Zup. Can you fix it so that I have the long overdue last update from Amazon before I shell out any more money please!!

Game is worth more than that to me Zup. I think you are being very generous with your pricing. I would pay $5-10 a month or $40-50 lifetime to play df.

Is there no way to implement hosted games.Even back in 89 when i used to play df(delta force) or ILS you could host games and once Novalogic stopped the server because df landwarrior was comming out you could still play.im not tech savy so dont shoot me down.
All those wanting to pay silly money above the proposed amount go ahead,the option is there now,go buy 3 million uneeded coins.For every player subscribing to $40 you will lose more than 10 that are willing to pay $5-10.your financial calculator isn't needed for this one.
Im still shocked the game is free.When did that happen?The old timers here had to pay for the game and no one batted an eyelid then.How did you expect to gain revenue with a free game.Even with these present servers that are free it should have been your opportunity to scrape up those pennies with people payin for the game aswell as upgrades.
Also this game may not be seen by alot of people whos internet is monitored or have public access to a hot spot.When i was in hospital i could not access over their wifi because the title/url had dogfight in it so was blocked.
Nvm im still in favour of 5-10 pa.

Paul Mantz, Jr. wrote: Read ZUPERMAN'S post again :

$1 monthly OR $5 lifetime.

That's what Zup said, but others are suggesting no one time fee, and more money for monthly

Zup you should make 2 new planes. Keep in mind this is just a idea I had but bring back the D8 for the German side and I know there's a mono winged allied plane as well but don't remember the name and charge $5 in actual money for the plane instead of using game money. That might help ?

Don't think a one off fee is a good idea, it would be a short term fix only. The best way would to have a month/ yearly fee with the first month free ( that way you get people in the game for nothing and when they get hooked the will gladly pay a fee to keep it). If people cant afford the fee then there should be an option to reapply up to a set number of times for the "free" month. Hope something gets worked out ,life would be a lot duller without DF.

Estoy de acuerdo joaquin su con eso se consigue mejorar,una cuota al mes claro no muy alta seria una buena idea.siempre,que despues se pueda jugar con garantias,toda la gente no le cuesta lo mismo,quiero decir que hay que poner un precio al mes adecuedo a que todos los pilotos lo podamos realizar.bien mensual o anual.1o2 euros al mes estaria bien o 5 o 10 anual.hay que.tener en cuenta que luego se compran otras por otros muchos pilotos,de hecho yo comprare algunas monedas para subir mi caja y adquirir mas aviones a mi coleccion un saludo joaquin no es mala idea dejar gratis tambien algun servidor.un saludo.

i've never given any money to echoboom. the only thing i can buy from them is dogfight coins which i don't need or want. i get them for free. i've long thought that a "donate now" feature would be nice. i have no problem at all giving money to someone providing me with a service, but again, i really don't want or need to buy any dogfight money because i earn it. let me know a company address and i can send you a money order for more than $5.

zuperman wrote: Hi

I've got notification already that the free servers from Microsoft will be gone shortly. Meaning, they will cost an arm to keep running. That's why I had to begin moving servers today and you saw some hiccups for a few hours.

Since I don't want to shut down the game because there is no way to pay for the servers with the purchases on the game, I thought of this idea and let me know what you think.

The servers will be divided into free and premium. Free servers are going to be very cheap low end machines but as soon as it gets a few dozens users I would expect lag. At some point they will get full and people will be required to wait until they unload. All free for everyone.

And then, we will have premium servers. They will have the fastest connection I can afford and be as powerful as possible. Less lag and more space for all pilots. So what would be a fair cost for that? Nobody will be forced to pay, but I'm thinking of maybe $1 a month or $5 for the whole life of the game?

I think it's fair, because I can't support expensive servers right now and people who never purchase anything and keep playing for months are just lagging the connection for everyone else, so at least the pilots that support the game will have a better connection and option to play even when the other servers are full. Any thoughts?

Zup there is a big prob . My mom and dad uninstall the game frequently lol saying i should study.Then i have to get very good marks. I dont think mom and dad would pay for the game. Zup but if 5 dollars foreverr i can do that but please dont increase the cost more than tht. please

This is the problem.NO ONE HAS PAID FOR THE GAME for i dont know how long.im still in shock and quite annoyed tbo.The paying customers of this game endured months of ghosting while win8 was being integrated and that whole time and since then none have had to pay anything.Recipie for disaster.
All those sat at home on expensive pc's and devices worth hundreds think it should be free.Can't believe we've been carrying them for so long.
As for not needing coins cos you earn them anyway,sry its a cop out,look at the buy coins button as a donate button.

lol Raunak I was thinking that yesterday about your situation.. your mom seems strict so I could probably cover yours

Mr.[LF]Becken wrote: lol Raunak I was thinking that yesterday about your situation.. your mom seems strict so I could probably cover yours

I too was thinking how he would react

Mac wrote: Disappears for 3 months, lets game go to hell, ignores moderator promises, lets dogfacesoldier and others run rampant, then returns for literally no other purpose than to ask for money.

Seems legit.

Give me proof that this product is going anywhere, then we'll talk.

I love ya, and I love this game, but I'm not one to waste money, no matter how little. I could use that one buck a month to buy a Snickers bar.

I've spent almost $50 on this game, I've defended you, and I reached the limit in that "Squad Wars new members" thing you did. Where the heck did all that revenue go?

Edit: To those who are going to rip me for being a jerk to Zup, look at it this way.

All the times I nicely gave feedback and requests clearly didn't amount to much.

I agree with you Mac "Give me proof that this product is going anywhere". My question is do you need money to start the premium like a start up cost or will you make the premium version then add the price ? If you make the premium version and "publish it" then that's different because we know its there then we can buy premium. But list what premium offers that way we know where not buying the free version but with a fancy name. and I suggest upping the price to $12 a year don't sell your self short if you plan on making the game better with more updates and features and $12 is affordable its just $1 a month

J4ff is also right. Some of us DID pay for this game, myself included. I thought it made no sense when the pre-paid version disappeared. I paid $3. Not a lot, but still something. That's $3 more than every single player to download the game.in the last few months combined, if you think about it.

And I've bought coins, but only after I'd upgraded my SSIV/D8 with only money I'd earned.

Ö

Mr.[LF]Becken wrote:

Mac wrote: Disappears for 3 months, lets game go to hell, ignores moderator promises, lets dogfacesoldier and others run rampant, then returns for literally no other purpose than to ask for money.

Seems legit.

Give me proof that this product is going anywhere, then we'll talk.

I love ya, and I love this game, but I'm not one to waste money, no matter how little. I could use that one buck a month to buy a Snickers bar.

I've spent almost $50 on this game, I've defended you, and I reached the limit in that "Squad Wars new members" thing you did. Where the heck did all that revenue go?

Edit: To those who are going to rip me for being a jerk to Zup, look at it this way.

All the times I nicely gave feedback and requests clearly didn't amount to much.

I agree with you Mac "Give me proof that this product is going anywhere". My question is do you need money to start the premium like a start up cost or will you make the premium version then add the price ? If you make the premium version and "publish it" then that's different because we know its there then we can buy premium. But list what premium offers that way we know where not buying the free version but with a fancy name. and I suggest upping the price to $12 a year don't sell your self short if you plan on making the game better with more updates and features and $12 is affordable its just $1 a month

That the game is going somewhere would be plausible if there would be some new features. (Such as posted before) everyone understands thát. Server capacity, how much lag.......it is to vague to really sell.


Personally I would let this fuzz quiet down and just come out with another level, or an extended version of the game. Everyone would love that. Slowly shift capacity from the current version to the new, extended, second time paid version and everyone lives on happily ever after. If the chat is accessable from both versions, most would like to know what they are missing out on.

deleted by me

I believe I've already paid for a "lifetime". Maybe it was in dog years? Or a small fish? Amoeba?

Zup! Sounds good to me. For now! I haven't read what all has been said, but I do remember "buying" this game for about $5 after first starting to play. Then of course more for planes and upgrades etc. I'm not complaining! If $5 lifetime would improve the service for existing players I'd gladly pay it. I'm assuming you work for echoboom which means DF needs to be profitable or Kaput! That means proper pricing and continued growth in game players/scope etc. If 5 bucks gets it...Great! What I want is the game to continue, improve,(less lag for instance),and become a more secure on going concern. Paying any reasonable premium for that is acceptable to me, provided you deliver the product.

[M]Pagan Avenger wrote: Don't think a one off fee is a good idea, it would be a short term fix only. The best way would to have a month/ yearly fee with the first month free ( that way you get people in the game for nothing and when they get hooked the will gladly pay a fee to keep it). If people cant afford the fee then there should be an option to reapply up to a set number of times for the "free" month. Hope something gets worked out ,life would be a lot duller without DF.

No free month, pay up or don't play, too many times I've seen chat on WC about playing the free period then opening a new account with different email or such, to carry on playing for free. Straight $15 for a year up front or get the feck out!

and just what becomes of DF if the proposed new plan doesnt happen? do you think it is going to continue business as usual? and get fixed?

McFate wrote: $1 per month
or
$5 per year

And...

Monthly payment required for paint jobs. (after 30 days the paints would go back to the original stock paint)

Quoting myself here, but really, think about it....

$1 / month or $5 / year is in line with what zup is asking but by having it $5/ year instead of forever would insure some additional revenue.

As for the paints... I would be a voluntary conribution enforced only by pride and vanity. Anyone could play with the standard paints, it would have no effect on performance. I doubt that many of the higher ranks would be seen playing with standard paints. Special commemorative paints could provide some additional income.

Perhaps squads could have their own paint schemes, or just choose their preferences. Imagine if every squad member would be voluntarily paying $2- 5 / month.


I've played other games where you could pay for some upgrades with in-game credits and others with $$$ credits. Some are permanent others are temporary (for a month or so) It seems to work as a business model. The bummer comes when the $$$ upgrades provide much higher performance.

Where is all the revenue from all of these noobs. Every time i see a noob these days, he has a better plane than i do! And that's because they are coming into this game and buying their way into having the same top tier planes that i have been working my butt off for, for the past year. Where is the justice!
I would gladly pay a one time fee for this game. But ONLY if there is gonna be some new aspects brought to DF. I don't know about everyone else, but i am getting really bored with these SAME OLD MISSIONS.
When (IF) you take this game to the next level and bring something new to the df community (like squad wars or even some different types of missions), then my credit card and i will be the first in line, Zup. UNTIL THAT TIME COMES, U WILL NOT SEE ONE RED CENT FROM ME.
I am sick and tired of the boring bombing missions. And when i do get lucky enough to stumble upon a dogfight, everyone RUNS. WOW!
This game desperately needs a shake-up. I WOULD PAY ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS TO SEE THAT

I don't like the "fix X or I won't pay". The issue is that there isn't any money to pay for the servers, let alone hundreds of man hours to fix each users pet bug/issue (we had a chance to fund DF Elite but not enough signed up, that would have been new missions, new planes, new maps).

If you like the game enough to play it, wart's 'n all then just pay a few measly $$.

I have paid a lot of money into this game (a few hundred), not because I needed the points, not because it was a bribe to fix an issue but to help throw Zup some cash to show that I appreciate his efforts.

I have read all of the posts so far and it seems all who have posted so far are agreed that in order to keep the game and community alive then they are willing to pay. Some folks, however, are of the opinion that if they have to pay, they want to see some major improvements for their money. I just want to clear a few things up.

LAG ON SERVERS

Lag is not usually caused by the server itself, but by the players. Servers work by being in constant contact with a player, sending and receiving hundreds of messages per second. If a player logs on to a smooth running server who has a very slow internet compared with the other players, 'lag' effects begin to be observed. That user may not even be in the same game as you, but as the server is waiting for responses from their device, all games on that server begin to lag. No amount of investment in faster running servers will combat this, it is all down to the individual players connections. The only way to beat this is for the server to automatically disconnect the user that is causing the problem. This means writing extra code to be embedded in the game to detect when there is a problem. This costs time and money.

EXTRA GAME TYPES

Some folks have suggested a wider variety of games to be made available to the 'premium' paying players. At the moment this would not be possible as it means writing extra code to be embedded in the game. This costs time and money.

PAYING FOR EXTRA UPGRADES TO PLANES

A few folks have mentioned paying for 'power-ups' such as more powerful ammo or faster, more manoeuvrable planes. While this may add extra killing power to many pilots, all others who cannot afford these upgrades will be left at a dis-advantage. As the game stands at the moment, those who cannot afford upgrades are already dis-advantaged, it would be unfair for 'super-planes' to be widely available. Plus, all this would take extra code to be written, which means, you guessed it, more time and money.

CONCLUSION

Basically, what I am trying to say is, if you want to keep playing the game and having fun, you will have to put up with it as it is for now. Any major game developments will have to be done when the game starts making money, rather than costing Joaquin his own time and money to keep it running. I am sure if Joaquin puts in a pricing structure then it will be fair with all players budgets worldwide considered. This problem of financing has been caused by Microsoft deciding to move the goalposts, nothing more, nothing less.

I hope we can all pull together to resolve this. It would be helpful if we are all pulling in the same direction!

But there IS a server-based lag, or at least something that affects all players in a game instead of just one. And it seems to happen when the servers are at capacity; in the past, when this has happened, Zup has (eventually) added a server, and then the player-wide lag seems to go away.

Just reporting on the symptoms.

Nice seeing you in-game earlier KK.

Manfred

Is this game perfect? NO, Is it the game that has us all hooked? YES, Does anyone have a pile of cash to just throw away? NO, BUT, I believe enough people "will" contribute. I for one have enjoyed most of the time I have spent here. I will gladly dig into my pile of cash to keep playing this amazing game. There are no other games like this one.

I have been avoiding this one to see everyone's ideas and opinions on this first and there are some great ones! and let me start by saying i can and WILL support this game so that it can and will continue. With that being said though...

Me: Why do we have 50 member cap? Squad wars...... really?...... really? .......really?

ok next question...

Why do we have 8973892689398339829290747302374.7 wonderful pilots willing to donate/volunteer their time and effort and stress level to being a mod but not ONE single word about it???...... really?...... really? .......really?

Why to play with a friend must we have to back out and pray to the lord above that we can get a plane on the opposite side, then..... we must pray AGAIN that we land in the same game we just left? This can be solved with making use of the currently useless "friends" list by adding a "join game", "private game", and/or "invite friend" to a current game. The private game would open the door for team practices and games like hide and seek, tag, or even tank tank goose if a squad were to want to LOL it would be awesome and the possibilities are endless!!

Why do we not have a way to speak/type in game to our team without the enemies being able to intercept? teamwork and tactics would improve and tremendously improve gameplay!!

Why does it seem now that we are left in the dark about DF with no idea of what is going on? I realize you are busy and we all get that, life comes first, but NO word on squad wars, you post about mods with a date that has now long past. And now I wonder if you will even post again on this thread before Christmas... LOL ok im exaggerating now (or am i?

I do not imagine these things are as difficult as some requests you must get including terrain, planes, new missions (which would be great btw), but my point is these are things we are already told were coming and we are making concessions ("squad cap" but no squad wars and "Mods" are coming but no mods) and then the other suggestions ("team chat" and "join game") seem to be fairly easy improvements that would satisfy MANY!

I love DF and will gladly pay to support this game and LOVE the idea of the "premium" servers but please DONT do $5 for a lifetime, the loyal guys will pay, some random players will pay, then what? new players alone that download DF will not support your servers. $5 per year would be ok, but i agree with others i would pay that per month personally. and if it was only $5 per year i will gladly pay for GI Mighty and a few others that may not be able to due to parents or economic situation. But please just give us some feedback and a little follow through from time to time, it doesnt take much to please these guys around here! especially HULK!

PLEASE ZUP post a reply and let us know your thoughts on this and what others have said as well! We look forward to hearing from you again!

Joe just lengthily articulated the entirety of my argument.

We are not asking for fixes. We are not being unreasonable. We are asking that Joaquin Grech, Echoboom employee, and sole holder of responsibility regarding development and upkeep of this game, show up for work. If Joaquin does NOT show up for work, at least explain WHY he is not showing up for work, and not PROMISE to show up for work.

He has shown no ability to show up for work in recent days, or even explain why he hasn't

Make sense?

Prove you're actually doing anything. ANYTHING. And I will give you any amount of money.

You get the benefit of the doubt a lot, it seems.


There's an old saying in Tennessee, it's probably in Texas too.
"Fool me once, shame on....



me. Fool me twice.....

You fooled me, I won't be fooled again."

Manfred wrote: But there IS a server-based lag, or at least something that affects all players in a game instead of just one. And it seems to happen when the servers are at capacity; in the past, when this has happened, Zup has (eventually) added a server, and then the player-wide lag seems to go away.

Just reporting on the symptoms.

Nice seeing you in-game earlier KK.

Manfred

Yes, there is some server based lag under load. A server only has some many cycles per second, so much bandwidth to the VM for the price paid (which was free on the part of MS Azure). Hence Zup's offer of a premium DF which has better servers, and a basic, which is a best effort, will be laggy more frequently (buy you can pay to get onto the premium servers after).

It wasn't Tennessee, it was The Who.