I'm sorry joker but what part don't they get is it to much to ask.that we can have a head to head bombing game with out some anal person telling me that I need fighter cover. What part don't they get that all.we.ask.is for some consideration when we have a head to head game going that we be left to fight its not like we want every bombing game that way just the respect that when we have a game going we can fly that game.

Hey swop there isn't one head to head fighter saying you must fly our way. If you read my posts I agree with zup and sky. We all do. Ok that being said of we can all fly the way we want witch is good. Why when there is a game going on that's full of people.that are fighting head to head that some player can tell us we need fighter cover when we have been playing without it already hey it's one freaking game like the fighters say you don't like it find another game. The problem is the fighters tell us we want and need fighters. So isn't that them telling is how to play. Isn't that fly the way I want or leave when I've been there before they even got in the game isn't that tell me I can't fly the way I want and o must fly the way they want

Lol darrax, you have many many many contradictions in what you saying, but it's ok, see you in the sky's

Well....I'm glad you agree with SkyDavis....cause if you agree with him you agree with me....cause everything I said is basically what SkyDavis said....

but its okay....Rabbit your joy to play with and good guy. I mean that from all of the games you and I have played.

Skydavis1 wrote:

darraxx wrote: And you missed the point to you see I believe in the rules of war. If this was war not only would I kill you but I would kill every. One around you and then kill something more. But there are some that do not want to play like that. After all this is a game. And we have our own type of air to.air combat and we more than know about fighting in dog fights and we kindly ask that we can do this that's all we ask are skills are based on a different style that's all it is so why can't we enjoy a good game without fighters are object is to still win we just do it different

I got the point of what you were saying lol. Its just unrealistic what you are asking. You want a game were even one just flies head on shooting at each other. What If I want a game were my whole team drops their bombs goes on a dogfighting rampage to drive the enemy back to their base were we can camp the crap out of them till they leave then we bomb the hangers.

See what you asking for is to play the game how you want to play it and droppers are also asking to play the game how they want to play it. But in your view the dropper has to ask the bomb carrier if he can play the way he wants to play it. So my question is were did the bomb carrier become god and were did the dropper end up having to ask permission to drop and dogfight. See the cost for you to play the game how you want to (which is already the way 90% of the games are played now days) is to take away the ability of the dropper or the dogfight as I should call it to play the game the why he likes to play it.

I get you point and for the reason that is discriminating against the dogfighting style of play or the air superiority style of play I and many other consider your point your trying to get across as complete bullshit.

On a lighter note. Swop I am coming. Be their in a few seconds.

I don't think the reasonable pilots object to any style of play, but the most recent discussions have centered on advantage. I note pilots who say dropping to be "fighter escort" helps their team win games, and profess that they only drop to help the team. Funny, but I never see those guys volunteer to take their turn to carry, so what they are really doing is using their advantage to rack up kills, taking advantage of their non-dropping teammates by getting all the kills in a game and taking advantage of non-dropping opponents by using superior maneuverability to swirl and dogfight laden bombers.

The game is just that, a game, and the fact that an SE5 laden with small cooper bombs would not lose that much agility doesn't matter because the game speed of an SE5 already exceeds reality. So putting reality away, and attaching on big torpedo looking bomb that saps 30 MPH and nearly all of the agility from even the best aircraft is a distinct disadvantage. Playing in a style that maximizes the single pilots advantage over those trying to complete the mission is found annoying by many.

I target droppers first, always. If they get close I drop and engage them before they can engage me or my team at an advantage, always. If I kill them, I wait for them to return rather than continue on bombless. I will continue to target them until they leave, which is typical and reinforces the thesis that they are not playing for the team, as stated, but for themselves. The fact that you can chase most droppers away tells me that they are in it for the advantage. Frank and I chased away two of the MOST notorious droppers a few days ago, they always quit when their KDR drops below 1/1 or they spend most of their time against a skilled pilot armed with an equal aircraft.

There are plenty of good reasons to lose the payload and assume the primary role of the scout aircraft; racking up kills to pad your stats is greedy and should not be one of them. It's like only entering dogfight missions against low ranking pilots with inferior aircraft, then swirling past them to get on their tail to minimize the risk to your aircraft. Legal? Sure. You run up the tab of kills, good for you. But you are still taking advantage.

Just for information sake....I happen to carry my bomb and am not a dropper...I just support all aspects of strategy and desire no strategy to be diminished as long as its honorable and dignified aka no spawnkilling, no teamkilling, no cursing and no personal attacks...

Longrifle wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote:

darraxx wrote: And you missed the point to you see I believe in the rules of war. If this was war not only would I kill you but I would kill every. One around you and then kill something more. But there are some that do not want to play like that. After all this is a game. And we have our own type of air to.air combat and we more than know about fighting in dog fights and we kindly ask that we can do this that's all we ask are skills are based on a different style that's all it is so why can't we enjoy a good game without fighters are object is to still win we just do it different

I got the point of what you were saying lol. Its just unrealistic what you are asking. You want a game were even one just flies head on shooting at each other. What If I want a game were my whole team drops their bombs goes on a dogfighting rampage to drive the enemy back to their base were we can camp the crap out of them till they leave then we bomb the hangers.

See what you asking for is to play the game how you want to play it and droppers are also asking to play the game how they want to play it. But in your view the dropper has to ask the bomb carrier if he can play the way he wants to play it. So my question is were did the bomb carrier become god and were did the dropper end up having to ask permission to drop and dogfight. See the cost for you to play the game how you want to (which is already the way 90% of the games are played now days) is to take away the ability of the dropper or the dogfight as I should call it to play the game the why he likes to play it.

I get you point and for the reason that is discriminating against the dogfighting style of play or the air superiority style of play I and many other consider your point your trying to get across as complete bullshit.

On a lighter note. Swop I am coming. Be their in a few seconds.

I don't think the reasonable pilots object to any style of play, but the most recent discussions have centered on advantage. I note pilots who say dropping to be "fighter escort" helps their team win games, and profess that they only drop to help the team. Funny, but I never see those guys volunteer to take their turn to carry, so what they are really doing is using their advantage to rack up kills, taking advantage of their non-dropping teammates by getting all the kills in a game and taking advantage of non-dropping opponents by using superior maneuverability to swirl and dogfight laden bombers.

The game is just that, a game, and the fact that an SE5 laden with small cooper bombs would not lose that much agility doesn't matter because the game speed of an SE5 already exceeds reality. So putting reality away, and attaching on big torpedo looking bomb that saps 30 MPH and nearly all of the agility from even the best aircraft is a distinct disadvantage. Playing in a style that maximizes the single pilots advantage over those trying to complete the mission is found annoying by many.

I target droppers first, always. If they get close I drop and engage them before they can engage me or my team at an advantage, always. If I kill them, I wait for them to return rather than continue on bombless. I will continue to target them until they leave, which is typical and reinforces the thesis that they are not playing for the team, as stated, but for themselves. The fact that you can chase most droppers away tells me that they are in it for the advantage. Frank and I chased away two of the MOST notorious droppers a few days ago, they always quit when their KDR drops below 1/1 or they spend most of their time against a skilled pilot armed with an equal aircraft.

There are plenty of good reasons to lose the payload and assume the primary role of the scout aircraft; racking up kills to pad your stats is greedy and should not be one of them. It's like only entering dogfight missions against low ranking pilots with inferior aircraft, then swirling past them to get on their tail to minimize the risk to your aircraft. Legal? Sure. You run up the tab of kills, good for you. But you are still taking advantage.

It's to easey, when some one get shoot down your scort, you must drop, and now you are the scort because you are in the sky, and your fiend now gonna by the bomber, what is the problem whit that? Sometimes you are the scort, some times you are the bomber

Longrifle wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote:

darraxx wrote: And you missed the point to you see I believe in the rules of war. If this was war not only would I kill you but I would kill every. One around you and then kill something more. But there are some that do not want to play like that. After all this is a game. And we have our own type of air to.air combat and we more than know about fighting in dog fights and we kindly ask that we can do this that's all we ask are skills are based on a different style that's all it is so why can't we enjoy a good game without fighters are object is to still win we just do it different

I got the point of what you were saying lol. Its just unrealistic what you are asking. You want a game were even one just flies head on shooting at each other. What If I want a game were my whole team drops their bombs goes on a dogfighting rampage to drive the enemy back to their base were we can camp the crap out of them till they leave then we bomb the hangers.

See what you asking for is to play the game how you want to play it and droppers are also asking to play the game how they want to play it. But in your view the dropper has to ask the bomb carrier if he can play the way he wants to play it. So my question is were did the bomb carrier become god and were did the dropper end up having to ask permission to drop and dogfight. See the cost for you to play the game how you want to (which is already the way 90% of the games are played now days) is to take away the ability of the dropper or the dogfight as I should call it to play the game the why he likes to play it.

I get you point and for the reason that is discriminating against the dogfighting style of play or the air superiority style of play I and many other consider your point your trying to get across as complete bullshit.

On a lighter note. Swop I am coming. Be their in a few seconds.

I don't think the reasonable pilots object to any style of play, but the most recent discussions have centered on advantage. I note pilots who say dropping to be "fighter escort" helps their team win games, and profess that they only drop to help the team. Funny, but I never see those guys volunteer to take their turn to carry, so what they are really doing is using their advantage to rack up kills, taking advantage of their non-dropping teammates by getting all the kills in a game and taking advantage of non-dropping opponents by using superior maneuverability to swirl and dogfight laden bombers.

The game is just that, a game, and the fact that an SE5 laden with small cooper bombs would not lose that much agility doesn't matter because the game speed of an SE5 already exceeds reality. So putting reality away, and attaching on big torpedo looking bomb that saps 30 MPH and nearly all of the agility from even the best aircraft is a distinct disadvantage. Playing in a style that maximizes the single pilots advantage over those trying to complete the mission is found annoying by many.

I target droppers first, always. If they get close I drop and engage them before they can engage me or my team at an advantage, always. If I kill them, I wait for them to return rather than continue on bombless. I will continue to target them until they leave, which is typical and reinforces the thesis that they are not playing for the team, as stated, but for themselves. The fact that you can chase most droppers away tells me that they are in it for the advantage. Frank and I chased away two of the MOST notorious droppers a few days ago, they always quit when their KDR drops below 1/1 or they spend most of their time against a skilled pilot armed with an equal aircraft.

There are plenty of good reasons to lose the payload and assume the primary role of the scout aircraft; racking up kills to pad your stats is greedy and should not be one of them. It's like only entering dogfight missions against low ranking pilots with inferior aircraft, then swirling past them to get on their tail to minimize the risk to your aircraft. Legal? Sure. You run up the tab of kills, good for you. But you are still taking advantage.

well, I do have my share of bombing (look at my stats) and I do not leave the game if someone wants to drop and chase me. I'm afraid to say that I'm not going to be chased 9th of any game. I usually quit a game for a very good reason, never because someone wants to prove I'm racking up kills and that I will quit lol:) I play the way I feel is good for the team by using my strengths. I pad users have their own strengths by head on shooting with great accuracy. I'm not going to speak for the other droppers because they can speak for themselves. I play the way I play just like the old timers Dawson , Rickenfaker, etc...back in the day we never heard such complaining as we do now. Play the game and have fun!!! Stop the whining please and enjoy the game for what it is. If you want to find a server to bomb your hangers or carriers and exclude chasers/escorts. Then choose a sever, post it on the forum that it will be for bombers only and I will respect your wishes and I will avoid that server and never play there. Maybe the other forum droppers will do the same!!! Just stop the whining!

gen~~~~~~~~jack wrote: Just stop the whining!

Did you see any whining in my post?

=£= Ziza wrote: It's to easey, when some one get shoot down your scort, you must drop, and now you are the scort because you are in the sky, and your fiend now gonna by the bomber, what is the problem whit that? Sometimes you are the scort, some times you are the bomber

This is hard to respond to given the language barrier, no offense meant as my command of your native language is not nearly as good as your is of mine, but I assume you are saying that bombers must have escorts, and I disagree, I have shot my way through and cleared for others while carrying. Bombers can escort other bombers just as effectively.

Longrifle wrote:

gen~~~~~~~~jack wrote: Just stop the whining!

Did you see any whining in my post?

Nope not really...I just chose your post to quote. I was referring to those who are whining and yall know who you are:)

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: Posts of the week are skydavis last two responses.

And no dropping is not the same thing as spawnkilling or teamkilling. Period when you have a team of both fighters and bombers there can be more team tactics. If you want head to head play the dogfight mission.

I feel sorry for those who dont care about what zuperman wants cause zuperman will do what is in the best interest to himand the best interest of the dogfight community as a whole

Yep, that's what i said.

Don't feel sorry for me. Many here worship Zup, but I find it flawed thinking. The paying customer doesn't suck up to the vendor, the vendor sucks up to the paying customer...that's the rule. That's like going off praising walmart because it had a price rollback on your favorite adult absorbent diapers when in reality, that new price is already built into their profit margin. Did Zup build a fun, interesting game? Yep, & I thank him for it, but it doesn't make him a saint. Hell, he even dropped the dastardly F-bomb on the forum, yet he punishes the foul language of others. No, I don't condone foul language since kids play, but he himself set a precedent for it, at least on the forum. This is a vendor/customer relationship, nothing more. That's why his wants are irrelevant, save for the fact that he has to do the coding for the game.

Many do believe that dropping your bomb at EOR to rack up kills (as your way of play/tactics) is not far from spawnkilling. They better player you are, the closer it gets. If you had to drop for a good reason, fought, then carried the next time around, no one would say a word. It's the ones that go into every game with the intent of nothing but dogfighting that cause the problems & it's becoming more of a problem. Several "MORAFs" (quotes are because I don't feel they fit the mold) are known for this now. Those with this MO absolutely do disrupt the game, especially for newer players. I don't expect any resolution for the issue, after all, the community endorses camping now, & that's frowned upon in EVERY other game I've played.

Changing the 2 things I posted earlier would be good for the community as a whole. Even just eliminating the performance penalty for carrying would stop the bickering & I would think that would fall in line with Zup's vaulted wants.

BTW, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I'm just trying to get the point across.

I find it interesting that im kinda singled out when we have wonderful comments from skydavis and gen jack. I personally carry but i support tactics and to eliminate tactics to take care of what you see is a problem has a. "Law of unintended consequences" of ruining the game. Its ridiculous to say that dropping is equivilent to spawnkilling. That seems so strange in light if skydavis wonderful posts.

I support zuperman because i am a paying customer and i truly believe the game is perfect as it is except for lag. As owner of the game his views DO matter. Just because some many many months he cursed doesnt diminish the wonderful work he has done to deal with the problem with the wonderful mods like gen jack, kevy, reid, j and all the others i didnt mention

I think the game is perfect except for lag. Change the performance of WWI planes to something unrealistic that didnt occur in WwI takes away from the game as well. Having a bomb should affect performance because in every aspect of war planes the weight affects performance and thats the truth

I agree with gen jack. The bickering will stop when the whining stops. Hes already doing what is best for him and the community.

Lets focus on the longest things pilots were concerned with for years spawnkilling, teamkilling and cursing.

I know im not doing a good job of explaining it skydavis said it way better than i could.

Longrifle wrote:

=£= Ziza wrote: It's to easey, when some one get shoot down your scort, you must drop, and now you are the scort because you are in the sky, and your fiend now gonna by the bomber, what is the problem whit that? Sometimes you are the scort, some times you are the bomber

This is hard to respond to given the language barrier, no offense meant as my command of your native language is not nearly as good as your is of mine, but I assume you are saying that bombers must have escorts, and I disagree, I have shot my way through and cleared for others while carrying. Bombers can escort other bombers just as effectively.

Effectively? 150 kills with 80 deaths and almost an hour per game? That's no effectively . And in my past post, I respond you your idea " all droppers just make stats" well, I say again, the rol of fighter must be one rol of all players in your team, some times you are the bomber and one of your friends must be the fighter, and when the enemy fighter shoot down yours, you can drop and your friend gonna be the bomber and you the fighter

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: I find it interesting that im kinda singled out when we have wonderful comments from skydavis and gen jack. I personally carry but i support tactics and to eliminate tactics to take care of what you see is a problem has a. "Law of unintended consequences" of ruining the game. Its ridiculous to say that dropping is equivilent to spawnkilling. That seems so strange in light if skydavis wonderful posts.

Not sigling you out, just responding to your posts as you have done to mine. I didn't say dropping was equal to sk, I said it was close, & the better you are, the closer it gets.

I support zuperman because i am a paying customer and i truly believe the game is perfect as it is except for lag. As owner of the game his views DO matter. Just because some many many months he cursed doesnt diminish the wonderful work he has done to deal with the problem with the wonderful mods like gen jack, kevy, reid, j and all the others i didnt mention

You can work it that way if you want, but I expect Zup to support me. If he doesn't, I'll move on & leave a bad rating on the game. His views only matter to the pojnt where he has to figure out if requests can be coded & fit into the genre of WWI. No doubt he changes things unilaterally, but most changes should come from the community as paying customers. In that regard, the newest player has equal say with the longest playing guy & the one atop the leaderboard.

I think the game is perfect except for lag. Change the performance of WWI planes to something unrealistic that didnt occur in WwI takes away from the game as well. Having a bomb should affect performance because in every aspect of war planes the weight affects performance and thats the truth

This game is virtually devoid of realistic flight characteristics of WWI aircraft, so that's a moot point. Did WWI planes get repaired in flight after dropping on the target? Did they fly into battle from a modern carrier? Could they shoot that long range head on shot t a speck to begin with? Did they have unlimited fuel? Nope. There's a lot of artistic license in the game already, geared more towards playability than realism, I'm sure.

I agree with gen jack. The bickering will stop when the whining stops. Hes already doing what is best for him and the community.

Getting a little tired of the whining thing. This is an opposing view from many players. Maybe Rabbit came across a little rough, but if you can't state your mind, what's the point? Every time you complain about spawnkillers or team killers, you're whining then, & every post in the blacklist is whining too. Hell, every anti-whine post is a post whining about whining, is it not? Is it good for the community to be divided? Nope. Removing the bomb penalty will close this dead horse issue forever. Done & done! I should probably make a formal request for it.

Lets focus on the longest things pilots were concerned with for years spawnkilling, teamkilling and cursing.

That, & any other issue a player proposes.

I know im not doing a good job of explaining it skydavis said it way better than i could.

I get your point, just asking for equal consideration.

(My comments in bold)

Had quite the game of btc this morning... Me and one other vs. five. I got 21 kills, 7 deaths, 6 bombs, and won without dropping early or being escorted once.

Well you were singling me out cause not much of what i said was different originally than what sky Davis said.

Spawnkilling and dropping arent even in same breath. Come on. I just want a game without lag the rest is a great game. I dont want zuperman distracted by things that follow the law of unintended consequences of diminishing tactics.

Zuperman went into full detail how much of the games flight statistics are as realistic as possible there are some things for game play but nothing to diminish tactics like its being suggested.

Removing the bomb penalty diminishes the realistic performance of the plane because everyone knows that carrying a bomb diminishes the speed of the plane and thats the truth. I believe zuperman successfully defended the physics of the game in a previous post long ago. I support him and he already whas enough stuff on his plate than to hear a bunch of whining

Everyone knows spawnkilling and cursing is unaccecptible. Its not whining to point it out cause everyone is in agreement. However to suggest changes in performance of game tactics etc. is whining.

Im sorry tuck you dont appreciate a great game for what it is and feel the need to overly demand stuff of zuperman when the game is great as it is minus the lag.

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: Well you were singling me out cause not much of what i said was different originally than what sky Davis said.

Spawnkilling and dropping arent even in same breath. Come on. I just want a game without lag the rest is a great game. I dont want zuperman distracted by things that follow the law of unintended consequences of diminishing tactics.

Zuperman went into full detail how much of the games flight statistics are as realistic as possible there are some things for game play but nothing to diminish tactics like its being suggested.

Removing the bomb penalty diminishes the realistic performance of the plane because everyone knows that carrying a bomb diminishes the speed of the plane and thats the truth. I believe zuperman successfully defended the physics of the game in a previous post long ago. I support him and he already whas enough stuff on his plate than to hear a bunch of whining

Everyone knows spawnkilling and cursing is unaccecptible. Its not whining to point it out cause everyone is in agreement. However to suggest changes in performance of game tactics etc. is whining.

Im sorry tuck you dont appreciate a great game for what it is and feel the need to overly demand stuff of zuperman when the game is great as it is minus the lag.

how come any time there's a big debate, you take sides than claim we're personally attacking you, not your stance? My pinky is getting a nervous twitch just thinking of you

I never said he was personally attacking me.

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: I never said he was personally attacking me.

oh. My bad. "singling you out"

For what it's worth:

*[M] McFate wrote: Official Notice:


Further explanation of :

121st Misfit's Squadron rule # 12

12: Always carry a bomb in bombing missions!
(Only drop under extreme circumstances)


This is a “squad” rule, adopted by the 121st Misfits in an effort to promote game play which is fair and focused on the mission for games which require bombing (hangars or carriers) in order to win.



(There are no official Dogfight rules requiring anyone to ever carry a bomb and the 121st Misfits Squad does not have any special authority with the game maker.)


This rule is not necessary for more than 90% of DogFight players. The issue is that pilots who drop their bomb gain speed and maneuverability, thereby gaining a significant fighting advantage over those still carrying bombs which, after all, are necessary in order to win the game. Some pilots seem to have little regard for trying to “win” the mission and instead seem happy to “pad their stats” by relentlessly preying on the slower moving red bombers. Some players do this so effectively that it can seem “abusive”, especially when done to lower rank/newer players. The 121st does not support this behavior and anyone seeking the highest possible kill-to-death ratio (KDR, K/D) over a win for the team and a good game for all, should seek camaraderie elsewhere.


The case can be made for sound tactics with which a team consisting of bombers and dropper/chasers/escorts can be very effective at destroying the target. I sincerely believe that when “squad wars” comes many of these issues will be reevaluated. When teams can be arranged and sides can be chosen the game will take on a very different dynamic. Unfortunately, the way the game currently works with all of it’s random team selection, the constantly unbalanced games and the inability to choose your match, makes it so this rule helps promote game play that is more enjoyable in general.

If you see other players, red or blue, needlessly dropping feel free to remind them that bombs are necessary to win but don’t make a scene out of complaining. Don’t whine! It is bad form and reflects poorly on the squad. . Remember that everyone has the option to play the game as they see fit and some don’t agree with rule # 12. If you don’t like the way someone is flying show them why it is a bad idea. Sure some will have some advanced skills but most of the “stat padding” players will soon leave to seek easier prey. If they don’t, feel free to leave the game. I suggest avoiding this as much as possible because it rewards the jerks, but then, why should you have to put up with it? If the dropper is blue you can leave (let them know why?) or choose to stay and bomb.



.

So, when are circumstances “extreme” enough to justify dropping bombs on anything other than a hangar or carrier? Judge for yourself how your actions will further the game objective. I’m sure there will be many replies in support of, and in opposition to these positions but here is a list of situations which qualify:



1. Taking out a tank. This is the only reason that doesn’t “waste” the bomb. It’s probably best to try to shoot a tank and save your bomb incase you miss. (There are some pilots who can take you air-to-air with a bomb but it’s definitely the rare exception.)

2. To take out Sneakers. Having a red suddenly appear directly overhead or behind you from the East or West is definitely an “extreme circumstance" and often an imminent threat. You need to do everything you can to take these guys out ASAP.

3. To evict a camper. If red has set up “camp” by flying bombless over your base you need every advantage you can get to take them out now! When you spawn, set your brake and rev up your throttle. You can touch and drag the screen to see where they are if you think they are preparing to spawn kill you. If you time it right you can usually find time to release the brakes, pop into the air and drop before they can get you. A turning fight is always better than being a sitting duck. Try to lead them away from the base so spawning blues can have a better chance to get airborne. Also; if a red has just bombed a hangar (whether they are trying to leave or planning to camp) You may assume they are going to try to shoot you down. You are perfectly justified in dropping until they have been shot down or chased off.

4. Confronting a red dropper/chaser. There are going to be reds that drop. There is no good reason for you to be their punching bag. If they insist on playing the game that way, change your tactics. If you face an impassable red chaser you may want to take the opportunity to do some sneaks. It can be tough to coordinate with your team but it can win the game. (Team chat please, zup)

5. Confronting a wave of reds when they are on final approach. Sometimes they all come over the last hill at the same time. At that point defence is top priority.

.
Once you’ve dropped and taken care of the reds, (or they finally ran out of ammo) you have some options. People will have differing view points about this. Some say you should immediately land and reload. I think there are more things to consider. If you are at the blue base, no reds in sight and your teammates are already far afield, sure, by all means land and reload. If reds are in sight, forget it. By the time you’re ready to get back in the air the reds could be shooting you before you are airborne. If you are in red territory and there are other blues who have bombs you can chase or “escort”. Do everything you can to protect or draw fire away from the blue bombers. You can be a very effective protector/distraction without camping directly over the enemy base. Chances are someone will complain. Just don’t hang over the red base camping or spawnkilling while there are no inbound bombers.

(and then of course):

6. When heavily outnumbered, when you’re down to 2 vs 5 or worse. Take it straight or feel free to drop and hang in there as best you can until help arrives. Some 2 vs 6 games can be incredible! It can really get your adrenaline pumping!


This is really just all a matter of etiquette. It’s a case of doing unto others as you would have done onto yourself. The 121st Misfits encourage their members to extend this courtesy to the DogFight community. (Other Squads are welcome to adopt this in whole or in part.)



*[M] McFate
Media Officer
121st Misfit’s Squadron

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: Well you were singling me out cause not much of what i said was different originally than what sky Davis said.

Spawnkilling and dropping arent even in same breath. Come on. I just want a game without lag the rest is a great game. I dont want zuperman distracted by things that follow the law of unintended consequences of diminishing tactics.

Zuperman went into full detail how much of the games flight statistics are as realistic as possible there are some things for game play but nothing to diminish tactics like its being suggested.

Removing the bomb penalty diminishes the realistic performance of the plane because everyone knows that carrying a bomb diminishes the speed of the plane and thats the truth. I believe zuperman successfully defended the physics of the game in a previous post long ago. I support him and he already whas enough stuff on his plate than to hear a bunch of whining

Everyone knows spawnkilling and cursing is unaccecptible. Its not whining to point it out cause everyone is in agreement. However to suggest changes in performance of game tactics etc. is whining.

Im sorry tuck you dont appreciate a great game for what it is and feel the need to overly demand stuff of zuperman when the game is great as it is minus the lag.

That's like a personal attack, don't you think? Now you're coming across. Sorry you feel it necessary to suppress opposing views of "your" game in a debate & call it whining & you're willing to overlook some realism points, but not others. What is the weight of this bomb anyway? Many dropped in WWI would only be the diffetence in a skinny & a plump pilot & were hand dropped by the pilot. The plane would never even know it was aboard. It isn't like you have a Mk84 strapped to it, so it's possible that the performance hit of carrying is greatly exaggerated to begin with.

Well, I'm a whiner because I disagree with your views & I'm suggesting a middle ground compromise. I suppose droppers are whining about lowered aircraft perfomance from carrying that bomb too, huh? I also didn't realize you were zup's keeper & don't want him distracted by things YOU don't like. HE SHOULD BE DISTRACTED BY ANYTHING THAT IS AN ISSUE TO THE COMMUNITY. This is a devisive subject, so it shoild be addressed.

BTW, Zup posted that he's got changes coming. Better call & tell him to stop because the game is already perfect. Geez...

I just can't understand why so many says " droppers only want make stads" , like a say, again, the rol of fighter should not always be the same pilot, the role of escort must be sandwiched between team members

=£= Ziza wrote: I just can't understand why so many says " droppers only want make stads" , like a say, again, the rol of fighter should not always be the same pilot, the role of escort must be sandwiched between team members

Bingo, you can't understand.

Tuck i havent done any personal attack or have belittled you in any way. Again why not address sky Davis and gen jack or ziza comments as opposed to just my own? I do carry my bomb but i dont want tactics to be diminished. If zuperman wants to chabge the game thats his perogative for being owner of the game. I will reserve judgement until after changes are made. I think currently and personally the game is perfect minus some tiny glitches and lag. I like the fact the physics of the game while not perfect are as close to life as possible but thats my opinion. I respect yours but i think there so many unintended consequences that hurt the game. I stand by the current performance with bomb and without bomb cause it matches the physics in real life. Having bomb does have the current speed effect and it matches late WWI performance . I never personally attacked you. I think this issue shouldnt be decisive. I dont see how dropping to protect bombers makes people bent out of shape when in real life that was done tons of times.

Tuck wrote:

=£= Ziza wrote: I just can't understand why so many says " droppers only want make stads" , like a say, again, the rol of fighter should not always be the same pilot, the role of escort must be sandwiched between team members

Bingo, you can't understand.

puro sarcasmo mal usado contigo

PD: its funny when someone say "dropers are better than some one whit bomb", because with, or with out bomb, all pilots made face to face, and we know face to face its more easey whit a bomb in your plane, then there we can see a huge contradiction because dropers make face to face also, but do not want to change their tactics, also does not release pilots pumps. because apparently die many times is "effective". My only tactic throughout the game, "I assume that only have 1 life " and that results in a more effective team, because if everyone thought the same, just not play with the fate of being shot down by anyone on a face to face

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: Tuck i havent done any personal attack or have belittled you in any way. Again why not address sky Davis and gen jack or ziza comments as opposed to just my own? I do carry my bomb but i dont want tactics to be diminished. If zuperman wants to chabge the game thats his perogative for being owner of the game. I will reserve judgement until after changes are made. I think currently and personally the game is perfect minus some tiny glitches and lag. I like the fact the physics of the game while not perfect are as close to life as possible but thats my opinion. I respect yours but i think there so many unintended consequences that hurt the game. I stand by the current performance with bomb and without bomb cause it matches the physics in real life. Having bomb does have the current speed effect and it matches late WWI performance . I never personally attacked you. I think this issue shouldnt be decisive. I dont see how dropping to protect bombers makes people bent out of shape when in real life that was done tons of times.

I sure read it that way. Obviously, this exchange applies to all. Like earlier in the thread, I replied to your post & it went from there.

The only tactic that no bomb penalty would diminish would be leveling the playing field, nothing more. The benefit would be uniting players & moving on to something different. There would still be discriminators...better internet service, better device, better plane/upgrades, more skill, etc. Call it dropping, escorting, stat padding, it doesn't matter...the results are the same. Whoever does it is looking for an advantage over others & calling it tactics. The response is to be good enough to kill a dropper. Well, they should be good enough to kill with a bomb. Remember, we're only talking about those who drop as their MO, not those who had to drop for cause. I'm not really sure how you can't see that a dropper moraf railing on a few group captains & wing commanders isn't akin to spawnkilling. Maybe you can ask them how they feel about it. I've even seen a moraf do it & laugh about it.

If bombers dropped regularly, they'd be irrelevant to the war effort, much as they are here. Please give a reference for your last sentence.

Tuck wrote: Remember, we're only talking about those who drop as their MO, not those who had to drop for cause. I'm not really sure how you can't see that a dropper moraf railing on a few group captains & wing commanders isn't akin to spawnkilling. Maybe you can ask them how they feel about it. I've even seen a moraf do it & laugh about it.

I certainly get that, but I'm afraid many players out there see no difference in dropping for a reason and dropping to rack up kills. I've been called so many names by high ranking pilots for dropping to engage a plane that made it past me, dropping at the end of my runway to catch that tank sooner than later, and so on. I've even been asked to "play fair" by a top ranked player because I was dropping to defend against 6 reds.

My favorite is when a player who is nowhere near being in range to see the action at the enemy base tells me "Stop Spawnkilling!" or "Let them up" even though I'm taking them all out head on.

=£= Ziza wrote:

Tuck wrote:

=£= Ziza wrote: I just can't understand why so many says " droppers only want make stads" , like a say, again, the rol of fighter should not always be the same pilot, the role of escort must be sandwiched between team members

Bingo, you can't understand.

puro sarcasmo mal usado contigo

PD: its funny when someone say "dropers are better than some one whit bomb", because with, or with out bomb, all pilots made face to face, and we know face to face its more easey whit a bomb in your plane, then there we can see a huge contradiction because dropers make face to face also, but do not want to change their tactics, also does not release pilots pumps. because apparently die many times is "effective". My only tactic throughout the game, "I assume that only have 1 life " and that results in a more effective team, because if everyone thought the same, just not play with the fate of being shot down by anyone on a face to face

Thank you for admitting that your personal stats are your driving factor in the game as opposed to protecting the "bombers." This is the reason for the derogatory term of dropper...point illustrated. Deaths don't matter, the mission matters. Be happy being competitive & focus on the mission.

Escorting is an important tactic in the history of warfare and to suggest changes to remove it altogether seems very strange to me. Again i carry but i recognize the importance in a bombing mission for escorts of bombs and it IS part of the mission with the alternating escort then carry then escort rotation. The mission matters and eacorts are part of that mission. I have no idea how you took my statements as attacking you personally when i never cursed or called any one a smart(Whatever). Also i dont understand why this point and counterpoint you are pursuing when skydavis and others are pretty much saying the same thing.

I definately didnt attack the person and thats the fact and anyone can see that i didnt. in light of basically being cursed out or cursing used in reference to a person.