Science_Dude wrote: There is a flaw in the rules...

Get this..

If i enter a match.. Then kill a guy and leave..

I get k/d ratio 1/0.

Doesnt that make it infinity ?

I don't know that I would call it a flaw since all the events are cumulative so that would mean the following:

- As soon as the tournament starts you would enter a game shoot someone and leave.
- You could not play at all that week since if you died once there goes that precious kdr.
- You could not win any other events since you would lose most points and most wins
-you could not win head to head (see second bullet)

So yes you can win the event best kdr this way! The reason: it's not a flaw is because it's accurate! You see it as a flaw because (I assume) it is an infinite kdr since infinity doesn't really exist. Infinity is a more of a concept not a value (stuff like infinity + infinity does not equal 2 infinity) but I say whats wrong with that answer? Say someone goes 5-0 or 50-0 or 7000-0 (maybe max or someone with a strong lag shield) should that not win best kdr? I realize 7000-0 is near impossible but we have seen 45-0 by Furax so 50-0 should be possible however unlikely. Shouldn't that win best kdr? It is the best ratio isn't it?

Now here is the flaw in what you stated, you would have the lowest ratio of the 0 deaths set of values since 2-0 is greater and would win best kdr over 1-0. But you say the ratio is still infinte!? Well yes but this is a contest not a mathematical function. Isn't it logical that 2-0 should win best kdr over 1-0? It is in fact twice as difficult to achive...So the higher kills would obviously win best kdr over your 1-0. Although every value greater than 0 for deaths in fact a poorer ratio than any value and 0? With 1 death and 7000 kills your kdr would be a mere 7000 thats a tiny bit short of infinte value. 1 or 2 and all the way up to the maximum amount of kills, points and wins (none of which are infinte btw infinte btw ) you can collect in that week would be the order for all players with 0 deaths. So in summary you can win with 1-0 but there is no flaw here only in your plan. You chose to stay at 1-0 and someone with 2-0 would beat you. You only win one event and lose all the others and overall. Also i'm pretty sure people will be talking about the way you won that event so I don't know that it would be as precious as had you won playing normally.

So 1-0 is the best kill to death ratio over any other possible number and even 1 death but sacrifically ridiculous. You don't get to play the whole week. You certainly can't participate in the head to head and most wins or most points are impossible for you to win also. Well I say if you want it take it but my feeling is the celebration party will be small...possibly with the others who would like to discuss the illogical but logical fact that 2-0 is greater than 1-0 but only in real life.

SnidelyWhiplash wrote:

Science_Dude wrote: There is a flaw in the rules...

Get this..

If i enter a match.. Then kill a guy and leave..

I get k/d ratio 1/0.

Doesnt that make it infinity ?

I don't know that I would call it a flaw since all the events are cumulative so that would mean the following:

- As soon as the tournament starts you would enter a game shoot someone and leave.
- You could not play at all that week since if you died once there goes that precious kdr.
- You could not win any other events since you would lose most points and most wins
-you could not win head to head (see second bullet)

So yes you can win the event best kdr this way! The reason: it's not a flaw is because it's accurate! You see it as a flaw because (I assume) it is an infinite kdr since infinity doesn't really exist. Infinity is a more of a concept not a value (stuff like infinity + infinity does not equal 2 infinity) but I say whats wrong with that answer? Say someone goes 5-0 or 50-0 or 7000-0 (maybe max or someone with a strong lag shield) should that not win best kdr? I realize 7000-0 is near impossible but we have seen 45-0 by Furax so 50-0 should be possible however unlikely. Shouldn't that win best kdr? It is the best ratio isn't it?

Now here is the flaw in what you stated, you would have the lowest ratio of the 0 deaths set of values since 2-0 is greater and would win best kdr over 1-0. But you say the ratio is still infinte!? Well yes but this is a contest not a mathematical function. Isn't it logical that 2-0 should win best kdr over 1-0? It is in fact twice as difficult to achive...So the higher kills would obviously win best kdr over your 1-0. Although every value greater than 0 for deaths in fact a poorer ratio than any value and 0? With 1 death and 7000 kills your kdr would be a mere 7000 thats a tiny bit short of infinte value. 1 or 2 and all the way up to the maximum amount of kills, points and wins (none of which are infinte btw infinte btw ) you can collect in that week would be the order for all players with 0 deaths. So in summary you can win with 1-0 but there is no flaw here only in your plan. You chose to stay at 1-0 and someone with 2-0 would beat you. You only win one event and lose all the others and overall. Also i'm pretty sure people will be talking about the way you won that event so I don't know that it would be as precious as had you won playing normally.

So 1-0 is the best kill to death ratio over any other possible number and even 1 death but sacrifically ridiculous. You don't get to play the whole week. You certainly can't participate in the head to head and most wins or most points are impossible for you to win also. Well I say if you want it take it but my feeling is the celebration party will be small...possibly with the others who would like to discuss the illogical but logical fact that 2-0 is greater than 1-0 but only in real life.

It was a joke

Science_Dude wrote:

SnidelyWhiplash wrote:

Science_Dude wrote: There is a flaw in the rules...

Get this..

If i enter a match.. Then kill a guy and leave..

I get k/d ratio 1/0.

Doesnt that make it infinity ?

I don't know that I would call it a flaw since all the events are cumulative so that would mean the following:

- As soon as the tournament starts you would enter a game shoot someone and leave.
- You could not play at all that week since if you died once there goes that precious kdr.
- You could not win any other events since you would lose most points and most wins
-you could not win head to head (see second bullet)

So yes you can win the event best kdr this way! The reason: it's not a flaw is because it's accurate! You see it as a flaw because (I assume) it is an infinite kdr since infinity doesn't really exist. Infinity is a more of a concept not a value (stuff like infinity + infinity does not equal 2 infinity) but I say whats wrong with that answer? Say someone goes 5-0 or 50-0 or 7000-0 (maybe max or someone with a strong lag shield) should that not win best kdr? I realize 7000-0 is near impossible but we have seen 45-0 by Furax so 50-0 should be possible however unlikely. Shouldn't that win best kdr? It is the best ratio isn't it?

Now here is the flaw in what you stated, you would have the lowest ratio of the 0 deaths set of values since 2-0 is greater and would win best kdr over 1-0. But you say the ratio is still infinte!? Well yes but this is a contest not a mathematical function. Isn't it logical that 2-0 should win best kdr over 1-0? It is in fact twice as difficult to achive...So the higher kills would obviously win best kdr over your 1-0. Although every value greater than 0 for deaths in fact a poorer ratio than any value and 0? With 1 death and 7000 kills your kdr would be a mere 7000 thats a tiny bit short of infinte value. 1 or 2 and all the way up to the maximum amount of kills, points and wins (none of which are infinte btw infinte btw ) you can collect in that week would be the order for all players with 0 deaths. So in summary you can win with 1-0 but there is no flaw here only in your plan. You chose to stay at 1-0 and someone with 2-0 would beat you. You only win one event and lose all the others and overall. Also i'm pretty sure people will be talking about the way you won that event so I don't know that it would be as precious as had you won playing normally.

So 1-0 is the best kill to death ratio over any other possible number and even 1 death but sacrifically ridiculous. You don't get to play the whole week. You certainly can't participate in the head to head and most wins or most points are impossible for you to win also. Well I say if you want it take it but my feeling is the celebration party will be small...possibly with the others who would like to discuss the illogical but logical fact that 2-0 is greater than 1-0 but only in real life.

It was a joke

Well so was this of sorts as I am quite sure you were not looking for this but the mathie in me has to say hole at infinity doesn't exist here is all and I thought maybe you were actually unaware but I was going to type it out anyway

So the contestants so far are: (We only need 7 more!!)

.

Hey guys something occured to me about the rules today and i wanted to just throw this out there: in the head to head tie breaker, there's nothing that says whether or not engagement is permitted prior to the merge. I bring this up bc well, lets say hypothetically i have a miracle of a week and max and i have to face off. As he's a crack shot at long range, I'd hardly stand a chance of bagging him once prior to the merge before he killed me 11 times for the win. So i ask this: should we amend the rules so that both pilots on each pass hold their fire until the merge forcing a dogfight? I think it would give lower skilled pilots more even footing against someone like max who we all know is just as good in a turning fight as he is at sniping. And it would give the underdog at least a fighting chance of pulling off an upset. Considering the current setup, i dont think this would be a bad idea. I defer to you whip, since you're the one organizing this. Thanks guys

I'll give it a go.

[WS]HD wrote: Hey guys something occured to me about the rules today and i wanted to just throw this out there: in the head to head tie breaker, there's nothing that says whether or not engagement is permitted prior to the merge. I bring this up bc well, lets say hypothetically i have a miracle of a week and max and i have to face off. As he's a crack shot at long range, I'd hardly stand a chance of bagging him once prior to the merge before he killed me 11 times for the win. So i ask this: should we amend the rules so that both pilots on each pass hold their fire until the merge forcing a dogfight? I think it would give lower skilled pilots more even footing against someone like max who we all know is just as good in a turning fight as he is at sniping. And it would give the underdog at least a fighting chance of pulling off an upset. Considering the current setup, i dont think this would be a bad idea. I defer to you whip, since you're the one organizing this. Thanks guys

Thanks Dave and Heff I will add you to the list and what I was thinking is 5 second spawn rule otherwise I don't really care how you face off...if you don't want to shoot head to head you will have to make it close just like in the game. This is my opinion besides otherwise how would we know when we could shoot, there is no definable area to say is the go point. I was thinking 4 players park to make a large square sort of like 1 between north base and the east lake, one at where that little town was (What was the name again?), one between south base and west lake and the final one between east lake and south base but that seems like a hassle. I would rather less rules so more creative ways to win. If Max can mow down everyone before they can get close I think that should count just the same. Otherwise we are forcing him and other head on type fighters to play unlike they would normally.

Hmm.. Good point whip. Brb. I'm gonna head over to the noob server and pick up some human shields

We have 15 players! If 5 more do not sign up by tomorrow I will cancel it until more people are interested... Can people try and spread the word?

MacLaren pm'd me and said he's tentative and will post one way or the other on his lunch break tomorrow.

I dont know what im signing up for but im signing up as long as its not during work time.

Kptn

So that's 16 confirmed players...only 4 more. C'mon guys I put a lot of hours and work to make it fair and fun for all join...only players will generally get to watch the head to head battles live so why not join and have fun. As long as I have 20 players by tomorrow I will keep the admission open until Friday.

How is the apple update?

hey man thanks for helping me get here hope to see u in play

SnidelyWhiplash wrote: So that's 16 confirmed players...only 4 more. C'mon guys I put a lot of hours and work to make it fair and fun for all join...only players will generally get to watch the head to head battles live so why not join and have fun. As long as I have 20 players by tomorrow I will keep the admission open until Friday.

How is the apple update?

What apple update?

With great joy I announce that the DogFight Tournament is on! we have 18 confirmed and a at least 10 possible players so we can all finalize the details.

1. I was under the impression that there is a problem with the current apple update and was waiting until it came out to ensure that one device wasn't handicapped in some way.

2. If some players who do not want to compete but would like to help me plan and hold head to head matches please let me knwo.

3. SIGN UP CLOSES SUNDAY 26th at Midnight Eastern. If you are not on the list you will not be able to compete and then we can all safely assume you chickened out had other critical appointments.

I will have the updated players list, the trophies and finalized rules on Friday. In the meantime please talk to your squad and people you see and encourage them to compete.

Count me in!! represent 666th Wraith Squadron

VF10 Reaper 1 here signing up ~S~

may your souls nvr find my scythe

No chickening out by me.....just dont believe it proves anything...thats not chickening out...I care more about comparing ability across all dogfight platforms than just "head to head"/"plane to plane"

|111th| tSwopCaml wrote: No chickening out by me.....just dont believe it proves anything...thats not chickening out...I care more about comparing ability across all dogfight platforms than just "head to head"/"plane to plane"

That's like having a fishing competition be based on farthest cast and most worms hooked in 30 minutes. Catching game is just a teeny tiny aspect of fishing and doesn't prove much, right?

I'm in, Whip, sign me up. Sounds like a fun tournament.

Trey43 wrote: Count me in!! represent 666th Wraith Squadron

mwahaha Rollin 3 deep officially. Now where is wingnut?

Not really Cricket.....You know this game is WAY more than just "killing planes"....if we assume killing is catching.....then a better analogy is a fishing competition where only crappies are accepted as opposed to all of the other fish caught (for we bomb carriers, destroy zepplins, capture carriers, etc.)...Your analogy doesnt work to support what your concluding.

You kind proved my argument....the tournament being offered of "plane to plane" is just teeny tiny aspect of the ability of Dogfight...so therefore the tournament doesnt prove much

|111th| tSwopCaml wrote: No chickening out by me.....just dont believe it proves anything...thats not chickening out...I care more about comparing ability across all dogfight platforms than just "head to head"/"plane to plane"

joke
jōk/
noun
noun: joke; plural noun: jokes

1.
a thing that someone says to cause amusement or laughter, esp. a story with a funny punchline.
"he was in a mood to tell jokes"

Cricket wrote:

|111th| tSwopCaml wrote: No chickening out by me.....just dont believe it proves anything...thats not chickening out...I care more about comparing ability across all dogfight platforms than just "head to head"/"plane to plane"

That's like having a fishing competition be based on farthest cast and most worms hooked in 30 minutes. Catching game is just a teeny tiny aspect of fishing and doesn't prove much, right?

I'm in, Whip, sign me up. Sounds like a fun tournament.

Well seeing how length of cast doesn't really mean anything I would think it's more accuracy of casting...oh they have those...Well the speed of worm attaching I doubt makes much of a difference so how about ability to make good bait...uh oh they have contests for those too! Why do you two have to think one side is important while the other isn't?

It's a tournament that tests your skills in this game so therefore anything that collects points is important but the most important would be your ability to fight other planes and the points reflect that.

|111th| tSwopCaml wrote: No chickening out by me.....just dont believe it proves anything...thats not chickening out...I care more about comparing ability across all dogfight platforms than just "head to head"/"plane to plane"

It has both..you saw that right? Now before I spend all day talking this over you playing? If no wait until after it's over please. If yes go ahead...

Whip, I'm not out of pilot training yet, but wouldn't miss this challenge. I'm in... Please post dates and time, as soon as possible, so I can warm up the engine.

"...but the most important would be your ability to fight other planes and the points reflect that."

I dont agree with this....The most important thing is every type of kill in dogfight whether it be destroying hangars, destroying zep, etc.

I dont believe ones ability to fight other planes is the most important. Its VERY important but not THE most important.

Whip you might want to read my response that started "Not really Cricket"

BTW, Whip, I knew it was a joke.....I just happen to have responded in a specific way to "counter the joke"....so, yes Whip, I knew it was a joke...

You in or out Swop? Simple yeah or nay.

You didnt read earlier.....I'm out..for the reasons I have stated in agnosium.

Its better to give an answer and the full details and reasons why then just "yah or nay"..

The point is this the ability to fight other planes is not the most important ability in Dogfight for EVERY kill, destruction of hangar, destruction of zep, destruction of tanks and capturing are all equally important in Dogfight....

Ill join