zuperman wrote: Btschuman, if you have an android you should be seeing the dogfight elite banner pretty often in the game

iPad I ...

By way of clarification, Z. It is not that I am not disappointed in the progress of the DF Elite fundraising. Hell, I'm currently unemployed and I gave as much as I could without the Mrs. beating me about the head and shoulders. I have also randomly bought points here and there with the hope that might help fund DF. My point is that there should be lessons learned here so your vision and dream do materialize. Bitching about and carping at free riders isn't likely to get you there. Figuring out how to better encourage present and future players to pay a fair price for a great product will... Thanks.

btschuman, i got your point, but it's not bitching. I had to make a stand because I was seeing those people that looked for excuses, convincing others not to pledge so that I would fix issues faster. I had to make it clear that the reason things are not fixed is because there is no budget, so not pledging the only thing that provokes is: not fixing and shutting down the game forever.

there is a second part, when i mentioned this that there was no money for me to fix it all on several occasions before kickstarter, many of this same people that now are not pledging, told me that I should create a way for them to put $ to help me out. In fact, it became such a request and so often asked, that I began looking into kickstarter. Now that I did what people were suggesting, these same guys look away like it never happened. So it's not bitching, I'm stating the fact of the situation. If 1% of the registered players put $1, the project would be funded. Unfortunately, 150 out of 3.5 million is not even 1%. This would be fine if that people that is not pledging did not complain and ask for stuff constantly, but they do and they even get rude when I delay more than a couple hours to reply.

So my options are very clear, if there is no funding, there is no game. It is as simple as that. I can't keep running it out of my pocket. It's reality.

I donated as much as i could zuperman for now I might do more later

zuperman wrote: btschuman, i got your point, but it's not bitching. I had to make a stand because I was seeing those people that looked for excuses, convincing others not to pledge so that I would fix issues faster. I had to make it clear that the reason things are not fixed is because there is no budget, so not pledging the only thing that provokes is: not fixing and shutting down the game forever.

there is a second part, when i mentioned this that there was no money for me to fix it all on several occasions before kickstarter, many of this same people that now are not pledging, told me that I should create a way for them to put $ to help me out. In fact, it became such a request and so often asked, that I began looking into kickstarter. Now that I did what people were suggesting, these same guys look away like it never happened. So it's not bitching, I'm stating the fact of the situation. If 1% of the registered players put $1, the project would be funded. Unfortunately, 150 out of 3.5 million is not even 1%. This would be fine if that people that is not pledging did not complain and ask for stuff constantly, but they do and they even get rude when I delay more than a couple hours to reply.

Z, no one in their right mind should ask you to do all this for nothing. If DF has to go down due to insufficient funding, so be it. I do hope you are able to capitalize another effort in the future that provides for a sufficient, ongoing revenue stream that rewards your effort while offering this much in demand product. All the best, Amigo...

zuperman wrote: btschuman, i got your point, but it's not bitching. I had to make a stand because I was seeing those people that looked for excuses, convincing others not to pledge so that I would fix issues faster. I had to make it clear that the reason things are not fixed is because there is no budget, so not pledging the only thing that provokes is: not fixing and shutting down the game forever.

there is a second part, when i mentioned this that there was no money for me to fix it all on several occasions before kickstarter, many of this same people that now are not pledging, told me that I should create a way for them to put $ to help me out. In fact, it became such a request and so often asked, that I began looking into kickstarter. Now that I did what people were suggesting, these same guys look away like it never happened. So it's not bitching, I'm stating the fact of the situation. If 1% of the registered players put $1, the project would be funded. Unfortunately, 150 out of 3.5 million is not even 1%. This would be fine if that people that is not pledging did not complain and ask for stuff constantly, but they do and they even get rude when I delay more than a couple hours to reply.

So my options are very clear, if there is no funding, there is no game. It is as simple as that. I can't keep running it out of my pocket. It's reality.

I am glad you said this..... I had 2 post's typed up on this and hit cancell....Should have posted them I guess..... I have seen this many time's in game....... Pi**es me off...
I better keep quiet....

Kevy wrote: Roughly 195 some odd pilots have donated add that to the roughly 200 some odd pilots that have good reasons not to and it still doesn't add up to what I've seen and heard say the loved the game! $10 from all the regular players covers it! Come on Pilots make a difference!

This poor relationship between the huge numbers of players and the ridiculously low number of pledgers is beyond my two-neurons capacity.

And I am one that made some complainings about the fact that the current version should be fixed before the kickstart project. But despite my complainings, I pledged 25 bucks on the FIRST DAY. I am one of the first 10 people that pledged. Some days after, I raised my pledge to a 99 one (plus 15 dollars for shipment). As Richyroo, my pledge will bring me some troubles in my financial routine, but did it anyway, because I love this amazing deffective game. And I asked players around to pledge 10 bucks each. As Kevy said, if 10 k people (a fraction of the number of players) pledge 10 bucks each, it's done! But since it looks like we won't reach this miracle, a second option should be put in practice. And I strongly believe that the mohtly fee is not only the ideal second option, but even more: Z should have been used it months, years ago!
Don't you have the money? Can't you pay 2 dollars a month to play? Go elsewhere, go play "hungry" birds.
Are you whiling to pay 2 dollars a month, but don't have credit card, because you are not an adult? Pray the gods to make Z find an alternative payment method, otherwise go play sudoku.
Are you an adult, and are you addicted to DF? Pay for playing. And if, after some months paying, the game's issues aren't solved by the team, you have all the right to complain in a legitimate way, and if they don't fix it, you simply stop payment.

Simple as that, Zup! What doesn't makes sense is you complaining about "players that play for months or years for free"... Hey, the play for free because you never asked for a coin!

I am stubborn: I did my pledge, raised it, and spread the word. But I still think that, if from one side, we can't complain about DF issues because it is free, from other side Zup failed by having to work to make so much updates with no profit. Zup said twice that he is not our slaves. Of course not! But the first one to act like a slave was himself, spending so much effort for nothing. I know, he has passion, and he loves us, comunity members... But even for LOVE there is a limit, Zup!

So, please, do me a favor: if this kickstart project doesn't succeed, put this elite on a sleep for a while, focus on the current version, and stop allowing people to play it for free. We, people that REALLY LOVE the game, will keep playing it, as long as the monthly / year fee is fair priced. As a good side-effect, tons of dirty-mouths will clean of from the skies.

I suggest you open a thread to collect signatures from people that are willing to pay for a monthly fee (remember, a year-fee is nice too).

Last thing: my grandfather used to say that, sometimes, we need to go back one step, but it helps making the journey a successful one.

2 dollars per month is a fair deal, I'll pay! Count me in

You are a good man joaquin , you have given several shite loads of people a whole heap of fun and brought together thousands in friendship with this creation of yours . I hope like hell you get the funding mate but everything aside you have achieved something fongin amazing wether elite gets off the ground or not you have my respect .

Cheers!

I would gladly pay 35 dollars a year. Lets multiply it for 3.000 players, being conservative...

Edit: I pay 20 dollars a year to play chess online at www.gameknot.com. This site offers different "flavors" of membership (at different prices, of course). It is an idea...

I have two suggestions that I hope will help some.

There is a button to buy points in the game. I think everyone with a phone that has the game has a Google account where they can buy points. Add another button to donate to the game. Let people select one, five, ten, or more dollars. Just before the Kickstarter time runs out you can take all of those donations and pledge them to Kickstarter. If funding is not achieved you still have some donations to help out. I would also suggest a button on the game to buy a different shirt than what is offered in Kickstarter, cool new plane, whatever. Do an update and put a short message on the splash screen telling people about the new buttons. Do this and I will buy a shirt and/or make an additional donation and I think others will also. I was happy to pledge on Kickstarter and would be happy to give money if the Kickstarter thing does not work out.

Second suggestion is to add some recognition in the game to those that have pledged. Star by their name, cool new colored plane, whatever. Let those of us in the game see who has given support so we can thank them in the game and shoot down and sneer at those that have not.

Of course another option is to make it a sponsored game with advertizing like all the other free games. Make a payment and get it add free. Other games seem to make money that way.

Best of luck and I really do love the game and what I have seen so far of Elite.

I almost begun right now a signup on the site www.signupgenius.com, to register who and how many players are willing to pay a monthly / annual fee to keep playing the current Dogfight version online. But considering that I am only a player, and a costumer, I believe that this initiative needs to be taken by Zup's team, or a squad leader, whatever. Anyone?

Edit: perhaps 2 or more signup queries, one for each price range (say, one to register who is willing to pay 2 dollars a month, another signup to register who is about to pay 4, etc).

Im finally gettin my own muney so when i go to the bank i will put it on a card and donate. I will most likely do 25-30, cause i have to do it under the radar so mom doesnt know. Until then i will b playing the game and telling everyone dogfight is about to get shut down. That will open their eyes up to the bigger picture. Just a $5 pledge from each person can save both of these amazing games.

Just call me #200. It's a stiff price for me right now, but maybe I can talk you into a building with a Jolly Roger on it if there is any space left. Sorry, I ain't got 10 grand to promote a fake bar... Anyway, best of luck.

When I bought Dogfight originally I clicked a button saying I would pay $4.99 I believe it was a year (or maybe 6 month) SUBSCRIPTION! Something happened, I do not know what and why but it was converted into a lifetime subscription. I am assuming (using the ass word correctly) that it had something to do with how money was collected at my game store. Had that plan worked originally (yearly or bi-yearly) subscription method I believe I would still be here playing. There are more hands in the pot here than one would think and I admire Z for tackling the logistics and technological and capital forces at work here. He is the David in this story and if we could just see through for the better of us all and donate he may continue to devote his efforts on something we all love. My wishes are for Z to benefit for these efforts. I would love to see him post our next update from a yacht in the French Riviera. Good people deserve good things. I do not personally know Z even though I am a moderator. I have posted some regrettable pm's to him in my first days here at dogfight. Not knowing the amount of effort (mostly free) that he has expended for years to this game. He could type me a thousand letter WTF and we still wouldn't be even.
Now is the time to put up what you can. I realize this isn't getting to the right audience please help others and I do just that. People like us do not play this game for an arcade experience. We like the strategy and human interaction. I've played the other games and I don't care for the pay to be best then figure out that's it nothing more experience.This could be a long term social experience of game strategy. If this don't work I'm going to be stuck challenging Pedrinho to a game of chess. We all know how good his English has been getting but come on!

What about the signup idea???

Yep I got Amazon to work (thank you Mrs. Manfred) and got my pledge in.
Manfred

Kevy wrote: I've played the other games and I don't care for the pay to be best then figure out that's it nothing more experience.This could be a long term social experience of game strategy. If this don't work I'm going to be stuck challenging Pedrinho to a game of chess. We all know how good his English has been getting but come on!

Kevy, sorry, but I didn't get it. Are you agreeing with me, or are you criticizing me, or are you kidding with me?

Agreeing,picking not criticizing! Sorry if you took it wrong I'm sure you are an excellent chess player!
the vote suggestion you had was a good one it might be a little late to benefit from it now.

Oh, thanks, Kevy. I am only an average chess player.

About "voting", I think it is not too late. Kickstart's deadline is 8 days from now. In this time, Zup can measure the possibilities of the plan B, in case of Elite failure. The plan B, I insist, should be the monthly / annual fee.
OK, they can spend some time seting things up (accounts, prices, bank accounts, etc.), but it IS FEASIBLE, I believe.
Its all up to Zup's energy: I can imagine how stressed he is with this whole thing, and how frustrated his team can be right now.
And the game belongs to Zup, so he is in his rights if he decide to end it. But for coherence sake, as himself already said that he spent months and years with no profit to mantain this game up and running, it would not make sense if, right now, he "folds the tent" knowing that we can (finaly) begin to pay a monthly fee!
But remember the "step back" parabole. Lets wait the deadline first.

Got a debit card ?? I do ive givin 50 on that ..come on people if everyone gave 25c we would smash that 15000 mark!! Im going to post on every thread, lets fight our deep urge to be cheep and keep our favorite game alive

I hope all goes well Joaquin!!!.......I planned on donating a few thousand dollars + ( on top of my last donation) as soon as I finish my construction project. I hope I can finish it. My company took a big hit this winter ( lost thousands of $$$ ) and I almost closed my doors...If all works out and these building projects get completed I will do what I said above.

General jackson wrote: I hope all goes well Joaquin!!!.......I planned on donating a few thousand dollars + ( on top of my last donation) as soon as I finish my construction project. I hope I can finish it. My company took a big hit this winter ( lost thousands of $$$ ) and I almost closed my doors...If all works out and these building projects get completed I will do what I said above.

Glad to see your still kicking General

Z, even if we could not reach our goal unfortunately, I am willing to donate the money. Since the moment I clicked "submit" on Kickstarter, I have never expected getting a dime back. I think those who indeed love this game will help you as well. Just let us know when you want a donation instead of pledge.
By the way, you said we have 30,000 active players. But do they visit this forum? What if they just play but don't come to this website? I mean maybe they have not heard about this. Can you post any messages through the game itself instead of the forum?

Hi AlbertZ, Some of us have temp. changed our banners and trying not to be to intrusive have been asking for pilots to donate!

Sorry zuperman I would be pledging but I don't have a credit card

Uppped my pledge to 45$ most I can do atm without not paying the bills I tryed to help

gen.+Jack+ wrote: Sorry zuperman I would be pledging but I don't have a credit card

Who are you? Lolol....name looks familiar

In sorry I'm $. $

I changed my name cause it was getti g old

Ik there's a lot of general jacks and I wasn't thinking at the time lol so I picked jack I sorry

There's only one GENERALJACKSON.

I just noticed the name at the end of the banner.....