As many of you may know I do not like the way LIBIAK ALI plays in a game. Heck, most of us, if not, all don't. He is a very selfish player that has no respect for anyone. Look, if I am on his team I sure as heck don't want to win a game because of his choice of play. That's what makes him selfish. Not only does he disrespect the reds but he disrespects his teammates as well.

I am guilty 100% of team killing and I will not stop. Well this only with LIBIAK ALI. When I enter a game and he is on my team I try to switch sides but often can not make it happen so I stay. The first thing I do is tell the reds not to kill me because I am going to help them. What I do is I immediately go after LIBIAK ALI and we get into our battle. LMAO...it's actually kind of fun because it's harder without any arrows to help. Plus it's an ongoing feud between us that I actually look foward to now. I think he feels the same because he comes after me as well.

Many players have become aware of what I do and appreciate it a lot. They often tell me once I enter a game that he is up to his ways.

To many people here say "well if it's not against the rules of Dogfight set by Zup then it's not cheating and it's ok". Technically that's true but I say no way! Not when I am in a game. Here is why. LIBIAK ALI will drop his bombs to make it over to the hangers/carrier killing all slower flying planes in his path then make his way to enemy hangers/carrier. There he will spawn kill for as long as he can. Then should someone kill him he will use the tank glitch on the hangers or on the carrier. Ohhh, plus should he be invisible in his plane in a game he will bomb away until the game is over instead of leaving.

That is simply trashy play. Heck we can all do that but we don't because we have respect for one another. I don't want players like him here. I addressed the issue of his choice of play a few times to Zup and after hearing no response and seeing him continue in his ways, well I just took it upon myself to handle it my way.

I say his ways are cheating. To me this is not debatable so please let's not get into that never ending arguement over it. Maybe it's wrong of me to say this but I don't care that it is not written in the rules. To me it's common sense. I will continue to always fight against LIBIAK ALI, red or blue, to help out my fellow players. To me it is an honor and a privelege to do so.

I will very gladly accept the punishment of being banned from Dogfight for team killing LIBIAK ALI should it come to that because I won't stop it for as long as both he and I are here. I am also getting fed up of taking the 5 minute ban in games for taking him out. I wish I could do more for my fellow players but the ban only allows me to do so much.

Consider all I said here and tell me what you think. Am I right or wrong for doing what I do?

Can you do it without breaking rules yourself?

D93 to me team killing is wrong and if you don't like him either enter as red or leave the server.

Wrong doing (by well respected member) will not make it right. Join Red and counter him by dropping, if he is dropping. That's what I will do. Just think, if any new player joins your side and see you team killing. not only you'll be spoiling your image but also encourage him to do the same.

What if Libiak Ali too indulge in fighting and team kill you. Same team members fighting with each other and other will make mockery of you both, may be not in open but behind you.

Do it in legimate way by joining other side.

[NLR] McFate wrote: Can you do it without breaking rules yourself?

The answer is usually yes. I will try to enter the game as a red against him. There are sometimes when it's not possible such as one team has more players and I will keep getting the same side no matter how many times I try or if I am the 8th player.

I really would rather face him as a red. Plus I don't like having players seeing the team killing that goes on. Yes that is wrong. It is however better for them that I put a stop to his ways in a game then to let him continue. I just can't find it in myself to leave some lower ranks in a game against LIBIAK ALI who can not fend for themselves. I think if I would to ignore it and simply leave the game that would be even more wrong of me than team killing him.

The reason I made this thread is because it happened tonight in a game. As soon as I entered the game one of my squadmates that was in it immediately said to me that LIBIAK ALI is here and up to his same old crappy ways. Like I am not going to help one of my squadmates even if LIBIAK was blue or anyone for that matter.

Heck after all isn't there something said about not ruining the game for others? I'm sorry what others may think but the way LIBIAK ALI plays does ruin it for others. Maybe not so much for us top level guys but definitely for the lower ones. Especially since they don't even know what he is doing and how to prevent it let alone being capable of defending against it.

I would assume that many noobs completely stopped playing Dogfight because of what players like LIBIAK ALI have done to them. Where's the fun in that for the new players.

[NLR] The Blue Fighter wrote: D93 to me team killing is wrong and if don't like him either enter from red side or leave the server.

Wrong doing by well respected will not make it right. Join Red and counter him by dropping if he is dropping. That what I will do. Just think if any new player join your side and see you team killing. You will not spoiling your image to him but also encourage him to do the same.

What if libiak Ali too indulge in fighting you. Same team fighting with each other and other will make mockery of you both, may be not in open but behind you.

Do it in legimate way by joining other side.

Please take a look at the response that I just left for McFate above. It answers a lot of what you commented on.

I can tell you that in every case that I have done this both teams, red and blue, were VERY GRATEFUL that I did something about it. They all had positive things to say to me and were able to go about playing the game for fun amongst eachother while I kept LIBIAK preoccupied, the way it should be.

Now if that makes a mockery of me I would be honored to wear a scarlet letter on my plane.

[NLR] McFate wrote: Can you do it without breaking rules yourself?

A simplier way to answer this is yes but there are times when rules are meant to be broken. Especially when it's for a good cause.

I played a game against this player Ali last night. It had been a while since I had seen him. I spawned into a game and found a fellow squadmate outnumbered, against 3. All of the players were top ranked, against 1. Ali was dropping as his base, getting behind the lone blue trying to get the "easy" kill. Once I got there and saw the "tactics" used by this so called player, I followed suit. The game lasted about 30 minutes. We never lost a hangar, the fight stayed at their base, Ali ended up with even KDR. How does that help his team? What did he gain from this? In game and in life, some people want an unfair advantage. Nothing will ever change that. Do I feel accomplished after dropping and going after this guy? Not really, I would have faired better flying with a bomb. I shoot straighter when carrying.
Gunzz, I would not waste my time or points going after this player while being blue. If you must, wait for a red to leave and switch, or wait until next time. Remember you are setting an example for the future MORAF's (or MORON's)

Gunzz,
You know what to do...

Ronnie Biggs wrote: Gunzz,
You know what to do...

Yesss I do not what to do. But do you know what that is?

See, in the picture that is me. I am meditating on a list of players then I am gonna pick up my sword and take action again these tools

Never mess with a samuri

Two wrongs = right? I think not.

Sounds like he's having fun woth what you're doing, otherwise he would just leave those games. Do the right thing, blacklist his name to the community and report him, he'll get what's coming.

Ignore him. Its not worth your time to fester over this player. keep those gunzzzzz for worthy opponents.

Actually cheats ain't fun especially Libiak Ali is doing. I don't think he cares cuz' he'll keep doing it. Just simply wish that he'll straighten out himself by doing the right thing. I just wish that everyone flies with dignity and honor. Not everybody follows the rules, to those who don't follow will pay also see what the outcome will be. This is suppose to be fun for all. I'd have to say SMH. In this case, I'd have to agree with gunzzz because I wish to all bad pilots to follow the damn rules. Just plain simple!

Prob is new players will follow examples set, there r anumber of players that just play for the points at all costs that will never change, annoying but true, dont let anyone change the way you like to play. If the fun goes its game over, I get the frustration bg ur a good guy just dont let these @rsehills ruin for you..

Hey Gunzz
Heres how I see it. I agree with Vivek on the fact of switch sides or just leave. There is always an opportunity to catch him as red. I too lately have been letting my anger for those who choose not to play right and or run their dirty nutt suckers calling names lol. But you sir are better than that. I get the frustration but either try to switch or leave all together. Many lessons you taught me as a noob. 1 of which was play for fun. Play with honor. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I always got your 6 bro.

Guns you are absolutely right FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE I do the same with MR BINGO


keep team killing then leave and come back so you won't get banned

Nice Dia..and funny top bloke!
Is that ur df outfit in ur icon pic..lol..looks like hazardous spills to me!

I have a short list of players that I will either attempt to switch sides or leave the game all together. The way I see it, I won't lower myself to their level and plenty of good pilots to fly with.

There's that shortlist of name-callers/team-killers etc. that get their kicks from ruining a good game. There are far too many of them lately. I've often thought we should all have an informal agreement--the fair and decent players all leave a game and steal the one thing the fools desire...attention.

[NLR] Luna wrote: Sounds like he's having fun woth what you're doing, otherwise he would just leave those games. Do the right thing, blacklist his name to the community and report him, he'll get what's coming.

A little fun? Yes. Now at least because I have come to know his ways and how to stop him from playing this way. At first it got me very angry seeing him in games knowing what he does. Have you ever been on the receiving end of what LIBIAK ALI does? Well I was once in a 4 vs 2 game where the sides where against me. I mentioned to all in the game what LIBIAK was doing and you know what, no one in that game, except my teammate, cared or did anything to try and stop him. Not even a simple comment. Instead the all kept playing as usual even assisting LIBIAK while I was getting spawn killed repeatedly by him and his teammates.

Now do I want something like that to happen to others? No!!!

* see my next post *

Let me apologize for making my posts long. That's just how I am. I like to explain it all in detail so everyone can get a full understanding of my point.

*** Please take the time to read this post very thoroughly ***

Grab a cup of coffee and have a seat...


I am very glad to see the responses of Talon and BlackHawkGhost.

I am actually quite suprised to see the responses from the others.

Did you all really read exactly what I was saying in my prior posts? That's why your responses are shocking to me. I know most of you players very well in how you play here and I am sure you would do the same as I am.

Are you telling me that if one of your squadmates was in a game as a red against LIBIAK ALI and you enter as LIBIAK's teammate that you would just leave the game and leave your squadmate to fend for themselves? I find that very hard to believe. Plus in my squad TFL we have many lower-mid ranks that are not as experienced as some others. Well to me every player in this game is my brother and sister and I will treat them that way unless they don't deserve it for what ever reason, such as LIBIAK.

I did mention before that I will try all I can to be a red against LIBIAK. If the conditions don't allow it I will not leave players in that game against his ways.

LEAVE A GAME??? WHERE IS THE HONOR IN THAT?

The duty of the military is to help defend those who are unable to defend themselves. When there are low ranks in a game against LIBIAK they pretty much are defenseless against him. Codes of conduct and rules? I can't believe you would rather stick to the set rules and ignore the situation at hand. As I mentioned before it would be my honor to team kill any player that chooses to play as LIBIAK ALI does.

I have reported him on a few occasions. I even sent screen shots of him bombing hangers while he was playing invisible. Trust me I tried but to no avail. Since nothing is being done about it I will continue to handle it my way.

Many of these lower level players don't know to leave a game against players like this. So what happens? They stay and get their ends handed to them. Or they play their hearts out only to have a game end on a glitch.

These glitches and other issues have been around way too long. It's obvious they are here to stay. Since some players choose to play in ways that almost all of us claim to be against I will do all that I can to make them stop in a game if I can. Blue or red. I have been doing it and it is very effective. In fact I have seen some other players to it too and these are players that have earned my respect. Not players who have good looking stats and are the ones playing in such ways. Yeah and I gotta love how many of these top ranked players are actually the ones that play this way. Even players that are least expected to do so and hide behind their actions. I get a kick out of them.

Yes two wrongs do make a right sometimes. Even if it didn't what I do definitely makes it better than just ignoring what is going on.

It's a shame that issues such as the glitches have existed in DF for this long. Or that some players can't respect others by not spawn killing.

Leave a game? Sure but soon enough someone else will enter and have to deal with LIBIAK's way.

I am glad that you have commented here. It's always a pleasure for me to hear other's points of view. Being in disagreement is ok too.

I will continue doing as I am currently. As mentioned before I see how both the reds and the blues in those games where LIBIAK ALI is present appreciate what I do. So if players feel this way then why should I just ignore being able to help them.

I know that in that 4 vs 2 game against me I would have appreciated some help from LIBIAK's teammates for him playing this way. Not getting it from them and them ignoring what was happening was worse. If they team killed him I would have given them so much respect for doing it. Them ignoring such actions earned them dishonor from me.

So I have to admit that I am quite disappointed hearing some of your reponses. To me I find no honor in ignoring a situation where I can make a difference. The honor I gained from players within these games have been proven time and time again every time I chose to team kill LIBIAK. For that, I will continue in my way.

And last, I have to say you are kidding me? What about when a player starts team killing or bombing their own hangers? Or if they curse like crazy? Don't we give the pass out to allow them to be dealt with. In fact don't we even take it a step further and assist in killing players like this even if it meant team killing? Well I have often and I have seen it done so many times.

Each and every time these players get my respect for taking this course of action. Those that do nothing about it get none from me.

Maybe this isn't such a long time frame but I have been here 8 months. In these 8 months has anyone EVER seen me do anything in a game that was even remotely unfair or that would question my playing style?

I honestly believe that if you were in a game and saw exactly how my course of action is taken against LIBIAK ALI you too would approve of it.

D93 YOUR A GOOD PLAYER DONT FALL FOR TRAP OF TEAM KILLERS. JUST LEAVE GAME IF YOU CANT SWITCH AND REPORT HIM AND POST INCIDENT ON FORUM EVERYTIME. I PERSONALLY AM AGAINST TEAM KILLING AND ANY FORM OF IT EVEN IF IT SEEMS OK FOR PAYBACK WHICH IS THE REASON THUGZ CURRENTLY SEE ME AS A THREAT AND THINK I DECLARED WAR ON THEM LOL BUT IM TRYING TO CALM THAT THING DOWN. D93 DONT FALL TO THE SAME LEVEL AS ALI. AS LONG AS YOU STOP TEAM KILLING HIM D93 AND DO PAYBACK THE RIGHT WAY I WILL ALSO SUPPORT YOU AND GIVE ALI A HARD TIME IN THE SKIES IF I SEE HIM.

Gunzz,
I can not stand him I will usually leave. My thing is when the playing field is fair and everyone plays the same it makes a good game. However if I see him and he drops I drop and usually hunt him only. But your right he doesn't care. I am with you!

No honor in team killing, regardless of the reason. As a subscriber I have the option to leave when I wish and join a better game.

I get it, you imagine yourself as a "crusader" for good and just play, but you cannot change folks. That's fine for you, but doesn't work for me.

I guess what I am trying to say is I do applaud your efforts but I wont participate in them. Some may feel there is a need to "get even" with folks who you feel play dishonorably. That is in effect stooping to their level of play. That revelation came to me one game when I was chasing bubi and handing him his butt..... I thought "you know, all these junior guys don't know me from anyone, and this is how they will see me from here on out". I made my choice then.

Im not judging you, play how you like. Heck, I may even smile as you are going about killing libiak. However I wont join you in your crusade to clean up df is all. Likewise I wont condone it or encourage Wolf Pack to play the way you describe either.

That being said I am all for giving the reds a pass as I sit someplace and comment ala pluribus. So brother gunzzz, we will agree to disagree.

Happy hunting!

You are not wrong. You are right, using your convictions as your guide. I believe team killing is wrong and low. I feel removing a cheater, foul mouthed, disrespectful individual from the mist of those of us, whom are in pursuit of a good time is a personal decision. One, will then decide which tools to use that are at hand. Personally, reaching through the phone and slappin' em up smart sounds fun.

NEVER quit a game unless your house is on fire.
Kill whoever needs to be killed, which is situation dependent. If it feels right, it's right. If it feels wrong, it still maybe right. Give yourself the benefit of the doubt.
Gunzz, play your game your way.

[TFL] alwaystrouble2 wrote: You are not wrong. You are right, using your convictions as your guide. I believe team killing is wrong and low. I feel removing a cheater, foul mouthed, disrespectful individual from the mist of those of us, whom are in pursuit of a good time is a personal decision. One, will then decide which tools to use that are at hand. Personally, reaching through the phone and slappin' em up smart sounds fun.

LMAO...that was a great remark. You made me laugh so hard bro. Thanks!

I find it insulting to the concept of true honor that people attempt to relegate it to video game. Honor is saving and helping a poor family in the neighborhood, however little you know you'll get in return. Leaving a game because Black Devil Bubi, P-u-t-o, libiak ali, or any other assorted hooliganizer is in it is not dishonor. Doing anything about them is not honor.

Keeping a bomb isn't honor.

Not spawnkilling isn't honor.

Not flying invisible isn't honor.

Flying with a squadmate through thick and thin is not honor.

Literally nothing you could possibly do in this video game can be referred to as either honor or dishonor, and it's an insult to truly honorable people that anybody thinks there is.

My advice to you, Gunz, is to leave whenever you see him. There are people that I just ignore completely. If your honor is at all at stake when it comes to any game, then your circumstances are certainly enviable. I wouldn't recommend teamkilling. That's against the roolz. As J.R.R. Tolkien said, "Those who would defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel." Walking away is just fine.

I would like to apologize to all if any of my words may have come across differently than what my intensions were. In no way at all are my words here meant to be offensive to anyone, well other than LIBIAK ALI that is and those that play along those lines.

I do want to thank all of you that took the time to read the posts on this thread and share your opinions as well. That's what my intension was. Sometimes it's hard to see things when one is involved in a situation and being that I value the opinions of many in Dogfight, I was asking for your point of view.

Thank you for doing so!

[Thugz] KappaSpam wrote: I find it insulting to the concept of true honor that people attempt to relegate it to video game. Honor is saving and helping a poor family in the neighborhood, however little you know you'll get in return. Leaving a game because Black Devil Bubi, P-u-t-o, libiak ali, or any other assorted hooliganizer is in it is not dishonor. Doing anything about them is not honor.

Keeping a bomb isn't honor.

Not spawnkilling isn't honor.

Not flying invisible isn't honor.

Flying with a squadmate through thick and thin is not honor.

Literally nothing you could possibly do in this video game can be referred to as either honor or dishonor, and it's an insult to truly honorable people that anybody thinks there is.

My advice to you, Gunz, is to leave whenever you see him. There are people that I just ignore completely. If your honor is at all at stake when it comes to any game, then your circumstances are certainly enviable. I wouldn't recommend teamkilling. That's against the roolz. As J.R.R. Tolkien said, "Those who would defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel." Walking away is just fine.

Kap

Thanks for posting here. I value your opinion and respect it.

If I may I would like to comment on it. First of all the word "honor" is thrown around here very loosely but I think we all can relate to it as being defined as to doing what it right even if some disagree about what is considered right.

I play DF a lot as many of us do here. I can only speak on my behalf. Anything I do in life has some effect on how I feel even in this game. I agree with all that leaving a game where players like LIBIAK ALI are is a smart choice and would stink for them if everyone did leave. That however is very rarely the case and it's usually the lower ranked players that get stuck being abused by him.

I feel worse about myself when I just leave a game knowing this and that is why I try to do something about it. So in the cases that I am unable to switch sides and face him as a red I will stay and do what I can as a blue whether the rules say it's right or wrong.

Let me give the example of him spawn killing. Even Zup has posted in the past to all to not spawn kill players. He referred to it as common knowledge and seemed quite upset that players can't seem to understand that. He even passed the comment of saying does he need to impose the immunity for all players to stop it from happening. I think Zup had enough of trying to step in and get players to play with respect and left it to us all to work out amongst ourselves.

Well I am working it out the way that feels right to me. There is no way in the world that I will assist LIBIAK ALI in winning a game when he is on my team. I do not want a win that bad and I don't want the reds to take a lose because of his ways. Once again I am referring to games where I just simply can not switch sides and face him as a red. To me at least, leaving the game in not an option. It would not sit right with me and that is why I do what I do. I can not understand how players who know of LIBIAK ALI's ways would actually stay in a game as his teammate and play in it like nothing wrong in happening.

Call it honor, dishonor, or anything else. I do what feels right and from what I see in those games I do not offend anyone in doing so but in fact get appreciation for it. I know I feel the same way about players that choose similar option against players like ALI.

[Thugz] KappaSpam wrote: I find it insulting to the concept of true honor that people attempt to relegate it to video game. Honor is saving and helping a poor family in the neighborhood, however little you know you'll get in return. Leaving a game because Black Devil Bubi, P-u-t-o, libiak ali, or any other assorted hooliganizer is in it is not dishonor. Doing anything about them is not honor.

Keeping a bomb isn't honor.

Not spawnkilling isn't honor.

Not flying invisible isn't honor.

Flying with a squadmate through thick and thin is not honor.

Literally nothing you could possibly do in this video game can be referred to as either honor or dishonor, and it's an insult to truly honorable people that anybody thinks there is.

My advice to you, Gunz, is to leave whenever you see him. There are people that I just ignore completely. If your honor is at all at stake when it comes to any game, then your circumstances are certainly enviable. I wouldn't recommend teamkilling. That's against the roolz. As J.R.R. Tolkien said, "Those who would defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel." Walking away is just fine.

I consider myself an "honorable" player, the things on your list are the way I fly. Doing or not doing those things isn't what makes me an honorable player, but if I start acting like an ass in game, I would be less honorable. Don't get me wrong, I am sure there are players who act like asses in the real world and behave here and visa versa. I am just what you would call "old school", I don't treat people any different here then in my life. I don't go around pounding on my chest telling people I am better then them. Most of the time I am as humble as can be. My motto has been "I don't think I am better then anyone else, but no one is better then me either". I don't want my ass kissed, but I won't kiss anyone else's either.