take the certification tests specifically so they would be ineligible and not have to mess with WC. The primary reason was that WC paid well below market for the services. My surgeon eventually took me because I was a police officer. I would have been up a creek without a paddle if I were an electric linesman.

My issue with a single payer system is that the government is extremely dysfunctional. Once a new entity is established, its primary purpose will become survival. Its secondary purpose will be establishing the internal pecking order. Who knows where patient care will actually fall. I believe the UK is now using private insurance for those that can afford it. They also have private clinics staffed by physicians that are not on the government system. This inequity would be the end result in the USA as well.

Further, the oxygen thieves and down trodden that currently use the ER as their primary care physician will continue. They are id driven people that will seek their immediate gratification at 3am on Tuesday morning versus waiting until their doctor's office opens at 9. Also, a good percentage of these folks are script chasers that shop ER's all over their area picking up pain killer scripts for nefarious purposes. So no, I really do not think a single payer system would have great effect here. Of course, 18 years in the sewer of humanity tends to make one a cynic. I liked your write up though.

Thanks for feedback. Since I’m not dictator even in my own Utopia, I’ll make some changes.

Controlled humanitarian immigration is possible from those cultures, which have already proven to integrate well. Some people start business just a few weeks after arriving. Some cannot learn language in 10 years and cannot provide anything else to society except surprise group sex in park, fast socialization of property on knife point and smell of burning cars.

My original idea from social security and public healthcare was that in functional market economy (that has not been contaminated by socialism) companies compete for labor. So there’s not much social security needed anyway. And one way for companies to compete is to provide free healthcare. McFate, since you brought up your worry about small business losing labor for this, we need to rethink it a bit. I’m kind of small business guy… Any suggestions, how TX and McFate could both accept the deal?

Maby we just try to buy TX in to this. Post of police Commissioner might do it...

TX LAWMAN wrote: I believe the UK is now using private insurance for those that can afford it. They also have private clinics staffed by physicians that are not on the government system.

Tex, this is absolutely correct. There is private health insurance in the UK, as well as private hospitals and clinics. Here's the main private system in the UK: www.bupa.co.uk/

Some of staff actually work for both the private system and the NHS (government system). If you remember, I mentioned a 13 month wait for a hernia op. Well the NHS were legally required to "sub-contract" my surgery to Bupa because they failed do it within their self-imposed timeline. So, the pre-surgery assessment was done by NHS, the surgery was done private (in a Bupa hospital), and the 2nd surgery to fix 1st one, done by NHS (in an NHS hospital). Funny thing is, that is was the same surgeon the whole time.

One thing that begs a question is: if the NHS is a good system, then why is there even a market for private insurance? Granted, its only the rich that can afford private. You see, just because these people pay for insurance doesn't exempt them from paying the same taxes as everyone else. So, in reality they are paying twice.

BTW, as a side note for all who are interested, the NHS isn't free, it just looks like it is. We pay massive amounts of tax over here to help pay for the NHS and other social services. The biggest hitters are the 20% sales tax (on goods and services) and the tax on fuel (petrol and diesel) that makes our price, at the pump, between 8-9 US dollars per gallon!

When I fill up my Renault 4x4, usually every 10-12 days, it cost between £70-£80 (in your money: between 115 and 130 US dollars), for about 20 US gallons. I should add that the vehicle, is a turbo diesel and averages between 34-40 MPG, so it's not a thirsty as most American 4x4's.

Hey collosae...you forgot the poll tax (household tax) mine is £1600 per year!!!! And that is just to be able to live in a house!!!!!

Yeah, after 10 years here I'm still not used to the names of all the taxes.
Is that the same as council tax? I'm guessing: no.

Yes it is council tax...it used to be called poll tax and has always been based on the area you live in based off your local council rates...when you look at it in detail we are taxed on our wages...I get 20 pecent taken from my wages...then we get taxed on where we live (council tax) mine is $2200 a year, then we get vat (value added tax) 17.5 percent on everything we buy...this includes the petrol or diesel for cars which is already taxed stupidly....basically its $2 per litre of fuel....so its $10 per gallon of fuel....then the cars we drive are taxed (road tax) this varies but most 4x4 are taxed at £400 per year so thats another $600. So thats just to live as per usual and without the bbc tv liscence fee....we live in a modern day but we are ruled by thieves...and where does all that road tax go??? Well I don't know if you are aware but we rebuilt the entire road network...yes its true....only one thing...they arent our roads....they are spains roads?????? I give up trying to understand why our roads have so many holes considering the huge amounts we pay the government in tax! - I feel your pain bro.

onsekone wrote: Even if could carry a handgun, I probably would not do it on daily basis. At this point only full (service) size handguns are legal. Those things are quite uncomfortable concealed. If small size guns and carrying would be legal I would carry one. Not because I needed one, but because it would be my right to do so.

Meant to quip on this. A gun is meant to be comforting not comfortable. I carry everywhere I go. I believe in muscle memory and familiarity, so I carry my duty gun which is a Sig Sauer P226 in .357sig. It is a big heavy beast, but if I need a gun and can't have my rifle, I'll take that Sig over some microcompact. I used to carry a 3" Springfield 1911. That gun would jam easy without a perfect grip. So I sold it and just went for reliability.

madtothebone1 wrote: Well I don't know if you are aware but we rebuilt the entire road network...yes its true....only one thing...they arent our roads....they are spains roads?????? I give up trying to understand why our roads have so many holes considering the huge amounts we pay the government in tax! - I feel your pain bro.

We rebuilt Spain's roads? Sounds like a lovely plan the European Union has cooked up... (they might be dumb, but they ain't stupid)
I'm guessing road quality takes second best to heathcare, housing and social care. That's probably where the money is going.

Colossae3.23 wrote:

madtothebone1 wrote: Well I don't know if you are aware but we rebuilt the entire road network...yes its true....only one thing...they arent our roads....they are spains roads?????? I give up trying to understand why our roads have so many holes considering the huge amounts we pay the government in tax! - I feel your pain bro.

We rebuilt Spain's roads? Sounds like a lovely plan the European Union has cooked up... (they might be dumb, but they ain't stupid)
I'm guessing road quality takes second best to heathcare, housing and social care. That's probably where the money is going.

A Spanish company owns several of our toll roads! We pay tolls to build roads and some Spanish company turns a profit because we choose to drive on them. Governor Goodhair thought it was a good deal.

TX LAWMAN wrote:

onsekone wrote: Even if could carry a handgun, I probably would not do it on daily basis. At this point only full (service) size handguns are legal. Those things are quite uncomfortable concealed. If small size guns and carrying would be legal I would carry one. Not because I needed one, but because it would be my right to do so.

Meant to quip on this. A gun is meant to be comforting not comfortable. I carry everywhere I go. I believe in muscle memory and familiarity, so I carry my duty gun which is a Sig Sauer P226 in .357sig. It is a big heavy beast, but if I need a gun and can't have my rifle, I'll take that Sig over some microcompact. I used to carry a 3" Springfield 1911. That gun would jam easy without a perfect grip. So I sold it and just went for reliability.

.357??? WHY?? IT'S NOT 45!!! Just kidding. I don't think 1911 is ever ment to be short. Of course I would carry full size gun in duty, but when concealed I just don't know how to carry without feeling like the gun is racking my flesh. Especially when I sit down. On the other hand it is hard to place full size gun so that it is not printing trough clotes. This is the holster I'm using for training and idpa. Except mine is made to S&W MP9 wich I'm using. I don't know if some other type of holster would feel better.

That S&W is a great firearm. Good choice! Try a holster like this: www.ebay.com/itm/DON-HUME-H715-ITW-HOLST...&hash=item565e3285b4

That should keep the printing down. Finland is cold so you can always wear a sweater or coat! I use a similar holster. I just hate the untucked shirts. Glad winter is hear so I can wear sweatshirts or sweaters.

These have a good reputation for concealing larger pistols...

www.crossbreedholsters.com

TX LAWMAN wrote: It would be nice Mad if guns were relegated only to war. The problem with gun laws is that the criminals don't follow them. I'm sure the UK has plenty of armed thugs walking around. That would surely explain why my brother and sister law enforcement officers in the UK are grudgingly being allowed to carry weapons. In my city if you call 911 and say, "There is a person in my house (insert whatever violent image you want, stabbing, shooting, burning, raping, castrating, etc..) me!" It will probably take an officer 2-4 minutes to arrive. Two to four minutes is an eternity if you lack the capacity to defend yourself. As Samuel Colt said, "God created man, but Colt made him equal." A firearm is a tool. To me it is the ability to hold the line until help arrives. In my house I have 200+ pounds of dog. If a thug makes it through my dogs, I'm going to ventilate him about 20 times with 5.56 from my AR-15. Don't worry, I still have plenty of rounds left if he brought friends. The firearm gives my wife the ability to defend my children against several grown men. It is a crappy world sometimes. I truly feel sorry for my Finnish brother that is handcuffed by his government against an opponent with no restraint. At any rate, I would say if you don't want a gun, then don't buy one. If you do buy one, train with it, respect it, and make sure your mindset is right before you bring it out.

Actually TX our police officers do not grudgingly carry guns. We have armed response units, sometime a whole two officers for one county, as often as not they cover more than one county. Dog units consist of one officer and one dog, usually covering two counties. A few officers carry tasers and some carry pepper spray, all of them carry a extending steel baton, that is usually the only weapon carried by most officers. And if they get the baton out they have to give a full report as to why.

My son [M] Dragon Hunter just ordered a .50 caliber hand gun on line.

Ok, so it is a 1840s style cap and ball muzzleoader pistol kit...
BTW, he's going to use the project for home school credit, Including history, chemistry, physics, PE and civics.

http://muzzle-loaders.com/pistols/traditions/traditions-kentucky-pistol-kit.php

Thanks Muck...another thing TX is that here they are called police but heres the odd bit....if a call is made of gang violence then what happens is they ask you if you are alone....and how many of the enemy there are...if you are outnumbered like 20 to 1 they turn up in a riot van...if its 1on 1 they turn up if they can be bothered and if a child steals from a supermarket or mall then boy oh boy...I saw 6 cars to arrest a 12 year old boy once! If the perps are travelers/gipsy familly then they will not attend because if they do then the police station will probably be burnt down that night. Yes our criminals carry knives and guns and some are just kids but how can our police defend us from it when all they have is a telescopic rod????? They now have a new weapon in their arsenal....the community support officer!!!!!!! Or if you wish to be technical ....the failed parking inspector......these are the ss of the police, they see a crime, they go in for an arrest....oh well good plan.....they have to radio for a "real" police officer to come and arrest the suspect....yes they are not allowed to make an arrest because technically they are a civilian in a police uniform! I have friends and familly in the force and they say its geeting worse...the gangs carry more weapons yet our defences are take away by the euro-union...a bunch of people who get paid extortionate wages to tell other countries (which im sure they've never been to) how to run things.

Thanks TX. That holster looks nice. Now I just have to find a dealer that will send it to Finland.

When I bought that mp9, it was good gun other that it tend to shoot a bit low. I had to hold it like it was mounted on vise to make it shoot even close to where I wanted. The trigger was a bit rough with huge overtravel. I decided to buy APEX M&P Duty/Carry kit on it. That was pain to get in Finland. When I finally got some dealer to send it, it came quite fast. One day I found 7” x 6” x 5” cardboard box stuffed on my mailbox. Inside it was a miniature plastic bag with a few small parts. Biggest part was new sear which was size of my little fingers nail. I tried different setups with kit and finally used only new sear and striker block with spring. Now I’m totally happy with gun. It’s trustable, good looking and quite accurate. So far I have shot it a lot and with different ammo but it has never skipped a beat. Not even with Russian hard primed ammo.

McFate, I don’t think our kids can make muzzle loaders in school, but yesterday when I was getting my daughter from school I saw boys playing with wooden rifles on schoolyard. Obviously they had made them in woodwork class. Maybe game hasn’t been lost yet.

My both brothers are police officers. They have all the gear and guns they ever wish. Though, if I could change something I would replace those crappy mp5’s with AR’s. The thing I’m a bit worried is that they cannot take guns home to practice on off duty time. And I doubt if they use much of their working hours on practicing.

When our dad passed away a couple of years ago, he left us (with other guns) S&W 22lr pistol. We wanted to our oldest brother to get that gun but for our surprise he didn’t get license to it. He is carrying guns in twelve hour ships, but cannot have 22lr pistol? I got the license because of my ipsc-license, but it really makes us think, is this a society that we want?


Edit. TX, one question. Magazine disconnect yes or no? Why? I removed that from my gun but kept all the parts. I was thinking the possible scenario, if I fumble the magazine but I really, really have to take a shot. Shooting without mag causes empty case to stuck between slide and barrel, but it's fast to clear after picking/replacing the magazine.

Cricket wrote:
This is the dumbest thread in DF history.

LOL

madtothebone1 wrote: They now have a new weapon in their arsenal....the community support officer!!!!!!! Or if you wish to be technical ....the failed parking inspector......these are the ss of the police, they see a crime, they go in for an arrest....oh well good plan.....they have to radio for a "real" police officer to come and arrest the suspect....yes they are not allowed to make an arrest because technically they are a civilian in a police uniform!

I think a valuable bit of hypocrisy you've missed out is that our new police officers are paid around £9000 a year less than our plastic police officers! (PCSO's)

Also, I must say I feel sorry for them to a degree, they are often first responders to incidents which they have no power over. For example, in London PCSO's are everywhere, if a terrorist was to go all Mumbai in a public area, they would be expected to intervene with absolutely no power or arsenal.

WELCOME TO BRITAIN 2013

Flyingmuck wrote: Dog units consist of one officer and one dog, usually covering two counties.

Well, we should be grateful for the few we have, our coalition government are considering taking the P.D's out of service!

There was a twitter campaign last week to show police our support for the dogs and handlers, here are a few pictures they tweeted.

Ronnie Biggs wrote:

Cricket wrote:
This is the dumbest thread in DF history.

LOL

Yes.

And i think moderators should delete this thread since the beginning.

We are all around the world playing to this game and share it with friends that we are happy to meet each time.

I am reading generalities about countries and this is not acceptable.

Titus

Hey! Tolerants™ appeared on the scene! Good, I kind of missed you. You can participate in the discussion if you like. Take your change to build instead of breaking.

Is freedom of speech something strange to you? That freedom includes freedom to not to read or listen. If there is something that you don’t like, feel free to speak your mind here or go to other threads. There must be group hug thread somewhere.

onsekone wrote: Hey! Tolerants™ appeared on the scene! Good, I kind of missed you. You can participate in the discussion if you like. Take your change to build instead of breaking.

Is freedom of speech something strange to you? That freedom includes freedom to not to read or listen. If there is something that you don’t like, feel free to speak your mind here or go to other threads. There must be group hug thread somewhere.

This is not strange to me.

I just think it is not the place in a (war) game with players from different politicals/geographic area.

I will not gagged anyone, i just think moderators should do it.

Not the place in a war game.

And this is my participation to the debat.

Not the place.

Yep, it's strange to him. Guess he must have missed the other hundred or so discussions just like this one over the last year.

Tolerants™ I love it!

Jacklpe wrote: Yep, it's strange to him. Guess he must have missed the other hundred or so discussions just like this one over the last year.

Do not you have another place on the web or else to talk about this ?

End. See you in the sky.

woospy wrote:

Jacklpe wrote: Yep, it's strange to him. Guess he must have missed the other hundred or so discussions just like this one over the last year.

Do not you have another place on the web or else to talk about this ?

End. See you in the sky.

Lol

woospy wrote:

onsekone wrote: Hey! Tolerants™ appeared on the scene! Good, I kind of missed you. You can participate in the discussion if you like. Take your change to build instead of breaking.

Is freedom of speech something strange to you? That freedom includes freedom to not to read or listen. If there is something that you don’t like, feel free to speak your mind here or go to other threads. There must be group hug thread somewhere.

This is not strange to me.

I just think it is not the place in a (war) game with players from different politicals/geographic area.

I will not gagged anyone, i just think moderators should do it.

Not the place in a war game.

Ok. Now we are getting somewhere. Are you worried about players from different areas talking their ideology? Why is that? I think we are all the time giving each other new ideas and having fun while doing so. It is a war game, yes. But in this game players from different countries are mixed randomly on different sides, your plane is repaired when you bomb, most of the time when you chute, you fall right next to empty tank and carriers are captured by landing on them. If carriers had squirrels with cannons shooting fruits, the game would be perfect.

Why we should not speak about difficult issues and things that matter to us? One of the most important experience for the humans is to feel that someone is interested and listening. And that experience is strengthen the more we go into difficulities and injustice that we experience in everyday life. So this thread should not be deleted.

Onesekone, Mad, OG, and Muck. It has been fascinating to me to learn more of the day to day stuff about where you guys live. I hate it that the minute that some folks don't like what they are reading, they cry for a complete thread delete. That's pretty pathetic. As far as the overall thread goes, it was started as a joke, so don't be surprised when a lot of replies follow suit. But, in the mean time, I appreciate the posts that you guys have shared.

@ Jack : see the smile on my face and guess if I am tolerant.

@ Onsekone :

I just hope you are true and that never we will have

Obama squadron
Bush squadron
Catholic squadron
Muslim squadron etc etc

Because this day that game will not be one, and we will lose friends past or future.

Delete this thread is not an act, just my opinion : we do not make friends with provocation and i think this is provocation. (Even if Dr Dave is certainly a very nice guy.)

Titus the Tolerant (tm) ..... that sings and if you agree Onsekone I would like to keep it !

woospy wrote:

Ronnie Biggs wrote:

Cricket wrote:
This is the dumbest thread in DF history.

LOL

Yes.

And i think moderators should delete this thread since the beginning.

We are all around the world playing to this game and share it with friends that we are happy to meet each time.

I am reading generalities about countries and this is not acceptable.

Titus

Then I ask you BOTH. What harm has this thread brought? People have exchanged ideals and opinions and without ANY Name Calling or Mad Rants it appears some people here enjoy talking about this stuff and others enjoy reading it.... So with that being said...




There are surly other threads you can piss and moan on, so PLEASE go check them out.. Thank you. Now keep walking.