One more person shoot's me in the back after dropping my bomb, One more.... I'm about sick of being called a camper when I try to just survive... I try to leave and you shoot me in the back....Nice....call me a camper and shoot me in the back..... I shot you down a couple times trying to get away.... then You shoot at me again as I'm trying to leave.... AGAIN.... In the freakin back... I didn't have a Bomb Jack-A-Donkey.....

Someone better explain camping and do a good job of it..... I've been shot in the back too many times after dropping my bomb..... WHILE LEAVING..... This camping crap is a bunch of BS....

Start a Fire and eat a freakin Marshmallow....Holy crow.....Roast a HOTDOG....Poo behind a tree...I don't care....

When I try to leave the enemy base or carrier to reload, and someone senss a stream of bullets my way, I used to say (as a mod), "Pardon me sir, but to avoid getting shot in the back side, I am going to turn around and come defend myself." Zup would approve of those words. Nowadays however, I am allowed to use the colloquial shorthand of "Eat my bullets you turd I was on my way outta here." And with that, I would dive back in for a defense that might not look like a defense to the uninformed. In fact, having killed the offender, Imight find myself much closer to their airport (again), and new spawners would target me in defense. To which I would have to defend, to give myself any prayer of ever reloading.

Sorry, you wanted a definition of camping. The above scenario is most definitely NOT camping. And since no one but you (or someone watching clowe and live) can truly know what transpired to result in that final scene, no one but you (or someone watching close and live) can declare you a camper. That even precludes a moderator (despite seemingly telepathic powers) who is not on the scene.

And who gives a crap anyway, as camping is not bannable? Okok, you care and I care, because the accusation damages reputations. Hey dent, all we can do is come defend ourselves if ever accused. I like to take a lot of screenshots when I fly, and sometimes those help in showing what really happened.

Manfred

Getting shot in the back after I deliver a payload doesn't make me mad per say, it just makes the round trip take a bit less time. But I do scrub off the return trip and turn around and fight if I get shot at (they are only trying to clear the skies of enemy players and defend their base). I also try to make sure after I drop my payload I am not at the end of the runway (in sights on freshly airborne players).

What I can't stand is being killed while my wheels are still on the ground, having no way to evade the incoming shots during takeoff (and getting killed over and over by the same player). That is my definition of spawn killing, or they somehow make it to your runway in a tank and sit at the end shooting just spawned players (spawn camping), or the enemy continues to fly around the enemy base after he dropped his payload Strafing the runway (with no team mates in sight) killing newly spawned players that don't have the chance to get airborne (spawn camping).

The only way I remain at a enemy base after I drop my payload is if I have known team mates (seen on radar) with a payload. But I allow the enemy to get airborne to give them a chance to defend, but I'm an not flying around directly above the base Strafing the runway killing players trying to take off.

The only other time I am around a enemy base is if I am in a Zep game and attacking the zep that's close to the enemies base, or when I am defending the zep and its over or close to the enemy base, but I still allow the enemy to take flight.

I see the problem as a team inequality rather than camping. What I mean is when the teams are fair this problem doesn't exist. To get all the way to the carrier or base and be able to camp is a feat all on it's own and then to sit there and hold a base or carrier also incredibly difficult with fair teams. You would have to have crazy skill and the other team should protect their base or carrier and remove you. It is of huge benefit to have the airport or carrier tied up fighting rather then shooting you as you are coming in with a bomb. So I say if you are able to do it, go for it...there are no noobs on our server so we are all somewhat capable of removing a camper but this is only for fair teams.

With the teams the way they are I generally don't shoot at all at the lonely red. I try and dodge and I message them that I wont shoot them to give them a chance, at least they can shoot something. So how do you decide what is fair? 7 vs 1 isn't fair no matter how you slice it and we are all trying to feel good about the way we play but I say without the game bugs we don't have this problem.

I get very upset when I cant get far enough away for me to get in my tank...thats when the real fun begins unless setting on the other side of the mountain lobbing tank rounds into there hangars is considered camping. Its all about staying alive right? Its hard to say from week to week how we are supposed to play the game. Unless its KAF 1...Then I have a tent, hot dogs, and beer that I just bought from Manfred...because im hanging around then I usually get shot down before the first hill anyway lol.

Absolutely correct WHIPLASH, when i spawn into a game with seven reds circling it is more the fault of the server than the players and i don't expect the players to all run home just because of being afraid of being called a spawn killer. I relish the challenge of trying to get up and hit someone. It teaches you how to aim fast and quick and on the spot, that is if you get up. It's fun folks.

Now what i don't like to see is when the games are relatively even and then you have the one guy picking off all the spawns. THAT IS A SPAWN KILLER. Stays there the whole game and turn and shoot and kill. I try to say something if he's on my team

However if its a red learn how to lead him away from the airport by twisting and turning, then when you get shot down again and spawn you at least have some real-estate to work with, or when he has to chase you it gives another blue time to shoot him.

Bottom line, you will never have a perfect group of pilots so can use each and every incident to LEARN, PRACTICE AND GET BETTER AND BETTER.

Sorry, I'm old and tired and just wanted to say this. I hope i make sense.

PS i bought a hot dog from MANFRED. This is what a got. I was afraid to taste the beer he sold me

I think the whole "camping" issue is complete bullish!t. Let em get off the ground, then roast them. Fly back to base? Why on gods earth would you do that? So that the rest of your team has to go at it alone against all of the reds at that base? That's crap, and if its going to become the expected procedure, then the rules of this game have gotten WAY out of hand and I'm done with it.

This is a very broad subject open to many levels if interpretation. I'm really concerned with one particular type of camper..the type who drops upn take off, goes high or backdoor, and shows up at my base bombless, waiting on fresh spawns. This is the type of camper whose sole intention is to CampSK. The mentality behind that is pure evil a-holeness but they always cone back with the same poor excuse: "anything to win" or "just supporting my team" Oh yea? How are you going to win without a bomb I say? I'm a competitive personality and win most games without spawn camping whatsoever. .no sir, I don't buy it, SK camping is BS...other types of campers I don't mind as I an handle that NP

Captain Noushbag wrote: This is a very broad subject open to many levels if interpretation. I'm really concerned with one particular type of camper..the type who drops upn take off, goes high or backdoor, and shows up at my base bombless, waiting on fresh spawns. This is the type of camper whose sole intention is to CampSK. The mentality behind that is pure evil a-holeness but they always cone back with the same poor excuse: "anything to win" or "just supporting my team" Oh yea? How are you going to win without a bomb I say? I'm a competitive personality and win most games without spawn camping whatsoever. .no sir, I don't buy it, SK camping is BS...other types of campers I don't mind as I an handle that NP

He's going to win by keeping you busy long enough for the rest of his guys to get there. Once again, it's called teamwork.

The counter to that is to set your brakes, throttle up and then take off in a hard turn. Then kill the guy if you can out dogfight him. I think the name of the game is Dogfight, ya know???

Sorry Noush. My bad disposition is not aimed at you. I do believe that an awful lot of you are trying to make the game very complicated though, when it really doesn't have to and shouldn't be.

Jack, you might of read too fast..Im talking about Sk campers..you say yourself" let em up" in the post prior so you also don't agree with sk camping. We are talking about the same type

10-4 Max. Glad we agree


I probably should put the phone down for now. I'd hate to have my bar liquidated, and the frame of mind I am in could probably get me there.

I'll tell ya what will surely stop the crap..... as soon as we drop our bomb's no more bullets and immunity....There add that to the game.....

And thanks for responding..... I know what camping is.... I'm about sick of being shot in the back trying not to be a camper.....

Oh Pheckit, this is so stupid....what am I b*ching about. LOL, love ya all like brothers. Camp, SK, wear dresses ...virtual world is one place we can be free...remember what's more important than winning is the people behind those iPads and phones. They SK, I TASK, Davy bombs buildings, we are all a big happy family

I don't mind spawn killing. I just don't do it because the vast majority of you guys seem to disagree. I learned to play by getting my butt handed to me over and over and over. There is really nothing in this game that can be done by one, that can't be countered by the other. Runway immunity covered that. I do remember getting spawned before the plane was operable, and that sucked, but I accepted even that. The problem with overregulating anything is that it invariably becomes a witch hunt. Keep the rules simple, and enforce the hell out of em. Beyond that, shut up and fly the plane.

Captain Noushbag wrote: Oh Pheckit, this is so stupid....what am I b*ching about. LOL, love ya all like brothers. Camp, SK, wear dresses ...virtual world is one place we can be free...remember what's more important than winning is the people behind those iPads and phones. They SK, I TASK, Davy bombs buildings, we are all a big happy family

FINALLLLLLYYYYYY ANYONE ELSE.....ANYONE........ANYONE...... HAHAHAHAHAH PHEW I feel better now.....


Thanks Noush

Jacklpe wrote: I don't mind spawn killing. I just don't do it because the vast majority of you guys seem to disagree. I learned to play by getting my butt handed to me over and over and over. There is really nothing in this game that can be done by one, that can't be countered by the other. Runway immunity covered that. I do remember getting spawned before the plane was operable, and that sucked, but I accepted even that. The problem with overregulating anything is that it invariably becomes a witch hunt. Keep the rules simple, and enforce the hell out of em. Beyond that, shut up and fly the plane.

AND YESSSSSS AGAIN...........ANYONE ELSE ANYONE ANYONE............ANYONE..... thanks Jack...

The one thing in dogfight I miss from a couple years ago was how the game was played. Most games went this way. The game starts every one takes off and heads for the enemy. They kill each other along the way but a few guys on one team would live through the first wave and usually the second wave and some one would make in to the enemy base they would bomb or get in enough trouble they drop and instantly start dogfighting to hold the reds down. The rest of the team would show up and bomb. The guy that originally was holding the reds down would then leave while the rest held them down. He would then come back with a bomb and finish the game.

The games where quick and the team that had the best turn fighter usually won. I should actually say the team with the best turn fighter always won. Back then the logic was if you can get to there base then you are doing good. So why in the hell would you leave after you make it to there base and bomb when you could get your hands on the air superiority and hold it till some of your team mates returned with there bombs and ended the game. Games would last 30 minutes at max even when the best players where going against each other.

Why the games worked that way was because no one had much of a problem with camping or spawn killing because every one did it. Most people did not mind it because when they got caught in the fire and where the ones getting there @$$ handed to them they got better.

The game was played as a strategic war game. Get ahold of the air superiority then take them out. This some times meant that a whole team of players as in 4 players all dropped there bombs at the start got ahold of the air and pushed the enemy to there door step and then two people would crash get bombs come back bomb then the other two would crash or die and get a bomb and end it.

The game was simple and complicated at the same time. The goal of the game was simple they way you flew was complicated because you where not judged or hated on because you used a tactic that made you win other than going down the center of the map head to head hoping you have just a good enough aim to to make it all the way to there base and bomb. Using different routs and different ways to win the game was looked at the same we we "you" look at people who are boring and carry a bomb down the center every time shooting in a head on. When I first started playing the game that if you went right down the center of the map all the time most of the aces and well known people looked at you and though you where some idiot. Now days its the opposite. If you take other routs or drop a bomb and try to get air superiority for your team your looked at like and idiot by the enemy and your own team.

Now all the fun stuff is ether outlawed or extremely frowned upon and every one hates you if you do it. Something I have noticed is that all the players that where around at the end of the major camping spawn killing age of dogfight "is what I will call it" are all very good players because they had to put up with the spawn killing and camping and learn how to dogfight and clear the skies over there base or there was going to be no hope for them at ever getting anywhere. Most of these players where good and where beyond amazing at around rank 10 and 15.

Now all the new players who have not had to deal with being spawn killed or there base being camped at just about every game, are not as good at dogfighting or being quick to hit a target. It usually takes them Months and about 20 - 23 ranks to get any good at all. All they seem to know how to do up till around that time is to fly straight aim ahead and shoot at that small dot under that red tag. If they miss the guy and he misses them and they fly past each other and there head on target was a player that is any good he would be turning around the very millisecond they fly past each other and will kill the new pilot. Even if the new pilot started turning I will promos you he will be turning at a rate that makes you think he has 2 or 3 bombs on him. Yes they eventually get good after things like this happen over a period of time and after they get destroyed in dogfights and zep games like there no more than a sitting duck they will eventually learn to dogfight or to not miss. But lord dose it take a long time for them to figure it out.

What happened is the newer members of the game which would now be the old members of the game decided to complain about spawn killing and camping so much that the old players that are now called the old old players basically all left. and with the new players we now have all this camping spawning complaining BS around that every thing you do in game where you are around a enemy base after you have bombed or even if you haven't bombed and you get more than 5 kills there you are automatically some mutated monster murdering innocent children.

People just need to calm down and if your getting spawn killed or camped by a player don't freak just stay calm use your brain get in the air keep him busy enough that more of your team can get up to help you with him and kill him. If you cant kill him even if you got your whole team up and by all means you just can not bring him down, then all I can say is that you have fairly and squarely lost that game. You let him get to your base and when some one gets to your base because you did not kill them well they have the power to what they like and if you can get up you have the power to what you like as well. You just have to figure out a way to do it.

Some one drops there bomb all the time and dogfights instead of flying straight in head to heads. Don't complain about it. Don't say fly with a bomb and help your team out, because they are helping there team out they are driving you back most likely if you are complaining about it and if your not using your brain and having some one drop and take him out or adjusting your head to head so you hit him anyway. Complaining about that is sad because you have the power to drop a bomb and dogfight him and kill him and push him back. Most people that play where they just drop there bomb and dogfight will leave the game instantly if some one shows them several times they are the better dogfighter and kills them multiple times. As soon as there dogfighting thing goes sower for them they might carry a bomb and go down the center or they will just leave. If you don't beat them in a turn fight then learn how to turn fight better than them if you want to win the game.

Same thing with any other tactic out there. You just got to adjust and counter it. If you cant, learn how to counter it. Even if you lose the game because of it you may have got better at countering that tactic and will do better next time.

What I am trying to say in a nut shell is stop complaining about what ever it is with a player flight style and learn how to combat it. In war you can complain all you want but nothing will happen till you learn to deal with it and make your self able to counter it.

A lot of people have asked me why I am so good or how I can last so dam long on a defense where it is me vs 7 others. I wont you to forget all the excuses I have ever told you on why I can do those well and I will tell you the truth. I keep a open mind and if something is making things difficult like people going high for instance, I will figure out a way to counter it for as long as I possibly can. I don't fly in a straight line shooting you all in a head on. No I try every thing I can possible.

There is one thing I will complain about and this is all you parachute aces lol. Its the one thing I absolutely hate with a passion I will take the time to say a small complaint. I just have a feeling that once your shot down by a plane in a ww1 game that is it you lost the fight and you go down with your plane. I am a hypocrite there though because I parachute and kill in it as well lol. I am just no good at it. And from hear on I will stop complaining about parachuters if you guys all stop complaining about camping and spawn killing and just play the dam game.

For those that don't like reading my long post. The post above in a nut shell is that your complaining about spawn killing and camping is all a bit of BS. Read the long post if you want the reasons why it is.

For just your opening thought to be reality, the game would have to populate with close to even sides, or at least not have 7 vs 1's happening all the time. We hardly see those kinds of balanced games anymore.

I do like the challenge of being the one lamb offered for slaughtering, as it has taught me skills I would not otherwise possess. It's done the same for many others too. But this notion of games being anywhere close to even sides is unfortunately a pipe dream until... I don't know when.

Manfred

P.S. but yes this is how it was played originally. Mbizzi would spank the crap outta me until I learned to turn and target.

Yea originally back then the games 99% of the time where games where it was all equal. 4 vs 4. We don't have that luxury now but the same thing really dose still apply. You aim to get air superiority. It wont work very well if it is a one vs 7. If its that way then you have to to play defender. But if there are 2 of you vs 6 as an example, you can then do your aim for air superiority. It will be harder and the getting in to bomb will be harder and if you do get the air superiority and go to hold it the bombing will be slow with one person going at a time. The thing is that you can still do it.

The next few updates are supposed to fix the team balancing system as well. So when they come we can look forward to even games, well I hope we can.

Dent, I understand the frustration. In most cases, after I have bombed and my teammates have either been downed or are no longer in sight I try to leave. BUT!!! When I see the first tracer fly past me, I turn and stay. I usually say something along the lines of, "remember I was leaving!"

Maybe I'm weird, but I get some satisfaction out of fighting my way to the target, bombing and fighting my way out again to reload. That's why I would want to leave, to answer whoever asked that question.

In outnumbered games, I try really hard to leave immediately, if at all possible. Otherwise, I don't feel bad about it.

I've been called out for spawnkilling twice in the last couple of weeks or so. So, maybe I'm a spawnkiller too. I'm not playing any different than I ever had (except maybe a little better ). I'm not taking it easy on anyone and don't expect it when it comes back to me. I do try to be fair and "honorable" the best way I know how. If that's not good enough for some.... Pheckit!!!

Sky,
I appreciate your walk down memory lane (not trying to be sarcastic at all). I've been playing for 9 months. I guess I'm with the kinder-gentler generation of Dogfight. I certainly complained about dumpers and still don't like it, but now I'll be the first to dump to counter. Point taken and agreed with. It's a strategy. It's point mongering. It's whatever! I don't like it but I deal with it. I still get my ass kicked occasionally too, but those occurrences are getting less and less. As far as spawnkilling goes, (even though I've been caught at it occasionally) I think it's bad for the game. It was worse when the servers weren't separated. It would drive new guys away. If you don't get anything else, get that. The game needs new players to continue. If a new guy gets SKed relentlessly, he's less likely to stay and pay the full nut for the game and the upgrades. Nowadays, if a new guys getting it, it's another new guy giving it. Nowadays, if I get SKed, I work it out and move on (and remember when it's time to return the favor).

Geeeezus! I wasn't even going to reply and now look! Anyway, the game has changed and the way its played has changed. Is there too much bitching? Probably. Is it going to stop? Probably not.

Yoy camping isnt my thing, really! Unless its like foust said KAF1. I come in drop turn and get a few on the way back to base/carrier. I occasionally have to turn and fight. But there are times when i fly off to the side to avoid being shot. But when some one drops, and is honorable enough to leave after droping, the fly right in to the path of incoming reds. And at that time im shooting evey one just to break through that wall of red. I am personaly sorry if i shot some one down after they have dropped and left. To avoid this i suggest goin high or wide to slow the confusion. I hate it my self being shot down when im on my way back to base/carrier. But what can be done about it? Even if we get every one to stop, there are still noobs who will rank up and keep it going.

ParrotHead wrote: Sky,
I appreciate your walk down memory lane (not trying to be sarcastic at all). I've been playing for 9 months. I guess I'm with the kinder-gentler generation of Dogfight. I certainly complained about dumpers and still don't like it, but now I'll be the first to dump to counter. Point taken and agreed with. It's a strategy. It's point mongering. It's whatever! I don't like it but I deal with it. I still get my ass kicked occasionally too, but those occurrences are getting less and less. As far as spawnkilling goes, (even though I've been caught at it occasionally) I think it's bad for the game. It was worse when the servers weren't separated. It would drive new guys away. If you don't get anything else, get that. The game needs new players to continue. If a new guy gets SKed relentlessly, he's less likely to stay and pay the full nut for the game and the upgrades. Nowadays, if a new guys getting it, it's another new guy giving it. Nowadays, if I get SKed, I work it out and move on (and remember when it's time to return the favor).

Geeeezus! I wasn't even going to reply and now look! Anyway, the game has changed and the way its played has changed. Is there too much bitching? Probably. Is it going to stop? Probably not.

Despite the fact most of you guys have or still do complain about this stuff I still like you guys and enjoy flying with you don't get me wrong. And yes the way the game was played back then did scare people off. Because of that I am against spawn killing but I am not going to have a cow because some one dose it. You guys can go ahead and keep going against spawn killing but do not go as fare as to make camping a crime. Us dogfighters out there need a chance to have our fun and to be able to use tactics to control the air with out having every one on a ranting raging anger thing because I flew around there base and killed them the very second they engaged me or tried to fly away from there base towards mine.

Chasing people off from camping as it is called would be hurt full to the game as well. I mean who want's to play a game where every one flies straight and shoots in head to heads die and repeat over and over and over till some one gets lucky and breaks and bombs. I would be board out of my mind. I already get board out of my mind. There is a reason people don't see me playing that much there is a reason I am not a rank 31. Every time I go to play how I like to play and that would be to enjoy a nice dogfight every few rounds. Every time I go to do that I mean it literally it feels like every time I break off that straight line and continues and predicable path of head to head fighting I get called a something along the lines of that dam dropper. Or something like your breaking the rules of the game by doing that. Stuff along that lines. It makes me want to tell Zuper to rename the game boring head on head shooting and bombing in ww1 planes. It just drives me nuts. Some times I want to just go and pop there heads off.

So from now on if you toss out some dumb ass name calling at me in-game because of the way I fly I will give you absolute hell. Remember I don't not like you guys. You guys are all good buds but I just hate it when people have to toss out some jerk comment on the way you fly just because it gets them killed and loses them the game. B Strachen knows more than anyone that calling me out because the way I fly will just make it worse. He really got a lot of pain in that game where he nagged me for it. No offense to him but he just pushed my buttons to fare. I think I pushed his to fare because he has left every game I have been in with him since then. I don't think he needs to stay that far away from me but oh well.

Sky, I see it exactly as you do. The game is Dogfight, not Bomber. People who don't like to actually use their brain want to dumb it down so that everyone feels like they are good right off of the bat. I'm sorry if having to work a little bit and use your brain scares off new guys, but I would rather have a real game here than to have some dumbed down thing where strategy and thinking is not allowed. I'm afraid we have been overrun by the "everyone gets a trophy just for showing up" crowd. It's unfortunately a symptom of society as a whole.

Plus, some guys have their game on a big screen, connected to their ipads. Some have great wifi connections and some are just naturally talented. Then, some of us play on little phones with slow connections (me). Being able to think and strategize is 80% of how I can contribute to my teams performance. My point is, we all have our advantages and disadvantages. If strategy is no longer allowed, screw it. It's no longer fun.

Well said sky.

I think it is the complaining that does the most damage to the game. Sure there are worst cases like parking a tank on the runway. There is no way for a victim to counter that. I can't really think of any other stunts that are just plain impossible to deal with. The other issues like spawn killing in a ctc are really annoying but they can be dealt with.

The biggest problems seem to come from accusations and how seriously they are treated. I'll complain when someone spawn kills me if there is no good advantage for them but otherwise it's just part of the game. It's kind of like making a "late hit" in football.

My 13yo kid just really started playing. I was trying to explain the difference between offenses that might get you blacklisted as compared to those that might just be bad form. Some of the "bad form" issues are hard to explain what is right or wrong and why you should not necessarily explore every tactical advantage. Many times the explanation is that someone else feels slighted by your actions.

The issue of camping is tough especially if you just dropped your bomb on a hangar. It's like you've got a tiger by the tail. Often, unless the other team tells you they are going to let you leave, you are probably going to get shot down unless you fight. And why should they let you leave? So you can cover for the next incoming blue? Or get back out to tank range? Should they fly along side you back to your base and wait until you reload before they start their bombing run?

CATCH 22!


Let's leave the squabbling behind. I actually like seeing players who can kick my butt. It's a challenge to try to get them. I can see that some of the aces love going after KAF. Is he actually bringing in an interesting twist because of his "jack-a-donky" tactics? To me, the best part about this game is how it's almost entirely skill and tactics. There are no secret codes or patterns. No memorization that gives huge advantage to those who have played the game more. Sure, there are little tricks and spots which make good tank blinds to shoot from. But some one with raw talent can really excel even before they hit level 20. It may take a bit to figure out how to get away from a heavy camper but that's part of the learning curve. The problem with trying to reinforce etiquette is that there is so much grey area and so much hostility that comes out of it. It may be best to just up and leave when you don't like what is going on.


One good thing about squads is that you can join or create a tag which says "this is what I stand for!" I take personal pride in not spawn killing (except in certain circumstances) and I soar with vanity when I buzz a freshly spawned red and don't shoot . When squad wars come into reality there will be a whole new dynamic to this game for the "old players" . Am I one of those yet? Lol!


Looking forward to it.


Btw. The uneven games is a whole other issue. For now the best thing might be for people to leave voluntarily when there are more than 5 blues.

Skydavis1 wrote: The one thing in dogfight I miss from a couple years ago was how the game was played. Most games went this way. The game starts every one takes off and heads for the enemy. They kill each other along the way but a few guys on one team would live through the first wave and usually the second wave and some one would make in to the enemy base they would bomb or get in enough trouble they drop and instantly start dogfighting to hold the reds down. The rest of the team would show up and bomb. The guy that originally was holding the reds down would then leave while the rest held them down. He would then come back with a bomb and finish the game.

The games where quick and the team that had the best turn fighter usually won. I should actually say the team with the best turn fighter always won. Back then the logic was if you can get to there base then you are doing good. So why in the hell would you leave after you make it to there base and bomb when you could get your hands on the air superiority and hold it till some of your team mates returned with there bombs and ended the game. Games would last 30 minutes at max even when the best players where going against each other.

Why the games worked that way was because no one had much of a problem with camping or spawn killing because every one did it. Most people did not mind it because when they got caught in the fire and where the ones getting there @$$ handed to them they got better.

The game was played as a strategic war game. Get ahold of the air superiority then take them out. This some times meant that a whole team of players as in 4 players all dropped there bombs at the start got ahold of the air and pushed the enemy to there door step and then two people would crash get bombs come back bomb then the other two would crash or die and get a bomb and end it.

The game was simple and complicated at the same time. The goal of the game was simple they way you flew was complicated because you where not judged or hated on because you used a tactic that made you win other than going down the center of the map head to head hoping you have just a good enough aim to to make it all the way to there base and bomb. Using different routs and different ways to win the game was looked at the same we we "you" look at people who are boring and carry a bomb down the center every time shooting in a head on. When I first started playing the game that if you went right down the center of the map all the time most of the aces and well known people looked at you and though you where some idiot. Now days its the opposite. If you take other routs or drop a bomb and try to get air superiority for your team your looked at like and idiot by the enemy and your own team.

Now all the fun stuff is ether outlawed or extremely frowned upon and every one hates you if you do it. Something I have noticed is that all the players that where around at the end of the major camping spawn killing age of dogfight "is what I will call it" are all very good players because they had to put up with the spawn killing and camping and learn how to dogfight and clear the skies over there base or there was going to be no hope for them at ever getting anywhere. Most of these players where good and where beyond amazing at around rank 10 and 15.

Now all the new players who have not had to deal with being spawn killed or there base being camped at just about every game, are not as good at dogfighting or being quick to hit a target. It usually takes them Months and about 20 - 23 ranks to get any good at all. All they seem to know how to do up till around that time is to fly straight aim ahead and shoot at that small dot under that red tag. If they miss the guy and he misses them and they fly past each other and there head on target was a player that is any good he would be turning around the very millisecond they fly past each other and will kill the new pilot. Even if the new pilot started turning I will promos you he will be turning at a rate that makes you think he has 2 or 3 bombs on him. Yes they eventually get good after things like this happen over a period of time and after they get destroyed in dogfights and zep games like there no more than a sitting duck they will eventually learn to dogfight or to not miss. But lord dose it take a long time for them to figure it out.

What happened is the newer members of the game which would now be the old members of the game decided to complain about spawn killing and camping so much that the old players that are now called the old old players basically all left. and with the new players we now have all this camping spawning complaining BS around that every thing you do in game where you are around a enemy base after you have bombed or even if you haven't bombed and you get more than 5 kills there you are automatically some mutated monster murdering innocent children.

People just need to calm down and if your getting spawn killed or camped by a player don't freak just stay calm use your brain get in the air keep him busy enough that more of your team can get up to help you with him and kill him. If you cant kill him even if you got your whole team up and by all means you just can not bring him down, then all I can say is that you have fairly and squarely lost that game. You let him get to your base and when some one gets to your base because you did not kill them well they have the power to what they like and if you can get up you have the power to what you like as well. You just have to figure out a way to do it.

Some one drops there bomb all the time and dogfights instead of flying straight in head to heads. Don't complain about it. Don't say fly with a bomb and help your team out, because they are helping there team out they are driving you back most likely if you are complaining about it and if your not using your brain and having some one drop and take him out or adjusting your head to head so you hit him anyway. Complaining about that is sad because you have the power to drop a bomb and dogfight him and kill him and push him back. Most people that play where they just drop there bomb and dogfight will leave the game instantly if some one shows them several times they are the better dogfighter and kills them multiple times. As soon as there dogfighting thing goes sower for them they might carry a bomb and go down the center or they will just leave. If you don't beat them in a turn fight then learn how to turn fight better than them if you want to win the game.

Same thing with any other tactic out there. You just got to adjust and counter it. If you cant, learn how to counter it. Even if you lose the game because of it you may have got better at countering that tactic and will do better next time.

What I am trying to say in a nut shell is stop complaining about what ever it is with a player flight style and learn how to combat it. In war you can complain all you want but nothing will happen till you learn to deal with it and make your self able to counter it.

A lot of people have asked me why I am so good or how I can last so dam long on a defense where it is me vs 7 others. I wont you to forget all the excuses I have ever told you on why I can do those well and I will tell you the truth. I keep a open mind and if something is making things difficult like people going high for instance, I will figure out a way to counter it for as long as I possibly can. I don't fly in a straight line shooting you all in a head on. No I try every thing I can possible.

There is one thing I will complain about and this is all you parachute aces lol. Its the one thing I absolutely hate with a passion I will take the time to say a small complaint. I just have a feeling that once your shot down by a plane in a ww1 game that is it you lost the fight and you go down with your plane. I am a hypocrite there though because I parachute and kill in it as well lol. I am just no good at it. And from hear on I will stop complaining about parachuters if you guys all stop complaining about camping and spawn killing and just play the dam game.

DAVY says, excellent post, this post is sooooo good I've good have said it myself. Good job.

dentinhead wrote: One more person shoot's me in the back after dropping my bomb, One more.... I'm about sick of being called a camper when I try to just survive... I try to leave and you shoot me in the back....Nice....call me a camper and shoot me in the back..... I shot you down a couple times trying to get away.... then You shoot at me again as I'm trying to leave.... AGAIN.... In the freakin back... I didn't have a Bomb Jack-A-Donkey.....

Someone better explain camping and do a good job of it..... I've been shot in the back too many times after dropping my bomb..... WHILE LEAVING..... This camping crap is a bunch of BS....

Start a Fire and eat a freakin Marshmallow....Holy crow.....Roast a HOTDOG....Poo behind a tree...I don't care....

Now Dent settle down your gonna pop a vessel You know how to do this you know there's been so much bitching about campers on here lately thats the 1st thing they think of saying when they to are pist off over being shot down and bombed repeatedly you can't let this crap get to you. Go outside kick the neighbors dog and see if to doesn't bite at you. No body likes an ass whipping if their trying their best. So yes they will bark,bite,an bitch about just let it go man....

Dr Dave wrote:

dentinhead wrote: One more person shoot's me in the back after dropping my bomb, One more.... I'm about sick of being called a camper when I try to just survive... I try to leave and you shoot me in the back....Nice....call me a camper and shoot me in the back..... I shot you down a couple times trying to get away.... then You shoot at me again as I'm trying to leave.... AGAIN.... In the freakin back... I didn't have a Bomb Jack-A-Donkey.....

Someone better explain camping and do a good job of it..... I've been shot in the back too many times after dropping my bomb..... WHILE LEAVING..... This camping crap is a bunch of BS....

Start a Fire and eat a freakin Marshmallow....Holy crow.....Roast a HOTDOG....Poo behind a tree...I don't care....

Now Dent settle down your gonna pop a vessel You know how to do this you know there's been so much bitching about campers on here lately thats the 1st thing they think of saying when they to are pist off over being shot down and bombed repeatedly you can't let this crap get to you. Go outside kick the neighbors dog and see if to doesn't bite at you. No body likes an ass whipping if their trying their best. So yes they will bark,bite,an bitch about just let it go man....

Didn't work, the dog bit me...
Quite Honestly.... I'm actually not worked up...Just sooooooo muuuuuuuchhhhh you know what lately...

Thanks Dave....

I said he'd bite you....