Ok there are so many that say there are no rules that are clear in Df . So hopefully with zups help we can vote on some official rules. So let's start with the camping and spawn killing

Ok we all hate spawn killers . Spawn killing from a tank is bannable and should be from a plane .now camping is ok only when there's plane coming in or in covering a tank that's shooting at the base .not when there is no planes or tanks anywhere near the base or ship.now shooting planes when on a bomb run is also acceptable and not considered spawn killing As long as I have been playing this has always been the acceptable way to fly .

So if we can vote on this subject and this subject only we can start forming official rules for Df .please do not start other rules until this rule is voted on and made hopefully official by zup .

It's time to hammer out some clear cut rules. So we can all fly and enjoy the game

well unfortunately rules get broken and people get greedy point and harvesting dropping and camping to make their stats look good.
IM not sure when it says destroy the carrier or destroy enemy base in the game is normal now and its sumthing you have to deal with
im not sure what goes thru peoples heads when its a bomb the base or carrier mission they leave their base with out the ability to do so ?
hit auto destroy-exit and find someone with honor and integrity who wants to play fair and real

Unfortunately almost every rule gets broken by noobs .and now.there are so many noobs it's not funny .So if we can come up with some rules make them.official with zups.help and make the rules visible to all like when loading the game a screen shows up with written rules.by zup people can no longer say there is.no rule.against it the rules should be clear and simple

As a.Df community member I'm tired of having to go through cycles of noobs that do whatever they want after years of flying I've been through about seven cycles of this .I don't mind having noobs in my games but they have no idea what the general rules are .they develop a mind set that hey I can spawn kill and make easy points so that is just how they play until they get banned and say why there is no rule about it they beg sup and the community to come back

How about "Dogfight Etiquette"?

There are no rules, but not to spawnkill from a tank and use bad language.

There are lots of things though that prevent you from making friends here, and everyone should be able to get to know them.

Since rules can not be enforced anyway, it's usefull to have some clue why others are pee-ed off with you, and are out to get you.

It also saves us tons of needles discussions on the forum and on chat, since everyone knows if they are right to be angry, or it's just their bruised ego talking.

I will vote in everything you want ONLY if we have someone to judge and punish those pilots who breaks the law.

"Laws cannot rule where enforcement will not follow"

In order for rules to work there must be some level of agreement, clear definitions, clear ways of determining when a rule is broken and an effective way to enforce the consequences. Otherwise you are just venting and accusing someone else of not living up to your expectations.

Other than "no game ruining behavior" Zup has asked that people be allowed to take off. So it can be argued now that spawnkilling is against the rules. The trouble is that there are exceptions where people believe that spawnkilling should be allowed. Making special rules about doing it from a tank or when you are circling a base is redundant.

Aside from spawnkilling, making rules about "camping " are strategically limiting and nearly impossible to define in any way that would be useful in an enforceable way.


I think it would be great if Zuperman made a clear post of the rules. He does not seem to want to make many rules but if that is the case it should be clearly stated somewhere that is easy to find.

darraxx wrote: Ok there are so many that say there are no rules that are clear in Df . So hopefully with zups help we can vote on some official rules. So let's start with the camping and spawn killing

Ok we all hate spawn killers . Spawn killing from a tank is bannable and should be from a plane .now camping is ok only when there's plane coming in or in covering a tank that's shooting at the base .not when there is no planes or tanks anywhere near the base or ship.now shooting planes when on a bomb run is also acceptable and not considered spawn killing As long as I have been playing this has always been the acceptable way to fly .

So if we can vote on this subject and this subject only we can start forming official rules for Df .please do not start other rules until this rule is voted on and made hopefully official by zup .

It's time to hammer out some clear cut rules. So we can all fly and enjoy the game

This game has had rules.. still have rules. Are u guys o.k. ? If u guys are claiming that Dogfight has no rules & so we need to cast a vote then I am afraid to say that how were u playing ? By what rules ? Because I know ur not a MoRAF that has been playing all this time without rules ? & if so, then that will back up statements that most if not all thee Original Top & bottom +100 MoRAF's got there by Spawn killing ? No ? Why ? Because we have rules. See, I told u so, that we do already have rules ? & enough! This is Zupermans game, not u guys! Only 1 developer. More rules ? Should we invite Moses to come back to earth.. seemingly that the 1rst 10 Commandments were not enough ? U want more rules ? How about more Peace Officers, to catch the more people that breaks the more Laws ? We are being held confined enough ! WE want more but we haven't even utilized what Zup has tooke his time to implement ? lke Team Chat for instance. Use that to strategize against ur opponent instead of always crying & bickering.. If some 1 seems to be duing something in error, then try utilizing with zup has already implemented for our practical use.. it's called Report ?
idk.. maybe it's just me ? I'm from Cali.. California.. were females fight lke grown Men. Females ? Fighting ? What topic of discussion is this ? Sounds lke im in the wrong discussion, sorry about that guys.. I thought this were MADD ? .."Marshals.Against.Drunk.Droppers".


It's ur turn.. to fight !

I hate to say it. But bottom line is little to no punishment = no rules. Zup is only 1 person. 1 person can not sheriff this game 24/7. Until he figures out a way to get help rules are invisible.

From my understanding the Rules of Dogfight and the consequences of breaking them (muting or banning) are on the 1st post of the Lafayette Escadrille thread as #1 Squadron Rule. I wrote them when I first started the squadron and as far as I know that's it.

In Holland we have this nice annoying custom of putting proverbs, sayings etc. on tiles and framing them or tiling them in on the walls.....

I translated this one for you:

Doggy Dix wrote: Well first we should consider what is the correct definition of camping.

How wide is the circle around the base/carrier, that makes as you could say someone is camping?

Camping is.."Hanging around a certain spot", which is fine as long as ur not Camping over a Spawning point in order to Spawn Kill. Which is called Spawn Camping.

| 111 | Heroicz wrote:

Doggy Dix wrote: Well first we should consider what is the correct definition of camping.

How wide is the circle around the base/carrier, that makes as you could say someone is camping?

Camping is.."Hanging around a certain spot", which is fine as long as ur not Camping over a Spawning point in order to Spawn Kill. Which is called Spawn Camping.

So, under this definition there is no problem with "camping", only with spawnkilling.

It's going to have to be etiquette. Laws in DF aren't natural, and what I mean by that is rules in a war game aren't obvious. Thinking about it, there aren't any rules to war, yet we're are trying to make rules for war. See the contradiction?

Every new player wants to relive Pearl harbor, where the Japanese "camped" and "spawnkilled" the Americans.

So, this all falls to the responsibilities of the squads. After all, we( the experienced players ) are trying to only make rules to make the game fair, particularly to the fresh cuts. So, again, its only up the largest squads to enforce etiquette.

When the squads keep their house clean, the jerks get isolated in the games and pushed out. All in all, the game is going relatively well.

Dognamitt wrote: well unfortunately rules get broken and people get greedy point and harvesting dropping and camping to make their stats look good.
IM not sure when it says destroy the carrier or destroy enemy base in the game is normal now and its sumthing you have to deal with
im not sure what goes thru peoples heads when its a bomb the base or carrier mission they leave their base with out the ability to do so ?
hit auto destroy-exit and find someone with honor and integrity who wants to play fair and real

Play Fair & Real.. that's what u said ? O.k..
I'm in a Sopwith Cam F.1.. allied. On German side let's just say, Siemens Schuckert D.IV. These are what is known as WWI Elite Fighter Planes. If u fly 1 of these planes u are what is known as a Fighter Pilot.. presumably assault fighters, equipped only to run light weight bombing missions if even that. Zeppelins were made for the use of heavy bombing runs.

Later in WWII it seems fighter planes were optionally equipped with few smaller bombs intended for light weight bombing missions. No Zeppelin however any longer due to idk, probably a fail ? But we do know that The B.Bombers would take place for the more considerably weightier bombing runs (missions). Who has heard of the famous B.52 Bomber ? Of course, sure we have.. & B.52 is 1 of the most of famous WW planes built for bombing heavy artillery.

Do I look lke I'm in a B. bomber protected by an areal team of assault fighter pilots ? Have u ever seen a B.17/B.24/B.25/B.29/B.52 engage in a turn fight ? If u have, how pretty was it ?

Do u think Germany let up the pounding giving to allied forces just because ally's were beginning to be unsuccessful @ bombing missions ? No, certainly not ! Germany did not stop their areal assault on these so called B.17's/24's/25's/B.29 Bombers !?
What had to happen was that they had to install them with better protection (Assault fighter pilots flew with the Bombers).
Look, I wanna say more but I will say this.. it pays to study, then u want sound as if ur not? Even I may be incorrect about sum of the names & time giving, but the bulk of the matter, point being made still stands correct ! !

[/ It's ur turn.. to fight !







b]

You may have had a slip of the keyboard. B52s were Vietnam era planes. I'm sure you're referring to b17, b24, b25, and b29's, since i assume when you said Germans you were referring to WW2.

But your point is taken.

WEREWOLF {WP} wrote: You may have had a slip of the keyboard. B52s were Vietnam era planes. I'm sure you're referring to b17, b24, b25, and b29's, since i assume when you said Germans you were referring to WW2.

But your point is taken.

[/Of course I know Werewolf.. read the last sentence of my paragraphs. As u see that I noted a disclaimer already ? But thank very much sir for clearity of what I were uncertain about.. but yes, It still hits home.. as we both already mentioned.. thank u again sir. & When I said Germans I'm preferring to WW since Germany fought in both WW1 & WWII ? But I have made correction on which B. Bomber it actually were.. & lke u say, the point of the matter has been made.. which is what I called The "Bulk". ty sir for correcting my statement.. as u see, I'm no bomber ?! b]

Dognamitt wrote: well unfortunately rules get broken and people get greedy point and harvesting dropping and camping to make their stats look good.
IM not sure when it says destroy the carrier or destroy enemy base in the game is normal now and its sumthing you have to deal with
im not sure what goes thru peoples heads when its a bomb the base or carrier mission they leave their base with out the ability to do so ?
hit auto destroy-exit and find someone with honor and integrity who wants to play fair and real

If everything were perfect.. it would be no War.

I'm what u might wanna call a competitive dropper. I will drop my bombs & continue my mission once I subdue the enemy air field. & Let us use the proper names of the missions we are calling out ? Recently I have only seen 1 bombing mission in this game ? I think it is called BTC (Bomb Thee carrier) other then that, I don't know what other bombing missions that zup has implemented ? can u tell me please sirs ? Because im under the assumption that there is only 1 Primary Bombing mission in this Game ? What is the other bombing missions where u must hold ur bomb ? I know of several that allows u to bomb.. but that isn't the only objective.. I say u guys are whoever is badly mistaken ? What in God green earth do u think them little bitty things called TANKS are for ? humm ? let me think ? hmm? idk ? but thinking is gud for ur nervous system.

Fact: U will hear many of pilots state that there is a bomb the base mission (BTB). But as u check, there is no such thing titled in this game. But the misuse in grammer has led people to believing that in a Destroy the Enemy Air Field mission that their primary goal is to bomb ? I laugh @ them while I choose to drop considerably in order to properly engage in a.. what's the name of that again ? Oh yea, now I remember... It's called a DogFight ! How can u bomb a hanger with these planes shooting @ u ? Shouldn't u use tactics to ur advantage or no ? Well if we subdue the enemy airfield it would make it more easier to bomb a Hanger ? Ps.. what are those little thing of a jigs called TANKS for ? Can u please tell me. because idk ?

It's ur turn.. to fight !

| 111 | Heroicz wrote:

Dognamitt wrote: well unfortunately rules get broken and people get greedy point and harvesting dropping and camping to make their stats look good.
IM not sure when it says destroy the carrier or destroy enemy base in the game is normal now and its sumthing you have to deal with
im not sure what goes thru peoples heads when its a bomb the base or carrier mission they leave their base with out the ability to do so ?
hit auto destroy-exit and find someone with honor and integrity who wants to play fair and real

If everything were perfect.. it would be no War.

I'm what u might wanna call a competitive dropper. I will drop my bombs & continue my mission once I subdue the enemy air field. & Let us use the proper names of the missions we are calling out ? Recently I have only seen 1 bombing mission in this game ? I think it is called BTC (Bomb Thee carrier) other then that, I don't know what other bombing missions that zup has implemented ? can u tell me please sirs ? Because im under the assumption that there is only 1 Primary Bombing mission in this Game ? What is the other bombing missions where u must hold ur bomb ? I know of several that allows u to bomb.. but that isn't the only objective.. I say u guys are whoever is badly mistaken ? What in God green earth do u think them little bitty things called TANKS are for ? humm ? let me think ? hmm? idk ? but thinking is gud for ur nervous system.

Fact: U will hear many of pilots state that there is a bomb the base mission (BTB). But as u check, there is no such thing titled in this game. But the misuse in grammer has led people to believing that in a Destroy the Enemy Air Field mission that their primary goal is to bomb ? I laugh @ them while I choose to drop considerably in order to properly engage in a.. what's the name of that again ? Oh yea, now I remember... It's called a DogFight ! How can u bomb a hanger with these planes shooting @ u ? Shouldn't u use tactics to ur advantage or no ? Well if we subdue the enemy airfield it would make it more easier to bomb a Hanger ? Ps.. what are those little thing of a jigs called TANKS for ? Can u please tell me. because idk ?

It's ur turn.. to fight !

Ok really we all know there are tanks in the game who said bomb only. No one so don't go getting all drama here .what would be nice is if we can hold a civil discussion about what is camping and we all agree spawn killing is not acceptable. We are not talking about dropping yet So let's deal with one thing at a time. For me camping is ok when there is planes or tanks in the direct vicinity of the enemy base . Hanging over someone's base when no planes or tanks are near and shooting people before they can even take off is just as bad as spawn killing . You can call it a tactic all you want but it is not considered good form . And most of the people that practice this will leave a game when it's done to them . So.my guess is they are just out point mongering.So we must find a common ground rule for everyone about camping once that is done we can start another subject

darraxx wrote: ... Hanging over someone's base when no planes or tanks are near and shooting people before they can even take off is just as bad as spawn killing .

Actually, that is spawnkilling.

Camping is not necessarily spawnkilling. There are valid tactical reasons to keep the Reds busy at their base for a while. Having a rule against "camping" would limit some tactical play.

It's a great idea and I think we should establish some rules. However, I don't think it'll ever work. I suggested this very thing a couple of months ago by way of electing A council of sorts with representatives from all the major squads. Apparently, zup did not like the idea because he deleted the thread within 24 hours and give me no explanation when I emailed him and PMed him asking why he deleted it.
I don't think the powers that be in this game care at all about establishing any kind of rules or order. And that's fine, I can live with it, I don't like it, I don't agree, but I can live with it

darraxx wrote:

| 111 | Heroicz wrote:

Dognamitt wrote: well unfortunately rules get broken and people get greedy point and harvesting dropping and camping to make their stats look good.
IM not sure when it says destroy the carrier or destroy enemy base in the game is normal now and its sumthing you have to deal with
im not sure what goes thru peoples heads when its a bomb the base or carrier mission they leave their base with out the ability to do so ?
hit auto destroy-exit and find someone with honor and integrity who wants to play fair and real

If everything were perfect.. it would be no War.

I'm what u might wanna call a competitive dropper. I will drop my bombs & continue my mission once I subdue the enemy air field. & Let us use the proper names of the missions we are calling out ? Recently I have only seen 1 bombing mission in this game ? I think it is called BTC (Bomb Thee carrier) other then that, I don't know what other bombing missions that zup has implemented ? can u tell me please sirs ? Because im under the assumption that there is only 1 Primary Bombing mission in this Game ? What is the other bombing missions where u must hold ur bomb ? I know of several that allows u to bomb.. but that isn't the only objective.. I say u guys are whoever is badly mistaken ? What in God green earth do u think them little bitty things called TANKS are for ? humm ? let me think ? hmm? idk ? but thinking is gud for ur nervous system.

Fact: U will hear many of pilots state that there is a bomb the base mission (BTB). But as u check, there is no such thing titled in this game. But the misuse in grammer has led people to believing that in a Destroy the Enemy Air Field mission that their primary goal is to bomb ? I laugh @ them while I choose to drop considerably in order to properly engage in a.. what's the name of that again ? Oh yea, now I remember... It's called a DogFight ! How can u bomb a hanger with these planes shooting @ u ? Shouldn't u use tactics to ur advantage or no ? Well if we subdue the enemy airfield it would make it more easier to bomb a Hanger ? Ps.. what are those little thing of a jigs called TANKS for ? Can u please tell me. because idk ?

It's ur turn.. to fight !

Ok really we all know there are tanks in the game who said bomb only. No one so don't go getting all drama here .what would be nice is if we can hold a civil discussion about what is camping and we all agree spawn killing is not acceptable. We are not talking about dropping yet So let's deal with one thing at a time. For me camping is ok when there is planes or tanks in the direct vicinity of the enemy base . Hanging over someone's base when no planes or tanks are near and shooting people before they can even take off is just as bad as spawn killing . You can call it a tactic all you want but it is not considered good form . And most of the people that practice this will leave a game when it's done to them . So.my guess is they are just out point mongering.So we must find a common ground rule for everyone about camping once that is done we can start another subject

darraxx, are u Mad ? Well, that weren't well put seemingly that u are Mad Rabbit ? Let me rephrase that statement.
darraxx, are u Crazy ?
If u read this thread, well, even better.. read ur opening topic of discussion. In ur 1rst post up top, u have answered ur own question about Camping. & to wit, we have also spoke on Camping in following post of reply under ur topic.. just read this whole thread of ur's & u will get ur answer about camping ? Start with ur Post 1rst up top. ty sir. have u been drinking again ? Just sayn doe bud ?

It's ur turn.. to fight !

WEREWOLF {WP} wrote: ....
So, this all falls to the responsibilities of the squads. After all, we( the experienced players ) are trying to only make rules to make the game fair, particularly to the fresh cuts. So, again, its only up the largest squads to enforce etiquette.

The question is: What is acceptable and who decides?

The point of squads seems more to be a collection of people who share common philosophy on how to play the game. The perspective can be fairly common sense or it can be fairly fringe. Once a squad decides to police the game it can become a vigilante mob who can drive off new players who have not found "the rules" posted anywhere.

There have been many times where a member of a squad has reported on a newer player who was offending them in some way only to have the rest of the squad go hunting them. The noob has often asked for an explanation of what the rules are and where to find them only to be ridiculed and vilified.

On one hand, established players often accuse droppers of "stat padding" (which may or may not be true) while on the other hand it is just as valid of a point to say that established players are trying to protect their stats by insisting that players without as much experience/skill meet them head on. The argument that droppers ruin games is only true if you can't figure out how to counter the dropper. With team chat now available there really is no excuse for the lack of ability to work strategically with your team.

Anyone trying to police others into adopting their playing style through shaming is bullying, especially if they call on their squad to go after a newer player. Other established players who's play style you don't like are fair game in-game but there are actual rules against flaming anyone in-game or on the forum , while no rules exist against droppers, sneakers or campers.

From my understanding of the game & of zuperman the only true rules are you are not to spawnkill planes with a tank either on or next to the runway, and you cannot block an enemy runway with your plane or tank.. along with those, intentional teamkilling & bombing of your own hangars or carrier is against the rules.

That's it.

There is NO rule against spawnkilling with your plane & camping isn't even an issue unless it's accompanied by spawnkilling.. which since there isn't a rule against spawnkilling, camping is a moot issue.

ZebraUp wrote: From my understanding of the game & of zuperman the only true rules are you are not to spawnkill planes with a tank either on or next to the runway, and you cannot block an enemy runway with your plane or tank.. along with those, intentional teamkilling & bombing of your own hangars or carrier is against the rules.

That's it.

There is NO rule against spawnkilling with your plane & camping isn't even an issue unless it's accompanied by spawnkilling.. which since there isn't a rule against spawnkilling, camping is a moot issue.

Zup just recently posted the following on Blue Fighter's thread i.e. "Zuperman, clarify please"

Unfortunately it's not an easy to find post.

zuperman wrote: I don't think we need to write the rules every 6 months. The idea is very simple: anything that could ruin the game for you or other players if repeated constantly is not allowed.
There is no need to repeat it for every single specific case that may arise: now you can tank on this corner of the map, is it allowed to spawn kill? Now you can jump with one leg on a building, is it allowed to spawn kill there?

To me is pretty obvious, we already said no spawn killing.

Do we really need to spell out a rule book when you know you are ruining the game for all the other team? If you know it is ruining the game, you know it is wrong. Trying to excuse it with: where are the rules? It's like pissing on the kitchen of a bar and say that there is no sign saying it's forbidden.

Doggy Dix wrote: Well first we should consider what is the correct definition of camping.

How wide is the circle around the base/carrier, that makes as you could say someone is camping?[/quote
]
I agree with what ur saying cause multiple times I finish bombing enemy hangar and when I try to go beck to base its ver rare for them to let u go without bullets in ur rear, so if u start fighting back they call it camping and if u keep avoiding, they have like 240 bullets at least and 6 of them are bound to hit

i know nine buddy i turn round and head for home after i bomb sumtimes ill pick the plane off as he takes off (not spawned i let him up)but if hes gonna shoot me on my retreat i have hno choice but defend myself

I do admit, I don't think I know everything ? Most & a lot of what I share I learn through observation.. sumthing we all can afford ?

Hey hear a quick scenario.. say for instance I'm packing with two bombs fighting may way through enemy air field. I get above their base & get shot down right above their hangers, but not before I can take 1 out ? I parachute in time to land next to their (Enemy) hangers. At this time what I were praying for happened ? yes I exclaim ! I were giving the chance to choose Tank or Air plane ? I want to say I chose Airplane, but no I chose Tank. Thinking faster then ur monthly data plan I hopped in my tank knowing that I'm not fixing to... a.)Take out their planes upon respawn because that would be classified as tank spawn killing. Other wise known as spawn killing with a tank.... b.)ahhh let me think faster..wait, there is no b.) so with that being said I commenced to desolate their hangers.. for the Win ?
I dunno.. but logically, no team killing/destruction were done & no spawn killing were done so it seems lke fair play to me ? but this is a scenario from a 1rst to destroy the enemy Airfield Wins.


Just sayn doe buds ?

We could debate semantics all day long. At the end of the day Zup is the only one who can set the rules and enforce them. With him working hard on Dogfight 2 I hardly think he will bother with it at all, but if he does It most likely wont be seen until Dogfight 2 comes out.

From his previous posts it seems like he does not like the idea of putting a ton of rules in the game because if he did, every ten seconds he would have to be enforcing said rules. I for one would hate it if my day consisted of punishing players in a game and nothing more

All I would ask is that while developing Dogfight 2, perhaps he could find a place on the home screen that would act as a Code Of Conduct post that just makes his statements about fairplay viewable to everyone who plays the game and not just the few players who frequent the forum.

A mute button would be nice sometimes, or even the ability to VOTE a player out of a game because they are ruining it for everyone else. Maybe a majority vote and the abusive player would be kicked from the game?

There will always be players out there who will Exploit EVERY glitch, Ruin Games, Insult other players and so on, just for their own personal enjoyment. Just gang up and show em some extra love

That was a different issue, Hero. That was taking advantage of a glitch.

[NLR] McFate wrote: That was a different issue, Hero. That was taking advantage of a glitch.

Gud answer Mcfate, where were u when I needed u ?! @ least I were a nice man & didn't take advantage to attack innocents/civilians lke sum do in the Bomb Airplane Carrier missions when they appear invisible on ship spawning & shooting everything visible ? & that is another gud point, I didn't spawn kill nor were I invisible, I could have been easily taken out ? But if anybody knows Heroicz, not to tut my own horn, but lke sum of u are or may be.. I'm not to be token lightly when I'm in tank ? I can & have been known to take out a single game by laying everything flat for the win.. while driving that little bitty simple thing that u all call a TANK !?


From a previous game..