Thank you for the light shining post wig. Most people (myself included) have no idea how the mod panel of old worked. I think if it's going to work zup is going to have to pick a certain type of person. Heads are always going collide over thing. Some very passive kind of people are needed.

I understand people want to help but if you WANT to be a global moderator you are probably the wrong person for the job. No offence to anyone who spoke up wanting to be one. You all a good bunch of guys.

Honestly i could care who it is, aslong as the job gets done. My only concern is that whoever get picked is someone of not favors other poeple more than others. All should be treated fairly no matter who they are. Second, is that they keep an open mind to noobs who come here. Not everyone is going to know the rules right off the bat. So there should be some leway there. Zuperman is in this to make money and thats how we survive. Cant just ban or mute anyone for a first offence, unless of course theyre just being out right jerks and have been warned. Third, someone who knows the people well and gets along with everyone. Not some guy who thinks hes better than everyone whom you only see once or twice a week/month.


People who should be a target are those such as pr ace and cobra52. Team killers, puppets, trolls, those who bomb thier own hangars without reason. people who cuss and troll on world chat/game chat.

Anyways weve had this once before, i hope we can learn from the mistakes and itd be better this time around

I mentioned this earlier but I truly think the very FIRST thing that needs to be done (even before bringing back moderators) is to have a Rules of Dogfight screen/page you have to hit 'I understand' button prior to even getting to World Chat & maps/servers.

Without knowing what the rules are how can a newer or clueless pilot be expected to adhere to those rules???

Those of us who have played awhile KNOW not to spawnkill with your tank on an enemy runway.. but many of the newer players don't. Same with teamkilling.. it would seem to be self-explanatory not to kill members of your own team, but for a newer pilot that just played a dogfight mission prior to another mission he might not get the difference.. or perhaps he was recently teamkilled so thinks that's the way the game is played?! (i.e. He thinks there are NO RULES!)

Zuperman please post a screen of Rules of Dogfight as part of the entering of the game.. and include World Chat rules as well such as no cursing or foul language or talk of a sexual nature etc...

I think this needs to be implemented prior to or along with re-establishing moderators.

Just my 2 cents..

Good one zeb i second what he just said.

I disagree with some of the wig points, if team killers and foul mouths were banned as quickly as they offend then they may give up. If they mess up again then simply ban or mute again that's all. No stress and no mess just simply do it.

No one and i do mean NO ONE is completly innocent of having their little tissy fits. If you were looking for someone perfect then you would be out of luck. No one is perfect and I've certainly had a couple that I screamed about. BUT ONLY A COUPLE. The last one about a month ago agaist a certain person was entirely my fault and I apologized to him, turns out he was a nice guy that I respect.

However when you have the type of involvement such as we have in this game then you are bound to have an occasional word or two with someone. HOWEVER YOU WILL NEVER FIND ANY THING THAT I HAVE WRITTEN THAT HAS ANY CUSS WORDS, NOT EVEN THE LITTLE ASTERISKS.

I'm not perfect, however I do maintain that I have a high level of common sense and I am in a position to be able to monitor the forum most of the time. If I do make a mistake then I am not afraid to publicly admit it and rectify the situation.

One last thought, the few people that I did have a problem with also had problems with many others also.

The chat and forum needs help but only from folks who have the time and ability to monitor and then ban and/or mute quickly.

Wig, you bring up some very interesting talking points. Being as I didn't exist in this realm prior to the demise of the original moderators I have to take all your experience and thoughts as completely accurate, and I am sure that they are just that. I would like to address two points that may, in my opinion, help facilitate and guide the global moderator position.

First of all from all accounts each squad leader also fills the moderator slot in their individual squad thread. Based on that observation I would conclude that it is fairly easy for mods to have "jurisdiction" on a limited basis, making it possible to give the global moderators enforcement powers only over gossip categories, and not the individual squad thread. That would alleviate some of the workload and prevent any cross-squadron favoritism, either real or perceived.

The second thing I would like to address was your observation that the moderators were the enablers, so to speak, for people to act out in an effort to get themselves notoriety. My suggestion would be to delete all posts up to the point of banning made by the ban-ee, thereby eliminating the paper trail and all evidence of the player who was banned. Upon reinstatement those posts would not be recovered.

Finally I would like to agree that new mods would likely be zealous in the performance of their assigned duties. I would like to suggest a more mature person would be more apt to weigh the decision a little longer and react with the mindset that the decision to take away someone's privileges should not be taken lightly nor made in haste.

You make a very strong case against forum moderation and I completely agree that when people are ignored they do tend to just fade away. I have been employing that tactic from the outset and it works wonderfully. However it looks like zup has decided to give the forum moderator another go-round and whether or not I get selected I will be watching the progress with great interest because like you, and everyone else who has weighed in on this post, am a huge fan of dogfight, the community, and promoting said community.

And finally, Wig I am humbled by the plug. Thank you.

Like WarEagle said it doesn't matter who it is as long as they do there job.. I thank those you said my name as potential but I have absolutely no desire to be a mod but thank you to those that mentioned my name and I have one question Zup. How can you determine the age simply by what that person says ? It would be horrible if you got the wrong person.. not that you would but I assume your going to pick the more popular(people who have been here awhile) but the chance you do pick a troll or whatever those people are called and they decide to cause havoc and ban people simply cause there mad or just tired of the game ? Ex. PR ACE or The Winner who was insulting squad on his one thread. Nothing would be worse than picking someone to be a mod then finding out there younger in age and they turn for the worst once there given power ?

Well.i.just.just became a grandpa is that old.enough. i was here when Moses parted the red sea. It was one heck.of.a sight.

In addition to age, it seems a "game experience" factor would be necessary. How many cases have we seen where a person starts out nice the first couple of months, then deteriorates into a psychotic mess? Players would need to be known for quite a long time in order for us to have a true diagnosis of them. I would certainly not feel comfortable being moderated by someone who has never seen the functions of mods in this game yet.

Bear in mind that maturity and age don't always go hand in hand. I have met some very mature, level headed young men and women. On the same note I have met some very immature people my age and older. The more difficult task would be to select mature people, not just old people.

I wish I was younger. I was much better looking back then.

Mac, by all accounts the previous system of mods as applied to dogfight did not work, or more accurately did not work well. I would think that folks who were around for that would likely attempt to perform their duties the same was as the past mods and could possibly doom the effort because of their prior experiences. I would suggest a mix of experience and fresh faces just based on the opinions of folks who were here during the previous moderated era.

Because I can apply your same argument to the opposing position. I wouldn't trust a mod who was here before because it didn't function well the first time around.

I agree with what you stated about game experience should factor in, and would like to add board experience as well. Again, just my opinion.

Viper10{WP} wrote: Mac, by all accounts the previous system of mods as applied to dogfight did not work, or more accurately did not work well. I would think that folks who were around for that would likely attempt to perform their duties the same was as the past mods and could possibly doom the effort because of their prior experiences. I would suggest a mix of experience and fresh faces just based on the opinions of folks who were here during the previous moderated era.

Because I can apply your same argument to the opposing position. I wouldn't trust a mod who was here before because it didn't function well the first time around.

I agree with what you stated about game experience should factor in, and would like to add board experience as well. Again, just my opinion.

I'll let you do the studying to find out why the original mods were disbanded. It sure as hell wasn't incompetence. I'm sire you'll get the story from somebody, but I'm not the one to give that.



And after all, it isn't only the super-flamers that need banning, is it? What about the in-game kicks, or the half-hour mutes?

I would like to resign my application. Not because I don't think I can handle it or cause I think I'm not qualified, but because wig is right. I have stirred up a lot of stuff in the past and got several people to permanently hate me for the mistakes I've made. With my reputation the way it is, and with me not on enough to show I've changed, I can't earn anyone's trust. I am sorry I wasted ur time zup with my first post.

I was going to start a separate thread to keep Zup's thread pure, but since the discussion is already here and (hopefully) valuable to Zup, I'll post here. But I will try to make it my own final word on the topic.

I agree with many of Wig's points. Actually most of them. But in the grand tradeoff of Is It Better to have mods or not, I do think the right moderation can be applied to add net positive value to the forum, the game, and Zup's time constraints. To Wig's point, the resulting mods need to be relatively free of drama entanglement in order to be seen and trusted as fair and impartial. I'll add that they need to be humble, with no real or apparent skin in the game. They need to have rules, agree with Zup on those rules, post those rules to the forum, and enforce only those rules. And any players/reporters should show good proof, and then have no further expectation of moderation except that some complaints will be acted on, and some simply will not. These are volunteers.

The mods cannot do their job if rule breakers can hide behind changed names. For this to work, Zup either needs to share his capability of tracking players' accounts with the mods (which would be too much capability, so don't do that), or create a limited capability for mods to follow name changers easily without having to do the excessive detective work that the most recent mod group had to conduct in order to follow such moderation dodgers. Zup, PM me if you want any more details on that.

The two-day ban does nothing and needs to be much longer at its maximum selection. Consider a menu selection between 1-7 days, and beyond that is a perma-ban escalation to you Zup. And if your goal is to avoid having to answer emails from players bitching about bans, then bring in mods you trust, and trust them to do it right. Don't second guess them, as it only saps your own time. If there are clear rules, then the mods can check each other against the rules, with little debate.

No, I won't be throwing my hat in the ring. I consider my exit from the last mod round to be my own drama. Plus, there are many excellent candidates right here. I will support the resulting mod group 100%.

The game and forum need some cleaning up. "Character" is what you do when no one's looking, and some players with limited character need to know that someone is looking.

Manfred

Hola zuper chicos.yo lo haria estaria dispuesto a que este juego sea mejor se.acaben los insultos hacia mi persona y hacia los demas, que sea limpio.juego mucho de dia y de noche soy miy adicto al foro y velaria por este maravilloso juego tengo 48 años soy nivel 31 llevo jugando mas de 3 aunque algo menos en el foro, e visto como año tras año a ido creciendo y estaria dispuesto a seguir aportando mi experiencia y ecuanimidad para toda la familia de.dogfight.soy español vivo en madrid.(lo siento no escribi antes por que
No habia visto el tema) por el curro llevo unos dias un poco liado bueno aqui dejo mi silicitud.

No imagine que se volveria a hacer espero por el bien del juego, que se haga mejor.no se debe tapar nada, no debe haber fovoritismos ni facilidades hacia otros pilotos o escuadrones por el hecho de ser moderador de dicho escuadron, y sobre todo no ser prepotente o subido de galones hacia todos los demas.debe ser respetuoso y hombre de honor hacia toda la comunidad y dar ejemplo para todos los demas.
Yo estaba contento con el zuper, creo que hace un trabajo genial hera el unico que lo podia hacer, pero si necesita ayuda hay estaremos ofrecuendosela en lo que podamos hacerlo.

Lol Rabbit! You "grandpa nooby" I've been "Papa" for nigh on ten years now. Amazing how you can love your grandkids
even more than your OWN stinkin kids.( just kidding, my children) (( I'm really not kidding))

Very good point that was made, about squad morafs not being allowed to moderate ( excluding HB..he is the most even tempered, level headed person, that I have ever met in this DF world). I for one, would not even favor a squad mate in a moderating situation, because
(and any G.I. can testify to this) if a hammer needs to be dropped, it WILL be dropped.

I was away when all the MODS got expunged, so I can't comment on that.

MODS ARE REQUIRED!

ZUPERMAN : Please do not apply the PETER PRINCIPAL.
(Experience pays off.)

The wisest thing anyone has said here was when Grouchomc aka Jason Marx said, and I paraphrase, "I refuse to play a game moderated by anyone who'd want to moderate this game." I realize that these "applications" are in direct response to a request for same, but the people with a history of lobbying to be made a Mod are, sorry, suspect. "I almost never get into snotty dust-ups with people, except when I do" is not a ringing endorsement for balance. The most dedicated Mod we've had has been Manfred and he quit to spare himself the aggravation. It's a gig that requires patience and that shreds your patience on a daily basis.

Were I to be taken seriously as a reinstated Mod you can bet the Jacklpes would raise a hell of a hue and cry, based solely on personal animosity, whether justified or not, and not on "job" performance, mine being, frankly, impeccable. The muck raking that went on tarnished my reputation to Whiplash's great satisfaction but it also got me jettisoned out of a colossal ass-pain that'd been sucking the fun out of the game for months. The moment I stopped being a Mod the game got fun again, my stats started going up again, I stopped dreading checking my PM inbox and my ModSquad emails. But all that having been established, I still resent the suggestion that I did the slightest thing, ever, to influence games in my favor or that I ever cowed the other Mods into lining up with me. And I still welcome the opportunity to not be a Mod. Young person Kestrel shows infinitely more maturity by bowing out gracefully in light of his track record, as do I in light of mine, than does Davy when he insists that he'd make a good cop in spite of himself. It's reasonable to say that someone who's launched personal attacks on another player over differing politics, who lacks the maturity to refrain from featuring his opinion on his forum banner fercrissakes, is not the model of objectivity the Mod job needs. Sorry Davy, the banner's right there speaking more objectively about who you are than you can.

As for the Moderator system not working, it didn't work because the game and forum are configured in such a way that it can't work. Can't, and won't. Go nuts, new Mods, with your short term toothless bans, like Manfred I'll support you all the way to the nuthouse. I was well along in writing up a comprehensive Rule Book when the twit hit the fan, a masterpiece of pointlessness and several hours outta my life that I'll never get back. The Rule Book can be yours for a nominal fee. But nothing anyone might do as a Mod now will be any more effective than what we did. We conferred with each other, we argued and hashed out differences while arriving at agreements about policy, we burned countless hours banning, muting, posting on the Blacklist thread, following the thread and responding to complaints, tapping Joaquin for perma-bans when necessary, pestering Joaquin (to absolutely no avail) for the stronger powers nearly the entire community wanted us to have. Manfred said it; we needed more power than we were ever likely to be trusted to wield and if that group wasn't trustworthy enough to wield it I don't expect to see a group that is.

Mac, there are appreciably fewer scumbags rising to the surface and staying afloat there buoyed by the press they got from being Modded than there were before you arrived in Dogfightville. We've always had 'em, every game and forum and gathering of more than two people in one place has. You will never see the measures taken that'd be required to police the pricks out of existence because no such measures exist in this or any man's universe. We report, they change names. We ban, they change accounts or devices or IP addresses. Literally every single everfrickin' chimp who's ever EVER been "permanently" banned from this game has come back, eventually boasted about it, and has been allowed to mock the so-called authority, allowed by the only real authority with the tools, but not the stones, to do anything about them. We Mods had the stones but were never given the tools. And no, those are not subliminal gay references.

As for squad leaders/members making judgments, the new mods can do what the old mods did and leave the room when the party in question is in your squad or a close friend.

As for ideal mods being the ones who don't want to moderate, true enough, but as you said, Zup asked. I wouldn't interpret someone volunteering in this thread as un-humble. I think that humility, or whatever that parameter is better called, can be judged separately from hands-up-when-asked.

As for any particular individual volunteering, I don't see this thread as the place to diss anyone who simply answered Zup's call. Zup can figure that out for himself. Unless of course he asks for votes in the Selection Phase, but that is not a method I would encourage as it would be a popularity contest.

The prospect of active moderation has me interested in playing again. I even played a game this morning!

Manfred

I have read every one of these posts, and all have valid points. But also, all have to agree that SOMETHING needs to be done here.
The forum and chat worlds have taken the "low road" these past few months, to be sure.

My so called personnel attacks were stating facts, just basic facts, I know how much facts upset you. As for the banner, pretty much everyone thinks it's hilarious given the circumstances as to how it came about, even most MOMS, but why digress,

Do I think I would make a good mod, why yes I do. I'm 63 and been around the block so to speak. Guess you could say I have a lot of experience, was even a prison cop for several years, a good one at that. One thing I never understood, how can a person who is suppose to be a moderator against language use the language himself. Why that's the definition of hypocrisy isn't it. My record stands for itself lol lol.

However it's not important for me to be a mod. It's only important to me that mods do eventually exist, no matter who ZUPERMAN chooses. Now MR, WIG, do you really want to keep this in the limelight?

Wow, Manfred! Yours is, by FAR...THE best post on this entire thread so far. Well said. ( clap CLAP )

I can't be bothered to read any of this and I'm drunk, and I like cake.






Cake.

tKestrel wrote: I would like to resign my application. Not because I don't think I can handle it or cause I think I'm not qualified, but because wig is right. I have stirred up a lot of stuff in the past and got several people to permanently hate me for the mistakes I've made. With my reputation the way it is, and with me not on enough to show I've changed, I can't earn anyone's trust. I am sorry I wasted ur time zup with my first post.

That took some stones!

GREAT JOB!

Speaks volumes about your growth, keep it up!

What if we only had one global mod? Someone who is next to zuperman. Somone active and powerful, de ided by the people. Like mentioned, this place isnt that bad ya know? But ever now and then we do get a few bad eggs. Like, the president, only he/shes a mod. Someone who servers the people of dogfight. What do yall think on this? That way less drama lol

VOTE FOR .WIG!!!!!!!!

Not that my suggestion matters, but Juaquin why don't you just hire a small crew where you work/live that you personally know/trust to Mod? In the past you have claimed to not have enough money for things like this, but now I'm sure that is different. Players money, echoboom, and the 4yrs of developing this game should be enough for you to hire a panel of Mods where you work/are located. This is the only way to be sure things are handled properly/legally. I was a Mod of yours, what like 3yrs ago, so I know personally how easy it would be for someone to just mute/ban anyone they wanted. I only muted people using foul language and derogatory meanness towards others, and banned those that team kill or bomb own teams hangars..... but many are far too involved with the game and other players to be unbiased. Well there's an idea.... mull it over

hi, I can be a moderator?

My name is Adarsh. I'm from India (GMT +5:30). 23 years old and I'm currently at level 26. I love this forum as much as I love the game. I will be online mostly between 6am to 9 am, 7pm to 12 am & checks the forum in between when I gets enough time.
I might be young and unexperienced. Have seen many foul mouths and offenders in this game and in wc. Haven't been here when the old mod panel was there. But now if someone gives me a chance to clean up the dirt from the game I love, I WILL BE FULLY WILLING TO DO THE JOB!