I dont think you understand the role of the escort like ziza said.

The way I see it is that a bomb is entirely useless until it makes it to a hanger. From my experience with head to head fighting I have learned that the bomb is nice to have for stabilizing your self to aim better but I have also learned that it takes a good deal of attacking rounds to even make it to the enemy base to drop that bomb. But when two pilots drop there bombs go in and just start ripping the bombing formations apart you get your team to the target area much faster if your dogfighters are worth a darn and don’t make stupid mistakes.

I honestly do not care if the guy on my team is dropping for his kill or to get kills because to get those kills he has to keep pressing forward to the enemy. Eventually he will be at there base dogfighting right over it. You then can then just fly right up to the base to bomb if he is really good if he is not the best you might have to do some shooting. If the other team does not react to it and counter it then they will be in big trouble with bombers.

Enzo and I had a game today were we both dropped out bombs at the start flew to attack the enemy and it did not take to long for us to push them all the way back to there happy little runway were we then just flew circles around intimidating them by making them think we would spawn kill them. We would kill any that took off and engaged us or started to head to our oncoming bomber pilots. First thing that happened when we get there was the morafs on the other team just bailed and left there group commanders and air commodores to fend for them selves. Game ended just a few minutes after we breached there airbase. Not one spawn kill and it was over because no one seems to know how to counter two highly skilled turn fighters.

The way I see these arguments against flying with out a bomb is that its not an honor thing or even a playing to purpose of wining the game. If it was an honor thing then you would have a few pilots drop to counter the other pilots who dropped. I do not even know were the argument that it is not towards wining the game came from. Games end much faster usually in the favor of the pilots who dropped the bombs.

What I think it is over a power thing. If someone drops there bomb then you lose a bit of power over that player and he gains some over you. People are then to lazy to counter that power advantage in some way which there is many but instead they complain about it try to make the guy who dropped the bomb out to look like some rule breaker.

Or it is because the game now got a lot harder for them and they are dyeing more and getting less kills possibly even getting driven back to their base. So instead of admitting you can not take care of this new problem you complain about and try to make the guy that is taking advantage of your weak point look foolish for thinking out side the box.

It for instance is like telling the kid in 1st grade that he should not be thinking on a 6th grade level because it is unfair to the rest of his class mates so you forbid him to think any higher then the rest of his class.

Also I think we should stop limiting the styles of gameplay used now days. We have already limited the styles of play to much.

Lets take a history lesson.

I have been playing dogfight basically since it first started back around early 2010.

Back when dogfight was new there was not many players. You would seldom find a game with more than 3 players in it. The gameplay for the longest time was just dogfighting. No one really cared about the hangers in the game or the mission. Every one would red the name of the game Dogfight. A dogfight is a duel between to aircraft so at the very start every one really pretty much just dogfighter. We played to have fun more than to the mission.

lets say some were around 5 or 6 months after I first started playing dogfight finally has amassed enough players that you get in a game and it fills up with players pretty quickly. The style of the game play has now expanded to everything you can literally imagine being used in this game. You have spawn killing, camping, bombing, dogfighting, players just singling each other out and dueling each other away from the rest of the fighting. Everything was going on. Head on fighting was going on but there was not much of it. Most of it was turn fighting all the way to the enemy base bomb and with out bomb. People were good at fighting both ways because it was just a common thing then like how head on down the middle all the time is now.

I like to consider this the golden age of dogfight because that was when everything was a a lot of fun. It was all about fun. If you were not having fun then you went to a different game.

So about a year after that the same stuff is still going on except every one is focused on the mission. A couple months after wining the game became a big thing we start to get people complaining about spawn killing. Spawn killing is wrong so I was apart of going against it even though I used to do it on a daily bases because the goal of the game now at this time was to win the game. If you got in and started spawn killing the red you has won the game right then and there. They can not get up people coming in and bomb the people who last bombed start spawn killing then the other guys head back get a bomb then they bomb. You would rotate through it till you got all the hangers. It was so common every game was becoming a fight for who can get to the reds base first and pin them down.

So people turn the general public of dogfight against spawn killing so now you have pretty much a large mix of head on fighters and people flying to turn fight. The turn fighters go and secure the enemy base by camping it and putting fear into the enemy. You make them think you are going to spawn kill them. You do that and they will not budge off the runway. The head on pilots would do what we do today. Point and shoot at everything that moves.

Slowly you have people going against even just camping the reds base and you start to have people freaking out over pilots sneaking around the map and pilots dropping their bombs to dogfight. This type of thinking was started by what you would consider your best head on pilots. One of the first people to start making these type of flying crimes was B Strachen if any of you remember correctly he is a very big head to head pilot. This is when the war on every type of flying style except fly down the center in a head to head starts. This is pretty much to where we are today except that its not just hear and there its a full blown freaking war against every flying style but the head to head shooting style.

Every thing in this game is becoming a crime. Just wait the next thing that will happen is it will be a crime to fly higher or lower than a certain altitude in your head to head fights and it will be a crime to do a roll to avoid some rounds and re position your aim.
At the rate of which every aspect of dogfight is becoming criminalized I expect to see this by next year. See what has been going with every single one of these is to put the group of people who are weak and vulnerable and try to put them equal with every one else.

With the spawn killing it was putting the weak dogfighters in a position were they had another chance to make up for there failure to gain air superiority. It was to give them chance to get a strong dogfighter on there team to change things around for them.

The war against people sneaking around the map to bomb was to take the people who do not pay attention to there enemies in a position were they defend them selves.

The war against the camper is to again give the pilots who failed to gain air superiority a chance to recover form there failure.

The war on the dropper is to give the lazy idiot no inconveniences in his flight that are not beyond his ability to stop. It also is to help the people that just can not turn fight with a darn. In the end it is to give the pilots another chance to fix there mistakes they made of the battle field by making it harder for them to make any mistakes because every enemy will be coming down the same straight line.

We just need to stop limiting the ways people can play this game. The game is not called canyon run in ww1. It is called dogfight.

A good expression of your position, Sky.

I just think that if everyone played that way a lot more new players would be chased off. I hope for selectable games in the near future. I would gladly play the "no holds bared" version. As a father of two young dog fighters I am glad that the general population of Dogfight takes a slightly less aggressive stance than you do. I'm aware that this has a degree of "watering down" the game but I think it's more accessible to more players when you don't completely obliterate the Reds every chance you get. (i.e.:spawnkilling and heavy camping)

When the missions can be chosen and teams selected I think more people will be able to get the kind of game they're looking for. Going into aggressive games with players who are well equipped, highly skilled and ready to shread reds will be amazing! In the mean time, Zuperman has a reason to make the game more appealing to more players and if you want him to continue to put energy into this game you might want to consider helping promote that goal.

Tuck wrote:

=£= Ziza wrote:

Tuck wrote:

=£= Ziza wrote: I just can't understand why so many says " droppers only want make stads" , like a say, again, the rol of fighter should not always be the same pilot, the role of escort must be sandwiched between team members

Bingo, you can't understand.

puro sarcasmo mal usado contigo

PD: its funny when someone say "dropers are better than some one whit bomb", because with, or with out bomb, all pilots made face to face, and we know face to face its more easey whit a bomb in your plane, then there we can see a huge contradiction because dropers make face to face also, but do not want to change their tactics, also does not release pilots pumps. because apparently die many times is "effective". My only tactic throughout the game, "I assume that only have 1 life " and that results in a more effective team, because if everyone thought the same, just not play with the fate of being shot down by anyone on a face to face

Thank you for admitting that your personal stats are your driving factor in the game as opposed to protecting the "bombers." This is the reason for the derogatory term of dropper...point illustrated. Deaths don't matter, the mission matters. Be happy being competitive & focus on the mission.

Lol , i say that for all team, no for me. If all my team thinks like that way ( we have only one life) nobody wonna make face to face, and the missions of the scort gonna be importan. But when you have many pilots in your team who only die and die and die for make face to face and the hangars stil intact, well... You can understand me ? Sorry my english lol

Sky,

Lazy idiots? What's up with that? In your dissertation, you said exactly what I'd expect from a game, or anything else in life. The game is steadily evolving, so of course it's going to change for the duration of its life cycle. That fact that you were here from day 1 is cool, but it doesn't give you any special say in that evolution.

Have you played any other online games? The points you support are abhorrent in all I've played. Not all are capable of spawnkilling, so camping is probably the #1 hated act out there. The game the Army hosted even had an option to vote you out of the game, which was normally done for campers.

The points for spawnkilling, camping, & dropping all have the same counter argument. Sneaking (don't care about this unless it's a lopsided game), spawnkilling, & camping require no special skills & players are looking for an easy advantage on the last 2, which is pretty lazy. The dropper is also looking to remove inconveniences that hinder his flight. If you use these things on reds, are successful, & it's their failure to be good enough to gain air superiority, then it is also your failure to be able to gain that superiority with that Mk84 (part of the point, because many droppers ARE that good). You guys electing yourselves to be the killers is also a little selfish.

We could (& likely will) go on about this indefinitely. Neither side will change the mind of the other & we'll continue to beat each other up & further divide the forum. That's why I tjink eliminating the bomb penalty will allow this to stop. Droppers lose an easy advantage, bombers lose accuracy...compromise...wish our elected leaders could do it.

The name dogfight is a marketing angle. If the only purpose was a knife fight, we wouldn't have bombs at all.

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: I dont think you understand the role of the escort like ziza said.

There's a better than average chance that I understand escorting more than you & ziza combined. The only mission in this game that truly supports it is zep defense. We have no dedicated bombers to escort in bombing missions.

Let's just stop the discussions altogether on dropping/chasing/bombing/escorting/ and blah blah blah....Neither side will budge on their views. Droppers will drop for their reasons and bomb carriers will continue to carry their bombs for their own reasons. The whining really needs to stop!! This brings the moral down in a game and on the forum. Let's keep things simple and friendly!!!

gen~~~~~~~~jack wrote: Let's just stop the discussions altogether on dropping/chasing/bombing/escorting/ and blah blah blah....Neither side will budge on their views. Droppers will drop for their reasons and bomb carriers will continue to carry their bombs for their own reasons. The whining really needs to stop!! This brings the moral down in a game and on the forum. Let's keep things simple and friendly!!!

Stop whining about the debate jack.

If we're back to the whining thing, then let's stop whining about other things that people hate too...win8 users, lag switches, etc., it's all the same. If you can make it work in the game & that's your thing, then by all means, lag switch away, right? Don't whine about it.

You're right, though, it's not good for the community, that's why the debate should end with a fix rather than only one side sucking it up & not "limiting the play" of others. Yet, it's ok for them to limit opposing styles of play by forcing drops, or by spawnkilling or camping (both lamented here), to limit play completely.

I understand that gams evolve over time but this one is not evolving to the better. The way It looks to me is that the game just keeps getting more tense. The combat is not more tense but the players are. You guys get so tense up that when some one does something that the rest of the group does not do then you get yelled at, called a cowered, and are made out to look like some type of criminal. Its ridiculous.

I use the term lazy idiots for a few simple reasons. If some one drops there bomb and is repeatedly killing you and your team mates there are several things you can do. You can either figure out their pattern and shoot them down when they are flying at you or you can drop and dogfight them kill them over and over to show them that what they got going on is not going to work for them this game. Instead what I find happens most is that people just start complaining about how that person is a dropper and how it is cowardly and how it is wrong. They never do anything physically to stop it they just whine about it in the game. I call that lazy and stupid. From my understanding people will fight even harder if you start to piss them off. Why would you piss off an already lose bull.


I would like some one to explain to me how spawn killing and camping require no skill.

Spawn killing definitely requires a good deal less skill then camping does but it dos require skill. You have to time things right to get them right off the runway. You also need to be one of the best turn fighters to get turned around fast enough to to leave the runway in your sight so you can kill anyone as soon as there wheals get up in the air. You also need to be a good turn fighter to deal with the few guys that will slip up in the air and get a chance to engage you.

Now camping requires a lot of skill to do any good at it. In camping you have to let your enemy get in the air and let him engage you in a dogfight if you didn’t it would be spawn killing. What most camping becomes is a dogfight between the camper and every player of the enemy base. You shot one down and he just comes back and joins the dogfight all over again. Saying camping takes no skill is like telling some one that you have no skill for dogfighting 4 or 5 people at a time and wining all by your self. In camping you do this constantly because every guy you shoot down spawns probably 500 yards away from you. If camping is taking you no skill at all then the players you are fighting are absolutely rubbish dogfighters.

Now your little problem you have were you think that I am saying I must be listened to because I have been hear for so long is ridiculous. Were did I ever say I had seniority over you guys or I should have a say in anything because of how long I have been hear. I said that no where. What I did do was a give a history of how dogfight has been evolving and how I feel it has been evolving for the worse. This does not mean you have to listen to me at all even though I would like for you to try to understand were I am coming from. I can see the benefits from flying both ways bomb or with out. To me it feels like every one against dropping bombs to gain air superiority is just plugging there ears and say fa la la fa la la or some type of catchy little tune.

It would be fun if the game did go back to were the bomb had no weight penalty at all. It probably will never happen though. You last statement you make about the knife fight and the bombs. I never said anything about flying head on in a face off being wrong. can go ahead and do that all you like but you guys need to ease and stop making every other type of style of play a crime if it is not your style and if it gives that player an advantage over you don’t make it a crime to do that but find a way to counter it. I am not going to complain if some one drops a bomb on my hanger. I am going to find a way to make sure they never drop a bomb on my hanger again.

You also mention “who elected you to do the killing” The point of this game is to kill. You kill planes, hangers, ships and Zeppelins. If we are working for a team game it does not matter who is doing the killing. What matters is that it is getting done and that you are wining the game. From what I seem to constantly hear from you anti bomb droppers is the only stats that matters are hangers bombed and games won. If that is true then who gives the slightest dam who is doing the killing. If you won’t do the killing then I will.

Tuck wrote:

gen~~~~~~~~jack wrote: Let's just stop the discussions altogether on dropping/chasing/bombing/escorting/ and blah blah blah....Neither side will budge on their views. Droppers will drop for their reasons and bomb carriers will continue to carry their bombs for their own reasons. The whining really needs to stop!! This brings the moral down in a game and on the forum. Let's keep things simple and friendly!!!

Stop whining about the debate jack.

If we're back to the whining thing, then let's stop whining about other things that people hate too...win8 users, lag switches, etc., it's all the same. If you can make it work in the game & that's your thing, then by all means, lag switch away, right? Don't whine about it.

You're right, though, it's not good for the community, that's why the debate should end with a fix rather than only one side sucking it up & not "limiting the play" of others. Yet, it's ok for them to limit opposing styles of play by forcing drops, or by spawnkilling or camping (both lamented here), to limit play completely.

The difference is that it does not limit your play right from the start like how the anti dropper stance does. Dropping, spawn killing, camping It only limits your play once you have failed to stop it from reaching your base.

Skydavis1 wrote: Now camping requires a lot of skill to do any good at it. In camping you have to let your enemy get in the air and let him engage you in a dogfight if you didn’t it would be spawn killing. What most camping becomes is a dogfight between the camper and every player of the enemy base. You shot one down and he just comes back and joins the dogfight all over again. Saying camping takes no skill is like telling some one that you have no skill for dogfighting 4 or 5 people at a time and wining all by your self. In camping you do this constantly because every guy you shoot down spawns probably 500 yards away from you. If camping is taking you no skill at all then the players you are fighting are absolutely rubbish dogfighters.

EXACTLY! If I finally manage to make it all the way to your base/carrier and bomb? I am gonna hangout and dance thru the skies in joyful celebration with your team! I view camping as a tactic.. period. And once I am dogfighting 3-5 enemy reds over their base my bombers on my team are flying in unopposed!! And as Skydavis has said.. it requires SKILL to be a good camper! If you don't like me camping? There's a simple solution.. SHOOT ME DOWN! But just to let you know.. I always bring marshmellows with me when I go camping Heck I might even bring my hammock

*note: I don't camp or advocate camping in 6 vs 2 or any # vs 1... but other than that camp away!

(I personally don't advocate or encourage spawnkilling.. nor do I tell the pilots in my squadron that they can or can't spawnkill with their plane. That's a personal choice I leave up to them individually. Yet I avoid doing it myself because I hate being spawnkilled myself.. do I think that someone who does it should be banned or ostracized? No.. but once I DO get into the air it's payback time lol!)

No, I said spawnkilling & camping require no special skills...anyone can do it. How long you live depends on your skill level & the level of the opposition. Camping is really about suppression of play & it should also be addressed. Actually, I really wouldn't care about that if there was an option to pick your spawn base. Sometimes fighting over the base after dropping is a function of trying to fight your way out, but parking there is unfair. As a camper, you have speed & altitude, but the guys taking off don't. You can't attempt to fight until you unload your bomb & get speed. I've seen a lot of guys get killed before that happens. One disclaimer: everyone fights to support teammates coming over the hill. That's temporary support...do it & leave. Camping as your way of life is unfair. Sorry, Zeb, gotta disagree with you there, my personal opinion. I prefer a fairness in a game, & as I said earlier, this would be the only game I've ever seen in around 15 years of online play that endorses it, even air combat sims.

BTW, dropping absolutely does limit play of the bomb carrying team from the start since they know they have to drop to effectively engage you.

I'd love for these issues to die, same as everyone else, but it never will without some sort of game change.

Tuck wrote: No, I said spawnkilling & camping require no special skills...anyone can do it. How long you live depends on your skill level & the level of the opposition. Camping is really about suppression of play & it should also be addressed. Actually, I really wouldn't care about that if there was an option to pick your spawn base. Sometimes fighting over the base after dropping is a function of trying to fight your way out, but parking there is unfair. As a camper, you have speed & altitude, but the guys taking off don't. You can't attempt to fight until you unload your bomb & get speed. I've seen a lot of guys get killed before that happens. One disclaimer: everyone fights to support teammates coming over the hill. That's temporary support...do it & leave. Camping as your way of life is unfair. Sorry, Zeb, gotta disagree with you there, my personal opinion. I prefer a fairness in a game, & as I said earlier, this would be the only game I've ever seen in around 15 years of online play that endorses it, even air combat sims.

BTW, dropping absolutely does limit play of the bomb carrying team from the start since they know they have to drop to effectively engage you.

I'd love for these issues to die, same as everyone else, but it never will without some sort of game change.

Lol, go and say that to USA AIR FORCE , a about " unfair" . You gonna a fair play? Play candy crush, or change your plane to a lowest plane when you figth vs a lowest rang. This game is about air superiority, and that's means an " unfair game" , all missions it's about that, and camping it's an air superiority. And no, no one can camping, I'm sur I can shoot you down if you are camping me... No one can camping, that's require special skills. If you don't see specials skills in a camping, I see now why you see specials skills in face to face. in a face to face, a pilot low range has a good chance to kill you, because you're giving him a static target, but I assure you that a pilot of low rank could not do camping as simply

btw, is funny you mention the example of the zep. For if we consider that minimum will need 3 pilots to bring him down. How can something so hard to bring down need an escort, but not a single pilot? You can tell the difference is that a bomber pilot can defend itself. Well, if so, simply would not have so many "deaths" in the final stages of the game.We should emphasize also that a pilot has only one bomb, making it even more valuable their safety

Tuck wrote:
BTW, dropping absolutely does limit play of the bomb carrying team from the start since they know they have to drop to effectively engage you.

I'm sorry Tuck, I don't agree with you there. There are other strategies you can do to counter droppers. It does change the game but that really should be acceptable. This is not an easy game and I don't think It would be as much fun without so much challenge. There are different ways to play this game and people have the freedom to use their style. If they choose to play a different style you can adjust, leave or get your butt kicked.

It would be kind of like a baseball pitcher demanding that the other team have only right handed batters.

The reason the Misfits adopted rule #12 was to try to encourage courteous play. If someone from another squad does not want to play that way there is nothing that can be done without making more limitations on the game functionality.

(The only change I'd like is to add enough immunity time on spawning to allow you to get airborne and start a turn or drop. That could be enough to prevent rampant spawn killings. A red could not just mow down multiple blues while they are still on the runway. )

*[M] McFate wrote:

Tuck wrote:
BTW, dropping absolutely does limit play of the bomb carrying team from the start since they know they have to drop to effectively engage you.

I'm sorry Tuck, I don't agree with you there. There are other strategies you can do to counter droppers. It does change the game but that really should be acceptable. This is not an easy game and I don't think It would be as much fun without so much challenge. There are different ways to play this game and people have the freedom to use their style. If they choose to play a different style you can adjust, leave or get your butt kicked.

It would be kind of like a baseball pitcher demanding that the other team have only right handed batters.

The reason the Misfits adopted rule #12 was to try to encourage courteous play. If someone from another squad does not want to play that way there is nothing that can be done without making more limitations on the game functionality.

(The only change I'd like is to add enough immunity time on spawning to allow you to get airborne and start a turn or drop. That could be enough to prevent rampant spawn killings. A red could not just mow down multiple blues while they are still on the runway. )

Your choice, but you usally do have to drop to engage a skilled dropper. Whether thats at your base or halfway there, or 3 times in between because he's light & fast, it doesn't matter. I never said they can't drop, I'm only arguing the position & advocating a solution to end the discussion.

Yawn....

=£= Ziza wrote: Lol, go and say that to USA AIR FORCE , a about " unfair" . You gonna a fair play? Play candy crush, or change your plane to a lowest plane when you figth vs a lowest rang. This game is about air superiority, and that's means an " unfair game" , all missions it's about that, and camping it's an air superiority. And no, no one can camping, I'm sur I can shoot you down if you are camping me... No one can camping, that's require special skills. If you don't see specials skills in a camping, I see now why you see specials skills in face to face. in a face to face, a pilot low range has a good chance to kill you, because you're giving him a static target, but I assure you that a pilot of low rank could not do camping as simply

btw, is funny you mention the example of the zep. For if we consider that minimum will need 3 pilots to bring him down. How can something so hard to bring down need an escort, but not a single pilot? You can tell the difference is that a bomber pilot can defend itself. Well, if so, simply would not have so many "deaths" in the final stages of the game.We should emphasize also that a pilot has only one bomb, making it even more valuable their safety

As I've said before, this is a game. Fairness & playability are important here as they are not in the real world. Fairness brings & keeps players. I see low ranked players camp all of the time, so your point is moot & clearly, the game is not all about AS. I was USAF for 26 years & have an extremely good understanding of the real word. Been flying online for over a decade too & understand the difference. At the outset, EVERY pilot has a bomb, no? For the record, the most effective tactic I've seen is the group formation, not dropping.

If you need 3 guys to bring down a zep, even outnumbeted, you aren't doing it right...it's TOO easy to bring down. There you go being worried about dying again.

I entered this discussion to make a point at that time. I'd love to see the issue die, but it won't until something changes to end the divide. That was my whole deal, understanding & talking solutions, but we can argue it for as long as you want. I have 15 essays to write in a short amount of time & this is helping the writer's block.

I haven't said a word lately can I say this mid way through ww1 it was like this they sent a group of fighter bombers to bomb their base and most often than not they would run into fighter bombers on the way to their base now do you really think these guys dropped their bombs at the first sign of trouble absolutely not the bombing mission was first and for most the priority they fought each other with their bombs and tried to fight to the target because if you dropped your Bomb then thousands of men would die on the ground if you want to stay in the form of the ww1 pilot like this game was Made to honor then you should be able to figure out why there are different types of missions

After following this thread and reading all the other dropper threads, the respect iv had for some player's have been destroyed. This will be my last post on this whole dropper/escort BS. I dont care who you are or how good u think u are, if u have to have some type of advantage over the other team in order to win the obviously your not a very well rounded pilot, any dropper can out fly a bomb carryi g pilot, known freakin fact due to the speed and manuevering gain from being a dropper, now I didn't say out gun but out FLY. If you can't be on the same playing field as all the other player then u should respectfully find another room that wants your type of "Help". I undestand in real war this is ok but this a game no lives are on the line and no one house is at risk of being blown up.yea u can still fly head to head bombless but no matter how u try to rationalize it u still have an advantage over bomb carrying pilots. Anybody with integrity and a pair of eyes can see that. Drop if u want but in my book your a coward that needs extra help and can't win playin On the same page as everyone else.

[DD]*joker* wrote: After following this thread and reading all the other dropper threads, the respect iv had for some player's have been destroyed. This will be my last post on this whole dropper/escort BS. I dont care who you are or how good u think u are, if u have to have some type of advantage over the other team in order to win the obviously your not a very well rounded pilot, any dropper can out fly a bomb carryi g pilot, known freakin fact due to the speed and manuevering gain from being a dropper, now I didn't say out gun but out FLY. If you can't be on the same playing field as all the other player then u should respectfully find another room that wants your type of "Help". I undestand in real war this is ok but this a game no lives are on the line and no one house is at risk of being blown up.yea u can still fly head to head bombless but no matter how u try to rationalize it u still have an advantage over bomb carrying pilots. Anybody with integrity and a pair of eyes can see that. Drop if u want but in my book your a coward that needs extra help and can't win playin On the same page as everyone else.

Well i already mentioned i am no good at head on shooting and so i use my strength for the team whether you like it or not!! Call me a coward or late for supper..It doesn't bother me at all:) I do bomb but certainly not in every game. If you want a level playing field, I'm sorry but it's not going to happen:) at least not when I'm in a game or some other dropper

I want to say that i agree with everything sky Davis said except for the spawnkilling comment. Falcons dont support spawnkilling in any form but Davis opinion is his own and not view of falcon. However everything else said was 100% agreement.

gen~~~~~~~~jack wrote:

[DD]*joker* wrote: After following this thread and reading all the other dropper threads, the respect iv had for some player's have been destroyed. This will be my last post on this whole dropper/escort BS. I dont care who you are or how good u think u are, if u have to have some type of advantage over the other team in order to win the obviously your not a very well rounded pilot, any dropper can out fly a bomb carryi g pilot, known freakin fact due to the speed and manuevering gain from being a dropper, now I didn't say out gun but out FLY. If you can't be on the same playing field as all the other player then u should respectfully find another room that wants your type of "Help". I undestand in real war this is ok but this a game no lives are on the line and no one house is at risk of being blown up.yea u can still fly head to head bombless but no matter how u try to rationalize it u still have an advantage over bomb carrying pilots. Anybody with integrity and a pair of eyes can see that. Drop if u want but in my book your a coward that needs extra help and can't win playin On the same page as everyone else.

Well i already mentioned i am no good at head on shooting and so i use my strength for the team whether you like it or not!! Call me a coward or late for supper..It doesn't bother me at all:) I do bomb but certainly not in every game. If you want a level playing field, I'm sorry but it's not going to happen:) at least not when I'm in a game or some other dropper

That's wasn't aimed a u friend so please don't take personal offense.

I wasn't offended:) when I post comments here, I'm not upset or anything like that:)

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: I want to say that i agree with everything sky Davis said except for the spawnkilling comment. Falcons dont support spawnkilling in any form but Davis opinion is his own and not view of falcon. However everything else said was 100% agreement.

I am not a fan of spawn killing ether but it falls under this argument. Lets put it this I do not mind when some one tries to spawn kill I just won’t take part in it.

*[M] McFate wrote:

Tuck wrote:
BTW, dropping absolutely does limit play of the bomb carrying team from the start since they know they have to drop to effectively engage you.

I'm sorry Tuck, I don't agree with you there. There are other strategies you can do to counter droppers. It does change the game but that really should be acceptable. This is not an easy game and I don't think It would be as much fun without so much challenge. There are different ways to play this game and people have the freedom to use their style. If they choose to play a different style you can adjust, leave or get your butt kicked.

It would be kind of like a baseball pitcher demanding that the other team have only right handed batters.

The reason the Misfits adopted rule #12 was to try to encourage courteous play. If someone from another squad does not want to play that way there is nothing that can be done without making more limitations on the game functionality.

(The only change I'd like is to add enough immunity time on spawning to allow you to get airborne and start a turn or drop. That could be enough to prevent rampant spawn killings. A red could not just mow down multiple blues while they are still on the runway. )

Best idea all day. The immunity should be removed as soon as a pilot starts firing though. As soon as a pilot is a threat then people should be able to kill them.

I consider myself a head to head shooter, much like Mr. Davy Crocket. I've been here a relatively short time (9 months). In this time I've learned to counter the droppers, without dropping. Unless I have to turn fight, very seldom do I drop it. If someone gets by me, and we are close to my base, maybe. In this game, much like real life, you must learn to adapt. If you don't, then you get swallowed up. Much like the dreaded lag, I hate the lag, but it's here. So, I must find ways to deal with it, when everyone glitches out, I barrel roll so when they show back up, I'm not shot immediately. For every problem, there is a solution. It is possible to take out a dropper while carrying a bomb. Is it easy? No, but it is possible.

Skydavis1 wrote:

*[M] McFate wrote: (The only change I'd like is to add enough immunity time on spawning to allow you to get airborne and start a turn or drop. That could be enough to prevent rampant spawn killings. A red could not just mow down multiple blues while they are still on the runway. )

Best idea all day. The immunity should be removed as soon as a pilot starts firing though. As soon as a pilot is a threat then people should be able to kill them.

I agree Sky, Having immunity end, either with a timer or when someone starts firing, would be ideal as far as game play. The reason I advocate just the timer option is that the game coding already exists. There currently is an immunity-upon-spawning delay for ranks 1-3. In a long lost thread Zup wrote about the complications he had while experimenting with the issue. It seems like there could be some complications if he were to try to make new code about immunity lifting after someone shoots. I thought just opening the immunity to all ranks would be less prone to new problems.

(People would probably adjust their tactics to avoid coming straight into the red runway. The other option would be to turn South base 90 degrees.)

Yea the old complications were that you would have pilots that glitches and were immune for a whole game. They could just fly straight in and bomb your hangers indestructible to all but them selfs.

[DD]*joker* wrote: After following this thread and reading all the other dropper threads, the respect iv had for some player's have been destroyed. This will be my last post on this whole dropper/escort BS. I dont care who you are or how good u think u are, if u have to have some type of advantage over the other team in order to win the obviously your not a very well rounded pilot, any dropper can out fly a bomb carryi g pilot, known freakin fact due to the speed and manuevering gain from being a dropper, now I didn't say out gun but out FLY. If you can't be on the same playing field as all the other player then u should respectfully find another room that wants your type of "Help". I undestand in real war this is ok but this a game no lives are on the line and no one house is at risk of being blown up.yea u can still fly head to head bombless but no matter how u try to rationalize it u still have an advantage over bomb carrying pilots. Anybody with integrity and a pair of eyes can see that. Drop if u want but in my book your a coward that needs extra help and can't win playin On the same page as everyone else.

Lol joker, i never thought you had that much fear of the droppers. And you are right, this is a game, and games can be played as everyone wants. And if you call someone a coward, you are accusing and cursing, and that's not leave to play. if someone finds a way to delete your style, is not a cowardly act, is an act of freedom that every player has the rigth to use. And if you do not like things change and overcome you, we'll, I think it's you who must leave the game, not the fighter , but if what you are referring to is to use tactics against unumered teams, we'll, again, you decide to stay or go, because the enemy team has no obligation to do the same as tactic as you. This is very simple, if you can not adapt to new tactics, is the fault of stubbornness

While I will do everything I can try to do except drop in a bombing mission, when I do drop I always rearm as soon as threat is over, definitely have to adapt to whoever is playing...whether moraf or green level 8.