Rules that aren’t really rules

I used to think that the term “war crimes” was an oxymoron. How could anyone commit a crime during the act of warfare? War is a dreadful aspect of our human condition; however, we glorify it. We glorify it because we as a species believe (for whatever reason) that even war has honor. And I think most of us would agree that killing another human being during combat is far more honorable than executing a person who is unarmed and/or in bondage. And, of course, we recognize that committing the act of ethnic cleansing is the most offensive moral undertaking the world has ever witnessed. Treason is up there on the most dishonorable list as well. I won't get into torture. Likewise, I think most of us would agree that there is more honor in a fistfight as opposed to a drive-by shooting. Therefore, “war crimes” exists and have a permanent and useful place in managing war. Morals, ethics, a code, are all terms that the concept of honor rest upon even in battle.

My point here is that there are men and there are savages, and by men I mean “wo/mankind”. Our “honorable” actions, whatever those maybe, are what set us apart from animals. As the philosopher Kant once said, “Live your life as if every act would become universal law” [possibly paraphrased]. That universal law is how we distinguish those building blocks of honor. With that said, I believe even a community at war with one another deserves a sense of honor and pride, even if that community is set within the limits of a game. Believe it or not, but Dogfight has been writing its own definition of honor with each and every player and forum posts.

I know many people see Dogfight as just a game, and they may also see posts such as this one beyond the reasonable means of game enjoyment. However, I argue this point of view on three fronts. One is that many players recognize Dogfight (DF) as a community and with every community come ethics, etiquette, a discourse (unique terminology), and a hierarchy, all of which Dogfight includes (all bow to the MORAFS). Second is that gaming is essentially how we practice for real life scenarios. Like a lion cub learns to kill its prey by pouncing on a sibling, games are how we learn life skills safely. Therefore, our mannerisms within a gaming community may very well mirror our way of life, our fundamental code of honor. For example, many of us wouldn’t leave our children or significant others alone with a known team killer. Third is that games are meant to be enjoyed, and by following a moral code, one that gives a greater sense of pride, is highly enjoyable to players like myself. By looking at the context of the material on this forum, it seems most players appreciate a sense of order and honor.

The codes I have adopted and will list below are not my creations. Instead, I have collected these by reading post on this forum and by reading text during flight time. This is where DF pilots may find this post most interesting. What I believe I have done here is collected the most popular standards or codes of honor within the community of DF. Of course, I have included my own flavor to the moral recipe. Regardless, my aim is to provide new pilots (or veterans) with a quick (or not so quick) reference to Dogfight culture: The rules that aren’t really rules.

In no particular order:

Lag (www.dogfightplay.com/index.php/forum/2-g...eorists?limitstart=0)
For starters, I have learned to never enter a game from a location that I know has the high potential for a slow connection. Lag seems to piss off Pilots more than anything else, almost. With this in mind, if pilotss notice lag, it is a good idea to message fellow players and ask if they have noticed glitches in game play as well. Or what is commonly done is to text “LAG.” If the pilot is the only one experiencing lag, it is honorable (not so customary) to immediately leave the game. Many pilots assume that other player will notify them (or complain) about their lagging, which is perfectly fine in the eyes of the DF community. Regardless how a pilot discovers they are lagging, it is the much appreciated duty as pilot to exit for the time being. If everyone is lagging, then there is little to be done. All pilots fly through the cloud of lag.

Sneakers (Going high/ flanking to the far left or right to avoid the opposing team)
It seems there is an ongoing debate about sneaking. Many despise it, but many believe it is a tactical maneuver. Regardless, one can hardly argue that sneaking keeps the game interesting. Personally, I love shooting down a sneaker. However, it appears the majority see frequent sneaking as cowardice especially under certain circumstances. Within this complicated debate, there seems to be a nearly unanimous agreement on certain circumstances for sneaking. For example, if the sides/numbers are heavily in favor of our honored Blue team, one should never sneak. Within the DF community, this is a golden rule with only one exception. If the evil Reds are dropping their bombs to even out the disadvantage in numbers, sometimes pilots sneak to prevent an endless, redundant game, and they seems to mostly get away with it honor still intact. Personally, I never sneak if my stats during the game are dismal. If I cannot hold my own in head-to-head combat, which is often the case, I won’t flank or go high to avoid certain death. In other words, I must have more kills than deaths within a match before I put on the sneakers.

Dropping (dropping your bomb during bombing missions in order to have a speed advantage)
Most pilots hate droppers, but we all do it. Pilots generally drop under two circumstances. One is when they are the only honored Blue and the evil Reds have many more in the air. Two is when a hornet’s nest of Reds is circling above the Blue runway. As soon as, or if, the circumstances even out, most honorable players carry the next run.

Switching Sides (logging out and logging back in the same server to switch sides)
Many players switch sides to even out the numbers. This is a common act that seems to have no shame. I have many times appreciated this gesture. However, other players sometimes become touchy when players switch sides. If there are forum debates on switching, I am not aware of it. Personally, I will never do it. I see it as a bit like treachery. Once I’m Blue, I stay that way. Plus, I like this random and lopsided aspect of the game. Good pilots don’t mind a good challenge when being outnumbered.

Spawn Killing (Killing pilots during take-off)
Although every player hates the evil Reds just as much as the next, most pilots respect their right to fly. To shoot a pilot in the back during take-off is considered highly egregious behavior. However, like all rules, there are special conditions and this code apparently has two. On a bombing mission, if a pilot is leading a team of honored Blue within sight of the target, they will spray the runway with firepower. Again, this seems to be a fairly common and acceptable tactical maneuver and a good one for not only the pilot leading the charge but for the fellow Blue. The second is during a Blimp mission. If pilots are protecting the blimp, they protect the blimp especially when it approaches the drop zone.

However, Spawn Killing during a dogfight scenario is highly shameful.

Camping (circling a runway in order to get an easy kill)
Camping tends to be an interesting debate. No one advocates camping, but many players don’t seem to be able to help themselves. In bombing missions, the best pilots pride themselves on hitting the target and then circling back home to reload. However, if an evil Red engages a retreating Blue in combat, many pilots turn, engage, and retaliate. This turning to retaliate often gives the appearance of camping, but it is not, provided the successful bomber turns back home. Personally, my end goal is to make it back home to reload. I love nothing more than limping back to base after a solid run with a smoldering engine.

Auto-Destroy
Hitting Auto-Destroy to avoid having to fly back to the base to reload is fairly common practice. I have yet to read a debate about whether or not this practice is deemed suitable behavior within the DF community. Personally, I abhor it for many reasons. But I hope pilots will voice their opinions in the comment sections below.

Tanks
I hate tanks, but many pilots like to moonlight as tank commanders. There seems to be two codes of honor applied to tanks. One is to never sit on a runway and spawn kill. This is one of most dishonorable behaviors. Two is not to abandon your teammates by staying out of the air. Tanks on the ground mean fewer fighters in the air. Finally, it seems to be bad form for a pilot to beg to be shot down in order to leave tracks in the mud. DF is for pilots first. Again, I hate tanks.

Team Killing/Friendly Fire (Shooting a Blue)
In a game without any rules, this is one to follow. Purposeful team killing is forbidden. Once you kill blue always a red. And, that is if your wings aren’t permanently cut by the Gods of DF. Friendly fire, however, is something all pilots have done, but a good pilot apologized immediately and prays every night for forgiveness.

Savages:
This brings me to the savages. If a player/s has such a lack of honor that it disrupts the enjoyment of the game, good pilots simply find a new bunch of pilots that act as wo/men do. There is a big sky to enjoy.

Finishing the Game
Don’t run (unless real life is unavoidable). If outnumbered, good pilots will take their lumps and be better for it. I would rather die 20 times with no kills than leave a fair game. By fair game, I mean that the other players are pilots, not savages. In other words, a fair game could still be five evil Reds with only one representative of Blue. There can be much enjoyment fighting it out to the last hangar, and, as many know, there is a sense of honor in losing to respectable, even if ugly, Reds. There is much to learn when one is outmatched but sticks with it. Those lessons often go far beyond the world of gaming.

Finally, my list above has not been posted to criticize players who have differing definitions of honor, philosophies, or practices. It is, however, to offer a collection of ethics displayed on this forum. Also, I hope to stimulate other pilots to consider what honor in the world of Dogfight means to them. Many, if not all, of the squadrons have a code to fly by, and I am an advocate for each pilot to consider their own, even those within a squadron and especially those I.P.s (independent pilots) like myself. For me, by following what seems to be the community’s mostly agreed upon honor system has been my way of distinguishing my good self from my bad; my man from my savage. It is how I have grown to enjoy this game better. It’s what I consider “fun.”

Finally, another pilot that uses proper sentence/paragraph structure and grammar. A well-written post. I enjoyed it, but I am at somewhat of a loss as to the point, exactly. What is our response supposed to be, and what are we supposed to take from this? Just a glimpse into the mind of H.L. Finn? Or do you want us to publish our own codes of honor on this thread? As you said, we were all aware of every one of these issues before this topic.
Also, people do advocate camping. Search: Lafayette Escadrille, ZebraUp, Ziza...
Finally, Be warned: you've opened a can of worms that you'll never get shut.

Thank you for your very thoughtful contribution!

I would just like to point out that spawnkilling from a tank parked next to a runway is actually against the rules of Dogfight. It is one of the few egregious behaviors that Zuperman has not been able to "code" out of the game.

If you look through the forum history of update release notes you can see that many issues have come up first as complaints, then as suggestions for implementing new rules, and in many cases as new "mechanisms" within the game that finally bring an end to the issue.

This includes issues such as:
team killing
bombing blue hangars
parking tanks on the spawn point of the runways
having a soldier on (or in) a carrier shooting at planes
Purposely getting shot down near enemy airports and getting in tanks
Using profanity
More...?


There are only a few legitimate complaints left to be handled on the blacklist yet it's still one of the busiest threads on the forum.

Here we go again...

Nice post tho

Kant is ok but the issues described and how people debate them sometimes make the forum and the game fit into the line of thought given to us by Camus-






Along with life the game can sometimes be absurd.

I agree to disagree.. why I say that? because I didn't feel like reading lol but im sure its great

DD | v/hiplash wrote: .

Welcome to T.A.S.K.

Here you will find the dishonorable players list of team killers, traitors and spawn killers. Please post with the names and offenses of pilots who either kill players on their won team (blue), bomb their own hangars, spawn kill in tank or relentlessly spawn kill in plane. This post will be updated so the entire list can easily be viewed. There is also a printable version for download(coming soon). If you are on this list and disagree please post and explain why.

======================================
T.A.S.K. List
======================================

JIHAD *** SYUHADA	Team Killer
scouserT	Team Killer
killer beans	Team Killer
Moondoggie08	Team Killer
Sackoff_Knitler	Team Killer
EE Orange	Team Killer
####'s	Team Killer
NENADNNN	Team Killer
Dreadnought	Team Killer
noblegas	Team Killer
Stratocaster	Team Killer
Jose Vega	Team Killer
rfate	Team Killer
Killer596	Team Killer
Dylan Sing	Team Killer
Lplates	Traitor
rogercolley	Traitor/Potty Mouth
Kero Zen	Spawn Killer
Lowenhardt	Spawn Killer
Bizmart	Spawn Killer
Discoball	Spawn Killer
Masa50	Spawn Killer
kkhoty	Spawn Killer
~~~°°~~~	Spawn Killer/Potty Mouth
teat	Potty Mouth
Dan-Dan	Potty Mouth
Watch Only
Mr. Mejia	Team Killer
ktm530	Traitor
Dynomite	Team Killer
Tary	Spawn Killer
Night Piggy	Team Killer
Mousestone	Spawn Killer
GRAZT-MOSLE	Potty Mouth
Lieutenant Col	Team Killer
Rambo III	Team Killer

T.A.S.K.E.R.S.

Who are T.A.S.K.E.R.S.? They are TEAM AND SPAWNKILLER EMPOWERED REVENGE SOCIETIERS, not vigilante, but harsh payback teachers. This is not for the feint of heart kids, here you will shed your decency briefly to make this game playable for decent members. YOUR mission if you decide to choose it..is KILL. There will be NO warnings given to transgressors, if you see them doing it, kill them, let the system warn them. Then post here for all of us, pics of your schooling is welcome and encouraged. FREEDOM IS A ROAD SELDOM TRAVELLED BY THE MULTITUDES.

DOWNLOAD LIST

I dont know how to post links yet..but i found this dead/old thread..is this still practiced?...

T.A.S.K. Died of a couple of months ago, they did a pretty good job of policing the skies. Hunting the garbage that ruin games. Most lost interest. Many left the game completely. Maybe someday they will return....

This is a really good collections of definitions in the game, and whit that we can see the extreme contradictions in the style of the game. The next I'm gonna write, can't use a google traslator, we need some one who talk Spanish and English for no losse the context, sorry about that




En realidad los pilotos no buscan honor, los pilotos buscan beneficiar su estilo de vuelo. Muchos dicen que no soltar la bomba es tener honor, pero eso es una enorme mentira, lo que ellos buscan es que no puedas hacer un dogfiht porque que tienes una bomba, y de esa forma estas limitado A SOLAMENTE USAR SU ESTILO. La mayoría de los pilotos no sueltan la bomba porque quieren volar con " honor" y si a alguien se le ocurre flanquear al enemigo, por las mismas características de que un avion es lento con una bomba, buscar a los droppers es algo tardado, entonces, te dicen cobarde para que SOLAMENTE VUELES POR DONDE ELLOS TE PUEDAN VER. La mayoría de los pilotos se enojan porque un camper está cerca de su aereopuerto impidiendo el avance enemigo, se enojan porque ESTÁN PERDIENDO y abogan y usan el argumento del honor para que todos hagan lo mismo que él. Muchos pilotos confunden ADREDE E INTENCIONALMENTE el camper con el spawnkiller, porque en general el spawnkiller es mal visto y buscan el desprestigio del otro. La mayoría de los pilotos tienen una ENORME CONTRADICCIÓN al decir que el spawkiller es permitido cuando ya estás por llegar a la base enemiga con tu bomba, y entonces bajo esas circunstancias el spawkiller es permitido, acaso no notan la ENORME CONTRADICCIÓN ? Defender tu base es increíblemente MÁS NECESARIO CUANDO EL ENEMIGO ESTÁ CERCA DE TU BASE, y entonces porqué es permitido el spawnkiller? ABSOLUTAMENTE TODO EL ESTILO DE JUEGO TIENE ENORMES CONTRADICCIONES. Y no, esto no se trata de " honor" se trata de que son muchos los pilotos que si se permitiera el uso general de tácticas y estilos, esos pilotos se encontrarían con el pequeño problema de que no son tan buenos pilotos como ellos creían. El honor está siendo usado como pretexto para desmeritar otros estilos de juego, lo cual es un sí mismo un acto hipócrita

And one more think, Kant said that with the intention of making each individual one critical capacity, to analyze what you are doing, and thereby accept the responsibility of somebody else can make the same. and that the same is needed here, many just insult those who do something different, but not are set to see the lack of logic in their own actions

A very interesting and intelligent post, Finn. Thank you for giving us your perspective on these topics.

I believe everyone has a well-developed knowledge of the difference between right and wrong, honorable and evil. There are gray areas, sure, but things can be kept simple in the end. The golden & silver rules, a general philosophy of utilitarianism, and a mutual respect to your fellow human should be enough to keep something as simple as a virtual online game running peacefully.

Of course, this is never the case. People don't perform bad actions because they have a broken understanding of right and wrong; they perform bad actions because they feel they have sufficient justification to do said actions. For example; I know that dropping is bad, but I will drop if I need the extra agility to defend my base from imminent attack. I feel that I deserve a certain advantage towards an enemy that is sure to win without my intervention.

This goes back to what you said about the issue of war.

The majority of humans do not wish to fight and kill other humans. Everyone knows killing is wrong, period... right? But like I said before, we do these things once we find a justifiable reason to do so, and everyone has a different reason. Things like "honor in war" and "victory over the enemy" are not mere illusions we humans make up to hide the horrors of war, but rather (IMO), very real ideals that are a product of our nature. In instances where golden rules become gray and blurred, and the fires of passion take over, people turn to a more primal state that we cannot deny.

It's the reason why we enjoy shooting down others in our little virtual game. It's the reason why you have to fight the temptation to shoot the plane on takeoff in the back. It's the reason why you have to make a choice to drop or not; to sneak or not. You get to decide if you're going to play by everyone's rules, or do your own thing under the justification that this is just a game.

People come here to have fun by their own definitions, and sometimes this will clash with others. We will all just have to learn to get along.

from the time someone thinks that good and evil is already defined and can not be questioned, since then, all philosophy and logic is thrown away

Well from what lil i could search for,TASK looks like people got fed up with offenders and maybe limited number of people you call mods,so they just went for an,eye for an eye. There will always be jerks on here as its just a way to bully others,until they are banned forever..i mean when a blue shoots me then laughs well its time to have fun..and i will spawnkill till im banned for 5. No use in reporting them,just make their stay here miserable...my opinion only,all play as they seem fit.

idunno wrote:

DD | v/hiplash wrote: .

Welcome to T.A.S.K.

Here you will find the dishonorable players list of team killers, traitors and spawn killers. Please post with the names and offenses of pilots who either kill players on their won team (blue), bomb their own hangars, spawn kill in tank or relentlessly spawn kill in plane. This post will be updated so the entire list can easily be viewed. There is also a printable version for download(coming soon). If you are on this list and disagree please post and explain why.

======================================
T.A.S.K. List
======================================

JIHAD *** SYUHADA	Team Killer
scouserT	Team Killer
killer beans	Team Killer
Moondoggie08	Team Killer
Sackoff_Knitler	Team Killer
EE Orange	Team Killer
####'s	Team Killer
NENADNNN	Team Killer
Dreadnought	Team Killer
noblegas	Team Killer
Stratocaster	Team Killer
Jose Vega	Team Killer
rfate	Team Killer
Killer596	Team Killer
Dylan Sing	Team Killer
Lplates	Traitor
rogercolley	Traitor/Potty Mouth
Kero Zen	Spawn Killer
Lowenhardt	Spawn Killer
Bizmart	Spawn Killer
Discoball	Spawn Killer
Masa50	Spawn Killer
kkhoty	Spawn Killer
~~~°°~~~	Spawn Killer/Potty Mouth
teat	Potty Mouth
Dan-Dan	Potty Mouth
Watch Only
Mr. Mejia	Team Killer
ktm530	Traitor
Dynomite	Team Killer
Tary	Spawn Killer
Night Piggy	Team Killer
Mousestone	Spawn Killer
GRAZT-MOSLE	Potty Mouth
Lieutenant Col	Team Killer
Rambo III	Team Killer

T.A.S.K.E.R.S.

Who are T.A.S.K.E.R.S.? They are TEAM AND SPAWNKILLER EMPOWERED REVENGE SOCIETIERS, not vigilante, but harsh payback teachers. This is not for the feint of heart kids, here you will shed your decency briefly to make this game playable for decent members. YOUR mission if you decide to choose it..is KILL. There will be NO warnings given to transgressors, if you see them doing it, kill them, let the system warn them. Then post here for all of us, pics of your schooling is welcome and encouraged. FREEDOM IS A ROAD SELDOM TRAVELLED BY THE MULTITUDES.

DOWNLOAD LIST

I dont know how to post links yet..but i found this dead/old thread..is this still practiced?...

Today only nine of the 36 names would still be on the list due to the new mechanisms zuperman has coded into the game since T.A.S.K was flying. Those nine are all for spawnkilling.

Well if and when someone starts another T.A.S.K squad count me in...now with no mods we could sure use another squad like that!!!!Hmmmmm ideal brewing.....

So lets spread the horse's ashes around a bit more...

There is one well known dropper in this game, named Bubi. He never chat too much. He only plays.

A couple days ago, I was in a game against him. When a guy asked him to stop dropping, he simply said:

"I play to help my team, not yours".

Think about it. And sum to it the fact that this is JUST A GAME...

By the way, I am not a dropper, I just believe everyone should have the right to play the way they want, without being judged... Well, except for teamkilling - but the game itself already has a countermeasure for teamkilling; so, lets cut the crap, lets stop taking this game so seriously and lets simply play it, for Pete's sake). Please. PLEASE.

Then why have the forum?...just download and,play however. Form up off forum websites as most have to talk strategy or hangout. If its,just a game, then mods are not needed as the system warns us of language,etc..and blacklist what?..things the creator has accounted for?...so,youre right..let the game,as it is just that,..begin.

Pedrinho, I’m glad you posted. I always enjoy your tone in conversations. I admire your logical / no BS style.

Your example with Bubi, I think, is a perfect one. Bubi has his own system of honor mainly helping the Blues, which is something I should have included in the collective DF code. I’ve fought against Bubi as well, with no judgment – annoyance – but no judgment. He moves to the beat of his own drum evidently.

Still, I don’t think this thoughtful discussion (Thanks Everyone) that has carried forth on this thread is “crap.” For example, I can’t help wondering how long a bombing mission would last if everyone shared Bubi’s “code.” The discussion has a purpose.

Also, when I started, had I been able to read a post like this one, it would have saved me a bit of time and embarrassment. As you know, this discussion is all over the place, and most pilots don’t like a bad reputation especially because of simple ignorance or nube-ism. I like to think I have helped in some regard. Thanks again.

Sorry for the "crap", Finn. Really.
I need to learn to be more polite with my words. I appologise for that.
I just think that we should concentrate our forces to fight team killers and dirty-mouth pilots, which, by the way, are popping on DF skies last months...
Please, accept my appologies.

No apologizing needed. I wasn't offended, but thanks for the gesture. As I mentioned, I enjoy your comments and threads.

You are a Dogfight purist. I respect that.

I, on the other hand, have just finished my Grad degree in composition, rhetoric and genre studies. This forum lingo stuff is what I study/studied.

Finn...

However yet...I'm looked at as having a bad reputation for "retreating to reload" because I dont help a teamate to bomb when doing so would be camping....I try not to camp because I dont like the bad reputation by those who complain about camping....but when I do something to avoid being called a camper I'm considered not a teammate.....thats why I'm starting to support what Pedrinho is saying on all of this.....

Thankfully spawnkilling is clearly defined and everyone knows what it is. Its only which spawnkilling is acceptible that is for discussion...Camping on the other hand no matter how one clarifies it cannot be clearly defined and is totally subjective.

Thanks for starting the topic.

When I started to play, I didn't know about any of this........like most of us. Not a clue what to do but trying not to get shot down and gain as many points as possible.

Newcomers should be informed on the things you write, but they'll figure it out eventually......untill then the experienced players will put up with their ignorance.

What I did notice though is that the atmosphere in the game changes, and not for the better.
You discribed the US and THEM with good humor......

It made me wonder though if SQUADWARS would be a good idea.

Now the bad and ugly reds are the gallant and fine blue of the next game, and our judgement of their actions are a bit moderated by our realisation that also this game will pass.

Squadwars will devide us, and that will not make this game better.

I share your opinion regarding squad wars; lets wait and see, though...

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Thanks for starting the topic.

When I started to play, I didn't know about any of this........like most of us. Not a clue what to do but trying not to get shot down and gain as many points as possible.

Newcomers should be informed on the things you write, but they'll figure it out eventually......untill then the experienced players will put up with their ignorance.

What I did notice though is that the atmosphere in the game changes, and not for the better.
You discribed the US and THEM with good humor......

It made me wonder though if SQUADWARS would be a good idea.

Now the bad and ugly reds are the gallant and fine blue of the next game, and our judgement of their actions are a bit moderated by our realisation that also this game will pass.

Squadwars will devide us, and that will not make this game better.

All we need its a officially rules from zup. That's all. Then we can't not say what it's wrong and what's not
If zup say nobody can drop, then, droppers gonna be something banneable. That's all

If Zup believed sneaking is bad, the map would have only 300 feet high, no space behind hangars, and only 600 feet from east to west.
If he wanted to prevent dropers, he would simply give no bomb button; instead, he would make bomb fall automatically when the plane goes over hangar or carrier.
If he wanted no campers, he would implement an automatic autodestroy feature after every bombing.
And so on.
As Zup himself already said, play the game as you want.

PERIOD.

P E R I O D !

[LB] Pedrinho wrote: If Zup believed sneaking is bad, the map would have only 300 feet high, no space behind hangars, and only 600 feet from east to west.
If he wanted to prevent dropers, he would simply give no bomb button; instead, he would make bomb fall automatically when the plane goes over hangar or carrier.
If he wanted no campers, he would implement an automatic autodestroy feature after every bombing.
And so on.
As Zup himself already said, play the game as you want.

PERIOD.

P E R I O D !

No Pedrinho ! Estaba esperando que alguno que estuviera en contra llegara a esa conclusión solo jajajajaja

And pedrinho. I like ur use of "period". To those who whine and complain about period. Well stop whining ( period).



I agree with your last statement.

Well, what do you think of this scenario?

I was in a 2 blue, 1 red game this morning, the red didn't mind so we started our first run, I bombed, but when other blue bombed, he started camping and not just for a couple kills, he quickly spawnkilled the one red about 5 times, laughing the whole time.

I told him to stop politely, and to go get a bomb, the red was also asking him to stop, but he did not. I told him to stop again and again, he had now spawnkilled the lone red about 11 times, still laughing.

I then told him that if he did not stop, I would shoot him. Ofcours, he didn't listen and I shoot him, he then asked me, "whyd ya do that for?" I told him that what he was doing was not acceptable and that he shouldn't do it again. The red thanked me, and him & me got into a DF, the red shot me, and I spawned back at base. The blue then dropped and started trying to shoot me down over & over, I told him to stop, but he shot me down 3 times.

Then 4 reds joined the game, and the blue switched. It was now me against 6 reds, the red who had been the camping blue, started egging on the other reds to shoot me, he avoided fighting me himself lol, and eventually left.

---

I did this because in a game & in real life, how you act shows who you truly are, and standing up for anyone in need is what I have always done, if it means I'll loss points, so what? I feel I did the right thing.

And just because there is no rule that tells you not to do something, doesn't mean you should do it...

Mr. Finn,
That, my good friend, was one of the most enjoyable editorials I have ever read. So articulately expressed! I believe you defined DF, it's allegorical meaning, it's intent, and how all should seek to approach their engagement within the parameters of the game. Well said Capt'n .

Best Regards,

--=PAWS=--

When I see one of these guys doing this kind of thing, I don't even lose my time trying to explain him how to behave. I just ask him to stop it. Just once. After that, I shoot him. And after doing it, if he keeps doing it, I simply quit. There are always another server, another new session.

I don't think writing some ethic code would work, cuz the ones that needs to learn ethics wont read these "ethic manuals". And even if they read it, they wont change their minds. Its a waste of time writing it.

I just play. Its just a game.

RedBaroness wrote: Well, what do you think of this scenario?

I was in a 2 blue, 1 red game this morning, the red didn't mind so we started our first run, I bombed, but when other blue bombed, he started camping and not just for a couple kills, he quickly spawnkilled the one red about 5 times, laughing the whole time.

I told him to stop politely, and to go get a bomb, the red was also asking him to stop, but he did not. I told him to stop again and again, he had now spawnkilled the lone red about 11 times, still laughing.

I then told him that if he did not stop, I would shoot him. Ofcours, he didn't listen and I shoot him, he then asked me, "whyd ya do that for?" I told him that what he was doing was not acceptable and that he shouldn't do it again. The red thanked me, and him & me got into a DF, the red shot me, and I spawned back at base. The blue then dropped and started trying to shoot me down over & over, I told him to stop, but he shot me down 3 times.

Then 4 reds joined the game, and the blue switched. It was now me against 6 reds, the red who had been the camping blue, started egging on the other reds to shoot me, he avoided fighting me himself lol, and eventually left.

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I did this because in a game & in real life, how you act shows who you truly are, and standing up for anyone in need is what I have always done, if it means I'll loss points, so what? I feel I did the right thing.

And just because there is no rule that tells you not to do something, doesn't mean you should do it...

Thats the diference between a tactic and a abusive actitud. If I was in the same situation I was make the same off you