[*M]VonHuLK wrote:

GHOSTRIDER1 wrote: Allow me to defend myself.....

First, sneaking. I have no general problem w sneaking, I do it myself from time to time and it is acceptable gameplay. While I don't like to see it employed over and over and very early on what I vehemently disapprove of, is multiple players using the tactic on multiple runs when the opposition is either outnumberd or outgunned.

Second, camping and spawnkilling. I always have and always will kill everything on my scope that is red. My policy on a bomb run of any kind, is to pin the enemy to the runway or carrier. This has been standard op proc for years and I will not stop. My policies on camping have never been to camp for the hell of it but to provide cover and/or confusion for incoming bombers and tanks on the scope or not. I also, as a general policy camp in defend the zep and ctc as a means of suppression, and will continue to do so.

Third, tank glich. I do not approve of this tactic but have succumbed to the temptation about a dozen times all togeather either to end a long fought game with one or two hits, to repay a red who did the same, or to end a bad game quickly. It seems however that more than half of the times I have used this BG has been in red and I can see how this would look to him. I had no idea it botherd THAT much. Out of respect for you and the countless games we have played, I will not employ this tactic in your presence ever again, and will strive to do the same in other games. If I haves ruined a game for you BG, I am sorry.

Finally, I have always tried to play this game with honor and integrity. I am certainly not the most honorable, but I do not belong lumped in with teamkillers, skers, blatant campers, and droppers like bubi and liback. I my not be the most honorable but I have NEVER had a ban, 1 negative word said about me on this forum until today. I don't drop unless provoked, and continue to fight as if I have a bomb after the fact. I don't camp Just for stats, I don't sneak on a weaker team, and I rarely run my mouth. I ALWAYS give and honor a pass when it's needed and ALWAYS will.

There have been some negative things said about me here today, and I don't appreciate it. Anybody on here who has a problem is welcome to PM me to discuss an issue before airing any beef publicly. I am confedent that any negitive feelings toward me are are outweighed by positive feelings from those who know me.

My code has always been my code and its non negotiable. There has been no "change" in my gameplay and there never will be.

I have somethings I would like to air out here,
1. You shoot me WAY too much.

2. You are ALWAYS red.

3. You... Well, I will think of something later.

I shoot YOU way to much? That's rich. Lol

We had some fun giving Libiak some [M]isfit love tonight. PunkChef, Wabbit, and myself were giving it to him. BeBonan35 also was awesome in this one killing him on a regular basis. At one point Libiak was hanging at our base waiting to camp and spawnkill...I got him and then he tried to do his usual tank glitch...but he got it in the chute (hey that sounds bad).

Big hat off to BeBonan35 for the ultimate finish...he tank glitched and finished it off. Of course you know normally I wouldn't approve, but I thought it was quite fitting to beat a cheater at his own game.

Gotta admit Libiak...you're awful fun to kill...douchebag.

[*M]Comet wrote: We had some fun giving Libiak some [M]isfit love tonight. PunkChef, Wabbit, and myself were giving it to him. BeBonan35 also was awesome in this one killing him on a regular basis. At one point Libiak was hanging at our base waiting to camp and spawnkill...I got him and then he tried to do his usual tank glitch...but he got it in the chute (hey that sounds bad).

Big hat off to BeBonan35 for the ultimate finish...he tank glitched and finished it off. Of course you know normally I wouldn't approve, but I thought it was quite fitting to beat a cheater at his own game.

Gotta admit Libiak...you're awful fun to kill...douchebag.

Nice Comet and all. Without a doubt I know you will handle the situation. Using the tank glitch against a glitcher is exactly what needs to be done. Next time pin the butthead too.

Bottom line, when LIBIAK ALI is in a game, he will use any and every tactic available. Everyone else should only be thinking about beating him to it.

Can we add Bubi to this list?

SavageViking wrote: Can we add Bubi to this list?

Bubi has already been on everyone's list. That's without say!

Wondering if libiak is p#u#t#o#? The hashtags seem consistent. If it is the same person, they are a royal d-bag.

Anyone who has been defending GHOSTRIDER1, sorry to break the news. The guy has no class. He may show respect around some of you, but definitely not around me.

I don't care one bit how he wants to keep playing. Glitch...drop...fly to the moon for all I care. It's just amuzing to me how he states one thing about hating players that do certain things, then goes ahead and does it himself. Lol..guess he really hates himself. He just stated in a post above how he hates sneakers against a team that is outnumbered. Look at my screen shots and you will see how he just did it in a 4 vs 2 game. He will say that he was on radar. I can guarantee you all that he was not, until what you see in the screen shot because I was expecting him. I just got killed on a run right before the screen shot and never saw him, not even on radar so I knew he was sneaking. His team was sneaking the whole game and we were onto it the whole time.

I made this thread simply to let all know that if they see me doing something wrong it's simply for payback. I kept my play clean in this game because CC Rider was a red and I have a great deal of respect for my brotha and did not want to offend him. I will not be doing that anymore when GHOSTRIDER1 is a red. So I apologize to all that I may offend. Any and everyone that knows me knows that I will never play this way without a reason for it.

GHOSTRIDER1 is worse than LIBIAK ALI. At least LIBIAK ALI doesn't make any claims to play a certain way.

Now this is what I mean about players like this.

What Comet and crew did in that game I wish everyone would do. I even took it a step further.

Yesss I team killed and I do not apologize for it. This is a perfect example of when team killing should be acceptable. Even my red counter parts enjoyed my assistance. They all understood why I was doing this. My own teammates did too and were cool with it.

I came into this game on a run with LIBIAK ALI not realizing he was on the run with me. As we started killing some reds it clicked when I saw his name on the screen. I said to myself "what the heck am I doing". I autodestroyed and thankfully the reds killed him. I was not gonna let help him. If fact, I did the opposite.

A game like this is purely principle and I was very happy to take the lose. I would much rather lose the game than win by helping LIBIAK ALI.

Sorry Gunzz. You aren't even at 1 thousand feet. Ghost typically approaches around 5k. That lets you see sneakers as well. Unfortunate that you and he can't get along. He also has a dark plane against a night back drop making it hard to see. He hands me my ass too when he is red. He also usually carries only 1 bomb for maneuverability. These things aren't cheating, bro.

TXLAWMAN wrote: Sorry Gunzz. You aren't even at 1 thousand feet. Ghost typically approaches around 5k. That lets you see sneakers as well. Unfortunate that you and he can't get along. He also has a dark plane against a night back drop making it hard to see. He hands me my ass too when he is red. He also usually carries only 1 bomb for maneuverability. These things aren't cheating, bro.

I can care less if he and I get along. There are players here that I respect and then those that I do not. He always had my respect, but that is all gone now.

I can tell you that you are so wrong. I tried explaining how I just got back to my base after a run in my last post. He never showed up on my radar. I am more than qualified to know if a player was sneaking or not and I assure you he was.

Reason my altitude is not high is because I just spawned as he was descending. Also because, before this screenshot, he had already killed me once on his descent. Yes he got the hanger and won the game. It's the best kind of lose I can take. It always is when it comes to a play like this. I feel like I see who the loser really is.

I get it TX. You guys are squadmates and you are defending him. You can always rely on me telling things exactly how they are. I have never stated false statements against someone and I never will.

*** I just added this on: I didn't claim he was cheating here. I was stating how he himself made the claim of hating players that do the same thing he did. Cheating? No. Would I call it cheap? Yes! ***

There are always going to be players out there that we don't like. Whether it's how they choose to play or how they conduct themselves. Different backgrounds and cultures come into play here too. We simply do not all think alike. If we did, obviously, the outside world would probably be in a better place...wow, heavy man...

I've never had an issue with GR1. I find him a valuable teammate when blue and a pain in the arse as a red. But obviously he and you aren't exchanging Christmas gifts this year Gunzzz. That's just how it goes.

Libiak on the other hand has been a knucklehead right from the first time I ran into him. Never a team player, never an honorable pilot, never going to change. I won't stay with him as a blue because there's no working with him towards a win. And team killing the guy doesn't make him smarten up. Not worth the loss of points to me so I look for another game. As a red though, I sure don't mind going after him.

For me, these guys are in two completely different categories. But that's just my opinion.

But not all grudges have to be permanent. Remember, you and I had some problems awhile back, and some time passed. Now it's all good. I felt bad that it happened but am happy it was fixed. Life's too short comes to mind.

I'm not sure what my point is here. So that tells you that this post of mine is too long winded...

if you see libiak ali on your side as a blue do what i did yesterday tell the reds your standing down because you refuse to aid a cheat i did a plur on him and watch him struggle alone i didnt leave left my game running went made a cup of tea and a sandwich (if you leave some noob will join the game who has no idea this guy is a flying TURD) i got a screen shot of him for the noobs so they know what he looks like

TXLAWMAN wrote: Wondering if libiak is p#u#t#o#? The hashtags seem consistent. If it is the same person, they are a royal d-bag.

I don't think they are the same, only because I have never seen Libiak say anything in-game, whereas PUTO does. They may be friends though.

The vigilante thing seems to be going well.

At some point however, things are going to move on. When T.A.S.K. was going after "offenders" it came full circle to the point where the vigilantes were "ruining" games. Remember that the majority of players never make it to the forum, sure most of the top 100-200 May, but there are many who will only see what is happening in game and won't know the background. These actions will be the example led by some top players.

I still am unable to subscribe and only tend to play a few games a week. If I log in for one game and this stuff is going on it is ruining the game for me. I would far rather fight it out in a real game with or against a laibeck, bubi, or Kero Zen than to step aside while someone has a temper tantrum rather than just fighting the game as it comes to them.

One of the most common paradoxes here is that people blame "abusive" players for being weak. Why then is it a problem to just out play them instead of going on a vindictive witch hunt?

libiak is far from weak he a excellent player when he plays fair. But ive posted stuff a year ago about him where he dropped his bombs and went and sat on the red carrier waiting for a noob to shoot him so he can use the tank on carrier Glitch that is weak play! He just wants a win at any cost i dont know if he thinks is fair or not due to the fact he never talks in game im a subscriber and if i didnt subscribe and this guy ended the game in 3 minutes by doing this id be peed off

[NLR] McFate wrote: The vigilante thing seems to be going well.

At some point however, things are going to move on. When T.A.S.K. was going after "offenders" it came full circle to the point where the vigilantes were "ruining" games. Remember that the majority of players never make it to the forum, sure most of the top 100-200 May, but there are many who will only see what is happening in game and won't know the background. These actions will be the example led by some top players.

I still am unable to subscribe and only tend to play a few games a week. If I log in for one game and this stuff is going on it is ruining the game for me. I would far rather fight it out in a real game with or against a laibeck, bunk, or Kero Zen than to step aside while someone has a temper tantrum rather than just fighting the game as it comes to them.

One of the most common paradoxes here is that people blame "abusive" players for being weak. Why then is it a problem to just out play them instead of going on a vindictive witch hunt?

I understand that people are peed off. Is the witch hunt helping anything? It may be soothing to shoot him and chase off his teams. Is this just going to be the new paradigm? Whenever this guy appears the game is called off until... what? when? I'm afraid that the carrier glitch seems to be here to stay. I'm not intending to use it but if it goes on indefinitely it will become part of a "normal" game.

Okay? So now what?

I suppose we're just waiting for him to change his evil ways...?


We've been here before: Rules, complaints and etiquette...*sigh*

Dognamitt wrote: libiak is far from weak he a excellent player when he plays fair. But ive posted stuff a year ago about him where he dropped his bombs and went and sat on the red carrier waiting for a noob to shoot him so he can use the tank on carrier Glitch that is weak play! He just wants a win at any cost i dont know if he thinks is fair or not due to the fact he never talks in game im a subscriber and if i didnt subscribe and this guy ended the game in 3 minutes by doing this id be peed off

[NLR] McFate wrote: The vigilante thing seems to be going well.

At some point however, things are going to move on. When T.A.S.K. was going after "offenders" it came full circle to the point where the vigilantes were "ruining" games. Remember that the majority of players never make it to the forum, sure most of the top 100-200 May, but there are many who will only see what is happening in game and won't know the background. These actions will be the example led by some top players.

I still am unable to subscribe and only tend to play a few games a week. If I log in for one game and this stuff is going on it is ruining the game for me. I would far rather fight it out in a real game with or against a laibeck, bunk, or Kero Zen than to step aside while someone has a temper tantrum rather than just fighting the game as it comes to them.

One of the most common paradoxes here is that people blame "abusive" players for being weak. Why then is it a problem to just out play them instead of going on a vindictive witch hunt?

Whoa. Another McPost with a link attached...probably from the NLR Unofficial Library or whatever it's called...that means it's well thought out and legit fellas...

Guess that's a wrap...on to other things now...

I just enjoyed killing the loser and beating him at his own game that's all...thought a screen shot would be cool...didn't realize I was a vigilante...

[*M]Comet wrote: There are always going to be players out there that we don't like. Whether it's how they choose to play or how they conduct themselves. Different backgrounds and cultures come into play here too. We simply do not all think alike. If we did, obviously, the outside world would probably be in a better place...wow, heavy man...

I've never had an issue with GR1. I find him a valuable teammate when blue and a pain in the arse as a red. But obviously he and you aren't exchanging Christmas gifts this year Gunzzz. That's just how it goes.

Libiak on the other hand has been a knucklehead right from the first time I ran into him. Never a team player, never an honorable pilot, never going to change. I won't stay with him as a blue because there's no working with him towards a win. And team killing the guy doesn't make him smarten up. Not worth the loss of points to me so I look for another game. As a red though, I sure don't mind going after him.

For me, these guys are in two completely different categories. But that's just my opinion.

But not all grudges have to be permanent. Remember, you and I had some problems awhile back, and some time passed. Now it's all good. I felt bad that it happened but am happy it was fixed. Life's too short comes to mind.

I'm not sure what my point is here. So that tells you that this post of mine is too long winded...

Yeah me too Comet! You are one great guy to know in this game and I am glad that issue is behind us. The same has happened with me and a couple of other players. One in particular. I couldn't stand a player here and now I actually look foward to seeing him in the skies. I think the feeling is mutual since we always kid around now.

So will it happen with these guys too? Maybe. Time will tell.

As for your long winded post, I may be to blame for that. Looks like you may be picking up on some of my ways because man do I talk toooooo much.

Dognamitt wrote: if you see libiak ali on your side as a blue do what i did yesterday tell the reds your standing down because you refuse to aid a cheat i did a plur on him and watch him struggle alone i didnt leave left my game running went made a cup of tea and a sandwich (if you leave some noob will join the game who has no idea this guy is a flying TURD) i got a screen shot of him for the noobs so they know what he looks like

LMAO

Another one of your awesome pics!

You really know how to make a guy laugh.

E*A*G*L*E wrote:

TXLAWMAN wrote: Wondering if libiak is p#u#t#o#? The hashtags seem consistent. If it is the same person, they are a royal d-bag.

I don't think they are the same, only because I have never seen Libiak say anything in-game, whereas PUTO does. They may be friends though.

I too don't think they are the same player. PUTO seems to be a better turn fighter than LIBIAK whereas LIBIAK seems to be better in the head to head than PUTO.

Maybe they should start a "###" squad.

D93 Big Gunzzz wrote: Anyone who has been defending GHOSTRIDER1, sorry to break the news. The guy has no class. He may show respect around some of you, but definitely not around me.

I don't care one bit how he wants to keep playing. Glitch...drop...fly to the moon for all I care. It's just amuzing to me how he states one thing about hating players that do certain things, then goes ahead and does it himself. Lol..guess he really hates himself. He just stated in a post above how he hates sneakers against a team that is outnumbered. Look at my screen shots and you will see how he just did it in a 4 vs 2 game. He will say that he was on radar. I can guarantee you all that he was not, until what you see in the screen shot because I was expecting him. I just got killed on a run right before the screen shot and never saw him, not even on radar so I knew he was sneaking. His team was sneaking the whole game and we were onto it the whole time.

I made this thread simply to let all know that if they see me doing something wrong it's simply for payback. I kept my play clean in this game because CC Rider was a red and I have a great deal of respect for my brotha and did not want to offend him. I will not be doing that anymore when GHOSTRIDER1 is a red. So I apologize to all that I may offend. Any and everyone that knows me knows that I will never play this way without a reason for it.

GHOSTRIDER1 is worse than LIBIAK ALI. At least LIBIAK ALI doesn't make any claims to play a certain way.

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I tried to be polite and diplomatic about this but you seem intent on slinging mud my way, after I apologized and invited you to PM me if there were any further issues. However, if ugly is what you want then ugly what you'll get. If you spent half as much time working on your game play as you do bitching about me kicking your ass I would probably never leave the runway.

I snuck Twice in that game. Once Low and from the west, in which you pegged me in that little valley. Another high and down the middle, you popped me from ur chute because I was foolish enough to dive with only 1 hit left. That last and final play I stayed at 11 to 13,000 and was on radar the entire way. You and infernal ignored my presence. You chose to respwan, infernal I'm guessing was either in a chute or a tank. I took a shallow dive and put you on your ass twice. You had ample opportunity to stop me, and failed. I didn't pull any of that fancy crap, We beat you fair and square.

If you want to drop and hunt me in future games you go right on ahead, but I probably won't bother, i'm not into duling or turn fighting.

I can't help but feel you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument. As far as I'm concerned it's not even an argument, seeing as how the only person I've seen corroborate your viewpoint isn't exactly of sterling reputation.

I know you feel pretty special because you made Moraf in six months. But you didn't have to claw your way to 25 or 26 while loosing your kills if you crash or don't land or chute safely. You didn't have to endure the baptism by fire from the true OGs of this game that had no mercy. You don't know a dogfight with 7:1 games. You don't remember the golden era of this game when we had MODs and little tress like you were banned and hunted to the ends of the dogfight world. You don't know a dogfight with only a handful of squads, when it meant something to be invited into a squad, not a bunch of fools telling level 7 players with 2:26 KDRs and no history. "join my squad"You don't know a dogfight where 3 hangers could be hit w one bomb and planes only carried one. You don't know a dogfight where camping and borderline SK were commonplace by ALL players especially senior ones. You don't know a dogfight without a large screen atvantage like you have. WELL I DO!!!!!! I made my bones buddy boy!!!! You stumbled into yours with lots of hours, easy ones, well after this game was wussified to appeal to a younger, whinnier, self entitled mainstream "gamer"
Such as yourself. Do you need a "Safe Place" or quiet time in which to play your stress card you sissy freaky la la. WELL THIS IS NOT THE PLACE AND IM NOT THE ONE!!!

How DARE you come in here with a few easy kills under your belt, run your mouth, insult me and call me a liar in public. Who the hell do you think you are???? Do you think because you have some kills that your some respected pillar of the game to insult me and question my integrity?

i stated my policies for fair play, apologized, as one has to do for EVERYTHING in the world today, and gave you time to respond. This is your response???? WTF is wrong with you?

I have said my piece and now consider the matter closed. You do what you want, but excuse me if I just avoid you from here on, I wouldn't want to offend your delicate little ego and give you more ammunition for another one of your sniveling little diatribes.

I'm adding Cannonfodder tank glitching next game I see him as blue I'm gonna sit there all game even if out numbered see how he dose

TXLAWMAN wrote: Sorry Gunzz. You aren't even at 1 thousand feet. Ghost typically approaches around 5k. That lets you see sneakers as well. Unfortunate that you and he can't get along. He also has a dark plane against a night back drop making it hard to see. He hands me my ass too when he is red. He also usually carries only 1 bomb for maneuverability. These things aren't cheating, bro.

I ALWAYS carry both! Unless there is only one hanger left.

[*M]Comet wrote: But obviously he and you aren't exchanging Christmas gifts this year Gunzzz...

We're not?????? Has it come to that? Does this mean I need to return the diaper, blanket and bottle I got for gunzzz in exchange for lead and TNT?

[*M]Comet wrote: We had some fun giving Libiak some [M]isfit love tonight. PunkChef, Wabbit, and myself were giving it to him. BeBonan35 also was awesome in this one killing him on a regular basis. At one point Libiak was hanging at our base waiting to camp and spawnkill...I got him and then he tried to do his usual tank glitch...but he got it in the chute (hey that sounds bad).

Big hat off to BeBonan35 for the ultimate finish...he tank glitched and finished it off. Of course you know normally I wouldn't approve, but I thought it was quite fitting to beat a cheater at his own game.

Gotta admit Libiak...you're awful fun to kill...douchebag.

Is oils like to point out in this game there were many reds that left because of Ali's style.the game was very level and fair until he showed up.we did not use vigilante tactics on him we fought are way there.then he felt the need to sneak and try a tank glitch .only to leave his team ate wise open for attack .if you notice I took last place in that game just for the fact that I made Ali a target of priority and traded kills with him the whole time he was there.I did this not to chase him off but for my team .it's getting really freaking old how these guys use cheap and low forms of play and claim all s fair in war or it's a great tactic.I've lost respect for some and gained respect for others .but the ones I called friends that fly like this now are the one the bother me the most .

[NLR] McFate wrote: The vigilante thing seems to be going well.

At some point however, things are going to move on. When T.A.S.K. was going after "offenders" it came full circle to the point where the vigilantes were "ruining" games. Remember that the majority of players never make it to the forum, sure most of the top 100-200 May, but there are many who will only see what is happening in game and won't know the background. These actions will be the example led by some top players.

I still am unable to subscribe and only tend to play a few games a week. If I log in for one game and this stuff is going on it is ruining the game for me. I would far rather fight it out in a real game with or against a laibeck, bubi, or Kero Zen than to step aside while someone has a temper tantrum rather than just fighting the game as it comes to them.

One of the most common paradoxes here is that people blame "abusive" players for being weak. Why then is it a problem to just out play them instead of going on a vindictive witch hunt?

I did read your other post and the link that was included. When it comes to you McFate, you make some very valid points and have some great insight to things here, most likely because of prior experiences.

I am going to try to squeeze in a response to both of your posts as well as the comments made from Dognamitt and Comet that followed.

I fully understand where you are coming from about making the point when does it come to an end and does it really do any good. The way I see it is these players ruin a game that there are in especially for the lower ranks that have no chance to defend themselves.

As Comet mentioned, I actually am enjoying giving some payback. He nailed it by saying "beating him at his own game". When a guy like LIBIAK is in a game, the game is already going to go down the tubes anyway. So why should the reds take it from him. I would rather reverse the roles and dish it out to him. Even when I was on LIBIAK's team and took the lose willingly, I didn't mind one bit doing so, neither did my teammmates. The reds where quite happy about it too. Seemed to me the only one that didn't enjoy it was LIBIAK. If that can be accomplished all the time then I think this approach is successful.

Dognamitt is right. LIBIAK ALI is actually a very good player. He does go through some spurts where he plays honorably and does very well. I was actually amazed to see that he is quite good in the head to head. It's not often that I get to face him in the head to head because he usually has other objectives in the game.

The one thing that I find myself disagreeing with you the most is that you often mention that if it is not against the rules stated by Zup than it is considered fair play even if it is not liked by a player. Sometimes things are just so obvious that they do not have to be written. It's just seen and understood.

What LIBIAK ALI does in the games is not so difficult to do, well the spawn killing does take some talent. Everything else, not at all. He will fly bombless shooting down planes. Not too difficult to do. Flying bombless with the sole purpose to reach the enemy hangers or carrier to set up for the glitch, once again not difficult. Bombing all the hangers while he is flying invisible (which he will do when he is invisible instead of leaving the game), once again easy peasy. Now none of these things are bannable or against any written rules. It's just common sense that they are wrong. What if everyone played like this all the time? Would the game be any fun at all? Nope, not one bit.

So for right now I do have a mission at hand. That is to go after guys like this. I would be very honored should I see other players doing the same. Looks like some are and I know many also will just by the type of player some guys/girls are here.

I get myself geared up and hunt for some turkeys. Gotta make sure there's enough kills to feed us all for next Thanksgiving.

GHOSTRIDER1 wrote:

D93 Big Gunzzz wrote: Anyone who has been defending GHOSTRIDER1, sorry to break the news. The guy has no class. He may show respect around some of you, but definitely not around me.

I don't care one bit how he wants to keep playing. Glitch...drop...fly to the moon for all I care. It's just amuzing to me how he states one thing about hating players that do certain things, then goes ahead and does it himself. Lol..guess he really hates himself. He just stated in a post above how he hates sneakers against a team that is outnumbered. Look at my screen shots and you will see how he just did it in a 4 vs 2 game. He will say that he was on radar. I can guarantee you all that he was not, until what you see in the screen shot because I was expecting him. I just got killed on a run right before the screen shot and never saw him, not even on radar so I knew he was sneaking. His team was sneaking the whole game and we were onto it the whole time.

I made this thread simply to let all know that if they see me doing something wrong it's simply for payback. I kept my play clean in this game because CC Rider was a red and I have a great deal of respect for my brotha and did not want to offend him. I will not be doing that anymore when GHOSTRIDER1 is a red. So I apologize to all that I may offend. Any and everyone that knows me knows that I will never play this way without a reason for it.

GHOSTRIDER1 is worse than LIBIAK ALI. At least LIBIAK ALI doesn't make any claims to play a certain way.

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I tried to be polite and diplomatic about this but you seem intent on slinging mud my way, after I apologized and invited you to PM me if there were any further issues. However, if ugly is what you want then ugly what you'll get. If you spent half as much time working on your game play as you do bitching about me kicking your ass I would probably never leave the runway.

I snuck Twice in that game. Once Low and from the west, in which you pegged me in that little valley. Another high and down the middle, you popped me from ur chute because I was foolish enough to dive with only 1 hit left. That last and final play I stayed at 11 to 13,000 and was on radar the entire way. You and infernal ignored my presence. You chose to respwan, infernal I'm guessing was either in a chute or a tank. I took a shallow dive and put you on your ass twice. You had ample opportunity to stop me, and failed. I didn't pull any of that fancy crap, We beat you fair and square.

If you want to drop and hunt me in future games you go right on ahead, but I probably won't bother, i'm not into duling or turn fighting.

I can't help but feel you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument. As far as I'm concerned it's not even an argument, seeing as how the only person I've seen corroborate your viewpoint isn't exactly of sterling reputation.

I know you feel pretty special because you made Moraf in six months. But you didn't have to claw your way to 25 or 26 while loosing your kills if you crash or don't land or chute safely. You didn't have to endure the baptism by fire from the true OGs of this game that had no mercy. You don't know a dogfight with 7:1 games. You don't remember the golden era of this game when we had MODs and little tress like you were banned and hunted to the ends of the dogfight world. You don't know a dogfight with only a handful of squads, when it meant something to be invited into a squad, not a bunch of fools telling level 7 players with 2:26 KDRs and no history. "join my squad"You don't know a dogfight where 3 hangers could be hit w one bomb and planes only carried one. You don't know a dogfight where camping and borderline SK were commonplace by ALL players especially senior ones. You don't know a dogfight without a large screen atvantage like you have. WELL I DO!!!!!! I made my bones buddy boy!!!! You stumbled into yours with lots of hours, easy ones, well after this game was wussified to appeal to a younger, whinnier, self entitled mainstream "gamer"
Such as yourself. Do you need a "Safe Place" or quiet time in which to play your stress card you sissy freaky la la. WELL THIS IS NOT THE PLACE AND IM NOT THE ONE!!!

How DARE you come in here with a few easy kills under your belt, run your mouth, insult me and call me a liar in public. Who the hell do you think you are???? Do you think because you have some kills that your some respected pillar of the game to insult me and question my integrity?

i stated my policies for fair play, apologized, as one has to do for EVERYTHING in the world today, and gave you time to respond. This is your response???? WTF is wrong with you?

I have said my piece and now consider the matter closed. You do what you want, but excuse me if I just avoid you from here on, I wouldn't want to offend your delicate little ego and give you more ammunition for another one of your sniveling little diatribes.

Wow...where to start.

For one, thanks for proving to me the person that you are. Thank you very much for the insults. I mean that. I take it as a compliment when a player who uses tactics such as yourself throws them out at me. I on the other hand may have insulted you a bit by telling it how it was. If you found any insult in that, it was from your own doing. I find that players who choose to use tactics to an unfair advantage have no other way of defending themselves other than trying to make themselves look good and resort to insults. So yesss thank you for the compliments. I must be a better player than I thought to hear remarks like this from you.

You ask who do I think I am? I do not think I am any more special than the next guy. I do not consider myself any better than an aspirant in this game. If your ego needs to do so , by all means go right ahead. I personally do not. I just do not like buttheads in the game. Plain and simple.

I will say it straight out that yes you are the better player when it comes to us two. Do you give me an arse whoopping? Nope and not even close. You and I both know that so relax with your trash talk. A big reason why you do tend to get the better of me is that you will fly to altitudes above all others for the advantage. There is nothing wrong with that either, but yes it does give you the advantage. As you and I both know, when I flew above you and played your style I in fact got the better of you. Point proven. We all know that to be true that the advantage goes to the plane at the higher altitude. I just don't play this way regularly as you choose to do because I like to grunt it out and don't find it necessary to gain an advantage over the other players. I like to duke it out.

You remind me of a typical stubborn man that is so set on the way things were in the past and can not conform to the way things are in the present. All your remarks about how things were are very valid, but they do not exist today. And no I did not have the same break through period that you did. I may even say I may have had it tougher. How many MORAFS existed when you made your rise? Well when I did there where about 300 of them. That is a far cry from being called having it easy. I can list so many players that made my learning process here a difficult one, but at the same time I am thankful to them because I learned from watching them. There is no seperation of noobs and MORAFs and I took quite a whooping along my entire time here until I was able to up my game and compete with many great players here. Thanks to these guys I think I am doing just fine now. So please save your remarks about trying to down play my game because even you know that I can hang with the best of them, even though some guys still make me feel like a noob.

I have been here seven months. That seems relatively short, right? Well that is the furthest from the truth. When you account how much I actually do play this game those seven months are equivilent to over two years easily, if not more. I am ranked under 80. Not too bad I must say. Even more impressive is that I made it here honorably. I never used any questionable tactics in games unless it was for payback. Just take a look at my stats. They are very well balanced actually my hanger and win count are on the lower end which is because I do play too fair. My kills and deaths prove how I like to battle it out without having to have the upper hand over my fellow pilots. Can I play that way? Sure I can and I can quite well. Difference is I choose not to. I like myself this way. The stats and wins mean nothing to me. I just enjoy playing the game.

Now as for the sneak that you are defending that you did not do. How much of a noob to you think Infernal and I are that we can not tell if a player is sneaking? Infernal was in a tank heading for your base. How do I know? Because I was killed in my plane very close to where he was. Not once did you appear on radar and I did not see you ahead of me which made me realize that you definitely were on the sneak. 4 vs 2 I would have thought you would have some honor in not doing so, but I was wrong. That is when I spawned at my base and you had already started your descent from the sneak.

It was a bit too late for me to have a good chance to get the kill on you. Yes you did kill me two times and you pulled off a very successful sneak. Job well done by you. You are a great player and I never said otherwise. It is some of your choices that I do not respect and from what I see, I don't think you do either. You often have choice words to say to players in a game that use the same tactics that you do. So to see you use them against me is even more disrespectful to me than the average joe shmoe.

There is no whinning on my part, no b'ing, nothing of the sort. I am simply stating it as it is. If you didn't want your name being posted around for your style of play, well then you may want to think about your choice of play. I never said a thing about it after a seeing it a couple of times. It is however becoming a regular with you and that disrespect towards me is what earned you none from me.

As for your apology for using the tank glitch against me? Well I kept in in mind, but then seeing how you used the sneak in the game last night and seeing your approach on your post, well I can see the true you. Your apology doesn't mean a thing.

Play how you like. Post what you want. I will do the same. I did not ask you to play or to speak a certain way. These were your own choices. I however will not ever make any false accusations against anyone. And if I do along the way and realize that I made a mistake, believe me that I am man enough to fess up about it and make a sincere apology for it. Being that you can not just admit to sneaking in this game, well is another thing I have against the person you are. Didn't you realize that neither Infernal or I showed up on you radar? Yeah no poop sherlock. It's called a sneak.

Well Gunzz,

Your hunt is justified. Just be careful about crossing the line where you start "ruining" games for others. (I'm not talking about ruining things for Libiak.) Once again, keep in mind that the majority of players do not visit the forum and that if you are ignoring the mission to punish someone, you may be encouraging more of what you are trying to discourage.

As far as the rules go, there are very few. Strict enforcement is not possible, vigilante justice is messy and whining makes it a miserable place to be. The "soul crushing" message that I'm always advocating is to rise up and fight, to use strategy to counter tactics that you consider unfair. If someone is "ruining" your game by breaking rules report them. If they are "ruining" your game while not breaking any rules figure out how to defeat them. That's how war games are supposed to work.

[NLR] McFate wrote: Well Gunzz,

Your hunt is justified. Just be careful about crossing the line where you start "ruining" games for others. (I'm not talking about ruining things for Libiak.) Once again, keep in mind that the majority of players do not visit the forum and that if you are ignoring the mission to punish someone, you may be encouraging more of what you are trying to discourage.

As far as the rules go, there are very few. Strict enforcement is not possible, vigilante justice is messy and whining makes it a miserable place to be. The "soul crushing" message that I'm always advocating is to rise up and fight, to use strategy to counter tactics that you consider unfair. If someone is "ruining" your game by breaking rules report them. If they are "ruining" your game while not breaking any rules figure out how to defeat them. That's how war games are supposed to work.

As I mentioned you opinions are respected by me because you often make valid points. I did take into consideration what my actions will do to others in the game. When a player like LIBIAK ALI enters a game someone is going to get the short end of the stick.

So what do I do? I match his play and even try to get the better of him. Where LIBIAK will have it out for all the reds in the game, I do not. I solely go after him and avoid firing on any other reds in the process even if they fire upon me, unless they are being a butthead too. I understand that now I am doing the same thing as he is, but I think my actions are justified. Many players that do know his ways (unfortunately not all...as you stated not everyone uses forum and are not up to par with everything that goes on) are more than ok with my choice and even most will take part in doing the same.

So that is what I mean. The game ruined once he appears in it and yes for all. Instead of having many players getting killed by him I try to limit his ability to do so. Isn't it better for players not being spawn killed over and over again if I can do something about it? That is why I give it all I got even if I get a beat down doing it. At least I try.

Dealing with a player who drops to camp.
It's fairly simple, all you have to do is mirror their play. They will get tired of not getting kills and leave. I have done this to Bubi, for some time now. They are all the same, looking for easy kills.
I think Ghostrider and Gunz should wrestle naked in a pool of melted butter, then we will see who comes out on top. lol I can be the promoter, like a white Don King.