I like it the way it is. It's still a challenge

Let me guess, you are the type that believes that "every" player should get a trophy. In my day the winner got a trophy, not every single player. The ones that cry, it's to hard, or I can't run as fast. Boo Hoo. Adapt, Learn, Overcome. Life is tough, get used to it. I can picture it, if you played Candy Cruch, you would restart every couple of days. Just to stay as a beginner, I have tried to keep learning, keep getting better. It's how life goes, keep pushing forward or you fall back. These are simple life lessons that your parents should have instilled in you. The carrot keeps moving, in the end if the game changes the leaderboard won't change much. The top players will adjust and kill. I have watched it happen over the years. The cream always rises to the top. Good luck.

[NLR] McFate wrote: Do you really think that the only reason people might want to change the game is to make it easier for themselves? Bah!

By reading all of the "keep it how it is" posts, those people are saying they don't want it to change because it's what they are used to. What? It won't be easy to get used to something new? You might not have as easy a time if things change? The one constant to DF is that it has been changing since it was first launched, sure some changes made rough spots and some updates didn't go smoothly...I'm guessing a big part of what is taking so long is that zup is trying to make it easier to make updates or changes. He said something to that effect when he was talking about the need to drop older platforms from the design for elite.

Get used to it. It will change. There is no way he can keep everyone happy and some of his statements have said; in effect, if you don't like it you don't need to stay, he is not beholden to the old players. How many "regular active players" do you think there are, 300? 400? 500? Compare that to how many new accounts come in each month. A new account with 0 kills, 0 deaths is ranked around what 300,000? From a business perspective what should he be focusing on, the few, the proud, those with the most bluster and whine, or should he be trying to turn some new sign ups into new players who will want to stick around?

Maybe having less kill range will change everything, maybe not. I always hope that the changes he makes will make strategy a more important part of the game. In my opinion, requiring more abstract thinking will improve the game over all. The harder it is to hit someone the more engagement there is, the more thinking is required. If you spend anytime looking up air combat maneuvering you quickly become aware of how little of it can be implemented in this game the way it is... don't care? You just want it to stay the way you're comfortable with? I'll bet that one of Zuperman's biggest headaches has been this forum. I wonder, if you compare how much revenue has come out of forum users to how much has come from non-forum users.... of course there is no way to accurately quantify that. I'm sure someone will try but since no one can accurately say what percentage of players even use the forum it's all a guess anyway.

Basically if you think the only reason to want to change the kill range is to make it easier for some... Bah! Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

The sky is blue...

Friends are blue enemy's are red when there's more red than blue it fills you with dread

[*M]VonHuLK wrote: Let me guess, you are the type that believes that "every" player should get a trophy. In my day the winner got a trophy, not every single player. The ones that cry, it's to hard, or I can't run as fast. Boo Hoo. Adapt, Learn, Overcome. Life is tough, get used to it. I can picture it, if you played Candy Cruch, you would restart every couple of days. Just to stay as a beginner, I have tried to keep learning, keep getting better. It's how life goes, keep pushing forward or you fall back. These are simple life lessons that your parents should have instilled in you. The carrot keeps moving, in the end if the game changes the leaderboard won't change much. The top players will adjust and kill. I have watched it happen over the years. The cream always rises to the top. Good luck.

That is one of the best posts in support of continuing to make changes.

I'm not proposing to make it as real as possible (I've always said that when given an even choice to go for realism) but during war, even
modern warfare ,the technology has always constantly changed the battlefield and tactics. The ability to adapt has always been one of the most important things to focus on.


As for the leader board...It is merely a reflection of who spends the most time here. It only coincides that high rank players typically have higher skill because it is normal for those who have dedicated the most time to something to be better (on average) than those with less experience. It would be a great change to have world rank to reflect skill and merit in stead of just total accumulated points, but just imagine the complaints then! I'm thinking it would be better to be able to use different filters to look up the world rank results...kind of like Blue Fighter is doing. The way it is those who "show up every day" are the ones who get "a trophy". The "cream" that rises to the top probably also (on average) have the longest "honey do" lists in the real world.

Um... So people here wants to sit in the couch and wrap themselves in blanket for comfort!! You are saying to keep the game like this and say us to learn playing like this?? Nah.... Ok say me why did the Americans, Indians and other countries broke the British rule"? I wonder what would have happened if everyone who got posts from the British would cry and say 'Why the heck do you want to change it?? I got the post and ask the money why should you care about yourself?? Learn to live as a peasant and farm what ever we ask to farm you!!' BS!! Learn to sacrifice to the comfortable couch and the blanket! Like the turnfighters did after there was an update of realism of speed w and w/o carrying bombs!!

And all those who wants to keep this game like this please gimme the reasons!! (as many as you want) Lets see if they are worthy!! Now if you guys say ' Why should I reason you moron??' Then I am very sorry to say you guys lost !!

Google Schmoogle...My plane is made in Canada from genuine Saskatchewan Seal Skin bindings eh! It has an ashtray and a beer holder. I might start continually dropping because my newly installed beer cooler is heavy and I'll never ever drop that eh!

First I'd like to ask you to list off your reasons on why you think it should change for me I like the game I could care less on how it changes that's up to zup to decide not me and if zup decides not to change it at all so be it I'll still fly #nuetral #switzerland

Wait a minute... Does this me I do NOT get my participation trophy?

MOA wrote: First I'd like to ask you to list off your reasons on why you think it should change for me I like the game I could care less on how it changes that's up to zup to decide not me and if zup decides not to change it at all so be it I'll still fly #nuetral #switzerland

Check this link moa dogfightplay.com/index.php/forum/aircraf...-range-to-far#250097
And I have plenty of reasons which I can tell you!! Just waiting for you guys reply bcz I asked for it first

[NLR] McFate wrote:

[*M]VonHuLK wrote: Let me guess, you are the type that believes that "every" player should get a trophy. In my day the winner got a trophy, not every single player. The ones that cry, it's to hard, or I can't run as fast. Boo Hoo. Adapt, Learn, Overcome. Life is tough, get used to it. I can picture it, if you played Candy Cruch, you would restart every couple of days. Just to stay as a beginner, I have tried to keep learning, keep getting better. It's how life goes, keep pushing forward or you fall back. These are simple life lessons that your parents should have instilled in you. The carrot keeps moving, in the end if the game changes the leaderboard won't change much. The top players will adjust and kill. I have watched it happen over the years. The cream always rises to the top. Good luck.

That is one of the best posts in support of continuing to make changes.

I'm not proposing to make it as real as possible (I've always said that when given an even choice to go for realism) but during war, even
modern warfare ,the technology has always constantly changed the battlefield and tactics. The ability to adapt has always been one of the most important things to focus on.


As for the leader board...It is merely a reflection of who spends the most time here. It only coincides that high rank players typically have higher skill because it is normal for those who have dedicated the most time to something to be better (on average) than those with less experience. It would be a great change to have world rank to reflect skill and merit in stead of just total accumulated points, but just imagine the complaints then! I'm thinking it would be better to be able to use different filters to look up the world rank results...kind of like Blue Fighter is doing. The way it is those who "show up every day" are the ones who get "a trophy". The "cream" that rises to the top probably also (on average) have the longest "honey do" lists in the real world.

Mc Fat dreaming of being on the winning podium never gets you there .. Working on your skills to become the best you can with the tools you are given are what makes you the best . Its only cry babys that ever want something changed , that clearly others are coping with very well , to allow them to be competitive .....harden up princesses and get with the program . If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen ...simple . If you dont like what we have here ...go find another game .

If you would like, you can go back and read "all" of my posts. Find one where I asked for the game to be changed, because I can't compete. I don't want a trophy for showing up, I don't need someone to pat me on the back because I did a good job. When the game ends, I just go to the next one. Everyone who has played this game (even for a short time) knows who I am and what I'm about. Straight shooter, turn fighter, game winner. Plain and simple. I have adjusted my game play. As the game is now sometimes I have the advantage sometimes I don't. A PC player can out turn me, so can a player on a phone. But do I come on here asking it to be changed? Nope. I find a way to push forward. Either way I fight, it's a war game. It will be a couple of weeks or months, some new player will start this same thread whining about the game being unfair. Someone smarter than me said "repeating the same actions and expecting different results, is the definition of stupidity" good day.

Odd I thought that was the definition of insanity either one works in this context

MOA wrote: Odd I thought that was the definition of insanity either one works in this context

That works too, like I said "someone smarter than me"

Husky Dog {WP} wrote: Wait a minute... Does this me I do NOT get my participation trophy?

If that's what you REALLY want, I can whip something up for you.

All the changes that you are asking for will be on dogfight 2 the bullet drop etc, and from what i understand pc players will be separate from tablet player's i guess you can't fly with your squadmates in that one. But please correct me if I'm wrong but i do recall zup saying so i also believe he said he wasn't going to be making any changes to the original dogfight anymore so no need to beat a dead horse over and over, just wait for the new one to come out when ever that is? but don't hold your breath.

[*M]Comet wrote: Google Schmoogle...My plane is made in Canada from genuine Saskatchewan Seal Skin bindings eh! It has an ashtray and a beer holder. I might start continually dropping because my newly installed beer cooler is heavy and I'll never ever drop that eh!

How do I get one of these? I have $$$ in this game and I'll pay BIG bucks.

I'd like to stay and argue reason with you all, but there are some reds waiting for me

MOA wrote: First I'd like to ask you to list off your reasons on why you think it should change for me I like the game I could care less on how it changes that's up to zup to decide not me and if zup decides not to change it at all so be it I'll still fly #nuetral #switzerland

Okay, it's not so much a list as it is a concept:


The biggest reason to decrease the kill range is to make it so flying skill and strategic planning are as important as aiming. Having time to plan the engagement before taking fire makes a lot of difference. Just look at the investment on enemy monitoring in the real world. I think this is the crux of the matter when it comes to so many of these discussions: is it a "Simple shooter" or "Air combat simulator". That's Zuperman's choice to make.


As the game stands it is a fairly basic "shooter". You aim and shoot, drop bombs, die, respawn, repeat. The planes are basically all the same with different tiers of performance based on how many upgrades you have. There are no different categories of planes. All of our planes are fighters (which can carry a bomb or two). Shouldn't there be bombers too? How about "light scouts" planes with lots of speed but low armament?

With different classes of planes there become many more ways to create a win. The bombers should be slow, more heavily armored and requiring more hits to kill (like the tanks). It should have a "cruise control" setting so the pilot can hit the camera view icon to switch between the pilot's seat and front and back turret guns. The fighters should engage to protect or destroy the bombers. The fighters would be playing similarly to a zep game only they would be protecting/attacking manned and gunned bombers. The bombers could have two turrets which need to be destroyed before the bomber is vulnerable. The fighting could be as furious as a zeppelin game! A serine sharp-shot bomber pilot could go head to head against other bombers and fire a turret from a stable platform at the looping fighters.

It could also be good to have more things at the base which need to be destroyed; fuel depot, ammo depot, anti aircraft guns? . The larger bombers could carry more bombs...hmm... how many would be good? How about they carry enough that it is possible to destroy the enemy base in three perfect bombing runs by one bomber. So say 12 bombs and 36 hits required to destroy a base? A fighter with 1 or 2 bombs could do some cleanup...

It would be best if we are able to select a different plane or AA guns with each respawn. That way you can choose whatever fits your need best at the moment. There could be a respawn delay timer for using different planes, the more capable the plane, the longer you have to wait. (ever check out "mini dogfight"?) The lowest level planes would be available for respawn the fastest. If the enemy shot you down close to your base, you might not have time to wait for your best plane to respawn. I can imagine teams of 5 per side, starting a game with 2 fighters and 3 bombers, all heading for the middle, the bombers square off head on while the fighters engage and try to take out the turrets. The bomber pilots would have to constantly choose between manning the turrets or firing head on.

An added feature could be observation balloons. Have 2 or 3 per side (additional things that need to be destroyed). Each balloon could provide "radar" so you can see incoming enemy from far off. Once the balloons are destroyed the radar goes dark. A "light-scout" plane could also attack balloons and though it would be very lightly armored it would be the fastest plane in the game. (2 hits to kill) It could also help improve radar range.




This is kind of stuff that is possible with this game. Having been here for 3 years and having done my Dogfight history beyond that, I know that Gretch has many visions for this game which have not yet been implemented. The game will change. Sometimes you may like it, sometimes you may post "Fix the damn game!". He is trying to make it easier to fix. He will also be making what he intends as improvements. Unfortunately he can't make an omelet without cracking some eggs. I hope it will grow to be something like what I have written above.



Translation: I'm asking to turn up the heat. Can you handle the new kitchen?

Now how about you guys say why the game shouldn't be changed?? Or now you want some ketchup to go with it??

Re. McFate's post.

All good ideas, unfortunately, Zup has said that DF is going to stay the way it is. All changes are going to be in Elite. So, to everybody mentioning changes, go ahead, but it's not going to happen in this version.

S99 wrote: Now how about you guys say why the game shouldn't be changed?? Or now you want some ketchup to go with it??

Did you read what TBuilt and Husky said?

E*A*G*L*E wrote:

S99 wrote: Now how about you guys say why the game shouldn't be changed?? Or now you want some ketchup to go with it??

Did you read what TBuilt and Husky said?

Dense, Thick skulled, Slow, not the sharpest tool in shed. Shall I continue?

S99 wrote: Now how about you guys say why the game shouldn't be changed?? Or now you want some ketchup to go with it??

Change everything, or leave it the same. You will still complain. That's what you're here for. No other reason.

[*M]VonHuLK wrote: Change everything, or leave it the same. You will still complain. That's what you're here for. No other reason.

You forgot, he also stirs the pot, and acts like he's the best. Remind you of another moron? Maybe with 21 in there?

E*A*G*L*E wrote:

[*M]VonHuLK wrote: Change everything, or leave it the same. You will still complain. That's what you're here for. No other reason.

You forgot, he also stirs the pot, and acts like he's the best. Remind you of another moron? Maybe with 21 in there?

Ummm what??? You guys behaving like I am robbing you up by asking to make the game more realistic!! And I act like I am the best?? Lol only if you think like that!! Bcz I know I am nowhere near it!! Lol if you call me like moron21 then you are likely to call all of us turnfighters that ain't you?? Why does it hurt you if I ask for a change?? Everyone is entitled of free will and free speech as long as it doesn't harms others interest!! I am just expressing mine!! If you have a problem with that then I don't care! Now all on zup to say!! I won't shut myself up just bcz you guys don't like me to express!! Idk what's wrong why do you guys fear Turnfights even with the b best plane in your infantry!! Ok lemme guess ... You guys just want easy and fast kills to pad up your stats??

S99 wrote: Now how about you guys say why the game shouldn't be changed?? Or now you want some ketchup to go with it??

Well little Hitler, here is a reason.

Simplicity of the game is quite appealing to most of the older players. Which also happen to make up the majority of players.

Is that enough ketchup for you boss?