Hello Dogfight! Luna here.

I’m writing this post to address an issue that’s been afflicting the forum as of lately: the matter of posted content/images and the censorship and control of such.

I’m not here as an advocate for the Freedom of Speech, or Women’s Rights, or Political Correctness. I’m here to bring to light the consequences of the choices that people have been making here.

I’m a firm believer that people should never be afraid to say what they want to say, and do what they wish as long as it fits into the lines of a moral compass. The question of “whose moral compass?” is what makes this principle so tricky, and that’s where the axiom of consideration takes place. Knowing that there’s a time and place for everything, and knowing which lines are okay to cross and when is where many people clash viewpoints.

I know that some people feel that they are entitled to certain rights, and I believe they are justified in thinking so. However, this is only valid in the real world, where your jurisdiction is viable and the situation is yours. We sometimes forget we are participating on someone else’s property. Dogfight, the game, and it’s social spaces was never ours to begin with. When we joined this community, we did so under the rules of its creators. They are called the “Terms of Use”.

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Did some of us forget these rules? Here’s a link, just in case:

Privacy Policy and Terms of Use

Allow me to quote some portions of these rules that is significant to the topic at hand:

“You... agree to be disconnected, banned or limited in any manner... for any reason the staff or volunteers in charge deems appropriate, including but not limited to, unlawful activities, cursing or behavior that might be bothering other players.”

“By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.”

“The owners of Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any content item for any reason.”

“While debating and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, profanity (or attempts to bypass profanity filters), insulting posts, personal attacks or purposeless inflammatory posts. Our decision is final in these matters.”

“You agree... that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of... law.”

“We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies... By registering or posting on the forum you are agreeing to these rules or policies.”

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Do you disagree with any of the statements that were quoted above? Then you should not be here.

Now, you may be thinking, “But Luna, if the mods are going to censor everything we say and ban anyone who opposes, then what is the point of having an open forum?”

To answer this, once again refer to the Terms of Use. There was never a disposition of Big Brother censorship. The definition of “vulgar”, “obscene”, and “sexually-oriented” are not vague in this context.

Like I said, there’s a time and place for everything.

I was raised in Southern California. There’s nothing I enjoy more than a sunny day at the beach in my two-piece. I would be upset if some random person came up to me there and told me I needed to put on more clothes. Shame on them for trying to make me feel ashamed, right?

But I would never dare to show up to church wearing such a thing. Or a funeral, a schoolhouse, a job interview, or my grandmother’s home.

You may feel permitted when you are within a space such as the individual Squadron topics, but even these areas reside under the Terms of Use.

I stand by these rules, not because I am sacrificing my Free Speech, or because I’m an entitled, offended woman. No, it’s because, just like you and everyone else here, I agreed to play by them when I joined. If the creators wish to take this post of mine and completely edit my words, and ban my account, then it is their right to do so.

If you can’t accept this fact, then why did you agree with them by joining?

The DF forums are a place where people can get together continue the fun that we have together in the skies. We can all do so without breaking the rules, right?

For the sake of the community, keep it friendly, and keep it clean, everyone. Thank you!

~Luna

In the video Zup made when he was promoting the Kickstarter campaign for Elite he said (more than once) that the social aspect of the game was one of the most important things to him, particularly for the enjoyment of "friends and family". Many here have obviously made friends with others from around the world, different "time zones" and cultures all come together here. Unfortunately there is also the obvious vitriol and even hate. (Not unlike real life I suppose...)

On the one hand this is a competitive "war game" with opposing squads, it's completely natural that there would be some rivalry. On the other hand, we often don't know where to stop. Like sports fans who take it too far and attack other fans or break windows of cars that have rival bumper stickers, we dig at each other, way beyond the scope of the game.

Can we lighten up?

The sexual stuff.... well this just isn't the place. DF is now offered as a place for 9+ year olds. Please be respectful.

How come the only Global Mod gets to be in your squad?
Seems like an opurtunity for bias.

[*M] bware wrote: How come the only Global Mod gets to be in your squad?
Seems like an opurtunity for bias.

If you have seen the thread when Jacob shown his interest in joining squad, most of the squad welcomed him to join their squad including NLR. We are lucky and feel proud that he choose NLR amongst the best of squads. Will your comment about bias be the same if he had joined the Misfit?

One thing more we never interfere in Jacob's Job of being moderator. We see in him a good human being like in all members of this community rather than a moderator.

[NLR] The Blue Fighter wrote:

[*M] bware wrote: How come the only Global Mod gets to be in your squad?
Seems like an opurtunity for bias.

If you have seen the thread when Jacob shown his interest in joining squad, most of the squad welcomed him to join their squad including NLR. We are lucky and feel proud that he choose NLR amongst the best of squads. Will your comment about bias be the same if he had joined the Misfit?

One thing more we never interfere in Jacob's Job of being moderator. We see in him a good human being like in all members of this community rather than a moderator.

If he would have joined the Misfits, we would have asked him to ban all non-Misfits. That's just an idea I had. I am still working on a way to get him to join. That is all for now.

[*M] bware wrote: How come the only Global Mod gets to be in your squad?
Seems like an opurtunity for bias.

I was actually made global mod before I ever considered joining NLR.

[NLR]Jacob10000 wrote:

[*M] bware wrote: How come the only Global Mod gets to be in your squad?
Seems like an opurtunity for bias.

I was actually made global mod before I ever considered joining NLR.

Yup, still...

[NLR] The Blue Fighter wrote:

[*M] bware wrote: How come the only Global Mod gets to be in your squad?
Seems like an opurtunity for bias.

Will your comment about bias be the same if he had joined the Misfit?

No. It would read: "How come the only Global Mod gets to be in our squad?
Seems like an opurtunity for bias."

[*M] bware wrote: How come the only Global Mod gets to be in your squad?
Seems like an opurtunity for bias.

I understand why you feel this way. And while this may seem like an opportunity for bias, I had hoped the community had more faith in the NLR; that we would never take an advantage of such a situation like the one that is suggested. I try my best to instill a sense of amiability amongst the NLR towards all of DF. We may be an individual squadron, but we see the entire DF community as a whole family.

If people have objections against what was said here, then that is justifiable. But please, do not attack the reputation of the NLR. The members here are good people and they all put their very best towards making DF a fun and fair experience for all. If you must point fingers, direct them towards me. I'll take responsibility as the squad founder.

So, that being said, I ask that you send your replies to me via PM. I hear what you're saying, but the topic of this thread is not about what I am addressing in this post.

Just a thought but maybe each squads thread should have its own moderators and only members of that squad should have access to it. Seems to me that , that would solve all the current problems.

Nobody ever said that a squad can't have their own group under whatever control they choose, outside of the forum.

[NLR]Jacob10000 wrote: Nobody ever said that a squad can't have their own group under whatever control they choose, outside of the forum.

Yes , but why outside of the forum?? If misfits enjoy what misfits post then why should somebody who is not a a misfit be able to see it!!! Keep the gossip thread open to all but let each individual squad monitor their own thread knowing that only their squad members can see it. Many people seem to go to the misfit thread only to cause trouble , if they can't see what's there they can't complain about it .

[M]Pagan wrote:

[NLR]Jacob10000 wrote: Nobody ever said that a squad can't have their own group under whatever control they choose, outside of the forum.

Yes , but why outside of the forum?? If misfits enjoy what misfits post then why should somebody who is not a a misfit be able to see it!!! Keep the gossip thread open to all but let each individual squad monitor their own thread knowing that only their squad members can see it. Many people seem to go to the misfit thread only to cause trouble , if they can't see what's there they can't complain about it .

But you cannot claim any part of this website as your own. I don't see how that could be implemented at all. If squads want to have a completely free and private environment, then they make arrangements outside of DF. A new website, or chat room, etc.

What's being suggested is like making things private on open forum websites like Reddit, 4chan, or Quora. That's not how things work.

DF belongs to everybody. The forum is open to all. We all fly together, and we all play under the same rules. Segregating ourselves further won't solve anything.

[NLR] Luna wrote:

[M]Pagan wrote:

[NLR]Jacob10000 wrote: Nobody ever said that a squad can't have their own group under whatever control they choose, outside of the forum.

Yes , but why outside of the forum?? If misfits enjoy what misfits post then why should somebody who is not a a misfit be able to see it!!! Keep the gossip thread open to all but let each individual squad monitor their own thread knowing that only their squad members can see it. Many people seem to go to the misfit thread only to cause trouble , if they can't see what's there they can't complain about it .

But you cannot claim any part of this website as your own. I don't see how that could be implemented at all. If squads want to have a completely free and private environment, then they make arrangements outside of DF. A new website, or chat room, etc.

What's being suggested is like making things private on open forum websites like Reddit, 4chan, or Quora. That's not how things work.

DF belongs to everybody. The forum is open to all. We all fly together, and we all play under the same rules. Segregating ourselves further won't solve anything.

But why?? If a squads thread is only a squads thread then all the problems are solved . If people don't like what a squads thread contains then maybe they should not go there. Or do we all have to bow down to any troll who complains about anything.

[M]Pagan wrote:

[NLR] Luna wrote:

[M]Pagan wrote:

[NLR]Jacob10000 wrote: Nobody ever said that a squad can't have their own group under whatever control they choose, outside of the forum.

Yes , but why outside of the forum?? If misfits enjoy what misfits post then why should somebody who is not a a misfit be able to see it!!! Keep the gossip thread open to all but let each individual squad monitor their own thread knowing that only their squad members can see it. Many people seem to go to the misfit thread only to cause trouble , if they can't see what's there they can't complain about it .

But you cannot claim any part of this website as your own. I don't see how that could be implemented at all. If squads want to have a completely free and private environment, then they make arrangements outside of DF. A new website, or chat room, etc.

What's being suggested is like making things private on open forum websites like Reddit, 4chan, or Quora. That's not how things work.

DF belongs to everybody. The forum is open to all. We all fly together, and we all play under the same rules. Segregating ourselves further won't solve anything.

But why?? If a squads thread is only a squads thread then all the problems are solved . If people don't like what a squads thread contains then maybe they should not go there. Or do we all have to bow down to any troll who complains about anything. It should all be about freedom of speech if kids shouldn't see what grown ups write then maybe they should be stopped from seeing them , and not censoring what grown ups post.

[M]Pagan wrote:

[NLR] Luna wrote:

[M]Pagan wrote:

[NLR]Jacob10000 wrote: Nobody ever said that a squad can't have their own group under whatever control they choose, outside of the forum.

Yes , but why outside of the forum?? If misfits enjoy what misfits post then why should somebody who is not a a misfit be able to see it!!! Keep the gossip thread open to all but let each individual squad monitor their own thread knowing that only their squad members can see it. Many people seem to go to the misfit thread only to cause trouble , if they can't see what's there they can't complain about it .

But you cannot claim any part of this website as your own. I don't see how that could be implemented at all. If squads want to have a completely free and private environment, then they make arrangements outside of DF. A new website, or chat room, etc.

What's being suggested is like making things private on open forum websites like Reddit, 4chan, or Quora. That's not how things work.

DF belongs to everybody. The forum is open to all. We all fly together, and we all play under the same rules. Segregating ourselves further won't solve anything.

But why?? If a squads thread is only a squads thread then all the problems are solved . If people don't like what a squads thread contains then maybe they should not go there. Or do we all have to bow down to any troll who complains about anything.

I'm not sure I understand your question? A squad's thread was never meant to be exclusive. That's not how Zuperman designed the forum.

It's always been a place where people can get together and fly under the same banner. At the same time, other players can interact with squads through these threads, which essentially serve as a frontline ambassador and representation of what your squad is. How would I have ever joined the 111th Falcons four years ago if their squadron topic was closed off? I liked what I saw in their posts, and I applied.

While its true that the primary users of a squad's forum section will indeed be members of that squadron, closing it off defeats the purpose of what they are intended for.

Yes, if people don't like what's in a squad's thread, then they naturally would choose not to visit. However, if the content within a squad's thread breaks the rules, then it is subject to consequences that are outlined in the Terms of Use, which every single thread in this forum fall under.

I wholeheartedly believe in Freedom of Speech, but we are no longer in the USA when we log in. This is a meeting place of people from all over the world, of many creeds, genders, ages, and beliefs. This is not a site for "grown-ups". It's not private, or segregated. It never was.

We should be working towards making a community that's fun and friendly towards all. Call me sentimental, but that's how it was a couple years back. I know things change... but we can work it for the better.

Just not by building walls.

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There is a saying in Spanish that tell us that you have to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. Jacob was trusted and appointed by zuperman to help him out on the time consuming task of monitor the forum; this I might add without pay. He is doing this task to the best of his ability’s and under instructions of zuperman. All the strain and drama that have surface lately have made his work more apparent. The fact that he is a team mate of a particular squadron should be seen totally separated. He plays for fun and enjoys the game as much as all of us. His cooperation on forum work is just that, work; fully separated from the squadron. You guys are seeing it as an attack or invasion from an another member from another squadron and you all know that is not the case. His role as global moderator has always been clear to all of us.

It is very sad to see how a friendly community is turning on each other and closing up. All these argument has been started by a few individuals and has spilled over to the squadrons causing strain and divisions. It is natural that each squadron or group back up their own, but this has got out of hand. These personal arguments are influencing the groups and it is not for the better. This is threatening the whole community.
Elder players should speak up and try to tone down the unfortunate grudge that has lead us all down this sad path. To try to blame Jacob for something that he did not start and that has clearly gone out of control it is not fair. I remember a more inclusive, active and fun community but lately teams are arguing even among themselves, and closing up their participation throughout the forum. I think we all should step back forgive and forget all that has happened and start to talk without resentments to each other. Like Luna said this was a different place, what happened???

It’s time for the Leaders to show leadership and the elders to show wisdom. So do not be SILENT or close your eyes to what is happening. Please lest try to fix this.



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DEAR EVERYBODY: Just pick up your controllers, tablets, keyboards or phones and hit the play button. Lets enjoy the game, and what we can find in one another. Peace, TFL alwaystrouble

I remember a time when we had a few more global moderators (until one of them screwed things up). Perhaps we need to return to that position, at least then there would be someone who could act when squad moderators, for one reason or another fail to act.
They would also become the people you go to if you have a complaint about posts in any part of the forum, instead of giving the developer the headache of wading through e-mails of (what are probably petty) moans, freeing him up to work on making the game and forum better and better.

Acegirl wrote: .
There is a saying in Spanish that tell us that you have to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. Jacob was trusted and appointed by zuperman to help him out on the time consuming task of monitor the forum; this I might add without pay. He is doing this task to the best of his ability’s and under instructions of zuperman. All the strain and drama that have surface lately have made his work more apparent. The fact that he is a team mate of a particular squadron should be seen totally separated. He plays for fun and enjoys the game as much as all of us. His cooperation on forum work is just that, work; fully separated from the squadron. You guys are seeing it as an attack or invasion from an another member from another squadron and you all know that is not the case. His role as global moderator has always been clear to all of us.

It is very sad to see how a friendly community is turning on each other and closing up. All these argument has been started by a few individuals and has spilled over to the squadrons causing strain and divisions. It is natural that each squadron or group back up their own, but this has got out of hand. These personal arguments are influencing the groups and it is not for the better. This is threatening the whole community.
Elder players should speak up and try to tone down the unfortunate grudge that has lead us all down this sad path. To try to blame Jacob for something that he did not start and that has clearly gone out of control it is not fair. I remember a more inclusive, active and fun community but lately teams are arguing even among themselves, and closing up their participation throughout the forum. I think we all should step back forgive and forget all that has happened and start to talk without resentments to each other. Like Luna said this was a different place, what happened???

It’s time for the Leaders to show leadership and the elders to show wisdom. So do not be SILENT or close your eyes to what is happening. Please lest try to fix this.



.

Careful Ace, your banner may be considered a bit too risqué for this forum

It’s time for the Leaders to show leadership and the elders to show wisdom. So do not be SILENT or close your eyes to what is happening. Please lest try to fix this. [/size]



.[/quote]
Careful Ace, your banner may be considered a bit too risqué for this forum [/quote]


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LOL not a short skirt! It right at the knee so I am goooooood!!!



.

[*M]VonHuLK wrote:

[NLR] The Blue Fighter wrote:

[*M] bware wrote: How come the only Global Mod gets to be in your squad?
Seems like an opurtunity for bias.

If you have seen the thread when Jacob shown his interest in joining squad, most of the squad welcomed him to join their squad including NLR. We are lucky and feel proud that he choose NLR amongst the best of squads. Will your comment about bias be the same if he had joined the Misfit?

One thing more we never interfere in Jacob's Job of being moderator. We see in him a good human being like in all members of this community rather than a moderator.

If he would have joined the Misfits, we would have asked him to ban all non-Misfits. That's just an idea I had. I am still working on a way to get him to join. That is all for now.

I vote no

Hi all,

I know i'm not very Active on the forum but now i want to say somehing
After i Read this i was asking myself, why does i Have joined DF, well the answer is easy, to play dogfight. Then i realised that df was lot More then a Game, you can meet People from everywhere Sounds like a Nice bonus, then i joinded NLR where i feel at my place in the game. So now i Have been there a while and i can honestly say that NLR is not trying to take df over, we are Just here to help the game, to help zuperman,to make this game what its supposed to be like the rules saying made by zup. I Have met a lot of People in game from the M and i can say, you guys, you'r realy but realy great players in the game
So whith all this can we Just trying to enyoy the game?
I know everyone has he's own opinion obout what or what not to post on forum but try to remeber this: everyone can see this, so think 2 before you post somehing that can offend people in there Culture/age/...

See you in the Air

Cedricboss

.





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Acegirl wrote:

It is very sad to see how a friendly community is turning on each other and closing up. All these argument has been started by a few individuals and has spilled over to the squadrons causing strain and divisions.

Great post, Ace.

I flew quite a bit today and I think it is still a friendly community. Today I saw people helping others out on WC and being nice each time I stopped to read it. Good to see.

I agree with you Ace. The arguments were started by a few individuals--some that have been banned or muted weeks ago. It's all in the past now.

Those of us who play Elite have learned to enjoy the game and let's just get back to chatting and having fun.

Well wishes to all--

DireWolf

[NLR]cedricboss wrote: Hi all,

I know i'm not very Active on the forum but now i want to say somehing
After i Read this i was asking myself, why does i Have joined DF, well the answer is easy, to play dogfight. Then i realised that df was lot More then a Game, you can meet People from everywhere Sounds like a Nice bonus, then i joinded NLR where i feel at my place in the game. So now i Have been there a while and i can honestly say that NLR is not trying to take df over, we are Just here to help the game, to help zuperman,to make this game what its supposed to be like the rules saying made by zup. I Have met a lot of People in game from the M and i can say, you guys, you'r realy but realy great players in the game
So whith all this can we Just trying to enyoy the game?
I know everyone has he's own opinion obout what or what not to post on forum but try to remeber this: everyone can see this, so think 2 before you post somehing that can offend people in there Culture/age/...

See you in the Air

Cedricboss

Agreed, but when one involves them self with an inside squad issue, that when they crossed the line. We all get it. Save the world from bikini girls, got it. But dont get involved in someones family issue...
Thanks

[M]walleye wrote:

[NLR]cedricboss wrote: Hi all,

I know i'm not very Active on the forum but now i want to say somehing
After i Read this i was asking myself, why does i Have joined DF, well the answer is easy, to play dogfight. Then i realised that df was lot More then a Game, you can meet People from everywhere Sounds like a Nice bonus, then i joinded NLR where i feel at my place in the game. So now i Have been there a while and i can honestly say that NLR is not trying to take df over, we are Just here to help the game, to help zuperman,to make this game what its supposed to be like the rules saying made by zup. I Have met a lot of People in game from the M and i can say, you guys, you'r realy but realy great players in the game
So whith all this can we Just trying to enyoy the game?
I know everyone has he's own opinion obout what or what not to post on forum but try to remeber this: everyone can see this, so think 2 before you post somehing that can offend people in there Culture/age/...

See you in the Air

Cedricboss

Agreed, but when one involves them self with an inside squad issue, that when they crossed the line. We all get it. Save the world from bikini girls, got it. But dont get involved in someones family issue...
Thanks

I did nothing outside of the forum. Your squad is a part of this forum, is it not? I don't recall saying or doing anything to anyones family. In case you forgot this forum exists because of a "game".

It's very simple, rules exist even when not enforced constantly. Just because you don't get a ticket every time you exceed the speed limit, does it make driving over the speed limit legal? Just because rules are broken by others or have been broken for a long time, it doesn't make it ok to break them. Things have gone far enough that the forum is in danger, so the rules will now be enforced. Anybody that doesn't like the rules, or can't abide by them, will not be forced to stay. Anybody who chooses fight the enforcement of the rules will be given chances to change their attitude or they will be banned. Simple.

I usually don't go on other squads threads, Wolf Pack's usually keeps me entertained enough, but I do check interesting threads out that might interest me and I really don't know what this dust up is about. I have neither seen rampant abuse of the forum or out of control censorship. As far as WC is concerned I have seen some stupid stuff but no sex talk or much bad language. I have heard rumors of harassment of female pilots but have not seen it first hand and I would not tolerate it if I had. I just have not seen first hand what everyone is up in arms about and I am on almost every day.
What I have noticed is a lot of people flying in game that have "muted" in their name, experienced people that I wouldn't think would get themselves into trouble in that way so it does make me question what's going on?
If I see abuse going on I will defend the victims and not tolerate the abusers but let's all get back to shooting reds, shall we?

[NLR]Jacob10000 wrote: It's very simple, rules exist even when not enforced constantly. Just because you don't get a ticket every time you exceed the speed limit, does it make driving over the speed limit legal? Just because rules are broken by others or have been broken for a long time, it doesn't make it ok to break them. Things have gone far enough that the forum is in danger, so the rules will now be enforced. Anybody that doesn't like the rules, or can't abide by them, will not be forced to stay. Anybody who chooses fight the enforcement of the rules will be given chances to change their attitude or they will be banned. Simple.

Youre beating a dead horse, we get it. But didn't you ban Tbuilt for him telling you to stay out of an issue that he and comet was working on, did you not? That issue involved a player and a issue involving no one else but him and if he was going to stay in the squad. A totally in squad issue. Tbuilt left you a comment to stay out of it. Next thing that happens, he gets banned. Try not to spin it and say it was for other things.
This whole fiasco could of be avoided threw pm's to the squad mods.
The people who know me in this game know i really dont jump into issues, i let the mods handle that and try not to get in the dirt with that stuff. But when wrong is wrong, heck yea I'll call you on it.
Thx.