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TOPIC: Kill Range to far

Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250071

  • [nlr] Cygnus X1
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Would it be possible to a limit on guns kill range. You taking on fire from a enemy you can hardly see. Getting shot down long before you merge. IMO gun kills should be no longer than 400 to 500 yards. Any thoughts about this?
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250076

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Yes!

Adding ballistic drop to the bullets would make long range shooting significantly more difficult as the distance increases...kind of like reality. :blink:

Zup was talking about this in a recent thread.

I think it's a great idea.

The loudest argument against it seems to be that it would be "unfair" to players who have spent a lot of time working on their long range shooting skills under the existing game physics.
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Last edit: by [NLR] McFate.

Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250088

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Makes sense, also bullets would loose velocity, eventually loosing penetrating power. - getting complicated though....

Incidentally, is there a limit on shooting range now?

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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250090

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There is some limit, not sure what it is. Notice you don't see tracer until you can see the plane

ut malleus omnia similis clavum

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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250092

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Especially the parachutists gun is rediculous.

He kills you at the first hit all across the map.

Guns were syncronized to have a fixed point/distance where they had the most effect.
In ww2 rule of thumb was to wait till the target was as big as a match stick.
There is a scene in 'the Red Baron' where he told his pilots from what distance to shoot.
It was rediculously close.

Wouldn't a limited range end those boring long range head on battles and stimulate the use of tactics?
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250097

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I've always wanted to change it but last time I suggested it people were loud about not doing it.

It's up to you, for me it's an easy change. My idea was to make them act like real bullets where they would drop after certain distance. Right now they are laser beams.
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250104

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[NLR] McFate wrote: Yes!

Adding ballistic drop to the bullets would make long range shooting significantly more difficult as the distance increases...kind of like reality. :blink:

Zup was talking about this in a recent thread.

I think it's a great idea.

The loudest argument against it seems to be that it would be "unfair" to players who have spent a lot of time working on their long range shooting skills under the existing game physics.


That's a good point McFate. I know how it felt when those of us who spent a lot of time working on their turn fighting skills had that temporarily taken away or reduced.

Personally I like the idea as well. I have always felt the distance head on shooting was wildly unrealistic. The added benefit will be the need to jockey for a advantageous shooting position prior to firing, which is more realistic. Maybe there is a happy medium here???








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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250121

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Zup make sure you get more input before making this major change.

I am one of those who specialize in head to head long range shooting. There are many of us.

I purchased an iPad just to play this game on. I made a significant investment based on how the game was played.

Those playing on computers seem to have a goodly advantage when it comes to dogfight chase encounters.

Reducing bullet range would give them a greater advantage. My opinion.

Yes, I agree that it would be more realistic and maybe a good move for the game in the long run. It would definitely be a game changer.

Tanks would regain some prominence.


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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250126

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I would also like to add that head-on shooting is sometimes the only way a newcomer/low-level pilot/player can cope with the veterans and aces short of buying new stuff/points which not all players immediately do.

I appreciate the added realism but let's give newcomers a fighting chance too...
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250128

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ballistics have a lot more than just bullet drop...its also weight of projectile,caliber,windage ...and a lot of other things...I say no more ty MEAN FOKKER
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250131

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Thing is, now with the team chat you can act as wingmen.

You'll need teamwork and tactics to keep that red off your back.
Formations of bombers and fighters that cover them.

But I bet the playing field is too small for all that.
But two fighters could defend a bomber.
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250132

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Mean is right.
They have a ballistic curve, spiralling through the air.
FI.... With an 9mm Uzi, you could theoretically hit something at 100
Meters, at 50 meters you would have to aim 10cm higher, at 150 meters a out 10 cm lower.

In short, with such a short barrel you're happy if you hit anything at all.
The pilots syncronised their guns to their preference and each specific mission.
Bet they couldn't hit anything they aimed for more than 300
Meters away.

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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250146

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I'm guessing that whoever is on a phone or playing on a small screen feels they are at a disadvantage with long range kills...if you can't hit dead on the way things are now, you won't hit from a distance if things change...I say leave it alone! Everyone has the same opportunity to master the art of long range killing. It takes time and experience to get good at it. Everyone wants more realism, isn't this a video game? Some stuff has to be left alone...

Nobody complains about Realism when you get shot down and re spawn over and over again...in real life most people I know have only died once...

I think with the changes that have been made lately, this game is pretty cool the way it is, thanks!






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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250149

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I like it the way it is, I think zup did a good job
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250159

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zuperman wrote: I've always wanted to change it but last time I suggested it people were loud about not doing it.

It's up to you, for me it's an easy change. My idea was to make them act like real bullets where they would drop after certain distance. Right now they are laser beams.


I am all for making changes to the current ballistics.. the bullets & machine guns we currently have would be better suited for a Star Destroyer rather than a WWI fighter plane. The ranges common dogfight kills were made in WWI were more in the 200-500 yard distance.. (with many closer & some other kills further away of course) and the ballistics of the rounds we currently fire are more like something fired from a futuristic Gauss rifle or rail gun with each round having virtually no ballistic drop because it's travelling at a percentage of light-speed lol!

The Maxims & Vickers & Spandau machine guns of WWI did not have that kind of range or accuracy. Actually, they couldn't be fired continuously either because of jams. The bullets back then weren't made to the quality of what's available these days.

I say YES! please make it more realistic zuperman!!
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Last edit: by ZebraUp.

Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250168

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Here is a game that we have all learned to love. In my opinion, now is not the time to change the ballistic characteristics of the bullets. As was said earlier, the newer players have slower, less manuverable planes, head on is the only chance they have. Yes, I have spent many hours tweaking my shooting style. I think I could learn to deal with whatever changes, but like an old pair of shoes, I am comfortable with the way it is.



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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250175

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Bullet drop what about tanks how many planes in ww1 were shot down by tanks or people in parachutesif you want total relism thers lots of factors leave it alone its taken long time to get it good dont want to go thru the last 30 days on df
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250190

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I vote more realistic ballistics!!!!!! Whoop whoop :woohoo:

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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250195

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How many of you have ever shot a modern belt fed machine gun? Talking about a few hundred meters max range is just ludicrous. I'm better than that offhand with a 5.56 mm carbine with iron sights. The target is bigger than a truck, for Christ sake's. The reason most WWI kills were at closer range is very few of the pilots lived long enough to learn how to shoot accurately at range, and if you are actually being shot at you tend to move, quickly, unlike the game where you can trade fire at distances with steely nerves and little repurcussion to be hit.

The Spandau had an effecive range of 2000 meters which is probably more than the range of the same gun in the game, as it is limited to radar range and that seems to be about 1400-1500 meters. That's not the maximim effective range, that's the practical area target range with accuracy. Even the balky Lewis gun in it's .303 caliber stated an effective range just inside 1000 yards, and a maximum effective range of over 3000 yards.

The sights on a machine gun are set like a rifle, i.e. they are not mounted such that the eye and axis of the bore are parallel at all, but intersect. The practical application is that the bullet fires upward as the bore is aiming slightly upward to what the eye sees as level, so a gun (machine guns are properly called guns) sighted at 300 yards fires high at 100 and 200, even at 300, and drops away for each 100 after that. The drop becomes incrementally more extreme as the range progresses. However, the range the weapon is sighted to can level the drop if the gun is used most often for distant targets. Even a flat trajectory 7.92×57mm Mauser (the Spandau round) ony has about 8 feet of drop at 500 yards (around 100 inches, depending on the load) when fired "flat". Give me tracers and I'll drop every round on the target the size of an aircraft at 1000 yards after a couple bursts to range the target.

I agree there should be bullet drop, and have always said so, bit to limit the range to 300-400 meters is ridiculous. The bullet drop would seperate the shooters from the guys that lean on the fire button and spray. That's why I want the guns to overheat as well, cancel out the spray and pray crowd.

If the ability to hit a aproaching target is taken away, then this game defaults to win 8 turn supremacy.
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Last edit: by Longrifle.

Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250196

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agreed

[M]Comet wrote: I'm guessing that whoever is on a phone or playing on a small screen feels they are at a disadvantage with long range kills...if you can't hit dead on the way things are now, you won't hit from a distance if things change...I say leave it alone! Everyone has the same opportunity to master the art of long range killing. It takes time and experience to get good at it. Everyone wants more realism, isn't this a video game? Some stuff has to be left alone...

Nobody complains about Realism when you get shot down and re spawn over and over again...in real life most people I know have only died once...

I think with the changes that have been made lately, this game is pretty cool the way it is, thanks!

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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250198

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There's a loads of things in the game thats not realistic, I say keep it as it is.
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250200

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its a video game ...u want realistics ballistics ...join the service ....thanks MEAN FOKKER
WANNA FIX SOMETHING TO MAKE IT REAL.....LAG IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE...BUT I DONT LIKE IT....SO THATS Y A QUIT BUTTON WAS DISCOVERED...LOL
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250205

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Longrifle wrote: ....Give me tracers and I'll drop every round on the target the size of an aircraft at 1000 yards after a couple bursts to range the target.

I agree there should be bullet drop, and have always said so, bit to limit the range to 300-400 meters is ridiculous. The bullet drop would seperate the shooters from the guys that lean on the fire button and spray. That's why I want the guns to overheat as well, cancel out the spray and pray crowd.


Amen.

BTW, I think the "Windows advantage" May be mostly due to the ease with which a pc player can do a wing-over more than any particularly better turning performance. Keep working on it you can catch them.

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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250216

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Yes Longrifle you are correct on the maximum effective range of the machine guns we're talking about.. BUT that's with it mounted on a sledge or tripod on the non-moving ground.. not in a constantly shifting yawing plane up in the sky.

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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250219

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Doggy Dix wrote:

zuperman wrote: I've always wanted to change it but last time I suggested it people were loud about not doing it.

It's up to you, for me it's an easy change. My idea was to make them act like real bullets where they would drop after certain distance. Right now they are laser beams.



I vote fore a change to more realistic ballistic :P
When you activate the team chat everything is going to change. Its gonna be more tactics and the chicken race don't be longer as effective as before it'sgonna be a completely new ballgame..Why don't you launch the ballistics at the same time...


Team chat is already activated. It was fully functional for everyone with 4.4.83 which means after the Apple update, everyone has it.
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250235

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[NLR] McFate wrote:

Longrifle wrote: ....Give me tracers and I'll drop every round on the target the size of an aircraft at 1000 yards after a couple bursts to range the target.

I agree there should be bullet drop, and have always said so, bit to limit the range to 300-400 meters is ridiculous. The bullet drop would seperate the shooters from the guys that lean on the fire button and spray. That's why I want the guns to overheat as well, cancel out the spray and pray crowd.


Amen.

BTW, I think the "Windows advantage" May be mostly due to the ease with which a pc player can do a wing-over more than any particularly better turning performance. Keep working on it you can catch them.


Completly off topic but, some you cant catch.

On topic. No reason to change the bullets and give them drop. Lets see how things work out with the current update the way it is for a while. ha ha
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250243

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ZebraUp wrote: Yes Longrifle you are correct on the maximum effective range of the machine guns we're talking about.. BUT that's with it mounted on a sledge or tripod on the non-moving ground.. not in a constantly shifting yawing plane up in the sky.


Agree there is some loss of accuracy when moving, but having fired off less stable moving paltforms at gunnery ranges, as targets that were also moving, it's not hard to lay them in there. The aircraft is actually stable when you want it to be , or it wouldn't be useful in strafing or similar ops.

Simply moving should not halve the half the effective range.
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Last edit: by Longrifle.

Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250248

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Well Longrifle it's true that OUR PLANES are remarkably stable flying through the air.. but real planes in WWI weren't. They bucked & pitched & yawed like a poorly maintained amusement park ride.. even on a clear & windless day lol! :lol:
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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250249

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Dump the radar before you change ballistics. Longrifle is right though. These rifle rounds coming out of a machine gun could easily have an effective range of 1500 to 2000 meters. Ballistics would just result in an aim point change.


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Kill Range to far 4 years 3 months ago #250250

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Taken from the Boelcke Dicta (via Wikipedia):

3. Open fire only at close range, and then only when the opponent is squarely in your sights.

A common rookie's urge was to start blasting away upon sighting his first enemy machine. Shots taken at ranges of 1000 m (3280 ft) stood little chance of hitting their mark. The rattle of machine gun fire would alert the intended target and gave them time to react.

The machine guns available for aircraft during the First World War were not highly accurate at longer ranges. Add to that the difficulty of aiming from a moving, bouncing gun platform at a fast moving target and it is a marvel that anyone ever hit anything. Boelcke preferred to fly to within 100 m (330 ft) or less before firing, to ensure hitting what he aimed at with his opening burst. Once the rattle of his guns was heard, the advantage of surprise was gone, so it was best to make that first shot most effective.

Another aspect of making each shot count was the limited supply of ammunition carried in World War I aircraft — usually only a few hundred rounds. This could amount to less than 60 seconds of sustained fire. Reloading in the air varied from dangerous to impossible. Spraying the sky with lead in hopes of hitting something, eventually, was not an option. Shots had to be chosen carefully. Early in the war, when a sense of chivalry still held sway, some men allowed their opponents to depart if they were out of ammunition or had jammed guns. Total war did not allow such courtesies to last for long.

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