Hi there!

We are on our third week of the kickstarter campaign, and obviously we will not make it unless we get some big miracle going on.
www.kickstarter.com/projects/echoboomapps/dogfight-elite

This is the Dogfight community and we don't need to sweet-talk about it. I'm completely honest and open. We are ok with people not wanting to pledge, but I see lot of negative comments that are just excuses for not recognizing you just don't want to pledge and period.

#1 excuse: why should I pledge for Dogfight Elite when the current version of the game has so many bugs?
#1 answer: Because the current version of the game has so many bugs!

It is idiotic (yes, idiotic), to think that we can fix bugs for 1400+ different phone devices of Android, also for iPad 2, 3, 4, iphone 3gs, 4, 4s, 5, amazon kindle... and on top of that add new features, take care of the forum, etc etc... with ZERO budget.
To me it seems such a non-sense to even arguee this that it amaze me to no limit that people even dare to make that excuse for not pledging.

The #1 reason, for gods sake, THE NUMBER ONE reason for doing a kickstarter is because we want to fix the current bugs and improve on all things that players are requesting. Many current players understood this. MANY just look for an excuse to not even dare to (god forbid!) pledge the value of a coffee to help fix those problems they complain about.

#2 excuse: but I already paid for this game once, why should i pay again?
#2 answer: first, you are not paying again for the same game, you would be pledging for a new game AND that will also help fix all current issues of the game. Some of you put a considerable amount of money on the game, but MOST (specially those making up this excuse) paid ZERO or $1. As time progressed, new devices come out (probably you've bought a new phone during this time) and although the game worked perfect on a Samsung Galaxy S2, it does fail on a Samsung Galaxy S3 because the game was designed when that device was not out. So we need to keep updating and fixing stuff that are not our fault (we can't predict when samsung or any other manufacturer will change the core functionality of a device). In short, it cost lot of time, money and resources to keep the game up to date. And we haven't even gone into the time, money and resources of releasing new stuff yet!


So, in all honesty, if you don't want to pledge it is perfectly fine, but don't bullshit your way into making believe you have a point. If you've been playing for months Dogfight, also joining squads, posting on this forum, and you are not able to even put $1 on a pledge... there is no excuse you can put up to not pledge even $1! Dogfight is the only flight simulator out there that has never tried to milk your money away and allows you to play for months for almost no cost!

We are over 3.5 million Dogfight players, up to now, only 150 people on that list has pledged and I see over 30000 people playing EVERY SINGLE DAY, FOR FREE.

This is not a lecture, this is reality about human nature. Stop making up excuses!

ps. a very tired person who is answering over 70 emails per day with "i forgot my password and made up my email so i can't recover it" and not even one of those are paying $1 at the moment. In 9 days, if we don't arrive to the target, there is a very high possibility we will shut down Dogfight FOREVER because we simply cannot afford to maintain it. I hope I made the point across and don't get another bullshit email explaining that our current version crash so they don't want to help fix it with $1. Even a complete stranger gave me $1 for a soda! Are you going to keep making up excuses to avoid helping?

I goto say i totaly agree with you Z and I in all honesty would pledge if it werent for the fact that I dont have a darn credit card. Keep up the hard work on the game/game and I hope to see you in the game some time.

K tomorrow I'll get a pre-paid card, and then donate. I promise

I would just like to say that even if you don't reach your target, Joaquin, I would still like to turn my pledge
into a donation if it helps your cause and helps in any way with elite.
I, personally, only started playing a few weeks ago but I have had so much fun with dogfight, I believe it is
certainly worth every penny/cent.

Good luck, mate !

Totally agree with your post and I'm very disappointed that the 'community' here haven't been more supportive. Many of us do appreciate what you and your team do and have done.
I am also coming to the conclusion that many of the people we think we know aren't who we thought at all.so no wonder its going up so slow.
I hope no one from my energy provider are reading this but my 'pledge' was so much more than we could afford, to the point the gas and elec wouldn't be getting paid. Guess now so many people couldn't be bothered to help that ill be paying the bills after all.

Sorry to Zup and Team.

P.s to those who have chose not to pledge, have you atleast emailed, tweeted or passed the kickstarter link to anyone who might possibly pledge.

oh, I'm bored of my own voice again now,

Back to my hole!

zuperman wrote:
We are over 3.5 million Dogfight players, up to now, only 150 people on that list has pledged and I see over 30000 people playing EVERY SINGLE DAY, FOR FREE.

In 9 days, if we don't arrive to the target, there is a very high possibility we will shut down Dogfight FOREVER because we simply cannot afford to maintain it. I hope I made the point across and don't get another bullshit email explaining that our current version crash so they don't want to help fix it with $1. Even a complete stranger gave me $1 for a soda! Are you going to keep making up excuses to avoid helping?

Just think about it, If all these 30000 frequent players pledged $5 each then we get the current game fixed and a new Dogfight Elite!!!

Please dont shut down Z what will I do without dogfight? I'll gladly contribute to keep Dogfight running but please dont shut down

111th Mas

Realy hope this game doesnt shut down its the best game out there.

This is the first I've heard that the original may be shut down. I must have missed it somewhere.
It was 5 am here when I read it. Made some wake-up calls.....

I kicked in my $500 pledge at the beginning....
wanted to do more but you caught me in the middle of trying to sell a house and move...
Mrs Dent said no more than 500.... Then I told her You were from spain and built like Captain America.....She almost donated the F*****g house......


All joke's aside... I hope you make it Z.... good luck to you and your team...

no credit card but i will ask others to donate and spread the word.

i cant believe the small number of players that have pledged. so many play this great game for hours each week and won't give a few $€¥£.

Zup,

Of course you are correct, and you have described me exactly. Rest assured, I will donate at least the cost of a large table of coffees before this over. I was really hoping to donate $300, but I literally can't play the game on my Samsung s3, and worry that I'll be watching DF Elite from the sidelines, or on my sluggish old-tech old phone that I use now just to complete a game, but it hurts my eyes cuz it's so small and shaky. The $300 will go to a Note II or Note III when that comes out.

But of course, I will dig deep in this last week and support a project I believe in! It just won't be as deep as I had hoped!

Manfred

OK I had no idea it was this critical and I hope this starts the pledge drive of the century! Now, I totally hear what you are saying Z but I feel that the price model is partly to blame since I got my $3 out of the game way long time ago! I think the game must be a subscription instead of flat fee, say $5/ year or whatever is needed to provide funding to last the life of the game, whether it be Dogfight original or Elite. Give people a 30 day free trial and after that only allow practice missions if you don't pay. So if the choice is shut down Dogfight altogether or pay an annual fee I know I would pay the fee right now as would most other addicts..uh players! I think the people you see pledging, are like myself, this is another home for them kinda like your favorite hangout, and are most likely willing to donate some money to help and fix what we have without a promise of a new game. So these are my thoughts of how it fix the issue:

- ask for donations for regular Dogfight and use that money to convert the system to handle subscriptions. I would be happy with just a t shirt to say I helped save Dogfight but if you need the money give me nothing I don't mind.
- use the subscription money to repair dogfight original over time
- once Dogfight is fixed use the subscription money after that to start the foundation of Elite and ask for pledge again

Now of course I don't design games or know anything about this I am just tying to look at it logically and trying to help. Without a constant flow of cash I don't know how the game will survive long term.

@Manfred, unity got back to me yesterday. I've been working on an update like crazy for the past 5 hours, hopefully that finally fixes the sgs3 issue. It will be fixed, but I depend on unity for that one.

Z, I can certainly understand your frustration. Sometimes we have big dreams but it can be hard to make them real on our schedule. When you began this DF Elite push it certainly seemed reasonable, given the total number of players, that the small pledges could add up to reach your needed total. For whatever reason- human nature, lack of communication, over expectations - nothing short of a biblical miracle will get us to that total. I hope you don't let your dream die. Pick yourself up and figure out other ways to make it happen. Paul, Wig, and, I am sure, many others, have offered constructive criticism to guide this effort. Pay attention, learn, and try again. Make us pay for a debugged, improved version of DF. Make us pay for separate accounts. Set up an account for folks who would contribute to make this a better game. Reach out in the gaming community to better sell your game and your vision. Sell T-shirts or coffee mugs. I am no marketing genius, but you obviously do have a market. I wish you continued success with growing it to the point that your vision can be real. Whatever happens, Z, its been fun!

thanks btschuman,
the disappointment is that i wanted the project to be a community thing. Since so many ask for not paying, not getting charged unnecessarily and so on. So I was expecting that when we needed help, the community would jump in. Some did, in a very big way, some in smaller ways, and many did not moving a finger and only complained.

So at this point, we have to see, that either the community reacts, or Dogfight is simply dead.

The other option is going the route of most games: charging and if you can't pay, leave. This is sad, but from the reaction of the community it seems that's the only way to go or we are toasted. We have 9 days to prove all naysayers wrong. We'll see but my hopes on it are really really down at this point. I get dozens of emails a day on why they don't pledge and asking for things (i check their account and they haven't even bought the game in 4 months playing!) So what's the way to go? Charge $1 per incidence I solve? Subscription based system? Money per every single airplane in game? because I don't want to do that, but definitely that's where it's getting pushed.

Z, I think you do have a "community thing" here. But what is apparent is that there are many levels of commitment in that community. Sure, keep the free option out there so players can get a taste of how good it is. But, I see most of these free options usually bury players in revenue generating ads. Then, determine a fair price to offer the game to serious players. $5 is very cheap for a good simulator game...the trick is to find the price ceiling that gives you a fair profit while still being competitive with other apps. And, I still think you can charge for 'extras'. Multiple accounts, paint jobs on planes, etc., etc. My one warning would be to avoid "selling" hyper performance planes to the point that winning is simply a byproduct of purchase. I can think of nothing that would undermine the realism and credibility of the DF system more....Again, all the best!

Manfred wrote: Zup,

Of course you are correct, and you have described me exactly. Rest assured, I will donate at least the cost of a large table of coffees before this over. I was really hoping to donate $300, but I literally can't play the game on my Samsung s3, and worry that I'll be watching DF Elite from the sidelines, or on my sluggish old-tech old phone that I use now just to complete a game, but it hurts my eyes cuz it's so small and shaky. The $300 will go to a Note II or Note III when that comes out.

But of course, I will dig deep in this last week and support a project I believe in! It just won't be as deep as I had hoped!

Manfred

I think I've been looking at this incorrectly. I've been looking at what money I have budgeted, rather than what has been provided. Maybe some of you have as well.

We've been getting a practically free game for years, or months depending how long you've been playing Dogfight. I don't even remember what I paid, but it was a nit. What would I have paid for the game if it were a regular subscription? What would you have paid? Back when I was using my old HTC phone and totally addicted to Dogfight, I would have paid the purchase fee every month if I had to. Things are a little different now that I have the Samsung phone, but there was a time that I couldn't put the game down.

I'm in awe of those who are carrying the load with mega-donations! For the others, myself included, we are the huge number of people who should reach back in our minds about what we would have paid over and above what has been charged. Put THAT toward DF Elite, which will result in improvements to the original game, and be another can't-put-it-down game itself.

Ok, off to the kickstarter site.

Manfred

EDIT: Doh, can't donate on Amazon with my ccard, tied up with my wife's login info. It's ok, she's generous!

like I said a one time dollar fee for server maintanence and dfe is done.no need for the money already pledged and all can afford the dollar.

I attempted $100. It locked up on me, so I have no idea if it went through or not. Now I'm concerned about multiple billing. If the pledge site has technical issues, that ain't gonna help you. I like Kane's idea of a dollar server fee. But, I'd like the decent plane too... I guess I'm going to have to figure out if it "took" or not now.

Jack, if it took you will have a confirmation email.

Zupe,

I have to admit the first time I read your first post on this thread I turned red and said a lot of words I cannot post here. "How dare you?" Was my first impression. Luckily I take that little pill every morning that stops me from strangling the crap out of stupid people and keeps me out of jail and I didn't blast a reply. I've read it twice more since and see it as a call to action now. I can understand the frustration and accept your choice of words.

I pledged what I thought was a generous amount and then doubled it a couple of days later. Your post wasn't aimed at me.

I have been flying under squad tags and names to encourage folks to visit the kickstarter page. I've invited folks in-game and have gotten a few to come. I will continue to do so and wish the best of luck.

To you and your team, know that we do appreciate your hard work and dedication. Keep your chins up and know there is an awful lot guys pulling for you and cheering you on.

OK. amendment to my last post..those that get those items as if the funding went thru..huh/ . look at the alternative

Joaquin, to be honest, 195 pledges from a Forum community this large, it is like a huge slap in the face!
Sure some can not contribute for various reasons, I am sure everyone can understand that and even sympathize with that. To be honest that ratio versus the backers, I do not understand. I am not here to point fingers or to point out people or to even upset community members. I am speaking purely out of the context of we as a community as a whole.

Not everyone feels pledging to Dogfight Elite is their responsibility or should be done. That is in the developers hands and it his responsibility. To that I say WRONG!

Joaquin(The Developer) is asking for our help, for our support! What developer do you know? Do you know any developers from any of the games you have purchased???? Have you had any direct contact with the developer??? Has a Developer ever contacted you saying I am going to start developing a new game and for so much of a pledge to this project I will offer the following??? For X amount you will even get input into help developing the game.

Are there any glitches in the current game, sure, are they bad enough for you to not stick around and see the improvements or to even stop playing the game all together??? 98% of this forum does not stop playing, they report their problems,they get feedback, they even get to vent, they also get help from each other.

Do you do the same in return when a developer asks you for his help? For those of you that are in a squad, or even in general, what type of friendships have you developed from, as so many have lately said, "just a game"?

This is food for thought, digest it, then tell us how this is not up to us or how this is not an insult.

How many of the younger generation pre-buys games with the offer of a lower price or for an extra incentive offer??? Nothing different here, same concept different format.

So before we talk about how we go forward if it does not happen, think about how do we make this Pledge work so it does happen.

@jack, you should receive a confirmation email otherwise it didn't go through. Also it can't double charge you because it doesn't charge any amount until we reach the goal. That day it charges all pledges otherwise it never charges anything

Roughly 195 some odd pilots have donated add that to the roughly 200 some odd pilots that have good reasons not to and it still doesn't add up to what I've seen and heard say the loved the game! $10 from all the regular players covers it! Come on Pilots make a difference!

Skies of Glory wrote: I goto say i totaly agree with you Z and I in all honesty would pledge if it werent for the fact that I dont have a darn credit card. Keep up the hard work on the game/game and I hope to see you in the game some time.

Another BS excuse. Go buy a preloaded gift card at any grocery store!!

Z, for future reference you might want to track the number of players who actually read the forum. It is easy to preach to the choir...it is a tougher sell to all the others...The one thing we all have in common is the main page when we boot up the game...

I am sure you have a better idea than me as to what is and is not possible, but it would sure help to have some way to reach all those players who don't access the forum...

Btschuman, if you have an android you should be seeing the dogfight elite banner pretty often in the game

Dogfight Elite banner is there on my android Phone.....

I agree with you completely and I have also been very disappointed with the lack of support. I pledged $125 the day I found about Elite and I also probably bought $20 worth of money in the game when I first started playing multiplayer, partly to get better planes faster and partly just to contribute for what I think is a great game at a very low price. I would kick in a few bucks regularly on the existing game if there was anything left to buy and I suggest that you consider adding things that can be bought. A free game with minor issues is great, but a reasonably priced game that is always improving is even better.