Ohh the lag, that wonderful "excuse" I use to blame all my programming mistakes. You see, anything that happens in the game and that is bad, sometimes I tell... but other times, the conspiracy theorists believe, it's just me hiding some deep inside glitch. Until the NSA finds out, or wikileak throws some light... you'll have to believe me. It is lag.

The problem is that as every conspiracy theory, there is no way to prove it wrong or right. Like... who killed kennedy? or, did we really landed in the moon?

Really, was that lag or is just Zuperman awake at 4 am doing something machiavellic?

Logic dictates, it is lag... but... are you sure?

In any case, I'll explain lag for people who believes me and follow logic. The others, well, move on, nothing I say will matter because Elvis is still alive, we have a secret base in Mars and area 51 has aliens.


Lag is just a delay in communication. Nothing else. It happens in every single online game in the world. If you send data from Chicago to Madrid, it jumps from server to server until it arrives. It does not travel in zero seconds, because those servers may be sending other data, downloading porn, getting torrents... you name it. Wikipedia has an entry for it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag

Let me explain this visually. Whatever happens in an online game, such as Dogfight, is a virtual world that has to be synchronized. Let's have two theorical pilots playing. Pilot 1 is in Chicago, and Pilot 2 is in Madrid. The servers in between that will transfer the data are saturated because everyone is downloading the last episode of Games of Thrones. This means that whatever Pilot 2 sends from Madrid to Chicago, will take 1 minute to arrive.

So right now, we have the two pilots in a collision course, flying at 100 km/h in a straight line. This is the real picture:




Now the question is, during the next 1 minute, nobody will get any data at all from the other pilot. So, where will airplanes be in 30 seconds and what will happen?

The servers estimate it based on the current speed. So this will be the prediction in 30 seconds:




You see, we have no clue if that's really what happened right now. What we know is for sure what Pilot 1 will see. He will see the enemy flying right in front of him, in a straight line. He will then fire fire fire!!! and he will get those nice "you've hit pilot 2!" messages in screen. Because, that's what his phone predicted should happen. But remember, we are not sure because only 30 seconds have passed and we are not getting any data or real position from the other airplane until 30 more seconds!

What did really happen?





Ok, now a full minute has gone by and we get all data to both sides. This is reality. Pilot 2 saw Pilot 1 coming, so instead of flying into his line of fire, he decided to turn around and evade. Pilot 1 shot in the air to nothing. Pilot 2 got no damage at all because he turned.


In short. It sucks for Pilot 1. He thought he had hit 3 times the red plane, but in reality he hasn't done a single scratch! Why? Because Pilot 2 turned, but Pilot 1 didn't see it until 1 minute went by.

Pilot 1 will throw his smartphone to the floor. Come here. Insult the whole world and call Pilot 2 a cheater.

Reality? Nobody cheated. Pilot 2 just evaded the fire. The only problem was people downloading Game of Thrones between Chicago and Madrid. The connection sucked!

This is lag... and that's why having a fast internet connection and picking a server nearest to you helps.
But i'm sure there is a conspiracy theory for this that will explain it way better! I just love to mouse draw in Paint

Aaaahhhh tienes un filoso sarcasmo lógico muy bueno pero nada especial en tus habilidades con paint jajajajajaja

Zup,
Im sure most of people knows how lag works and how servers and traffic helps increasing the lag problem.
But what has been discussed these days here on forum is how players CAN create lag purposedly, by saturating their own connection, controlling how much data is being thrown up and down through their home cables/wires at a given time. Althought it is something weird, unlikely and "conspiracy theoristical", it is quite feasible, and doesn't require a hacker's skills.
And what we've wondering on the forum is if there is some way to implement some code to be put inside the game's servers or even inside the game apk file itself, to measure the user's internet speed (lets say, each 30 or 60 seconds), just to be sure he/she is playing at a comfortable and playable speed - and, if not, the game kicks the player from the server (or the server kicks the player from the game, whatever the case).
If it is not a feasible feature, please let us know, because I can't see another possible solution, and all we have to do is to learn to live with this issue forever.
And go buy a better mouse, please... lol

Hi ZUPERMAN. I think lag is well known and also accepted by most players including myself. It's frustrating but workable.

I believe that there is controlled lag by a certain few. I've seen it and experienced fighting against it. As of a few weeks ago i didn't really believe in the LAG CHEATS however i now do.

Its a great game you created, i sincerly hope you listen to some of the players here and look into the problem.

Lag switch explained for anticonspiracy theorists.

Stolen from Wikipedia:
Artificial lag[edit]
In the peer-to-peer gaming model, lagging is what happens when the stream of data between one or more players gets slowed or interrupted, causing movement to stutter and make opponents appear to behave erratically. By using a lag switch, a player is able to disrupt upload from the client to the server, while their own client queues up the actions performed. The goal is to gain advantage over another player without reciprocation; opponents slow down or stop moving, allowing the lag switch user to easily outmanoeuvre them. From the opponent's perspective, the player using the device may appear to be teleporting, invisible or invincible, while the opponents suffer delayed animations and fast-forwarded game play, delivered in bursts.[3] Some gaming communities refer to this method as "tapping" which refers to the users "tapping" on and off their internet connection to create the lag.

The term "lag switch" encompasses many methods of disrupting the network communication between a client and it's server. One method is by attaching a physical device, called a hardware lag switch, to a standard Ethernet cable. By flipping the switch on and off, the physical connection between the client and the server is disrupted. The newest generation of gaming clients have built in protection against lag switches in the form of voltage detectors, which detect a change in voltage when the switch is flipped. Some manufacturers have taken counter measures to bypass or trick this detector.[4] This can also be achieved by simply unplugging the Ethernet cord going to the client, causing a disruption in the player's internet connection. Other methods, called a software or wireless lag switch, involve using a computer program. In this method, the cheater runs an application on a computer connected to the same network as the client. The application hogs the network bandwidth, disrupting the communication between the client and its server. However, one cannot do this for an unlimited amount of time. Usually, having no internet connection for 30 seconds will cause one's character / player to be kicked from the game due to inactivity / no internet connection.

In the peer-to-peer gaming model, lagging refers to a player with a faster connection flooding an opponent(s) using a basic denial-of-service attack outside the game structure.

of course you can create lag. All you have to do is get into the same wifi with your computer and begin downloading a big file.

What happens though, is that the whole thing will go slow, so you have no control over your own actions either! that's where conspiracy occurs. Yeah, everyone will see you jumping randomly on screen and maybe not hit you, but the part that is missing is that the person lagging will also see you jumping randomly on screen and shoot at places where you are not located!

In short, creating lag on purpose to win a game is like setting your own house in fire to avoid termites eating it.

ps. the server already has a system to detect lag. If it lags badly, it will get kicked from the server and get a connection lost.

So is there a way to add a weak signal kick to the game?

Some of these guys fly endlessly from one side of the map to the other. Not just a little lag a lot of lag making them unkillable.

tell me nicks of some of those guys, i'm 100% sure it's not done on purpose but if i don't have any names it's just a myth.
Every name I've got so far was perfectly fine, their connection was just horrible.

Search the unkillable laggers thread for known consistent laggers.

The terrible connection is what we are getting at. Induced or not If it were coded in to the game to limit the time a poor signal was allowed then the debate would be over. And the lag switch would be a nonissue and useless.

zuperman wrote: tell me nicks of some of those guys, i'm 100% sure it's not done on purpose but if i don't have any names it's just a myth.
Every name I've got so far was perfectly fine, their connection was just horrible.

End of discution for me. I will just learn to play against laggy players. I will avoid being on a server with more than one of these well known laggers. That simple.

Thanks, Zup.

zuperman wrote: tell me nicks of some of those guys, i'm 100% sure it's not done on purpose but if i don't have any names it's just a myth.
Every name I've got so far was perfectly fine, their connection was just horrible.

Sorry Z but some of them are doing it on purpose. We've all played with them enough to see it.

Remember the mustache??

~~~~••~~~~

He played from SE asia and lag made him one of the most hated players ever.

Conspiracy or no, i wish the system would boot players wayyyy before they are lagging as bad as that.

[LB] Pedrinho wrote: Zup,
Im sure most of people knows how lag works and how servers and traffic helps increasing the lag problem.
But what has been discussed these days here on forum is how players CAN create lag purposedly, by saturating their own connection, controlling how much data is being thrown up and down through their home cables/wires at a given time. Althought it is something weird, unlikely and "conspiracy theoristical", it is quite feasible, and doesn't require a hacker's skills.
And what we've wondering on the forum is if there is some way to implement some code to be put inside the game's servers or even inside the game apk file itself, to measure the user's internet speed (lets say, each 30 or 60 seconds), just to be sure he/she is playing at a comfortable and playable speed - and, if not, the game kicks the player from the server (or the server kicks the player from the game, whatever the case).
If it is not a feasible feature, please let us know, because I can't see another possible solution, and all we have to do is to learn to live with this issue forever.
And go buy a better mouse, please... lol

hold up, now. I'm not exactly rich, buddy. I can't afford a whole new internet program, just because you don't like that my current one is slow sometimes. i.don't deserve too be kicked or play on a "special needs" server. My b advice? GET OVER IT.

BlüEMäX wrote: Search the unkillable laggers thread for known consistent laggers.

The terrible connection is what we are getting at. Induced or not If it were coded in to the game to limit the time a poor signal was allowed then the debate would be over. And the lag switch would be a nonissue and useless.

I already checked those a while ago and their connection was just bad. Now, the suggestion is to ban people that lag? well, not on my watch. For the obvious reason that the laggers get disconnected more often than not automatically (also search for disconnected/lost connections threads) and they gain zero advantage as explained above. They hate lag as much as everyone else and once they figure out a fast connection they move to that.

Umm...

BTJ582 wrote: Umm...

I knew it.

Thanks zup. Sorted. Back to work for me...

BTJ582 wrote: Umm...

I knew it! Michael Jackson is alive and well on the moon!

Elvis isn't alive?

In any case I think lag should be much better since we got a bunch of servers. We have over 40 machines running at peak hour all across the world thanks to Microsoft Azure. I see lag from time to time but it is largely reduced compared to how it was last year.

Aww yea paint rules lol.

Thanks for the detailed explanation Zup.

Try appe...in all the games I had with him....could never bring him down...he gets 30 rounds into him and he appears behind mw and downs me....its like he's bullet proof and and a teleporter

When are we going to get a "Down Under" server Zup?

I my self think its really funny that people are whining about lag. Just think of it this way people Lag on games is Oweing the IRS you will get away from it? HELL NO you won't. So why cry about lag? Who cares if some makes lag on purpose or has a lag switch is it really going you kill you? I think not. And also on that not everyone can afford the high speed internet. And even if you have high speed internet you still get lag I have the highest speed fiberop has on it but it still lags I do t cry about it I just play

Thanks Zuperman for your your explanation!

I started to think that it was MY BRAIN having problem processing all that visual data!

Thanks Zuperman.

I appreciate you taking the time and working into early morning hours in order to provide us the developers perspective on lag. Sounds like this isn't the first time either.

zuperman wrote:

BlüEMäX wrote: Search the unkillable laggers thread for known consistent laggers.

The terrible connection is what we are getting at. Induced or not If it were coded in to the game to limit the time a poor signal was allowed then the debate would be over. And the lag switch would be a nonissue and useless.

I already checked those a while ago and their connection was just bad. Now, the suggestion is to ban people that lag? well, not on my watch. For the obvious reason that the laggers get disconnected more often than not automatically (also search for disconnected/lost connections threads) and they gain zero advantage as explained above. They hate lag as much as everyone else and once they figure out a fast connection they move to that.

I surrender.

zuperman wrote:

BlüEMäX wrote: Search the unkillable laggers thread for known consistent laggers.

The terrible connection is what we are getting at. Induced or not If it were coded in to the game to limit the time a poor signal was allowed then the debate would be over. And the lag switch would be a nonissue and useless.

I already checked those a while ago and their connection was just bad. Now, the suggestion is to ban people that lag? well, not on my watch. For the obvious reason that the laggers get disconnected more often than not automatically (also search for disconnected/lost connections threads) and they gain zero advantage as explained above. They hate lag as much as everyone else and once they figure out a fast connection they move to that.

Zup, then why are the same pilots doing this all the time, disappear when being shot and reappear behind the shooter sending him down in flames all the time. If your answer is, the player lagging just happens to have a weak signal all the time. Ok then maybe the game should have some prerequisites listed on the game store df page concerning the proper voltage and internet service required to properly play this game.

Please take a look at Blue Max's post #181019, earlier on this thread and review the video link he provides on this very subject. After doing this and discovering how easy it is to make one of these lag cheat switches plus the reason given for it. You have to believe that this is more than possible the reason for the low voltage these players may occasionally have (as you have explained) plus all the testimony given by numerous players victimized by them. And if you're still not convinced I respectfully suggest changing your name temporarily and enter a game with them when and where they normally play and see for yourself what's going on.

Heck Zup, myself and other players have witnessed these pilots bragging (considered an admittance of the crime under exclusionary rule) and planning to go in to a server for the specific purpose of lagging.

Your honor, the Prosecution has nothing further and rests their case.
Mach2

This topic needs to get glued on first page.