And you missed the point to you see I believe in the rules of war. If this was war not only would I kill you but I would kill every. One around you and then kill something more. But there are some that do not want to play like that. After all this is a game. And we have our own type of air to.air combat and we more than know about fighting in dog fights and we kindly ask that we can do this that's all we ask are skills are based on a different style that's all it is so why can't we enjoy a good game without fighters are object is to still win we just do it different

Nothing can throw off a good head on shooter like a dropper on a rampage lol. Now some one tell me how that does not help your team win a game or turn the tide.

Hey SkyDavis...I havent played you in awhile.....Want to play in Artrois?....I'll be there ...look forward to playing you. a bunch of Falcons were in there....maybe they will be there too for a Falcon party

Ziza get over yourself. This thread is not about you it is about a style of.fighting. until you show that you can carry and fight. And understand our style of fighting. Stay off this thread

darraxx wrote: And you missed the point to you see I believe in the rules of war. If this was war not only would I kill you but I would kill every. One around you and then kill something more. But there are some that do not want to play like that. After all this is a game. And we have our own type of air to.air combat and we more than know about fighting in dog fights and we kindly ask that we can do this that's all we ask are skills are based on a different style that's all it is so why can't we enjoy a good game without fighters are object is to still win we just do it different

I got the point of what you were saying lol. Its just unrealistic what you are asking. You want a game were even one just flies head on shooting at each other. What If I want a game were my whole team drops their bombs goes on a dogfighting rampage to drive the enemy back to their base were we can camp the crap out of them till they leave then we bomb the hangers.

See what you asking for is to play the game how you want to play it and droppers are also asking to play the game how they want to play it. But in your view the dropper has to ask the bomb carrier if he can play the way he wants to play it. So my question is were did the bomb carrier become god and were did the dropper end up having to ask permission to drop and dogfight. See the cost for you to play the game how you want to (which is already the way 90% of the games are played now days) is to take away the ability of the dropper or the dogfight as I should call it to play the game the why he likes to play it.

I get you point and for the reason that is discriminating against the dogfighting style of play or the air superiority style of play I and many other consider your point your trying to get across as complete bullshit.

On a lighter note. Swop I am coming. Be their in a few seconds.

Ok let me get this one straight we can play the game we want because we have to play the game you want is that correct?

darraxx wrote: Ok let me get this one straight we can play the game we want because we have to play the game you want is that correct?

Isn't that what aerial combat is all about? Exploiting your enemies weakness and forcing them to play to your strengths. When that does happen, you could, ya know, make adjustments.

I don't care what you do, because I try my best to be prepared for all possibilities, no matter how unlikely.

I love doing that

SkyDavis.

Here is something for you to enjoy....while ur in the cockpit playing dogfight...(while I do whine about cursing, spawnkilling and teamkilling)...I'm not a fan of whining..

so enjoy this

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Cricket now I know you done your far share of Head to head straight on combat with a bomb now even I like to take on fighters. All I'm am.saying is can't the guys that want got go at it be aloud to if we want. Of course I will take on fighters in games I always will we just want the chance to play head to head

Ziza and pedrinho, if you aren't gonna talk about the topic at hand, stay out of it.

darraxx wrote: Ok let me get this one straight we can play the game we want because we have to play the game you want is that correct?

See now you see how un realistic your thinking is. None of us are going to get the perfect game we want unless one side of the argument has complete power over the other side of the argument. We can say right now that will never happen. A dropper has a way to counter the head on fighter and the head on fighter has a way to counter the dropper. That would be in argument and in the fight. In argument I honestly think the Dropper side has the most evidence to support there side and a more realistic argument over the bomb carriers but not every one agrees.

You see I am not going to get my perfect game all the time were I get my whole team to drop and run the other team off. You will also not get your perfect game all the time were every one carriers their bomb and flies right down the center. You will get your perfect game more often then I will of course because most of the dogfight community has been beaten into the single minded thinking of fly straight and center down the map with a bomb shooting a constant hose of ammo at the other reds doing the same thing. They get this beaten into them because any time some one drops a bomb or goes high or around the map they get called out by the rest of the group and called cowards for their actions. They then get their minds filled with all the bullshit that what they are doing is cowardly and that it does not benefit their team at all and is in no way going to help your team win. You get the game you like to play the most often because it is the most socially accepted.

I understand this game is not an actual war and that it is just a game and that you want to play the game your way. But I think you need to open your eyes and realize you can not always just play the game your way and your way only. I will also not get the pleasure to play the game my way and my way only as well. It just won’t happen.

Now to your statement that I have quoted. I am going to change a few words in your quote to make it more realistic.

You can play the game how you like because others can play the game how they like.

Or in other words. A bomb carriers or head on fighters can fly straight and center down the map all he wants shooting in straight lines all he likes but Bomb droppers or dogfighters will still fly weightless spiral around in the the air dropping on to the tails of other aircraft to shoot them down.

In short you can fly with your bomb and if you do not wan to deal with a turn fighter or dogfighter then shoot him down when he is barreling towards you in a head on and do not complain when he goes by you and drops on your tail and picks out of the air because you had every second from the the moment he got with in visual range and gun range to take him down before he got on your tail and did you in. The dogfighter will not complain about the bomb carrier and the head on shooter because he has all the speed he needs to dodge the fountains of hot lead flying at him and all the advantage once he is past the bomb carrier because he can out turn him. The fight is the bomb carriers until the dropper has passed by him then the fight becomes the droppers because his aircraft will perform maneuvers much faster. And if either side is unhappy then their is always the quit button and several different servers to choose from.

darraxx wrote: Cricket now I know you done your far share of Head to head straight on combat with a bomb now even I like to take on fighters. All I'm am.saying is can't the guys that want got go at it be aloud to if we want. Of course I will take on fighters in games I always will we just want the chance to play head to head

That would be every single game. I am rarely in a game were its all dogfighting and no head on fighting. Honestly I am rarely in game were some one even drops to just dogfight. Most games are just head on down the center all the time. I wish I could get the games you are getting Darraxx because I did not think they existed.

Ok here's the thing we know there is no perfect game but if we work together we can.smooth a whole bunch of crap..
Out so we can get our games and you can get your game I don't mind fighting your way but please understand sometimes we would like to fly our games and not have fighter cover is there some reason why both types of flying cant happen
/

SkyDavis...

I like cheese ...I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did....eating cheese makes hearing the whining all the much better

darraxx wrote: Ok here's the thing we know there is no perfect game but if we work together we can.smooth a whole bunch of crap..
Out so we can get our games and you can get your game I don't mind fighting your way but please understand sometimes we would like to fly our games and not have fighter cover is there some reason why both types of flying cant happen
/

You have good dreams but it will never happen. It will be just like how we will never have no team killers, spawn killers, or rule breakers of any kind. We have the whole dogfight community trying to take care of that it still happens. You are asking for something that is literally impossible unless we get the choice to chose what games we join with in a server and the choice to create and start our own game rooms. Then you would be able to invite all your head on shooting friends to fill that room up and there is your perfect game. I would not even mind joining and fighting head on. I am actually very very very good at it. I just like having 50,000 different options during a fight. Until we get an update were we can make our own game room none of what you want will be possible except by good luck and fortune with in the games inner dice rolling.

Ok let me rephrase this we so not want every bombing mission to be played like we want all we ask is that when we have a game where we are going head to head that we be left alone that's it that's all can we have a got of respect we will fly your games hey that's just part of the game

"In short you can fly with your bomb and if you do not wan to deal with a turn fighter or dogfighter then shoot him down when he is barreling towards you in a head on and do not complain when he goes by you and drops on your tail and picks out of the air because you had every second from the the moment he got with in visual range and gun range to take him down before he got on your tail and did you in. The dogfighter will not complain about the bomb carrier and the head on shooter because he has all the speed he needs to dodge the fountains of hot lead flying at him and all the advantage once he is past the bomb carrier because he can out turn him. The fight is the bomb carriers until the dropper has passed by him then the fight becomes the droppers because his aircraft will perform maneuvers much faster. And if either side is unhappy then their is always the quit button and several different servers to choose from."

perfectly said SkyDavis.....this is a very respectful comment which I appreciate....

I think this is a discussion for head to head fighters....no offence to turn fighters
but I do believe this thread wasnt made to start anything between the two, but to give head to head fighters some recondition
can we please stop agruing about it and and get back to topic?????

Let's just forget it and play our way.

tactics are tactics and for me personally as long as you arent spawnkilling, teamkilling or cursing.. then I wont complain...thats what playing honorable is all about.

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: I'm for whatever Zuperman wants....He doesnt support spawnkilling and teamkilling...and he doesnt want tactics diminished.

If this game were just dogfight missions head to head then he wouldnt have developed all of the many other missions...thats the beauty of Dogfight....we have bombing, zepplin, tank, dogfight, etc. Many more of the missions are "team missions"...and for that I and a super majority in dogfight are greatful

I really couldn't care less what Zup wants. This isn't his personal arena where all must abide, it exists to create income & to gain notoriety for echoboom so it can make more income. Once funds are exchanged, we should all get more of a say in DF. If it is his personal arena, I'm inclined to be done with the game (well actually, I'm not very far from done anyway). Zup may genuinely care about these things, but I'd also bet the restrictions placed on language & spawn/team killing have as much to do with goals 1 & 2 in order to make the game appealing to more people (to achieve goals 1 & 2) as any sense of cleanliness & fair play...noobs aren't likely to stay & buy upgrades if they're spawnkilled repeatedly. I would also guess that there are different missions to make that appeal broader & to accommodate everyone's style as opposed to throwing all styles into one map, which could be interesting if the game were more evolved.

What droppers are really advocating for is an unfair advantage in bombing missions to get easy kills & to play "their" dogfight game. To that end, it's really not much different than spawnkilling, except for the fact that you can still have some chance with a dropper. Remember too that you won't face the dropper once in a sortie, he'll be there constantly since he's fast & agile & you are not. You can kill him many times, but it only takes once for you to have your flight time wasted. Droppers also prolong games since all have to drop to fight them, which also lends itself to collateral damage on the dropper's bomb-carrying teammates. If we equate escorting (dropping) to real world war as strategy, then why do we limit spawnkilling? As I said in another post, in war, I'd kill you as you slept to prevent you from even getting to a plane. This is a low-grade video game (as compared to other complex online pc sims), not war. Playability here is as important as anything else in the game.

Everyone drops under some circumstances. What's being advocated here is a fair shot at getting to the target, nothing more. A skilled player can easily upset a game & eliminate that chance, especially for inexperienced players in inferior planes. Don't forget that most people speaking here are experienced & have some confidence in their abilities. Not all players have this.

What we need are 2 things. 1) Selectable missions to allow for player style (some games even show who is in play to allow you to find friends/enemies). 2) Remove the performance penalty for carrying a bomb. That would make all of this a moot point.

edit: the views expressed and/or implied here are solely my own. They do not necessarily reflect the views of the [M]isfits as a whole, my wife, nor the 3 yorkies sitting on the couch with me, although my wife is contractually obligated to agree with me & the yorkies generally agree with me when treats are involved.

Tuck wrote:

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: I'm for whatever Zuperman wants....He doesnt support spawnkilling and teamkilling...and he doesnt want tactics diminished.

If this game were just dogfight missions head to head then he wouldnt have developed all of the many other missions...thats the beauty of Dogfight....we have bombing, zepplin, tank, dogfight, etc. Many more of the missions are "team missions"...and for that I and a super majority in dogfight are greatful

I really couldn't care less what Zup wants. This isn't his personal arena where all must abide, it exists to create income & to gain notoriety for echoboom so it can make more income. Once funds are exchanged, we should all get more of a say in DF. If it is his personal arena, I'm inclined to be done with the game (well actually, I'm not very far from done anyway). Zup may genuinely care about these things, but I'd also bet the restrictions placed on language & spawn/team killing have as much to do with goals 1 & 2 in order to make the game appealing to more people (to achieve goals 1 & 2) as any sense of cleanliness & fair play...noobs aren't likely to stay & buy upgrades if they're spawnkilled repeatedly. I would also guess that there are different missions to make that appeal broader & to accommodate everyone's style as opposed to throwing all styles into one map, which could be interesting if the game were more evolved.

What droppers are really advocating for is an unfair advantage in bombing missions to get easy kills & to play "their" dogfight game. To that end, it's really not much different than spawnkilling, except for the fact that you can still have some chance with a dropper. Remember too that you won't face the dropper once in a sortie, he'll be there constantly since he's fast & agile & you are not. You can kill him many times, but it only takes once for you to have your flight time wasted. Droppers also prolong games since all have to drop to fight them, which also lends itself to collateral damage on the dropper's bomb-carrying teammates. If we equate escorting (dropping) to real world war as strategy, then why do we limit spawnkilling? As I said in another post, in war, I'd kill you as you slept to prevent you from even getting to a plane. This is a low-grade video game (as compared to other complex online pc sims), not war. Playability here is as important as anything else in the game.

Everyone drops under some circumstances. What's being advocated here is a fair shot at getting to the target, nothing more. A skilled player can easily upset a game & eliminate that chance, especially for inexperienced players in inferior planes. Don't forget that most people speaking here are experienced & have some confidence in their abilities. Not all players have this.

What we need are 2 things. 1) Selectable missions to allow for player style (some games even show who is in play to allow you to find friends/enemies). 2) Remove the performance penalty for carrying a bomb. That would make all of this a moot point.

post of the week

Great way to say it tuck thank you.

I don't want to start anything but to me cover its a fancy word for kill stealin.lol I want to kill my own people not ha e someone fly ahead of me and steal all the points from pilots trying to fly a mission Properly and get thier own kills. I dont need someone flyin past me as I'm shooting at someone and then have my kill stolen by someone who doesn't have the skill to kill carrying a bomb cuz they arent fast enough or can't turn quick enough. I'm a head to head fighter I don't need some loser" covering me". If we were ment to provide cover zup would have added actually bomber planes to the game to escort amd call it an escort mission. U CAN FLY HOWEVER U WANT....BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN ULL BE RESPECTED FOR IT. Can't force respect and can't change people we've never met in person......please understand this is MY personal opinion not influenced by anybody but me myself and I. Honestly it would be quit stupid to get mad at someone for thier own personal opinion seeing as how u can never change it. So if anyone has a problem with what I have stated please keep your personal opinions about ME to yourself as I have not aimed this message at no one in particular so no one should take offense unless your are guilty of it yourself

Ty joker but what we are asking is there a place where we can fight our game we don't want every one to fly like us even I like taking on droppers even with my bomb either I go down or they do. That's fine with me. And others but why should every bombing mission be. Covered by fighters all.we want is a place to go and fight our type of game. But it seems that we don't know what's good for us and others do. Of this is what this game has become then there is only one option

Posts of the week are skydavis last two responses.

And no dropping is not the same thing as spawnkilling or teamkilling. Period when you have a team of both fighters and bombers there can be more team tactics. If you want head to head play the dogfight mission.

I feel sorry for those who dont care about what zuperman wants cause zuperman will do what is in the best interest to him and the best interest of the dogfight community as a whole. We all know deep down thats the fact.

Hey swop shut the hell up we all.know what zup has said so what's wrong with trying to make things good for all. And the only time you show up is when you can make more trouble for everyone. So go take a long walk off a short pier

I apologize my post may have gotten slight misconstrued from the message I was trying to convey. I agree with you 100% duraxx

I sure havent attacked anyone personally or cursed anyone out. I only voiced my support for the elaborate posts by skydavis. I sure havent caused trouble for everyone or tried to. There are many pilots who appreciate all kinds of strategy in the game and enjoy the complexities therein.

Rabbit i have always respected ur opinion even though we disagree nor have i attacked u personally. For skydavis said way more than i have. I sure havent been hostile.