As someone who ran a sort of police force (T.A.S.K.) and long standing member of this forum I will say while I understand both sides I'm with Ped. Maybe it could have been said a little better but who will be the judge of these player and decide they belong here? I drop on occasion and camp like Zebra on occasion...am I a cheap pilot looking to pad my stats? I don't think so.

There are many of these threads made in the past and they never help, just anger everyone. I think, just keep your list of names to yourself, and punish with bullets that works for all of us.

I didnt say its about me. Its just that you - coincidently? - argued against some points I have been defending here since way before your debut on this forum, few months ago.

I confess I didnt read all that book you wrote, my eyes was caught by yhat colored "shut up" words and by that sin-list. What made the rule-defecating picture I "love" to see around here...

You dont know me, but I dont mind being called ignorant, because I take it as a compliment, coming from someone like you.

And I will obey you, because its your thread and you are very skilled at do-this-dont-do-that, and this topic is already loaded by your own trash.

nice to see you, whip!
And good night, folks. Im done here.

Whiplash wrote: As someone who ran a sort of police force (T.A.S.K.) and long standing member of this forum I will say while I understand both sides I'm with Ped. Maybe it could have been said a little better but who will be the judge of these player and decide they belong here? I drop on occasion and camp like Zebra on occasion...am I a cheap pilot looking to pad my stats? I don't think so.

There are many of these threads made in the past and they never help, just anger everyone. I think, just keep your list of names to yourself, and punish with bullets that works for all of us.

Well spoken and appreciated.

It's like I have been saying all along here, each player should go about playing as they want. Comments will be made and names will be named in both good play and cheap play.

The only judge here is each player to judge for themselves. This thread is here to hear those opinions and even though I may be against this type of play it's not for me to force it upon anyone. Would I remove it from the game if I could? You bet I would.

We all make our decisions if life. How one goes about expressing themselves is also a decision we make.

You have spoken as a true gentleman and I can respect that.

Thank you!

TASK was an interesting experiment. You might want to check it out Gunzz. The vigilante thing can easily get out of hand. The judges and thugs will love it!

Just as a thought, what will you do if those "more honorable" than yourself start filling your list with sneakers and pilots who spawn kill while inbound on a bombing run?

ZebraUp wrote:

D93 Big Gunzzz wrote: So what are these cheap tactics? Here you go....

- camping and spawn killing (YES...it's the same thing...with the exception that you are being fired upon and have no choice but to defend yourself)

- dropping in a bombing game (you drop, I drop, then we all drop-now it's a dog fight game...and yes there is a time to drop that is ok such as reds are knocking at the door ready to bomb and you are trying hard as heck to protect your hangers or in such cases)


OWN UP TO PLAYING THIS WAY IF YOU DO.

I'll own up to playing this way!!

Personally I LOVE camping! And no, it's NOT the same thing as spawnkilling! It's camping.. it's keeping you busy over your airfield or carrier while my teammates are incoming. It's a totally different thing than spawnkilling. I let you up.. I let you drop.. I even let you start shooting at me or turn to come at me and THEN I KILL YOU! See? Totally different from spawnkilling.

As for dropping in a bombing game, well that's a choice.. I carry most times (unless the reds drop) but still it's a choice.. not a rule. And if newbs in newb planes wanna drop? Let 'em! And if a moraf like Bubi or Calle wanna drop & camp & spawnkill? Let 'em! As soon as I get in the air either I will kill them and/or then they'll leave the game.

Remember this most of all... it's just a game.

Thanks you. Some one who actually understands. Of course zebra understands it though lol. He is one of if not the best turn fighter in the game now. He stole my old tittle lol.

Mc fate and pedrhino have always had a good deal of wisdom in my opinion. I rarely can disagree with them.

As for big guns your right it is just a game and we should treat people well. Not only just in the game but all through out life. Spawnkilling, team killing, tank spawn killing are all bad things but camping is not one of them. Like zebra said some one who is truly camping is just a pilot keep you at your base by dogfighting you over your own base. You get time to get up drop your bombs and engage. I have been camped a lot in games were I was outnumbered. I managed to get up in the air with out much trouble at all and shoot them all down. Its just a thing of learning how to defend against it.

I am surprised you did not add sneaking to your list or that you excluded it. I remember yesterday actually you whining about how dishonorable it was for me to go around the map and bomb your guys base. The game was at a stale mate also to point that out. No one was getting any where. If anything Big gunzz team was winning. It was my first game since I had got back to the game so I was extremely rusty in the head on as well. I broke the stale mate by sneaking around the map bombing two of there hangers and engaging all the aircraft that were in the air around the base. I only shot down aircraft that were in the air and were capable of fighting me back. I don’t see what was unfair about it. Three of the pilots fighting me were high ranking players they had all dropped and were fighting me in a turn fight. The odds were against me but I still managed to shoot them down over and over while my team mates were flying in to drop a few bombs. They were not back at there base either they were just coming into view to come drop there bombs. What better way to safely get them in than by distracting the reds in a massive dogfight.

Durring the whole extravaganza big guns was crying about how everything I was doing was low and dishonorable. He then got his whole team to get in an join in on the whole thing. I think they were just sore losers. I to get the urge to complain and whine a little when things are not going my way in a battle. Some times the temptation comes through and I will kick my self really hard for doing even when its just some stupid little comment like let me off the runway when the germans come over the hill and get a direct shot at the planes on the runway trying to take off. But the things is if they did not do that I would have shot them down and killed them. I know I would have and that is why we get that little temptation to saying something stupid and cry a little. In the end my team bombed several hangers. I crashed into on of the reds planes by getting to close to his tail. I respawned flew down the middle with my two bombs shot down the reds along the way most likely because they were still stirred up and angry that I was able to get past them and break there whole defense. Its really hard to aim when you get angry. I my self can not hit anything when I am angry. I also doubt I could hit anything if I was typing our a whiny rant like a few of the reds were doing. That last run ended the game. A game that would have probably lasted a hour at the current rate it was going.

Its funny I was told I had no skill and that I was a cheap pilot. I was told that it was shameful I was MORAF. Yet I am not a bad aim. Most people that play with me will know that I do run up the middle carrying my bombs fighting head on and I am not bad at it. I usaly take down 3 to 5 aircraft in a head on unless I am fighting one of the super aces in the game. I generally can enter a turn fight with more than one red all alone and win because I fly a random enough patter than I seem to end up on some ones six. Due to it being the first game I had played in a little over a year I was not doing so hot in the head on fight and I had one other team mate who was good enough to at least hold the reds off from getting to the base and bombing it. I just took the opportunity to break there defense and end the game. There was nothing unfair about it. I was there long enough they should have noticed I had sneaked around. When I was just enough in range to see the hangers but not even bomb them I mentioned how many they had left. I gave them a clue that I was really dang close to there base. Fortunately for them two of them respawnd in time to see me. By they time they were up and shooting at me they had plenty of time to kill me. It was still going to be 20 to 30 seconds before I could get in to bomb the hangers when they engaged me. I did some fancy maneuvers to evade there shoots in the head on and with them on my tail. I managed to get in bomb two hangers turn around and kill both my pursers. And that is dishonorable.

I have had plenty of games in the past were I was outnumbered 1 to 7. Players would go up the middle and some of them would sneak. I was able to defend against that for long periods of times with out breaking my defense. All I had to do was keep track of who was in the game and how often I had seen them to know what they were doing. I could judge by the last time I had seen them as to when they would show up near my base. I would then kill them. Every now and then one would slip by but not often. In my opinion what they were doing even when I was outnumbered 1 to 7 was completely fair to me. When you are severely out numbered you for some reason or another get really good and your enemies get really bad because they only see a target once in a while. Must be that the one guy is getting an exciting fight and the others are just getting a boring flight to a base to get maybe one kill or no kill at all before getting killed. If those players would not have sneaked or dropped when going against me. I they would have just gone head on like they had been doing I may have been able to hold them off for a very very long time.

Treating people with respect and being kind is important. But when your losing and when some one uses a strategy like sneaking or camping and your not good at defending against it have some sports man ship. Learn how to counter it the next time. Not knowing how to defend your self from something does not make it unfair. No one hear is so entitled to go around and say a playing style is unfair and cheap because they can not defend them selves from it. Well I lied zuperman is the only one entitled enough to make that call. So fare the only thing he has said is dirty and cheap is spawnkilling. He has even tried multiple times to encode the game so it does not happen. He actually has encoded it into the game to prevent it. When your first spawn you have immunity until you leave the runway. You have immunity while sitting on the runway with your breaks on. You can throttle with your breaks on making you immune all the way to the moment you release the breaks. When at full throttle and with your breaks on all you have to do is release then breaks and your in the air and at top speed in less than a half of a second.

What we are all are entitled to is our own style of flight and the rules we make for our squadrons. We are not entitled to force our squadron rules onto anyone unless they are in our squadron. None of us are entitled to go and tell some one that there strategy unfair and cheap and that you are going to blacklist them so everyone treats them badly and targets them because they did something you think is unfair. If the game creator does not say its game ruining then its legal. Spawn killing and team killing have been pointed out to the creator as unfair and game ruining. Trash talking also is game ruining. If the creed is to treat people well and nice like human beings. If the creed is respect then the name calling and trash talking of people who are playing the game in a manner that is legal is a little bit hypocritical. Go ahead and put my name on your list of people who “play unfairly” I can take my own medicine by the gallon because I know how to defend against it. Go ahead and play me at my own game.

ZebraUp wrote:

D93 Big Gunzzz wrote: So what are these cheap tactics? Here you go....

- camping and spawn killing (YES...it's the same thing...with the exception that you are being fired upon and have no choice but to defend yourself)

- dropping in a bombing game (you drop, I drop, then we all drop-now it's a dog fight game...and yes there is a time to drop that is ok such as reds are knocking at the door ready to bomb and you are trying hard as heck to protect your hangers or in such cases)


OWN UP TO PLAYING THIS WAY IF YOU DO.

I'll own up to playing this way!!

Personally I LOVE camping! And no, it's NOT the same thing as spawnkilling! It's camping.. it's keeping you busy over your airfield or carrier while my teammates are incoming. It's a totally different thing than spawnkilling. I let you up.. I let you drop.. I even let you start shooting at me or turn to come at me and THEN I KILL YOU! See? Totally different from spawnkilling.

As for dropping in a bombing game, well that's a choice.. I carry most times (unless the reds drop) but still it's a choice.. not a rule. And if newbs in newb planes wanna drop? Let 'em! And if a moraf like Bubi or Calle wanna drop & camp & spawnkill? Let 'em! As soon as I get in the air either I will kill them and/or then they'll leave the game.

Remember this most of all... it's just a game.

Yes it is just a game, but once again it is real people behind the game that makes this different.

It's nice to see that you stand up for what you believe to be fair play in a respectful manner unlike Pedrinho. You are a well spoken gentleman who knows how to use his words wisely and show respect to others. I appreciate that.

It's more than ok that you and I may disagree on the camping/spawn killing topic.

I will give you this one example of what I consider cheap play and absolutely unnecessary.

In a game just last night. The enemy loses some teammates so I announce that I will sit aside until more reds come. They finally do and I join in once again. All goes well in this game and actually it was quite fun being that some DF friends were there where we shared some laughs along the way.

Some time later the exact opposite happens. All of my teammates leave, except for the one sitting in his tank the whole time...lol. One of the other players mention the odds and I state that it's fine with me. I actually enjoy a game like that every once in a while. After doing a decent job of holding them off one of them is now coming in bombless. Makes it to the hangers, where there is only one left, and obviously never bombs. Instead he decides to camp me. Even his own teammates commented about him dropping without me saying a word. I respect them for it.

Now you may say kill this camper. Well it wasn't easy when I had three other planes coming in at the same time.

That was it. I lost the game and could care less about that. For this player to camp under this circumstance is what I consider cheap play. No whining or crying about it on my part. Never have, never will. Do I have some choice words for this guy? Ohhh yeah I do.

So how to handle this. I know this guy's style. He drops every game. When I see him in one, as I have before, I drop as well, announce to all in the game why I am dropping, and will kill him over and over again until he leaves.

The thing that stinks about this is that his decision to drop has now taken a toll on the game as a whole. I drop, another player drops, and the game simply stinks from here on in. It's the same when any of these cheap tactics are used. It may be fun for those doing it, but it ruins the game for everyone else.

I know how great of a player you are. I can't imagine it being easy trying to kill your while you are camping. Actually I can't imagine it being easy ever killing you.

Camping/spawn killing...well to me it is the same difference.

I will choose to play and speak up for what I believe in and I am glad to see that you are man enough to do the same in a respectful manner.

"No whining or crying about it on my part. Never have, never will.”

Aint that a joke. Remember that game yesterday when you cried about me sneaking bombing and then camping when the game was even. I find it hard to believe you did not complain about what that guy did. But you are correct that what he did was dishonorable. He does have the right to do it though.

Anyway I am done commenting on these threads. It is extremely irritating. You can explain things to people over and over but you can’t understand it for them. That is me speaking for both sides. I will continue to fly in the game with respect honor for my team mates and opponents. I just hope they have the same intent and are more willing to learn how to defend against a turn fighter and sneaker rather than tell the player he has no honor for being different. If they cry well then I will just make there situation worse for them.

Agree to disagree guys...you can have this debate all night and well into the morning...

Continuing to go on about this makes about as much sense as putting a scope on a shotgun...

Ped and Gunzzz: I hope you guys can work out your differences: you're both good guys.

I'm off to practice tank camping...bye for now!

Why oh why did i read this thread!?

[NLR] McFate wrote: TASK was an interesting experiment. You might want to check it out Gunzz. The vigilante thing can easily get out of hand. The judges and thugs will love it!

Just as a thought, what will you do if those "more honorable" than yourself start filling your list with sneakers and pilots who spawn kill while inbound on a bombing run?

McFate

Lol...I don't know that I am an honorable person. Anyone with any honor would not consider themselves to be anyway. I will try to play fair and respect others. If that qualifies me to be honorable, so be it.

What you have mentioned above in my opinion is all fair play. Should anyone disagree with that well that is what the thread is for. It's to discuss things and to speak one's opinions. I am not always right and neither are others. Sometimes bringing things up in discussion helps to see the other's point of view and/or clear things up.

Sometimes there is something that is missed or not known what happens in a game. If accusations are brought up they have a place to sort them out.

[M]oon wrote: Why oh why did i read this thread!?

Reason to drink?

Perhaps?

Skydavis1 wrote:

ZebraUp wrote:

D93 Big Gunzzz wrote: So what are these cheap tactics? Here you go....

- camping and spawn killing (YES...it's the same thing...with the exception that you are being fired upon and have no choice but to defend yourself)

- dropping in a bombing game (you drop, I drop, then we all drop-now it's a dog fight game...and yes there is a time to drop that is ok such as reds are knocking at the door ready to bomb and you are trying hard as heck to protect your hangers or in such cases)


OWN UP TO PLAYING THIS WAY IF YOU DO.

I'll own up to playing this way!!

Personally I LOVE camping! And no, it's NOT the same thing as spawnkilling! It's camping.. it's keeping you busy over your airfield or carrier while my teammates are incoming. It's a totally different thing than spawnkilling. I let you up.. I let you drop.. I even let you start shooting at me or turn to come at me and THEN I KILL YOU! See? Totally different from spawnkilling.

As for dropping in a bombing game, well that's a choice.. I carry most times (unless the reds drop) but still it's a choice.. not a rule. And if newbs in newb planes wanna drop? Let 'em! And if a moraf like Bubi or Calle wanna drop & camp & spawnkill? Let 'em! As soon as I get in the air either I will kill them and/or then they'll leave the game.

Remember this most of all... it's just a game.

Thanks you. Some one who actually understands. Of course zebra understands it though lol. He is one of if not the best turn fighter in the game now. He stole my old tittle lol.

Mc fate and pedrhino have always had a good deal of wisdom in my opinion. I rarely can disagree with them.

As for big guns your right it is just a game and we should treat people well. Not only just in the game but all through out life. Spawnkilling, team killing, tank spawn killing are all bad things but camping is not one of them. Like zebra said some one who is truly camping is just a pilot keep you at your base by dogfighting you over your own base. You get time to get up drop your bombs and engage. I have been camped a lot in games were I was outnumbered. I managed to get up in the air with out much trouble at all and shoot them all down. Its just a thing of learning how to defend against it.

I am surprised you did not add sneaking to your list or that you excluded it. I remember yesterday actually you whining about how dishonorable it was for me to go around the map and bomb your guys base. The game was at a stale mate also to point that out. No one was getting any where. If anything Big gunzz team was winning. It was my first game since I had got back to the game so I was extremely rusty in the head on as well. I broke the stale mate by sneaking around the map bombing two of there hangers and engaging all the aircraft that were in the air around the base. I only shot down aircraft that were in the air and were capable of fighting me back. I don’t see what was unfair about it. Three of the pilots fighting me were high ranking players they had all dropped and were fighting me in a turn fight. The odds were against me but I still managed to shoot them down over and over while my team mates were flying in to drop a few bombs. They were not back at there base either they were just coming into view to come drop there bombs. What better way to safely get them in than by distracting the reds in a massive dogfight.

Durring the whole extravaganza big guns was crying about how everything I was doing was low and dishonorable. He then got his whole team to get in an join in on the whole thing. I think they were just sore losers. I to get the urge to complain and whine a little when things are not going my way in a battle. Some times the temptation comes through and I will kick my self really hard for doing even when its just some stupid little comment like let me off the runway when the germans come over the hill and get a direct shot at the planes on the runway trying to take off. But the things is if they did not do that I would have shot them down and killed them. I know I would have and that is why we get that little temptation to saying something stupid and cry a little. In the end my team bombed several hangers. I crashed into on of the reds planes by getting to close to his tail. I respawned flew down the middle with my two bombs shot down the reds along the way most likely because they were still stirred up and angry that I was able to get past them and break there whole defense. Its really hard to aim when you get angry. I my self can not hit anything when I am angry. I also doubt I could hit anything if I was typing our a whiny rant like a few of the reds were doing. That last run ended the game. A game that would have probably lasted a hour at the current rate it was going.

Its funny I was told I had no skill and that I was a cheap pilot. I was told that it was shameful I was MORAF. Yet I am not a bad aim. Most people that play with me will know that I do run up the middle carrying my bombs fighting head on and I am not bad at it. I usaly take down 3 to 5 aircraft in a head on unless I am fighting one of the super aces in the game. I generally can enter a turn fight with more than one red all alone and win because I fly a random enough patter than I seem to end up on some ones six. Due to it being the first game I had played in a little over a year I was not doing so hot in the head on fight and I had one other team mate who was good enough to at least hold the reds off from getting to the base and bombing it. I just took the opportunity to break there defense and end the game. There was nothing unfair about it. I was there long enough they should have noticed I had sneaked around. When I was just enough in range to see the hangers but not even bomb them I mentioned how many they had left. I gave them a clue that I was really dang close to there base. Fortunately for them two of them respawnd in time to see me. By they time they were up and shooting at me they had plenty of time to kill me. It was still going to be 20 to 30 seconds before I could get in to bomb the hangers when they engaged me. I did some fancy maneuvers to evade there shoots in the head on and with them on my tail. I managed to get in bomb two hangers turn around and kill both my pursers. And that is dishonorable.

I have had plenty of games in the past were I was outnumbered 1 to 7. Players would go up the middle and some of them would sneak. I was able to defend against that for long periods of times with out breaking my defense. All I had to do was keep track of who was in the game and how often I had seen them to know what they were doing. I could judge by the last time I had seen them as to when they would show up near my base. I would then kill them. Every now and then one would slip by but not often. In my opinion what they were doing even when I was outnumbered 1 to 7 was completely fair to me. When you are severely out numbered you for some reason or another get really good and your enemies get really bad because they only see a target once in a while. Must be that the one guy is getting an exciting fight and the others are just getting a boring flight to a base to get maybe one kill or no kill at all before getting killed. If those players would not have sneaked or dropped when going against me. I they would have just gone head on like they had been doing I may have been able to hold them off for a very very long time.

Treating people with respect and being kind is important. But when your losing and when some one uses a strategy like sneaking or camping and your not good at defending against it have some sports man ship. Learn how to counter it the next time. Not knowing how to defend your self from something does not make it unfair. No one hear is so entitled to go around and say a playing style is unfair and cheap because they can not defend them selves from it. Well I lied zuperman is the only one entitled enough to make that call. So fare the only thing he has said is dirty and cheap is spawnkilling. He has even tried multiple times to encode the game so it does not happen. He actually has encoded it into the game to prevent it. When your first spawn you have immunity until you leave the runway. You have immunity while sitting on the runway with your breaks on. You can throttle with your breaks on making you immune all the way to the moment you release the breaks. When at full throttle and with your breaks on all you have to do is release then breaks and your in the air and at top speed in less than a half of a second.

What we are all are entitled to is our own style of flight and the rules we make for our squadrons. We are not entitled to force our squadron rules onto anyone unless they are in our squadron. None of us are entitled to go and tell some one that there strategy unfair and cheap and that you are going to blacklist them so everyone treats them badly and targets them because they did something you think is unfair. If the game creator does not say its game ruining then its legal. Spawn killing and team killing have been pointed out to the creator as unfair and game ruining. Trash talking also is game ruining. If the creed is to treat people well and nice like human beings. If the creed is respect then the name calling and trash talking of people who are playing the game in a manner that is legal is a little bit hypocritical. Go ahead and put my name on your list of people who “play unfairly” I can take my own medicine by the gallon because I know how to defend against it. Go ahead and play me at my own game.

Skydavis1

You got the wrong guy and the wrong game altogether bro.

It wasn't me that you are referring to and I have no clue why you would think it was me. Maybe a similar name or maybe you just got mixed up.

You are right though. You and I did meet up in a game yesterday. It was a capture the flag game. Actually we both got along just fine and we were on different teams. You brought it up to me that you have not been around for some time and that you are rusty. I mentioned that you will get it back with some playing time. Our entire conversation throughout the whole game was quite pleasant.

LMAO...I have no clue who you are talking about in the game that you mention above. You may want to stop and rethink it.

I read what you stated here and for the most part I agree with it all, except of course wrongfully pointing me out. The one thing that I do disagree with is camping. As I mentioned in my original post there are times when even what I call cheap play is necessary. If I bomb I will try to leave without killing anyone. If I am fired upon or being chased you better believe I will camp there until I can leave or until they kill me. I also agree that using this tactic when your teammates are on appproach is acceptable and fair play.

I have learned to defend myself just fine. It took some of you guys to give me some pointers along the way and a lot of beat downs for me to learn. I too agree with what you say about playing outnumbered. It's when I am at my best. You have to be or else game's over.

You are right in saying that I am repeating myself here over and over again. I do not force any game play on anyone. Would I like to see things being played fairly? yes I would.

Look man. From what I saw of you yesterday in the flag game you seemed like a solid guy. Even the things that you say here I respect.

The one and only thing that you are way off base is that the player you are referring to was not me.

Hola to all
Wow and I thought I made long letters; I have seen this argument in forum many many many many times and never commented anything on it. You all have great points on it. I have been playing the game almost 2 years and I have seen a lot and have been call a lot. Oh! and I have done a lot toooooo! Will not enter on the merits of the style of flying or on what is right or wrong. But I will just comet on the things that will help you make the decision on whether to create this list. Gunzzzzzz you are a great player and so as all of the players that play the game. Some more than others; but still we are just that, players and friends. Maybe we do not see eye to eye on some game strategies or styles; and maybe we do not like some players. What we do have in common is that we love the game and that we play it to have fun. What the community needs is more positive things. My opinion is that if you start this list what will bring, is more arguments and more division to the DF community. Even if the intention seems to point out something that you believe it is wrong, it is not the way to approach it. If your intention is to create a debate or dialogs to try to make those players understand they are not playing fair, it will not work. We have proof of it is all over the forum; the insults will fly and it will all lose its purpose. We are not here to judge; we are here to have fun and a good time with a group of friends and a few dark villain aces; that by the way can make the game more interesting. One time a good friend ask me why do you have Bubi in your team he gives a bad reputation to your squadron; I told him I am not here to judge how a person plays; if that is his style of play and he has fun with it, is ok. I have spoken with the person behind the “Bubi” plane and he is a very nice person with some impressive values in life. So he plays the game different than most; oh well, that is his way of having fun. I do not feel is my place to judge him or any other player. Gunzzzz you are a good guy and my recommendation as a friend is to ‘let it go” and have FUN! Change the focus to a thread on tips for new players. You climbed the ropes in an impressive way; give them hope and show them how it can be done. You have always shown a will to help out new players, and we all can agree here that you would be a great mentor and we all can contribute with our own on tips, stories and experience to the new and not so new on ways to play better.

The point is to have fun even if your version of it is different so why take someone's fun away?

Skydavis1 wrote: "No whining or crying about it on my part. Never have, never will.”

Aint that a joke. Remember that game yesterday when you cried about me sneaking bombing and then camping when the game was even. I find it hard to believe you did not complain about what that guy did. But you are correct that what he did was dishonorable. He does have the right to do it though.

Anyway I am done commenting on these threads. It is extremely irritating. You can explain things to people over and over but you can’t understand it for them. That is me speaking for both sides. I will continue to fly in the game with respect honor for my team mates and opponents. I just hope they have the same intent and are more willing to learn how to defend against a turn fighter and sneaker rather than tell the player he has no honor for being different. If they cry well then I will just make there situation worse for them.

Skydavis1

Once again bro. You got the wrong guy and the wrong game. Look at my response to your other post.

I actually enjoy there being a sneaker in the game. You can simply ask Acegirl, who in my opinion is the best at it, how much I enjoy it being in the game. It is because of her that I learned to defend against it and learned to use it as well. Thanks Acegirl!

It is exactly as I stated before, "No whining or crying about it on my part. Never have, never will.”

Calling someone out on what I believe to be cheap play, such as using the tank glitch, is far from whining. I still don't get it why these players get so defensive about it and can only come up with the line of "stop whining".

To me it sounds like they are the whiners.

Acegirl for Gretchland President!

Acegirl wrote: Hola to all
Wow and I thought I made long letters; I have seen this argument in forum many many many many times and never commented anything on it. You all have great points on it. I have been playing the game almost 2 years and I have seen a lot and have been call a lot. Oh! and I have done a lot toooooo! Will not enter on the merits of the style of flying or on what is right or wrong. But I will just comet on the things that will help you make the decision on whether to create this list. Gunzzzzzz you are a great player and so as all of the players that play the game. Some more than others; but still we are just that, players and friends. Maybe we do not see eye to eye on some game strategies or styles; and maybe we do not like some players. What we do have in common is that we love the game and that we play it to have fun. What the community needs is more positive things. My opinion is that if you start this list what will bring, is more arguments and more division to the DF community. Even if the intention seems to point out something that you believe it is wrong, it is not the way to approach it. If your intention is to create a debate or dialogs to try to make those players understand they are not playing fair, it will not work. We have proof of it is all over the forum; the insults will fly and it will all lose its purpose. We are not here to judge; we are here to have fun and a good time with a group of friends and a few dark villain aces; that by the way can make the game more interesting. One time a good friend ask me why do you have Bubi in your team he gives a bad reputation to your squadron; I told him I am not here to judge how a person plays; if that is his style of play and he has fun with it, is ok. I have spoken with the person behind the “Bubi” plane and he is a very nice person with some impressive values in life. So he plays the game different than most; oh well, that is his way of having fun. I do not feel is my place to judge him or any other player. Gunzzzz you are a good guy and my recommendation as a friend is to ‘let it go” and have FUN! Change the focus to a thread on tips for new players. You climbed the ropes in an impressive way; give them hope and show them how it can be done. You have always shown a will to help out new players, and we all can agree here that you would be a great mentor and we all can contribute with our own on tips, stories and experience to the new and not so new on ways to play better.

Acegirl

It is always a pleasure to hear your perspective on things. You have always been kind to me and all. You open yourself up to make all feel welcome even when others don't.

I too have tried to be kind to Bubi. I will admit that I did bad mouth him at first when I met him in the skies. I do not agree with his way of playing but I now always try to respect him and always say hi to him in a game. Lol..chasing Bubi around is not any easy thing to do, but it does improve my game play.

Another player, well let's just say we didn't see eye to eye, have had more than our share of bad mouthing eachother. Funny thing is that now we respect eachother very much and even comment on eachother's game play. I actually enjoy his company now in a game.

What some here don't seem to get is that I am not trying to force anyone to play in a certain way. Comments will always be passed, good or bad. That's just the way it is.

This thread is here to get everyone's take on how they feel about what I had to say. No decision has been made to post any names on any thread. It is an idea that I would like to get feedback on.

Yes I haven't been around for so long to hear about these great debates over how one chooses to play this game. In the short time that I have been here I have come across enough to know what is right and wrong. Maybe others do not like or agree with what I have to say and that is fine by me. Just as I do not have to agree with them.

I hear enough trash talk from these players where I am comfortable enough to tell then to shut up. If they can't take it then they should change their ways. I for one will not. Well I hope not. It's funny to me how I can have many great games with so many different players without one negative word being thrown around. Then one of these players pop in and all heck breaks loose. Goes to show that their way of playing is cheap. Perfect example is using the tank glitch in a bomb the carrier game. There is no defense for that. Once that player chooses to glitch in this example the game is over. It's not a big deal that I may lose the game. What is a big deal is that a player will choose to use this tactic to win. I find that pathetic. I am sorry if others disagree with me.

"Let it go"? Good advice, but I don't know if I will. I can however treat all with respect as I would want from others as well. Even if we had it out. It's happened before and I won't say that it can't happen again.

I love it, this is fairly new so I have a really good chance of being mentioned our atleast in contention for the votes. I'm going to do my best please vote for me !!!!

Let's abstract a bit.

Spawnkilling = shooting a red over the runway, before he can manouver or return fire, just to pad your stats and you could have taken a run for it after bombing.
Camping (in a frowned upon way) = circling the enemy airfield, not just to keeping reds busy, but because you seen that you can outfly them, outrank them and there is no real reason but just to pad your stats.
Dropping = ignoring your orders to bomb, just to pad your stats by being more manouverable than others and you could have just evaded the reds and tried to reach your target.
Sneaking while outnumbering the enemy = trying to pad your stats while giving the reds no chance to intercept you, because they are busy fighting off the incoming bombers that are visible to them and no one is available to look for a "missing player" that might sneak.
Using glitches = thinking it is cool to use an obvious flaw in the game others haven't noticed yet, just to pad your stats.
Tank spawning = driving your tank upto the enemy take off zone to shoot reds before they can take off to pad your stats.
Tank camping = driving around the buildings of an enemy airfield in a tank to tank spawnkill? (You explain, Comet)

Who does this?

New players that don't realise they are not making friends like this, and have no faith in their skills to play another way.
Players that have been around a while and don't care to make friends, or have simply have had a bad day.

What to do if you don't like this?

Anticipate, and make friends if you want........and have fun after a bad, or not so bad day. (It's what this game is about.)

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Let's abstract a bit.

Spawnkilling = shooting a red over the runway, before he can manouver or return fire, just to pad your stats and you could have taken a run for it after bombing.
Camping (in a frowned upon way) = circling the enemy airfield, not just to keeping reds busy, but because you seen that you can outfly them, outrank them and there is no real reason but just to pad your stats.
Dropping = ignoring your orders to bomb, just to pad your stats by being more manouverable than others and you could have just evaded the reds and tried to reach your target.
Sneaking while outnumbering the enemy = trying to pad your stats while giving the reds no chance to intercept you, because they are busy fighting off the incoming bombers that are visible to them and no one is available to look for a "missing player" that might sneak.
Using glitches = thinking it is cool to use an obvious flaw in the game others haven't noticed yet, just to pad your stats.
Tank spawning = driving your tank upto the enemy take off zone to shoot reds before they can take off to pad your stats.
Tank camping = driving around the buildings of an enemy airfield in a tank to tank spawnkill? (You explain, Comet)

Who does this?

New players that don't realise they are not making friends like this, and have no faith in their skills to play another way.
Players that have been around a while and don't care to make friends, or have simply have had a bad day.

What to do if you don't like this?

Anticipate, and make friends if you want........and have fun after a bad, or not so bad day. (It's what this game is about.)

LMAO...RR you always know how to introduce humor into it all. That is what makes you one of the best here.

You descriptions are dead on. We all know this to be true. Whether or not it's for the sole purpose of padding their stats, which I do not believe to be true, it really is unacceptable.

I don't know how all of you players have dealt with this for so long. I was sick of it after being here for one month only.

I think it's because some great players in this game seem to defend these actions and intimidate some of the others. Maybe I am wrong.

No matter how it's looked at, it's still cheap play. Glad to see you get it.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Let's abstract a bit.


Camping (in a frowned upon way) = circling the enemy airfield, not just to keeping reds busy, but because you seen that you can outfly them, outrank them and there is no real reason but just to pad your stats.

Can't define CAMPING better than this!

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Let's abstract a bit.

Spawnkilling = shooting a red over the runway, before he can manouver or return fire, just to pad your stats

Not "just" to pad stats: spawnkilling is done to approach base to bomb, or to support incoming bombers. Every player do this. Its a game, and its a game about WAR.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Camping (in a frowned upon way) = circling the enemy airfield, not just to keeping reds busy, but because you seen that you can outfly them, outrank them and there is no real reason but just to pad your stats.

Not "just" to pad stats: camping is done to SUSTAIN air supremacy during bombers approach.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Dropping = ignoring your orders to bomb, just to pad your stats by being more manouverable than others and you could have just evaded the reds and tried to reach your target.

Yeah, droppers makes me mad. But after asking Bubi to stop dropping, couple years ago, and seeing saying to me "I play for my team, not for yours", I realized how DUMB and IDIOT I was asking the enemy to play the way I wanted. Since then, I begun to see things diferently, and since then I became a fan of Bubi. He is a good guy, and a good player, he just dont care about this do-this-do-that-play-fair BULLSHEEEEEEEEET.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Sneaking while outnumbering the enemy = trying to pad your stats while giving the reds no chance to intercept you, because they are busy fighting off the incoming bombers that are visible to them and no one is available to look for a "missing player" that might sneak.

It depends what "outnumbering" is. I already needed to sneak to win games against two tough reds (call it "outskilling"), being on the outnumbering team. And the opposite is valid too: I remember wining games with one or two teammates against four or five reds, just killing sneakers for some time until they quit doing it, and then my team attacked. Our main and most powerfull weapon is our brains - sad seeing so many people refusing to use it.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Using glitches = thinking it is cool to use an obvious flaw in the game others haven't noticed yet, just to pad your stats.

Agreed, 100% agreed. But even this can be circumvented, no reason to make drama about it, and point fingers.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Tank spawning = driving your tank upto the enemy take off zone to shoot reds before they can take off to pad your stats.

Disgusting at a first glance, I agree. But I remember being spawnkilling by planes way more than by tanks, and spawnkilling by plane is ok (under the "valid" circumstances I refered at the begining). So, what's the point? Yeah, it may be irritating, but again, no reason to call the player a low-life or a cheater. Dont want a tank near your base? Dont let players go that close, IF YOU CAN. Cant you? Well, accept the defeating, and go next game. No reason for baby-crying. It upsets me too, but even so I did it ONCE, some days ago. Know what? Not to "pad my stats", but for an imediate mission goal: it was only me and a rookie approaching red base to pick the flag, I was shot down near the flag, and saw the rookie coming. I shot down the poor red (Black Wizard, who is mad at me, and I dont blame him), to make sure my rookie teammate was able to pick the flag. He did it, and I stoped shooting. Then the red prefered to whine and report me to blacklist, and quit, instead of keep fighting. Big deal...

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Tank camping = driving around the buildings of an enemy airfield in a tank to tank spawnkill? (You explain, Comet)

Same comments about previous quote.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Who does this?
New players that don't realise they are not making friends like this, and have no faith in their skills to play another way.
Players that have been around a while and don't care to make friends, or have simply have had a bad day.

And/or players that realized the mission is on a stalemate and decided to use their brains to WIN.
Some will get mad? Probably yes. Some will complain? Hell yes. Does world change because of losing that game session? Well, that's a though question for some guys... Go figure.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: What to do if you don't like this?
Anticipate, and make friends if you want........and have fun after a bad, or not so bad day. (It's what this game is about.)

Agreed 100%. And I say a little more: just respect other players, and stop calling them cheaters, cuz 99% of them are not cheating, they are just playing DIFFERENTLY than you.

Just to put things clear: I hate being spawnkilled - by plane, by tank, by UFOs, doesnt matter. But I dont think spawnkillers are bad guys. And in some circumstances, I do it sometimes. I hate being killed by droppers during bomb missions. But I dont call them cheaters, and sometimes I nedd to drop for a reason or another. I hate being outnumbered and having to defend my base because of sneakers, but I dont hate the guys who do it, and I dont even think they are cheaters, nor low-life. They are just doing what the game asks them to do: WIN THE GAME. Am I outnumbered? Not their fault, and next game I am outnumbering reds, odds come and go. Its just a game. Again, no big deal.

Some one said that winning the game is one thing, disrespecting other players is another... Well, calling players who play tactics CHEATERS is the clearest way to disrespect other players.

=====

The main reason I posted that jokey thread (official cry-babies) is to call attention for people about this FACT:
Everybody has the rignt to like or dislike this or that playstyle (even those who believe some behaviors are not style, but cheating). The huge majority of the OLD MEMBERS of this forum don't like sneakers, droppers, campers and spawnkillers. But after so many years of debating, most of these players agreed that these behaviors are not bad behaviors, after all. I dont like Bubi's way to play, but I respect him and I am one of his fans on this forum. I even consider him one of the most valuable teammates and one of the most hard enemies ingame. He plays to win, he doesnt tell offensive words and he doesnt disrespect others - he doesnt tell others to shut up, he don't defecate rules, he don't judge others withount knowin them.

That's why I tell you, Gunzz: you are here just for some months, believe me: You dont know me enough to call me ignorant. And you will get lots of antipathy with this rule-defecating-shut-up style of yours.

====

Did I talk about writing books? lol

Ped...no need to bite my head off like a Playing Mantis......( oh....that's just after........well, whatever.)

Think we agree mostly....and I don't care how anyone plays.

It isn't spawnkilling if you do it for a tactical reason, like coming in with a bomb, assisting your incoming teammate etc.
That's why I said "...just to pad your stats."

Camping to maintain air superiority during bombers approach ís "keeping the reds busy".

Tank spawning. Not a chance to take off when he's behind the runway....Zup is clear on this one.

So.......

If it's done for a real tactical reason, or if everyone who knows you can clearly see you have had a bad day, but otherwise you are a good pal....and Zup never said you get banned for it.....you are free to play as you like. (Thát's as I see it.)

But tank camping...
Wasn't that a great glitch when we could hide with a tank inside the one side textured buildings to spawnkill the reds?

Who needs friends with a glitch like thát?

A

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Let's abstract a bit.

Spawnkilling = shooting a red over the runway, before he can manouver or return fire, just to pad your stats and you could have taken a run for it after bombing.
Camping (in a frowned upon way) = circling the enemy airfield, not just to keeping reds busy, but because you seen that you can outfly them, outrank them and there is no real reason but just to pad your stats.
Dropping = ignoring your orders to bomb, just to pad your stats by being more manouverable than others and you could have just evaded the reds and tried to reach your target.
Sneaking while outnumbering the enemy = trying to pad your stats while giving the reds no chance to intercept you, because they are busy fighting off the incoming bombers that are visible to them and no one is available to look for a "missing player" that might sneak.
Using glitches = thinking it is cool to use an obvious flaw in the game others haven't noticed yet, just to pad your stats.
Tank spawning = driving your tank upto the enemy take off zone to shoot reds before they can take off to pad your stats.
Tank camping = driving around the buildings of an enemy airfield in a tank to tank spawnkill? (You explain, Comet)

Who does this?

New players that don't realise they are not making friends like this, and have no faith in their skills to play another way.
Players that have been around a while and don't care to make friends, or have simply have had a bad day.

What to do if you don't like this?

Anticipate, and make friends if you want........and have fun after a bad, or not so bad day. (It's what this game is about.)

So you want an explanation of tank camping? Ok here goes...

Awhile ago, shortly after this tank glitch came into a play, there was a guy I kept shooting down in a game and he would tank near the base...we kept shooting the tank as well fairly quickly so he was never able to tank the hangars...

He claimed that he wasn't ever intending to blow anything up, but he was using the glitch merely to distract us...

I laughed...I thought it was the most rediculous thing I'd ever heard... So I told him how innovative he was by being the first "tank camper" in Dogfight...

Some of the reasons you hear for why people do things are downright funny...

Glitch abusers are another story.
By the way, is geting tanks near red base during capture the flag missions a glitch? For what I know, on these missions tank spawning at red base is allowed. Correct me if I am wrong...

I dont like when a player abuses tank glitch. But, again, its not reason for writing books, for cry-babeing, and for calling these players low-life and cheaters. Just kill the tank, period.

Its just a game.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: If it's done for a real tactical reason, or if everyone who knows you can clearly see you have had a bad day, but otherwise you are a good pal....and Zup never said you get banned for it.....you are free to play as you like. (Thát's as I see it.)

I tell you: the circumstance I was at the time I did tankspawnkill was a very specific one. A rare combination of variables: there was only me and one red, I was about to pick his flag, then he shot me down. I took tank (still supposing it is not a glitch on flag missions!), and instead of picking the flag with my tank (what is the dumbest thing to do, given the low speed and high vulnerability of the tank), I saw a blue coming, and I shot red plane down - in the air. When he spawned, I noticed that my teammate was a rookie, slow plane, easy prey. So, I decided to nail the poor red on the runway until my teammate pick the flag. He did it, I stoped shooting. But red bailed, instead of fighting. The rest is history, and probably you guys will see the red's version of it on the blacklist thread.

As you see, its a scenario that is unlikely to take place again - but IF it does, rest asured I will do the same - I can handle one or two more complaints.

Hey Ped you really do need to look at that kid in your arms more ..you have too much time in DF ...Gunzz is very right in what he says and you have points too . Although I will not see it the way you ped do . So lets get on with it and behave like you do in public and we can all see if douche bag or honnourable person . Remember all things you do in life are a reflection of you as you choose to be . If you choose to be a back stabber so be it . If you choose to treat people with honour so be it . I spent much of my life as a 1% Biker with recieving an hounarable dicharge as I did to others as I expected to be done to me . I can see by a lot of what poeple post that they dont have what it takes to be accepted into a brotherhood . I see by their actions in this game that they dont care . So be it . I abide by the rules of Misfits because they have club values and I accept them with no question . I have many squads that also I have much respect for as I am given common respect by those very clubs . It reminds me of my 1% days exept that If I could I would give a few of you out there a swift smack in the head for being downright disrespectful to your fellow members . So I guess I am stuck with accepting that there are keyboard heros out there that know without their addresses I cant do much . But if you have a gripe with me and Believe me I do have the money to come knocking on your door please leave your home address and if it checks out I will come knocking . But hey this is a game after all . MFFM .

Dont worry about my kid. I spend more time with her than you can imagine. Im on vacations, and she at school. I am just spending some free time here.

And about being a backstabber, wow, take it easy. Its a game. For those who play chess, there is a thing called zhugzwang (I dont know how to spell it), which is a nasty thing. A beautiful thing also. Its a position where you put the opponent on such a situation that every move he does makes it lose the game (its not check, nor checkmate). It's like "backstabing". Would you call chess players low-life backstabbers because of that? Hell no, because its a game.
Would you call a boxer an agressor? Would you call those who play GTA thieves or drugdealers?

Come one!!!! Dont bring this "Act here like you act in real life", cuz its just a game - and people need to understand that one thing has nothing to do with another. Believing it is plain dumb.

And about my address, PM me and I will give it to you. Do you like coffee? Hope so, for I dont have beer anymore.

====

Edit: If I act here like I do in public (real life), I wouldn't even enter a war-plane or a tank. I am COMPLETELY AGAINST violence, war an alikes. I am RADICALY AGAINST weapons on civilian hands.

[*M] CC RIDER wrote: Hey Ped you really do need to look at that kid in your arms more ..you have too much time in DF ...Gunzz is very right in what he says and you have points too . Although I will not see it the way you ped do . So lets get on with it and behave like you do in public and we can all see if douche bag or honnourable person . Remember all things you do in life are a reflection of you as you choose to be . If you choose to be a back stabber so be it . If you choose to treat people with honour so be it . I spent much of my life as a 1% Biker with recieving an hounarable dicharge as I did to others as I expected to be done to me . I can see by a lot of what poeple post that they dont have what it takes to be accepted into a brotherhood . I see by their actions in this game that they dont care . So be it . I abide by the rules of Misfits because they have club values and I accept them with no question . I have many squads that also I have much respect for as I am given common respect by those very clubs . It reminds me of my 1% days exept that If I could I would give a few of you out there a swift smack in the head for being downright disrespectful to your fellow members . So I guess I am stuck with accepting that there are keyboard heros out there that know without their addresses I cant do much . But if you have a gripe with me and Believe me I do have the money to come knocking on your door please leave your home address and if it checks out I will come knocking . But hey this is a game after all . MFFM .

How about this... I call you names and you fly me to where you are? I'd much rather a vacation and I'd love to hang with you man...err I mean you big jerk...so there! Take that! (Doom wants to come too)