Over the year and a half I have been here I have seen many threads created to recognize the great players of this game. Mainly the threads are created by players who admire certain players for excelling at one attribute or another but quickly dissolves into an argument over the validity of the thread in the first place and how to determine who is the best since that can mean so many things. Well after running a few scavenger hunts I was thinking about making another hunt but then I just thought maybe a better idea is a tournament. This way we can know who is the best once and for all, the winner! I would like everyone's input to ensure it's as fair as we can make it but my idea is making several categories and then with screen shot proof we can capture results and determine a winner.

The way I have thought it will run is this...It will be one week in total to give everyone a chance to find the time to participate. The events will be like total kills, head to head, twisting dogfighter, carrier bomber, hanger bomber, most kills in a game, wins, kills in tank, kills in chute, kills as running soldier, best kdr during that time and any others we can come up with.

During the week of the tournament for the events where it is possible you simply screen shot the event and count the number at the end of the week. The highest number for the week wins. The numbers we can get from the ranking system you do not have to screen shot. For events like head to head and twisting I was thinking that players who post they are in the tournament will be randomly paired off to battle each other and using the thread and world chat they will coordinate and get in game together and the winner will be reported, maybe best of 3 or 5 or whatever. The winner of the most events over all will be the overall dogfight champion. Winners of each event will be announced along with second and third place overall.

I don't mind managing and running it and helping coordinate the battles so long as players think this is a fun idea. Will it really tell us who is the best.. no but neither does the olympics or world series or whatever since not everyone is participating and other factors beyond control but it will be the closest we can get to that answer from here. What do you say?

Dont we already know who is the best?.....Isnt it based on total points?

doughens wrote: Dont we already know who is the best?.....Isnt it based on total points?

Points show the most 'experience' in my opinion since you get points for getting shot down in theory if you were here long enough you could accrue more points than anyone and be totally horrible. Also there was a large amount of time where points were frozen since there was a cap so the points totals aren't true. Points also don't show current ability. There is no way even if they are the best dogfight player to play the game starting now could get in the top 10 in under 6 months so to answer your question sorry no the points don't show the best.

Will you compete Swop?

well it does take ability to successfully land in chute.....thats the only points you get for getting shot down...plus as we discussed Zepplin ability is never included in all of urs "discussion on ability"....

so there is no way to accrue points and be "totally horrible".....

There are so many things that take ability that pilots dont include that ARE included in points....So I believe a tournament only determines "partial ability" in dogfight and is not all inclusive enough to truly determine full ability in terms of who is the best..So therefore the torunament should not be looked at as the "end all and be all" of dogfight ability....Since points DO include ALL aspects of Dogfight ability I believe it IS the way to determine who is good in Dogfight.....

We already know who is the best.....most Experience/points etc. are the best.

I can't do screen shots, but I am sure my flaming wreck of an aircraft will be in many of those posted here!

doughens wrote: well it does take ability to successfully land in chute.....thats the only points you get for getting shot down...plus as we discussed Zepplin ability is never included in all of urs "discussion on ability"....

so there is no way to accrue points and be "totally horrible".....

There are so many things that take ability that pilots dont include that ARE included in points....So I believe a tournament only determines "partial ability" in dogfight and is not all inclusive enough to truly determine full ability in terms of who is the best..So therefore the torunament should not be looked at as the "end all and be all" of dogfight ability....Since points DO include ALL aspects of Dogfight ability I believe it IS the way to determine who is good in Dogfight.....

We already know who is the best.....most Experience/points etc. are the best.

I see what both of you mean and your points are valid.
But seeing who can pull it out and achieve the highest results within a given timeframe would, in my mind, suggest that player is best. Take myself for example, I've been playing for 3 months and have a certain number of points. If you compare me to another player who has been at it for a year I should think they would have more points simply from their 9 month head start. Does that mean that player is better then myself? What if I beat them and some other 1 year players in a tournament? Would they still be considered better players than me simply because they have more points accumulated?
That's what tournaments are for aren't they? To put players of different levels of experience together under controlled conditions to see who is best.
I must agree with Whip.

doughens wrote: well it does take ability to successfully land in chute.....thats the only points you get for getting shot down...plus as we discussed Zepplin ability is never included in all of urs "discussion on ability"....

so there is no way to accrue points and be "totally horrible".....

EDIT: Sorry I went off when I saw what Swop posted and have heard before and Pork said what I wanted to say without being a jerk.

All I ask Swop is are you playing or not?

doughens wrote: well it does take ability to successfully land in chute.....thats the only points you get for getting shot down...plus as we discussed Zepplin ability is never included in all of urs "discussion on ability"....

so there is no way to accrue points and be "totally horrible".....

There are so many things that take ability that pilots dont include that ARE included in points....So I believe a tournament only determines "partial ability" in dogfight and is not all inclusive enough to truly determine full ability in terms of who is the best..So therefore the torunament should not be looked at as the "end all and be all" of dogfight ability....Since points DO include ALL aspects of Dogfight ability I believe it IS the way to determine who is good in Dogfight.....

We already know who is the best.....most Experience/points etc. are the best.

As I think about it you do make a very good point though maybe we should determine the overall winner as the one who makes the most points that week. we get the points at the start and the points at the end and we can use that. I would still like to see head to head competitions and twisting competitions. Also most kills, most hangers bombed, most carrier bombings and best in tank at the very least. So maybe my first plan with total points being a big portion of the judgement of the overall winner. How is that Swop?

Oh and anyone who thinks they may play, no obligation of course please post just so I know players would like to play.

Count me in

I think if you were to do this you should make it so that all players entered fly the same plane, i.e. the free introductory planes.. everyone has those. That way $$$ doesn't enter into the equation & a newer players with skills & the willingness to compete can do so on an equal footing.

I wonder how many of those that think they are or could be the 'best' would bail from the contest if that rule was suddenly introduced?

Ugh...not even close.

ZebraUp wrote: I think if you were to do this you should make it so that all players entered fly the same plane, i.e. the free introductory planes.. everyone has those. That way $$$ doesn't enter into the equation & a newer players with skills & the willingness to compete can do so on an equal footing.

I wonder how many of those that think they are or could be the 'best' would bail from the contest if that rule was suddenly introduced?

How about we all fly the best planes instead...same logic besides you are all above level 11 so buy the needed points and give zup the needed cash...its a win win.

[M] Mike cann wrote: Ugh...not even close.

What does that mean Mike? Who is that for?

SnidelyWhiplash wrote:

ZebraUp wrote: I think if you were to do this you should make it so that all players entered fly the same plane, i.e. the free introductory planes.. everyone has those. That way $$$ doesn't enter into the equation & a newer players with skills & the willingness to compete can do so on an equal footing.

I wonder how many of those that think they are or could be the 'best' would bail from the contest if that rule was suddenly introduced?

How about we all fly the best planes instead...same logic besides you are all above level 11 so buy the needed points and give zup the needed cash...its a win win.

Umm.. no. Those of us on Windows 8 & laptops can't buy points.. wish I could, but it can't be done.

I knew the moment I said about everyone should use noob planes as that would be both fair to all & challenging as well that it would be dismissed. I expected nothing else to be honest.

ZebraUp wrote:

SnidelyWhiplash wrote:

ZebraUp wrote: I think if you were to do this you should make it so that all players entered fly the same plane, i.e. the free introductory planes.. everyone has those. That way $$$ doesn't enter into the equation & a newer players with skills & the willingness to compete can do so on an equal footing.

I wonder how many of those that think they are or could be the 'best' would bail from the contest if that rule was suddenly introduced?

How about we all fly the best planes instead...same logic besides you are all above level 11 so buy the needed points and give zup the needed cash...its a win win.

Umm.. no. Those of us on Windows 8 & laptops can't buy points.. wish I could, but it can't be done.

I knew the moment I said about everyone should use noob planes as that would be both fair to all & challenging as well that it would be dismissed. I expected nothing else to be honest.

What does "I expected nothing else to be honest" mean?

Since 90% of the players that would be contenders (and I am being generous giving you the 10%) already have both top planes and are experienced with them. What you are asking is all of us to switch our usual planes to ones that we have not flown for more than a year and one of them possibly not at all (the airco was swapped out). Now you said your goal was an even playing field I gave you that. If you don't like it, there is no difference between that and your solution so at least try and see my side before you think I am shooting it down because I don't want to fly the lowest plane. I didn't know you can't buy points. In addition since we have so little experience in them is it really a tournament for the best pilot or the quickest to adapt to the changes the new plane provides. Since we are not isolated during the contest how do we fend off bomb dropping spawn killer types who are flying those planes. Someone who gets an unlucky draw of opponents will end up with a poorer result than there skill should provide.

Look at the events, head on is the same no matter the plane, so is bombing and chute and tank and pretty much all but twisting and I say lets agree on the plane used for the twisting match if you feel that strongly.

How do we compensate for windows players being able to go from to turn to full turn instantly? I'm willing to let that slide. Don't think I am close minded about this I gave it some thought when you suggested it and came up with my own solution. What do you think?

You asked: What does "I expected nothing else to be honest" mean?

I guess I should have phrased it: To be honest (or truthful or whatever) I expected nothing else. By that I meant that I knew ahead of time throwing that into the equation wouldn't happen or at the very least would be argued against.

But I also thought that the challenge of everyone flying noob planes in itself would be exciting for all. Remember how it was way back when you first started here?
And there are great pilot even newer than myself who either can't buy points like me or just don't have the funds to do so. AND I thought that making a truly level playing field was the hallmark of a fair contest?

ZebraUp wrote: You asked: What does "I expected nothing else to be honest" mean?

I guess I should have phrased it: To be honest (or truthful or whatever) I expected nothing else. By that I meant that I knew ahead of time throwing that into the equation wouldn't happen or at the very least would be argued against.

But I also thought that the challenge of everyone flying noob planes in itself would be exciting for all. Remember how it was way back when you first started here?
And there are great pilot even newer than myself who either can't buy points like me or just don't have the funds to do so. AND I thought that making a truly level playing field was the hallmark of a fair contest?

Ah the missing comma...I expected nothing else, to be honest...anyway I get what you meant now. Well we can have a noob plane challenge another time but that in my mind isn't the contest for the best. I explained in my prior post. Why not discuss the points I make instead of just trying to push through your view. What is the difference between all noob and all champ planes so long as they are the same? Besides my way prevents second account players from pretending to be a level 3 and winning.

Oh, man.

Once again, a game dynamic that will be so much better with customizable server rooms. (Custom games)
I wonder what the fabled "squad wars" will be. Will we be able to choose missions, sides, who may access? Team dogfights? Spectator viewing?

How about a perennial dogfight where you go in with only 5 respawns. Keep a post of the 10 largest kill steaks for the last 24 hours!

1/1 or 2/2 bomb-the-base would be an awesome test of all skills and strategies! Pair chasers and bombers. They could finally get along! Use 4 hangars for each side so it doesn't take forever. If you're feeling really cocky you could offer to play outnumbered. Make it the MORAF challenge Oh Max?


What's your plan Whip? If two pilots are to square off, does everyone else land and watch? The Orange markers are a pain if you are only after a single enemy. How do we handle things if someone comes into a game and does not want to cooperate and respect the match.

I like your "shows", "events", "tournaments" or whatever you call them. Timing has not been good for me but they are fun to watch.

Thanks.

Unless all participants are using the same plane against the same opponents over the same time ( as in time clock not time period) you'll not get a fair comparison.
Perhaps if there was a tournament invitation only, all moraf plus top 10 ranked players from rankings of levels 12 and up ( should total about 300 players) fight it out in a timed FFA say 30 min with 8 players per game, Only winner progresses, played at same time each week (eg Sunday 11am US) would be over in 5 weeks. The build up to the final would be great.
Could even run a book have some odds bet your play money.

Maybe my math is bad

im the best noob you can find

McFate wrote: Oh, man.

Once again, a game dynamic that will be so much better with customizable server rooms. (Custom games)
I wonder what the fabled "squad wars" will be. Will we be able to choose missions, sides, who may access? Team dogfights? Spectator viewing?

How about a perennial dogfight where you go in with only 5 respawns. Keep a post of the 10 largest kill steaks for the last 24 hours!

1/1 or 2/2 bomb-the-base would be an awesome test of all skills and strategies! Pair chasers and bombers. They could finally get along! Use 4 hangars for each side so it doesn't take forever. If you're feeling really cocky you could offer to play outnumbered. Make it the MORAF challenge Oh Max?


What's your plan Whip? If two pilots are to square off, does everyone else land and watch? The Orange markers are a pain if you are only after a single enemy. How do we handle things if someone comes into a game and does not want to cooperate and respect the match.

I like your "shows", "events", "tournaments" or whatever you call them. Timing has not been good for me but they are fun to watch.

Thanks.

My plan is this so far...We get the player list finalized and we randomly pair off players by time zone as much as possible. After the pairing they will be given a date and approximate time to fight. If the time doesn't work we can adjust it to get the 2 players to agree they can make it. They then go to world chat at that time and meet and choose a location. Enter the game and get on opposite teams, not always easy but happens often enough that it shouldn't be too bad. Then if we decide it's a best of 5 first one with screen shots of killing the other 3 times wins. They would have to fight the agreed upon way such as twisting or head on. If someone else in game kills them oh well it wouldn't count anyway.

I would love perfect servers for all sorts of games but it isn't what we have so I try and make the best of it. Will sometimes there be an advantage for one player over the other, most likely but there is in most competitions so what does it really matter?

If a lot of players compete maybe we could try like you say, spectators, where they can hold a game open and take up the remaining players so they don't interfere. For that time the group of 8 would be in one server and in one game and take turns battling. We can try it and see how we do.

Heff006 wrote: Unless all participants are using the same plane against the same opponents over the same time ( as in time clock not time period) you'll not get a fair comparison.
Perhaps if there was a tournament invitation only, all moraf plus top 10 ranked players from rankings of levels 12 and up ( should total about 300 players) fight it out in a timed FFA say 30 min with 8 players per game, Only winner progresses, played at same time each week (eg Sunday 11am US) would be over in 5 weeks. The build up to the final would be great.
Could even run a book have some odds bet your play money.

I absolutely agree that this will not be a completely fair comparison but I have found trying to get my own squad coordinated to show up at a particular date and time hard enough let alone what you propose. What this is basically is a tournament where for a week you can battle against your fellow dogfighters post your scores and see how you do. Will players who fly more during that week have better results for sure. But that's true for the top 100, and almost all other levels of progress here so why should this be any different.

Not interested in a see how many points you can get in a given time style tournament, I don't get to play a whole lot, so I wouldn't bother. I would, however, be interested in a 1 on 1, single-elimination, Dogfight tournament. First to 15 kills would move on to the next round. Have the other 6 pilots act as spectators, and have one giant bracketing system to accomodate for all participants, with spots drawn randomly. We'd start with 64 or however many pilots, and wind up with 1 through sheer dogfighting.

Cricket wrote: Not interested in a see how many points you can get in a given time style tournament, I don't get to play a whole lot, so I wouldn't bother. I would, however, be interested in a 1 on 1, single-elimination, Dogfight tournament. First to 15 kills would move on to the next round. Have the other 6 pilots act as spectators, and have one giant bracketing system to accomodate for all participants, with spots drawn randomly. We'd start with 64 or however many pilots, and wind up with 1 through sheer dogfighting.

Nice.. after all, the name of this game IS Dogfight!

You know I have to say I am disappointed. Thread after thread about players wanting to know who the best is and discussed at length and when a contest is posted only one person has said they will compete besides myself. Eight others post and a lot seem to complain about the format, or try and push through their own ideas never even addressing the problems those ideas cause. I am wondering if you aren't going to compete what do you care?

So far the players list is:

Snidely Whiplash
Davy Crockett (Thanks Davy!)
Big C ...he is in my squad so he already said he would compete.

If you want to compete post and say so and we can vote amongst the competitors what they feel is fair such as noob planes and timing and whatnot. At least then I only have to answer comments from players who are involved which in this case are the only ones who matter.

Without 20 players I say it's done and I won't put the time needed to make this happen. I think it will be a lot of fun but maybe that's just me, Davy and C.

Cricket wrote: Not interested in a see how many points you can get in a given time style tournament, I don't get to play a whole lot, so I wouldn't bother. I would, however, be interested in a 1 on 1, single-elimination, Dogfight tournament. First to 15 kills would move on to the next round. Have the other 6 pilots act as spectators, and have one giant bracketing system to accomodate for all participants, with spots drawn randomly. We'd start with 64 or however many pilots, and wind up with 1 through sheer dogfighting.

If you are playing we can make something like that for one event. You wouldn't win overall if that's all you did just that event since that doesn't exactly encompass all elements of this game since there would be no bombing or tanking etc. no matter what this game is called and the bias people have for what aspect they feel is important.

Whippy, Sorry I didnt get back with an answer of support for the changes you made....I want to say I REALLY like the changes.....This game is Dogfight but the game has WAY more things than just Dogfighting in terms of ability and with points and the specific aspects you address them to a point. As you know I truly believe total points determine ability in that it also includes the Zepplin points and all the other aspects of the game. However for a tournament I think you concept is great...We all know that in tournaments not always the best player wins....cause its a tournament,...I like the concept but I dont want it to give the false conclusion of "who is the best in Dogfight"....It would be better to call the winner the "Champion of the Dogfight Tournament"


I will be with you "in spirit" on the tournament....I wont be able to attend cause I'm an older guy who doesnt know how to upload screenshots....I want to be part of this but cant...

For those who believe FFA and/or first to 15 kills is the better pilot I say improve on bombing, improve on landing and capturing, improve on tanking, improve on killing the zepplin.....You have a lot to work on to be an overal great pilot or dogfight player.

Whip I know I'm far from the best but if you need any help running this thing let me know.