I'm assuming it has been updated to be in all servers now.

Apple used to take a 5 min ban in one server and could jump to either of the other 2.

May be Davy can tell us. He took a 5 on EE Orange recently.

What does Davy say?

Thanks Marty and Manfred. Every one always has a better way of saying what I'm thinking.

I think that the whole "points lost for a team shot" is wrong...."team kill"....I dont know...I go back and forth on this ...wiggy (minus the curse) got me REALLY to think on this and I kinda agree to a point on that...

Why do we loose points for a "bullet shooting a blue"....but dont GET points (maybe partial points compared with a kill) for shooing a "red wing"?..Why is it -500 points as well I thought originally it was -200?

a "team shot" is not a "team kill"....and if we have negative points for a bullet that is a "team shot", then we need to RECEIVE points (albeit partial compared to an enemy kill) for a successful "enemy shot".

Accidents happen and an inadvertant "bullet" you shouldnt loose points....Inadvertant "team kill"? maybe...thats open for discussion....

Guys....I play a TONNNNN...and "teamkilling" is a totally bad thing to do and Im VERY strict on that, but I dont see too many pilots if not at all any "intentional teamkilling" going on. Lower servers?...Im not part of cause I have never had a second account...I cannot speak for the lower rank servers.

For the sake of argument, maybe TASK has outlived its useful life? ....I sure havent seen too many teamkilling intentionally going on and I play ALOT.

I agree with Wig on TASK...but I dont support passes...

O god not Lois. Ooof.

Just because you don't see it, it doesn't mean it don't happen every day.
You play like you said a tonnnnn Swop, and I play a.. well a lot.
Do we play together even every other day?
The answer is NO.

Some players you never get to see and some you meet every singel day.
So to say I don't or very rarely see any intended teamkills, might be correct to you but total bogus to another.

I DO agree with Swop on the points for hitting a red.
To many times the screen shows this:

You hit x
You hit x
You hit x wing
You hit x
X killed by someone else

I don't like that. Do you?

(not directed at Bell)...If you have a problem with my response....take it up with Wig....cause I agree with him on this issue....

Bell...I see your point and you make an excellent one...I do play at different times though and its not always the same times of day....Its pretty random with the conclusion I observed as well....I do know I'm on (Central USA Time Zone)....so maybe its worse at 03:30 (military time) when I'm obviously not playing...I have no way to say "yes" or "no"..Fact remains I do play alot....with no "intentional teamkilling"

O god ! Not Lois. Ooof.

Was this thread about you agreeing with TASK or its usefulness?

Have I not established the fact that I don't care what your opinion on TASK is? Take your Prozac or ritilan.

Next you will want me to dismantle the "Lois Lane Fan Club" simply ludicrous.

Pure cazyness boy o.

Peace out my love.

PS stop kissing Wigs ass.

Max....do you care about Wigs opinion on TASK? Wasnt there others who mentioned TASK on this thread? I sure wasnt the first pilot to bring up TASK on this thread.... Others have stated what I have said on TASK and I'm only repeating what they have said.. Why the need to single me out? talk about ludicrous...

Im, not kissing no one....Just stating something where there is agreement.

I can smell a lie like a fart in a car.

There was an obvious amount of boot licking going on some where. I'm not blind. Just call em like I see em.

Do your thing. Dignity is over rated.

Wasnt there others who mentioned TASK on this thread? I sure wasnt the first pilot to bring up TASK on this thread.... Others have stated what I have said on TASK and I'm only repeating what they have said.

stating an agreement is not boot licking..

It would be interesting to know since your a MOM if you care about Wigs opinion on TASK....

I already knew you dont care about my opinion on the issue ....that was not the point...

Ok Lois, I will bite this time.

The only opinion on TASKing that I value is my own.

Other MOMs may disagree. Other players may disagree. I'm cool with that. Doesn't mean I have to care.

Still doesnt change how, why, where, or when I will do it.

Doest thou understand?

Now I offically unjack this topic. You may now resume your regularly scheduled boot licking.

Some folks may call me a fanatic player who maybe plays a lot. WELL YES I AM, AND PROUD OF IT.

ZUPERMAN has created a great life escaping game. Teamkilling has not been as much of a problem since the point rating changed except for a couple mentioned above who should be banned permanently.

When I got banned i had to wait the full 5 minutes. There has been a lot of talk on chat about about the evils of teamkilling and reduced points for doing it.

I also believe in TASK. These new young players seem to not like being TASKED.

As a MOM i care about WIGS opinions. I think that I disagree with him on several things however we all share different thoughts and should respect the opinions of others until an intelligent solution is found that supports the majority's view.

ZUPERMAN, keep up the good work.

So after your 5 min ban Davy, could you still play in another server? After you smashed EE Orange could you jump servers?

You put the opinion thing way better. That's what I was getting at.

Funny how I can write and never quite express what I mean. Guess that's why I don't write for a living. Probably a good thing. There is always someone that expresses what I'm trying to say better than I do.

You are a poet and king of the wild frontier, Davy

But max you said the only opinion that you value is ur own while davy my good friend values wigs opinion on this like me. Please dont call davy a kisser like you clearly implied i like davy and i dont want to see him cry like he did with my good friend BTJ. Davy i value ur opinion even though i disagree with some of it.

Davy. Im sorry max doesnt value wigs opinion like you do.

This is really annoying me, a few accidental misfires, and I am set back a game. Hard when you are trying to make MORAF by Christmas.

No one plays Dogfight more than I, at more varied times of day and night, for longer stretches at a time, across a wider variety of (3) server locations. I play regularly with every contributor to this thread, we are not seeing different, isolated corners of the game where I luck into "clean zones" and fate hammers you with every team-killing noob. I occasionally encounter a team-killer. If team-killing were the epidemic problem it's painted to be here I would see it. I don't.

Joaquin is correct, this discussion is working overtime to address a problem that does not exist.

Moderators have greater control than suggested. We are not limited to five minute bans. We can and do go online at any time and ban whomever needs banning until Festubert freezes over if necessary.

Joaquin has answered more than once the allegation that a ban in one server zone does not carry over to all three. It does. Still, neither TASK nor Moderator imposed sanctions nor points penalties will ever change human nature. Team-killers, spawn-killers, users of inappropriate language will always exist. In comparatively small numbers. The fervor of our team-killer-hater collective is dramatically out of proportion to the percentage of the overall player base that elects to break the unwritten rules.

Joaquin, please remove the points-based penalties. They do very little to deter bad behavior and do much to discourage those players who play clean, particularly the young players (like RAPTOR Jr.) who are forming their initial impressions on whether Dogfight is a game they'll continue with and recommend to their friends. Games like this one live or die by word of mouth. If the word of mouth is, "You play and play and play but you end up losing points for making mistakes while you're trying to learn." the user base will not grow with the speed or dedication that it should.

--w--

I don't honestly see any problem with the large penalty for killing a team member. If you hate it then pay attention to who is around you. If you are team killing 1 or 2 people every game then you got a big problem. You either don't pay attention or don't give a dam if there is a blue right in front of you. If you are not willing to pay attention to the blues around you and if your to lazy to slide off to the side a bit so there is no chance of you hitting the blue in front of you, then you should be punished. I am sick of being in the middle of a turn fight and some team mate at a long distance shooting carelessly downs me 3 or 4 times in a game because they don't pay attention they better dam right be losing points for it.

When there are a few blues in front of you its your job to move over and get a better firing position so you don't take them out. It is not the job of the pilots up front to get clear of that guy behind him shooting at the same red. A few reasons why it is not there job to move out of the way for the pilot be hind him.

The pilot infront is more focussed on the enemy in front of him and dose not have time to look back and make sure he is not going to get Team Killed by the guy behind him. The guy in the back of the group can see his team mate in front of him and the enemy with out having to look back. He also is the guy that is very likely not the guy all the enemy aircraft are targeting. The pilot in the back can easily and effortlessly adjust his position to get good firing in on the red with out nailing his team mate.

The guy in front dose not have time to make sure he is not going to get nailed by the guy behind him and never should have to move out of the way of the fire from his/her team mate behind them.

Most of the accidental team killing I see is during head to head fighting where the guy in the rear of the group is lazy and dose not reposition his self to lower chances of hitting his team mate. If your going to be lazy and let your laziness cause you to kill a team mate then you deserve that punishment.

I can understand accidental team kills in a mass turn fight because of the rate of which the planes turn 360 degrees is quite fast. Team kills in turn fights are also very rare.

Really all you guys need to do is be a bit more cautious and move over a bit.

I team kill people every now and then because it is going to happen no matter what you do. But when I just pay attention and move over a bit I rarely team kill people and can still get the job done. When I do team kill I do deserve that 1000 point reduction. 1000 points is only 20 planes. You should be able to kill more than 20 enemy craft per team kill. And if you can't there just has to be something wrong with the way you fly and think when you play.

Zuperman Do leave the point reduction like it is. Maybe people will pay more attention and not ruin the game for some one else for fear of loosing all their points. To many times I have been close to bombing close to taking out a large group of planes and close to saving our team from losing by killing a plane about to bomb to only be killed by some idiot trying to shoot between my wings and right under and above me to kill the plane I am about to kill. And because my plane is in the way their shots don't hit the red and we lose a game because of it and miss a good bombing. It really pisses me off when people get greedy and do that.

I couldn't disagree more, Sky. It sounds like you have a personal ax to grind, your experience is by no means universal.

When I'm leading the charge into a red base I'm either brooming the path in front of me and my following teammates or they're welcome to fire over my shoulder if I'm not getting the job done. Why so serious? A simple "sry", a "np" and get back in the air. A teammate trying to help clear the way is not "lazy" or "greedy", (ridiculous contentions that could be insulting to a ton of us) he's just doing what he's there to do. If you've been back-shot enough times to be "pissed off" you need to get out of the way. Spin back around and let someone else lead if you're skilled at "moving over".

No one should lose twenty kills, or two kills, for merely trying to do his or her part to win the game for his or her team. I wouldn't want you assessed twenty or thirty kills if you accidentally clipped me, I'd say "np" and move on. Consider doing the same.

--w--

I can agree with sky on one point.
I hate it when you are in a good hard chase and have been fighting hard for several minutes to get that red, just to end up being shot down by a blue from far away.

And to say that's only 20 minutes to regain those points.. well good for you.
I never said that I'm one of the best and never will, but I aint no noob either.
1000 points in 20 minutes would be 10.000 in 3 hours 20 minutes.
If I'd where to do that it would be a good day. I used to say no less then 10.000 a day but now I'm glad to make it to that even though I often play 4-8 hours on a day.
I blame the quitbug for that. I have noticed that if I get back in same game again I almost every time have lost 1 death, never a kill, but points I don't know.
Adding 1000 points penalty for a blue turning into your line of fire...
That might be the last drop, at least for me.
I love this game and might very well be one of those android addicts but I'm on the edge right now.

I've repeatedly had lag cause me to hit blue planes. You fire off a shot way to the side of the guy in front of you, and then everything jumps this way or that way and you end up hitting your own guy.

Also, it's very common if reds are doubled up to have one shooting at you while the other is taking on the guy in front of you.

So... My point... Accidents happen. Taking away points from a good player who has a few whoops moments is asinine, and taking the game WAY too seriously.

We all know the difference between an accidental kill and a teamkiller. Mods, don't just TELL us about how you can ban these lowlifes, do it. That would solve all of this bellyaching about people who have the occasional screw up. And yes, I have those occasional screw ups.

$.02

I've changed the servers and put them back to the old way (because this is a repeat of history, yet again)

Anyway, you will get -50 points if you hit a friendly plane and -200 if you bomb your own hangars.

I think it makes more sense than losing 200 and 1000 points. You can hit by mistake, 50 points is it not a crazy amount but enough to stop people to do it on purpose.

Thanks Z.

Nothing is more off putting, requiring more than nerves of steel, than those W8 phantoms, for want of a better term, spawn kill you numerously from their own air field. To add insult to injury these people, who are the ruination of a fabulous game, go on unpunished, not to mention the numerous points they accumulate. The time and the distraction of messaging them and warning them, which inevitably puts you off your game, even to the extent of exiting the game. This element in the game should be dealt with, as should TEAM KILLERS. I am a pilot many know will not stand for W8 phantoms.1000 points per kill, so what, how about 24 hr ban. TEAM KILLERS, just get rid of them.

Skystone wrote: Nothing is more off putting, requiring more than nerves of steel, than those W8 phantoms, for want of a better term, spawn kill you numerously from their own air field. To add insult to injury these people, who are the ruination of a fabulous game, go on unpunished, not to mention the numerous points they accumulate. The time and the distraction of messaging them and warning them, which inevitably puts you off your game, even to the extent of exiting the game. This element in the game should be dealt with, as should TEAM KILLERS. I am a pilot many know will not stand for W8 phantoms.1000 points per kill, so what, how about 24 hr ban. TEAM KILLERS, just get rid of them.

Skystone, the Windows 8 problems are independent of intentional game ruining. Their Win8/WinPhone8 operating system doesn't sync with Android or Apple. Those phantom kills we all find so frustrating look, from their perspective, like clean kills of planes within their range. They have no idea that they're seeing you flying in front of them while you're seeing yourself sitting on the airstrip or flying with no reds in sight. They're frustrated, too. The fix is either in and hasn't propagated yet or it's soon to be released. Perhaps Zuperman can drop a quick line here to tell us what we can expect when, I know it's a situation he's well aware of and has addressed in the recent past. The expectation is that Windows will sync up with the other OS's soon.

On the other hand, if what you're talking about is a team-killer who happens to be using Windows that's an entirely different matter. If a teammate kills you intentionally Windows 8 is no excuse. Report any such players to me, another Moderator, or to all of us via the Blacklist thread.

--w--

bellsaj wrote: I can agree with sky on one point.
I hate it when you are in a good hard chase and have been fighting hard for several minutes to get that red, just to end up being shot down by a blue from far away.

And to say that's only 20 minutes to regain those points.. well good for you.
I never said that I'm one of the best and never will, but I aint no noob either.
1000 points in 20 minutes would be 10.000 in 3 hours 20 minutes.
If I'd where to do that it would be a good day. I used to say no less then 10.000 a day but now I'm glad to make it to that even though I often play 4-8 hours on a day.
I blame the quitbug for that. I have noticed that if I get back in same game again I almost every time have lost 1 death, never a kill, but points I don't know.
Adding 1000 points penalty for a blue turning into your line of fire...
That might be the last drop, at least for me.
I love this game and might very well be one of those android addicts but I'm on the edge right now.

20 kills is what I said not 20 minutes. Just to clear that up.

Wig I see your point view but I do believe that blue following closely behind another blue or just right behind them should just slide over a bit or fly up or down below them a little ways so they don't let a bunch of led loose into the blue guy in front of them. I get irritated when I am leading a pack I got my dot on the enemy And I am letting lose killing enemies and then the guy right behind lets lose his guns and his ammo goes streaking by inches away from killing me and then he slides over or over corrects his aim trying to hit the red but instead falls to the side and nails me.

Its annoying be locked on to a target shooting them and then you got to break off because the guy blue behind you is about to kill you if he or you make one small slip. I honestly think people should be smart enough to be cautious and slide over a bit more so they don't have to risk that. When people do hit me like that it can be solved by a simple sorry and no problem just be more car full next time. But I get shot down like this by team mates just about every other game more than once because the guy want to follow me in right on my tail and thinks he can shoot between my wings.

The -500 point loss per shot on team mates I saw and see as a thing to reduce accidental team killing. Knowing you will lose 500 points for 1 hit on a team mate and 1000 for killing them would deter people from trying to shoot between peoples wings and motivate them to just move from behind the guy and get a better position. I was hopping that because of it we would not have to worry about people trying to make those ridiculous trick shots that have high chance to nailing there team mates.

It also would add a interesting aspect of the game. I don't think in the middle of a war your going to get a promo or it will be set back when you kill a friendly aircraft. That is what this was simulating. You kill friendlies a lot and you wont rank up. That would make people try hard to not kill a friendly and reduce team killing considerably.

Thats my thoughts and views on it anyway.

Well, I can't say I didn't see this coming....

ParrotHead wrote: Well when this all goes to hell, I guess I'll take full blame.

Thanks Zup,
For listening and acting.

I've type at least 3 thoughtful drawn out responses and at least one snotty one and have either gotten a failure, timeout or just deleted them. So, now I'll post this not-so-well-thought-out- but-still-drawn-out reply

I stand behind my original opinion that there should be a penalty. Having experienced huge point penalties myself, both for accidental kills and teamkiller thumping, the increased 200-500/1000 point penalty were too high. I think the penalty should match the points you would receive for a red kill/hangar. I'm not sure from Z's post, but I also think the penalty should be for kills, not hits. I guess when I get a chance to play I'll test it.

I also disagree with the thought/position that teamkilling isn't a problem. I do not play "a lot" anymore and I still see it in every round (hour or 2+) of playing. When a noob or habitual TKer joins up the disruption really is minimal most of the time. The players in the game will usually work together to run them off. However, when they take out hangars there is no recovery. It has impacted that game and cannot be repaired. This is the offense that gets me spun up. I probably never would have reached the level of frustration that I did when I made this suggestion if this weren't possible. Solution- make hangars immune to friendly bombs, like the carriers. As for the plane shooting teamkillers, give the mods back the "power" of extended bans. I think a 1 week max sentence is enough to get the point across. 2 days(or less) could go completely unnoticed, but cover a weekend and I bet we see results. The way the system is now, I don't even report anymore, except to back up somebody else's report.

Joaquin, I love the game and am probably as guilty as anyone for taking it too seriously. When pilots behave badly it has a real impact. It's not insignificant or non-issue. It's pilots like me that support the game, leave repeated good feedback on the app stores and spread the word to get more people playing. You've shown that you listen to us and I appreciate. It's a truly remarkable way to run your game.

Wig, for the record, you point that the extreme punitive penalties will discourage new players was the real sell for me. Other points.... I can live with disagreement.

To everyone... I knew this would turn into a heated discussion, but I really appreciate the fact that it stayed civil. Love this community!

(In a rare mood... Didn't proofread.... I'm sure I'll hear about it)

What Parrot said, I agree. I parrot it. Couldn't have babbled it better myself. Exactamundo.
Manfred

Joaquin, if you're seeing this, is what Parrot suggested possible? Making hangars immune to friendly bombs just as carriers are?

The penalty structure you've reinstated; -50 points for killing (not merely for hitting, right?) a blue makes all kinds of sense to me. Thank you for that.

Immunity against team-bombing blue hangars is, I feel, the "brilliant idea" the title of this thread promised, it just took us a while to work our way around to it. A simple, elegant solution, Parrot, and one that would go a long way toward undermining the efforts of players striving to ruin games. If the immunity could be extended to blue tanks on blue hangars as well, that would be ideal. Blue carriers are immune to friendly tank fire, aren't they? I've never tried nor heard anyone make reference to it. Take away the option of deciding to sacrifice 200 points for the thrill of screwing your teammates and team-bombing suddenly doesn't exist. At all. Never to happen again. C'est finis.

It's clear that we all have random ranges of experience with differing degrees of team-killing. A Universe driven by randomness and chaos is bound to produce all possible points on the team-killing spectrum. (It was ether Einstein or Carly Simon who said that, I always get the two confused.) If I saw incidents of team-killing in every two hour session I play I'd have callouses on my "Ban" finger. I see it happen maybe once a week, if that.

Points well taken, Sky. (so to speak!) I agree, Parrot, a good exchange all around.

--w--