That's the beautiful thing about our constitution... It's just not that easy to change. It's more and more apparent to me how fast people will rush right out and give away their rights in the name of safety and security (which there will NEVER be a true guarantee of). That terrifies me just as much as a hard assed gun supporter seems to terrify some of you. It's not hard for me to see how this and that group of people has been lined up and slaughtered like sheep. They did it for their own safety!

So you are proposing that 18 year olds can give their life for our country, but you have to be 25 to hunt a squirrel??? That almost makes as much sense as one having to be 18 to die for their country, yet 21 to enjoy a beer in it.

Ok. Enough from me. Going back to the Jolly Roger now...

So you are proposing that 18 year olds can give their life for our country, but you have to be 25 to hunt a squirrel??? That almost makes as much sense as one having to be 18 to die for their country, yet 21 to enjoy a beer in it.
Yep that's exactly what I'm proposing. Put all the 18 year olds in nappies and stand them in the front line.
Military didn't even come into my question. Am asking about amendments constitutions can be changed!!!

Jacklpe wrote: That's the beautiful thing about our constitution... It's just not that easy to change. It's more and more apparent to me how fast people will rush right out and give away their rights in the name of safety and security (which there will NEVER be a true guarantee of). That terrifies me just as much as a hard assed gun supporter seems to terrify some of you. It's not hard for me to see how this and that group of people has been lined up and slaughtered like sheep. They did it for their own safety!

So you are proposing that 18 year olds can give their life for our country, but you have to be 25 to hunt a squirrel??? That almost makes as much sense as one having to be 18 to die for their country, yet 21 to enjoy a beer in it.

Ok. Enough from me. Going back to the Jolly Roger now...[/quote

Probably for the best if you continue this conversation in your own fine establishment, it is a sensitive topic.

You're probably right Congress. This ain't nothing compared to the row that ended with me leaving MOM though. I can't help myself, I've just got a stubborn streak that some folks just can't take. At least I'm honest though.

Heff006 wrote: So you are proposing that 18 year olds can give their life for our country, but you have to be 25 to hunt a squirrel??? That almost makes as much sense as one having to be 18 to die for their country, yet 21 to enjoy a beer in it.
Yep that's exactly what I'm proposing. Put all the 18 year olds in nappies and stand them in the front line.
Military didn't even come into my question. Am asking about amendments constitutions can be changed!!!

Generally it is 18 year olds standing on front lines.

As far as amending our Bill of Rights, a certain amount of our people would do it in an instant. The rest of the barbarians like me say hell no. So the argument goes on.

"He who is willing to give up his rights for a little temporary safety deserves neither rights nor safety"
-Benjamin Franklin

The fact is this: America is no more violent or crime-ridden than any other country in the world. We just have quite a few people, and our media and press are free to print any and every story, instead of covering it up to make us feel better. In Pennsylvania a couple weeks ago, a kid pulled two kitchen knives and slashed up his school class. Exactly one year ago, two men dropped explosive pressure cookers at the Boston marathon, injuring over two hundred people.
Let's use this logic: if that kid knew that 5 security guards, the principle, and half the teachers were armed, trustworthy, and professionally trained to use guns, he wouldn't have attacked anybody. If in a theater in Colorado, twenty people had gone through background checks with conceal and carry licenses, nobody would attack anybody. The only reason you'd hate guns is because you're scared of them.


I'm sorry, this thread has gotten severely off-topic. jackalope, i know how it feels to lose someone you love to the wrong person with a weapon, but that's not what this thread is supposed to be about. This is about saying what you like to do, not this unpleasentness.

Mac McMaster wrote: "He who is willing to give up his rights for a little temporary safety deserves neither rights nor safety"
-Benjamin Franklin

The fact is this: America is no more violent or crime-ridden than any other country in the world. We just have quite a few people, and our media and press are free to print any and every story, instead of covering it up to make us feel better. In Pennsylvania a couple weeks ago, a kid pulled two kitchen knives and slashed up his school class. Exactly one year ago, two men dropped explosive pressure cookers at the Boston marathon, injuring over two hundred people.
Let's use this logic: if that kid knew that 5 security guards, the principle, and half the teachers were armed, trustworthy, and professionally trained to use guns, he wouldn't have attacked anybody. If in a theater in Colorado, twenty people had gone through background checks with conceal and carry licenses, nobody would attack anybody. The only reason you'd hate guns is because you're scared of them.


I'm sorry, this thread has gotten severely off-topic. jackalope, i know how it feels to lose someone you love to the wrong person with a weapon, but that's not what this thread is supposed to be about. This is about saying what you like to do, not this unpleasentness.

Mac, I think we're gonna get along fine.

Well let's see, I love to deer hunt, small game hunt, bird hunt, and plink. Unfortunately, I seem to always be working, so I have time to do none of it. On the rare occasion that I am at my family's farm, I usually go through a couple hundred bucks worth of ammo just to try to remain proficient, usually with handguns. I also occasionally go to a range, but they are expensive and restrictive, so I don't do it very often. Years ago I used to shoot a LOT of skeet also, but that's another thing I just don't have time for anymore.

Well Mac McMaster, I would very much like you to back up your so called facts with some real facts and/or statistics.
I would say that you have a lot more gunrelated crimes then almost any other country in the world.

The point of This thread was not to argue gun control. If you gotta problem with guns maybe you shouldn't play a game where we shoot other planes.

bellsaj wrote: Well Mac McMaster, I would very much like you to back up your so called facts with some real facts and/or statistics.
I would say that you have a lot more gunrelated crimes then almost any other country in the world.

crimes don't have to be gun-related, as my previous post mentioned. Also, I'm unable to pull up hard evidence, because most other countries don't have the same internet and press freedom. In North Korea, for instance, the people believe that Kim Jong shot a perfect eighteen in golf, yet didn't know that they were the most oppressed country in the world. I do, however, have a good idea of human nature, and if someone wants to kill people, it's not just because he has a gun, and he will certainly do it regardless of whether he has a gun or not. If he failed background checks and stuff, he'll get a gun illegally anyway. This point is moot, because many murderers' guns are unregistered.
So, Bellsaj, i can't give you concrete numbers, but i shouldn't need to. I might put up a link if i have spare time later, regarding the world's highest crime rates. And not including guns. A gun is just another method.

bellsaj wrote: Well Mac McMaster, I would very much like you to back up your so called facts with some real facts and/or statistics.
I would say that you have a lot more gunrelated crimes then almost any other country in the world.

Disagreed, the Taliban and other illegal militias and gangs kill way more. Plus of you look at small town compared to big city there is less crime. Almost everyone in small town has a gun (keep in mind the part time cop only works till 6pm) so if you rob them ur gonna get shot. Go to the city an look they have tons of cops and no guns and they get robbed.

The truth of the matter is you have to respect a gun. I grew up with them and respect them. Never aim at a human unless it is life or death situation where u need to if ur gonna survive. You gotta realize the power of a gun and that it is only for self defense,target practice and hunting. Never shoot something you don't plan to eat. Never kill unless you absolutely have to. Only target practice where you can aim away from all peoples an buildings. People these days are psycho and just run around with no respect for guns. Those people make me so angry

Don't get me wrong now. I'm not against guns and don't believe that it's the gun that is dangerous but the hand who pulls the trigger.
I own several rifles and used to have a .22 pistol.
I hunt and compete with my rifles.
Yet I don't think it's every mans right to own a firearm. I believe that it's the easy access to firearms that leads to fex. Shoolshotings.
As they say the opportunity makes the thief.

I'm inclined to think that the breakdown of the family, children not being taught right from wrong, and so on has a lot to blame for the school shootings and such. The school shooting that happened near me in the late 90's in AR was done by a couple of kids who had been shooting at cattle, owned by a veterinarian that I used to know, before they moved on to worse. The warning signs were obvious, but real decisive action wasn't taken and it led to a lot of innocent lives being lost. Keep in mind that I was primarily raised by a single mom, and I had my share of screw ups when I say all of this. Sadly, young people are not getting what they need at home. Not the love, nor the discipline. When they grow up, all hell breaks loose. Now as a dad who is constantly on the road away from home, I try 3x harder when I am home to make up for my absence, but it still worries me that I'm not there everyday. It's a crappy world we live in when Mom and Dad are both forced to work tremendous hours away from home to make ends meet. In my opinion, the results are starting to become more visible by the day. I know that's not all that's driving these violent tendencies, but it's not helping. As far as the guns are concerned, damn near every home in the US had one or two not too many generations ago, yet as more people turn against them, the violence seems to get worse.

I wish I had all the answers, but I don't. The one answer that I am sure about is that we as a country need to take a lot more responsibility for our actions. No more excuses...

Freedom: the right to give as many damns as you want about anything you want, but you don't have to givr a damn about anything you don't want to, and no one can make you give a damn.

Jacklpe wrote:

Allied wrote: This thread should be locked

Don't like the conversation = shut down the conversation? Please don't be that way.

I support guns but I know this thread is just going to lead to some argument.

Allied wrote:

Jacklpe wrote:

Allied wrote: This thread should be locked

Don't like the conversation = shut down the conversation? Please don't be that way.

I support guns but I know this thread is just going to lead to some argument.

You're probably right, but unless it actually does, I hate to see it censored.

Well excuse me but why oh why should this thread lead to a lockout. For crying out loud folks cant we have conversations and differences without the "B" word being brought up.

How will anything get solved unless we can have discussions without repercussions.

Davy Crockett wrote: Well excuse me but why oh why should this thread lead to a lockout. For crying out loud folks cant we have conversations and differences without the "B" word being brought up.

How will anything get solved unless we can have discussions without repercussions.

OMG! Davy made sense AND didn't try to sell anyone a book or even mention flying saucers! Is the world coming to an end?!?

I wrote a book awhile back call "WAYS TO HAVE CIVIL DISCUSSIONS WITHOUT REPERCUSSIONS" by DAVY Crockett.

The book studies the art of discussions, yes it even has a chapter of discussion about UFOs

For only $39.99. Book is excellent for study and do a college theses on.

Davy Crockett wrote: I wrote a book awhile back call "WAYS TO HAVE CIVIL DISCUSSIONS WITHOUT REPERCUSSIONS" by DAVY Crockett.

The book studies the art of discussions, yes it even has a chapter of discussion about UFOs

For only $39.99. Book is excellent for study and do a college theses on.

Oh jeeeez.. we all can breathe a sigh of relief now.. the world isn't ending! We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Jacklpe wrote: I'm inclined to think that the breakdown of the family, children not being taught right from wrong, and so on has a lot to blame for the school shootings and such. The school shooting that happened near me in the late 90's in AR was done by a couple of kids who had been shooting at cattle, owned by a veterinarian that I used to know, before they moved on to worse. The warning signs were obvious, but real decisive action wasn't taken and it led to a lot of innocent lives being lost. Keep in mind that I was primarily raised by a single mom, and I had my share of screw ups when I say all of this. Sadly, young people are not getting what they need at home. Not the love, nor the discipline. When they grow up, all hell breaks loose. Now as a dad who is constantly on the road away from home, I try 3x harder when I am home to make up for my absence, but it still worries me that I'm not there everyday. It's a crappy world we live in when Mom and Dad are both forced to work tremendous hours away from home to make ends meet. In my opinion, the results are starting to become more visible by the day. I know that's not all that's driving these violent tendencies, but it's not helping. As far as the guns are concerned, damn near every home in the US had one or two not too many generations ago, yet as more people turn against them, the violence seems to get worse.

I wish I had all the answers, but I don't. The one answer that I am sure about is that we as a country need to take a lot more responsibility for our actions. No more excuses...

That would be the one up in jonesboro? I remember that one.

I like guns, I just don't like it when the wrong people are shooting them.

[*M] TR wrote:

Jacklpe wrote: I'm inclined to think that the breakdown of the family, children not being taught right from wrong, and so on has a lot to blame for the school shootings and such. The school shooting that happened near me in the late 90's in AR was done by a couple of kids who had been shooting at cattle, owned by a veterinarian that I used to know, before they moved on to worse. The warning signs were obvious, but real decisive action wasn't taken and it led to a lot of innocent lives being lost. Keep in mind that I was primarily raised by a single mom, and I had my share of screw ups when I say all of this. Sadly, young people are not getting what they need at home. Not the love, nor the discipline. When they grow up, all hell breaks loose. Now as a dad who is constantly on the road away from home, I try 3x harder when I am home to make up for my absence, but it still worries me that I'm not there everyday. It's a crappy world we live in when Mom and Dad are both forced to work tremendous hours away from home to make ends meet. In my opinion, the results are starting to become more visible by the day. I know that's not all that's driving these violent tendencies, but it's not helping. As far as the guns are concerned, damn near every home in the US had one or two not too many generations ago, yet as more people turn against them, the violence seems to get worse.

I wish I had all the answers, but I don't. The one answer that I am sure about is that we as a country need to take a lot more responsibility for our actions. No more excuses...

That would be the one up in jonesboro? I remember that one.

Yup

OK, now that everyone's done fraggin This thread that had nothing to do with gun control......

WHO LIKES GUNS. ????

I do!!!!!

I have what I call a collection, and what the Feds might call an arsenal. My family has stood the line since before there was a USA, and guns have been part of my life since I was a toddler. We had loaded guns leaning in the corner most of the deer season (flintlocks) as a child I learned to shoot and learned safety. It never occurred to me that guns could be used to shoot up a school. In my school we taught hunters ed in sixth grade with real guns and took the first days of buck and doe off from school. Everyone hunted. When I joined the Army I was amazed at how much we trained to run and how little we trained to shoot, so I gravitated to the shooting aspects, competitions, high power, range duties, etc.

I would like to ask people to google gun crime per capita, and the compare to gun ownership per capita. Simple availability does not correlate to gun crime. If it did Switzerland and Iceland and the US would lead the crime stats, but we don't. Crime correlates to gun crime, and the US is a low security, comparatively low crime society in most places. We have some drug battlegrounds that run the stats up, but generally this is a safe place. I nominally keep guns for self defense that I doubt I will ever need, but I keep fire extinguishers too and have never used one of those. Mainly I keep guns because believe every citizen should be ready to respond to the call with forty rounds and a clean rifle. The state can call you to serve; whether you show up as a trained rifleman is up to you. If not, you can still serve a purpose by drawing fire from those that can shoot.

Longrifle wrote: I have what I call a collection, and what the Feds might call an arsenal. My family has stood the line since before there was a USA, and guns have been part of my life since I was a toddler. We had loaded guns leaning in the corner most of the deer season (flintlocks) as a child I learned to shoot and learned safety. It never occurred to me that guns could be used to shoot up a school. In my school we taught hunters ed in sixth grade with real guns and took the first days of buck and doe off from school. Everyone hunted. When I joined the Army I was amazed at how much we trained to run and how little we trained to shoot, so I gravitated to the shooting aspects, competitions, high power, range duties, etc.

I would like to ask people to google gun crime per capita, and the compare to gun ownership per capita. Simple availability does not correlate to gun crime. If it did Switzerland and Iceland and the US would lead the crime stats, but we don't. Crime correlates to gun crime, and the US is a low security, comparatively low crime society in most places. We have some drug battlegrounds that run the stats up, but generally this is a safe place. I nominally keep guns for self defense that I doubt I will ever need, but I keep fire extinguishers too and have never used one of those. Mainly I keep guns because believe every citizen should be ready to respond to the call with forty rounds and a clean rifle. The state can call you to serve; whether you show up as a trained rifleman is up to you. If not, you can still serve a purpose by drawing fire from those that can shoot.

LOL, the question was whether you liked them. But nice debate/argument/proposal.

C

Objective presentation of facts:








I encourage you to fact check this and confirm it. (Mostly FBI and UN stats)

My one and only post on this thread (due to skimming the posts already made)... First off, I live in Texas, my views on guns can be "stereotyped" however anyone sees fit, I will keep my guns and comments to myself until you cross my bubble.


Even bigger second thought.... This is a forum for a war shooting game... we are on this forum for just that, I fail to see how people can be so anti - whatever(not just limited to guns), but be OK with it just because it is a video game.

Could go on further, I will chose not to.





Keep up the great work Zup!!!

Longrifle wrote: I have what I call a collection, and what the Feds might call an arsenal. My family has stood the line since before there was a USA, and guns have been part of my life since I was a toddler. We had loaded guns leaning in the corner most of the deer season (flintlocks) as a child I learned to shoot and learned safety. It never occurred to me that guns could be used to shoot up a school. In my school we taught hunters ed in sixth grade with real guns and took the first days of buck and doe off from school. Everyone hunted. When I joined the Army I was amazed at how much we trained to run and how little we trained to shoot, so I gravitated to the shooting aspects, competitions, high power, range duties, etc.

I would like to ask people to google gun crime per capita, and the compare to gun ownership per capita. Simple availability does not correlate to gun crime. If it did Switzerland and Iceland and the US would lead the crime stats, but we don't. Crime correlates to gun crime, and the US is a low security, comparatively low crime society in most places. We have some drug battlegrounds that run the stats up, but generally this is a safe place. I nominally keep guns for self defense that I doubt I will ever need, but I keep fire extinguishers too and have never used one of those. Mainly I keep guns because believe every citizen should be ready to respond to the call with forty rounds and a clean rifle. The state can call you to serve; whether you show up as a trained rifleman is up to you. If not, you can still serve a purpose by drawing fire from those that can shoot.

My beliefs are the same as yours Long. I as well have a collection/arsenal, been collecting and shooting since I could remember. I also enjoy shooting competition, hipower rifle and combat pistol. I also strongly believe in having them around for self defense and the defense of my family. Actually I rarely leave home without it. I taught both my daughter's firearms safety and later to shoot. I take honors in bragging rites to say they are both expert shooters in anything they shoot. They enjoy it and constantly after me to take them to a range which I try to do as time allows.
I believe in firearm safety and never turned anyone down who showed an interest to learn. I really wish it was allowed in or school system as was in your day. I thought that part about opening day listed as school close days was cool. Those were the days when guns were a part of our growing up.

My father was a veteran of WW II and had some souvenirs (shall we say) he had brought back. One summer I was tasked to help my mother with spring cleaning. My mom was fearful (from traumatic experiences during childhood) of firearms and didn't want any in the house. Well during the cleaning of my dad's closet she came across a few of my dad's hunting guns along with this beautiful souvenir collection. She thru a fit and requested I collect them all and take them out to the trash before leaving the room.. WHAT!!!!
I immediately put a plan together. Yes ma'am I'll get rite on it. I quickly checked each one to insure they were unloaded and safe, which they were. Collected them all up and stored them in a secure hiding place. Later I had acquired the appropriate cleaning kit and oils for them and continually cleaned and checked on them as timewent on. When I was older and able to purchase ammo I began taking them out and shooting them, as much as my small pay check would allow.
Years later upon returning from my tour in Nam I packed them up and they've been with me every since. Before leaving I told my parents of my secret. Blew my mom's mind and my dad was happy. He told me he had planned to give them to me some day.
Mach2