this is just a game....

McFate wrote: It's funny how people often think there is no strategy in a dogfight. Lol!

Someone should be sure to tell that to the military flight instructors who focus so much attention on air to air combat maneuvers. If you think that two identical planes should have the exact same turn radius in a turn fight regardless of the maneuvers and skill of the pilot you either have not discovered how gravity effects your movement or perhaps you're just not very bright. Sorry for the cheap dig there but really, WAKE UP AND FLY RIGHT!

(edit: skydavis, while I appreciate your skill and gaming experience my personal experience shows that a plane can turn faster by making use of gravity in this game, albeit those effects may mainly be due to the effects of speed)

Yes I do realize that lol. Its just an extremely short lived advantage and as soon as you come up out of the dive and climb then your foe gets the diving advantage. That is if your in a vertical turn. If you enemy is in a horizontal and you go vertical to dive and get that extra speed you better hope he keeps going horizontaly so you can come up on him on the other side. The turning speed in this game is all dependent on your speed and it is relatively constant when on fill throttle. The planes turn so fast that diving in a turn does not last long barley giving you any advantage if not anything worth while sadly.

The game's gravity is worth little.. BUT sometimes that little bit is the difference between living and dying!

ZebraUp wrote: The game's gravity is worth little.. BUT sometimes that little bit is the difference between living and dying!

Thanks zeb, I was just about to post that. That little bit mixed with varying levels of skill makes a lot of difference.

Think of the analogy of parcour. Some people have a natural talent for that sort of thing, then when they focus on developing particular skills they can do some incredible stuff. They live in the same environment as everyone else but somehow they can access it more readily, more fluidly.

This is why we all don't live in white houses and drive white cars becouse people's have different opinions and that's ok by all means!! I enjoy turn fighters as much as the head on deadly pilots!! If we all played the same way the game would be boring!! Different styles brings fun to the game!! Besides who thinks that we're all gonna agree on the same thing!?!? Lol be real!! Enjoy the game how it is who cares if it is head on or turn fighting??

G.I Gunnerzz wrote:

£ | Ziza | wrote:

G.I Gunnerzz wrote: Personally bombing mission is full of tactics and strategy! ! Dogfights are about circles and I just don't think there's much strategy there for me it's more about who can cut the fastest smallest circles..so that would fall back on what devise you use!! I play df but enjoy bombing missions the best!! But to each his own !!!

My god gunnerzz, don't say that, that's why some pilots are so easy to shoot down. Dogfight its a big deal, you must learn about many things. My god , I can shoot down a top plane whit an airco because many pilots things that " it's only make circus "

There are so many manouvers. I really don't know why you say that, serch in Google. I say this in the best way, I respect you man

lol ziza my brother!! Only my opinion I like df and bombing but somewhere in this thread stradgey and tactics was mentioned lol!! Df has less strategy and tactics in MY opinion lol!! Its a deathmatch lol!! And you are 1 on the few pilots who play bombing missions who actually carry your bomb so I too respect you ziza!!

I don't Carrie the bomb if I don't need that .

But you're right, there is so many ways to play this game. But, in my opinion, if someone gonna play a game of air combat and use air combat tactics , I don't know why the bizarre and " not honorable " it's he and not the players who use styles that doesn't exist. I can understand that the game can be played whit so many styles, but, sometimes , the forum it's only for make reputation or destroy reputations without bases that " they play like air combat games " or " they don't use our style " that's the big problem.

Come on people.
this game is a game of head to head.
End of story.

Maybe instead this game should be called "FlyStraight" (or else!)

£ | Ziza | wrote: Then, the problem it's not about what it's air combat or " tactics" ? All it's about devices ?

I just must say, for instance, the dogfight its about team up. Yours arms and screen can't be a problem if we fight like a team

I can honestly say I have never seen random players ever work as a team in dogfight missions. As for my arms I'm getting kinda old so yeah...they start to get uncomfortable in turn fighting. I would rather shoot the enemy as far away as possible so I can somewhat keep them a certain distance away from each other. Dogfight missions just lack any sort of challenge, shoot 15 planes...done...hit play again and knock another 15 down.


Bombing missions have a better objective, and the game won't stop after only one person gets the fifteen kill limit. Everyone will be more willing to work as a team in a bombing mission without even asking them. In a dogfight mission you have to watch your back because everyone is red. Besides I still get in turn fighting in bombing missions and I get double the time of game play and a lot more points. After all, the only thing to achieve after lvl 31 is points. Maybe Davy and wig will tell us what sort of cool new MORAF option you unlock after 10,000,000 points. Until then I'm going to be hunting for points

[*M]bhfoust wrote: I can honestly say I have never seen random players ever work as a team in dogfight missions.....

I've been doing an "adopt a noob" program in dogfights sometimes lately.

When I see a noob getting trashed by higher ranks I'll get in his 6 and help him out. It gives me a chance to see his moves too so sometimes I give random pointers.


I love a good dogfight but I admit that it's been getting harder to stay focused in one. Unless there are some other good turn fighters in the game usually end up baiting people into chasing me at the bridge or by playing "tag" by evading until I take a hit before engaging.

McFate wrote:

[*M]bhfoust wrote: I can honestly say I have never seen random players ever work as a team in dogfight missions.....

I've been doing an "adopt a noob" program in dogfights sometimes lately.

When I see a noob getting trashed by higher ranks I'll get in his 6 and help him out. It gives me a chance to see his moves too so sometimes I give random pointers.


I love a good dogfight but I admit that it's been getting harder to stay focused in one. Unless there are some other good turn fighters in the game usually end up baiting people into chasing me at the bridge or by playing "tag" by evading until I take a hit before engaging.

I do the same when the opportunity presents itself. Bombing missions you get more time to work with them and it's less frustrating.

[*M]bhfoust wrote:

£ | Ziza | wrote: Then, the problem it's not about what it's air combat or " tactics" ? All it's about devices ?

I just must say, for instance, the dogfight its about team up. Yours arms and screen can't be a problem if we fight like a team

I can honestly say I have never seen random players ever work as a team in dogfight missions. As for my arms I'm getting kinda old so yeah...they start to get uncomfortable in turn fighting. I would rather shoot the enemy as far away as possible so I can somewhat keep them a certain distance away from each other. Dogfight missions just lack any sort of challenge, shoot 15 planes...done...hit play again and knock another 15 down.


Bombing missions have a better objective, and the game won't stop after only one person gets the fifteen kill limit. Everyone will be more willing to work as a team in a bombing mission without even asking them. In a dogfight mission you have to watch your back because everyone is red. Besides I still get in turn fighting in bombing missions and I get double the time of game play and a lot more points. After all, the only thing to achieve after lvl 31 is points. Maybe Davy and wig will tell us what sort of cool new MORAF option you unlock after 10,000,000 points. Until then I'm going to be hunting for points

Well, im talking about styles, no about missions. Bombing mission must have patrols, hunters, head on, dogfights, serch and kill, formations ( even doing my twisters, a good formation of shooters can shootme like a mosquito ) tactic7 vs tactic4 or make another. Bombing missions must have all the missions in one. But no, if you take a flank they call you sneaker, if you drop, they call you a dropper. The first we must do its take all this names and burn it.

And, if some one its not a fighter ( because his arms, or devices etc ) must understand that he need a scort vs others fighters, and the fighter need a shooter whit a bomb, and the bombers need a route and a stealth. This is my point. Sorry my English

Actually, I think the dogfight board is mostly boring. It's too big and too many spawn points. You spend most your time looking for someone to fight, then when you find them, they leave. My favorite is when they leave after you hit them once so you don't get the kill. It would be great with a smaller map, less spawn points and triple the amount of planes. I also heard someone with a good idea, decrease the range of the bullets then there would be less jousting and more turn fighting.

Good debatable topic Joe.

Before starting, I want to tell all new or junior pilots that we all have gone through same phase of getting more deaths than kills when we started playing this game. With time and better planes we improved our skills and can now take any challenge. So have patience and day is not far enough when today's noobs will take down today’s top players in future.

What I think is that we should respect the way one plays. Someone is comfortable in turn-fight other like head on. Everyone has the right to use his/her best skills and prefer which type of game they want to play DF, BTH, BTC or CTC.

Sneaking, dropping, tactics make the game more challenging and when you win such challenging game the level of satisfaction is much higher and also it improves your skills even if you lose as you come to know what’s their style of playing and you can prepare yourself accordingly to counter them.

I heard many pilots complaining about dropping or sneaking. So what, you can also drop or sneak. If one is challenging you in the game by dropping and sneaking, go after that pilot. Don’t expect too much from yourself because too much expectation will mostly end up in frustration. Frustration brings in anger and then we say something which we are not supposed to say.

If it’s not your style and you are worried about your KDR you have three options to choose from instead of complaining:

1) leave the game and join another server you are comfortable in.
2) Join the REDS and get the win and kills you are looking for.
3) Play like a fighter and give your best and earn respect.

Friends, you’ll agree with me that complaining will never end the game. The game will continue till one side win. So why to make remarks which hurts other. If another sneak or drop he/she will continue to sneak or drop. Good players always counter such sneaking and dropping and earn respect and one who is not confident of tackling them will complain.

I read one of the post of McFate and the gist of that post is:
“This is game only not war. Play, enjoy and make friends for life. Don’t get personal. At the most you can lose that game nothing else”

Have a wonderful day and play your style.

Hi Friends,

Dropping should not be an offense in this game.
Dropping increase the speed and manoeuvrability of the plane, but we do not play all with same planes, by choice/challenge or because we do not own the top planes.
Since Rookie Day I have only piloted the E3 and the Airco (with a desesperate average k/d ratio of 1.... ) : so when flying to the bombing target, if i miss my opponent in a Head combat and i am now involved in a Turnfight, i will leave my bomb, if not i have not only a chance to survive without an escort/or team strategy to protect bombers !

I think this would be the case in a real combat.

I know i am not a very good pilot but may be practicing the rookie planes i will get some new skills that will allows me to keep my bomb in the future, but for the moment, hum hum, it's peanuts..

I drop as well when i have to intercept a high/or far side ""sneaker"" that i cannot reach with a minimum of speed add.

Good thread, lots of different viewpoints. Let's ground a hypothetical in reality. Take a good turnfighter like Zadaco. When we are matched in a dogfight we might spin around for 20 minutes chasing each other to get glimpses of the other's rudder and try and time shots to hit them. I spent an hour in a dogfight with Zadaco one night, hit her once in an approach, once when she turned for a split second to look at another red pipper, and I got nailed once looking at an another pilot and once trying a stall spin. 2 kills in an hour. If every dogfight I entered had all star casts with even equipment I would play them all, but the scenarios are usually more like this:

1) 80% noobs that spawn in, get creamed, spawn out to be replaced by more noobs, and a couple more experienced players. The noob slaughter commences, and its a race to 15. If I try and dogfight the experienced guys, the noobs shower me with lead from all over the field rather than letting us have it out and then appraoch the winner. Half the time I get hit by the experienced guys it's because I got caught looking at one of the four or five noobs trying to horn in on my chase. Once I had a respected "older" player crash instead of fighting me. I called him out on it and he said why spend time circling with me when there were so many juicy targets to send down in flames for the big points.

2) Spawn in with a couple of good players and one or mmore of them has a mechanical advantage (device or access), and I have to spend a half an hour twisting and rolling and going through all the tricks to hopefully get a kill here and there. That's fun for a while, but can be a long investment of time for little points or return, other than a self delivered pat on the back.

I've proved that if you have equal planes and are on the same device and just follow the pipper you will NEVER get shot down or shoot down another pilot until one of you does something other than follow the pipper at top speed. There are not enough variables to evenly matched aircarft in the game (gravity, wind sheer, slipping, etc.) to produce any manuever that will lend an advantage and present a target. I've spun and circled with the best for interminable periods of time, and unless one of us looks away for a split secnd, or tries something to bleed off speed, or runs nto something, it will never end. Usually one pilot is frustrated into doing something that makes them a target.

Of course this is historically innacurate; two SPADS from the same squadron with sequential serial numbers from the factory would have different top speeds based on the immense variables that don't exist in the game. A bomb weighs x pounds, but in the game costs a defined loss of airspeed. But every aircraft's weight by pilot, fuel, ammo, patches, etc. are all the same in the game for each level, allied and central powers. It's game play.

I find the bar fight of the valley of death to be way more enjoyable, but again, that's me.

Longrifle wrote: There are not enough variables to evenly matched aircarft in the game (gravity, wind sheer, slipping, etc.) to produce any manuever that will lend an advantage and present a target

So true. The planes must have more variable, like resistance, climbing speed, and weight.

AND ONE THING VERY IMPORTANT, we have no all the controls. We have the elevators, the flaps, but we don't have the Timon ( I don't know say that in English ) I'm not saying this must be a 100% simulator, but even head on whit the timon gonna be another thing

£ | Ziza | wrote:

Longrifle wrote: There are not enough variables to evenly matched aircarft in the game (gravity, wind sheer, slipping, etc.) to produce any manuever that will lend an advantage and present a target

So true. The planes must have more variable, like resistance, climbing speed, and weight.

AND ONE THING VERY IMPORTANT, we have no all the controls. We have the elevators, the flaps, but we don't have the Timon ( I don't know say that in English ) I'm not saying this must be a 100% simulator, but even head on whit the timon gonna be another thing

rudder..

I don't much like dogfight matches because I can't shoot anyone down, nearly every pilot above Level 8 is more skilled than I am, and I'm an easy target. Nothing more depressing and frustrating than a dogfight match.

The only thing I enjoy doing is bombing hangars, so only 1 in 4 games will be to my liking. And in most of those, the server either slants the red team against the blues, or the reds have enough skilled pilots to negate anything I'm capable of doing in the game. I've often given up firing at the other team because I can't see their planes and it's just a waste of time. Or I shoot my own teammates because I can't distinguish them from the enemy, so all too often I get negative points in a game.

Carrier games are too long and boring. And zep games are too short and boring.

Lol I felt the need to stay in a df mission after this thread. After 40 minutes I have come to the conclusion it is boring.
1 crash 1 death 15 kills today was a bad day.

If everbody left, obviously it's boring

People kept joining and leaving.as you can see only 6 kills are accounted for.At best there was 5 playin.There were a few cowards who saw the light and ran.As soon as you start dominating the weak run away.So i will leave the DF missions for the noobs and the weak now.They can enjoy tank spawn killing each other as much as they want.

I'm not well-versed in WWI aircraft... did those early planes have flaps, rudder, elevator, aileron, and gear controls? Yes, I understand there are limitations to controls on a touch-screen based game, but having a higher degree of control in your flight would make turn fighting so much better.

I've played other computer based dogfight-like games, and with additional keyboard controls available, these games had some pretty advanced dogfight tactics. You truly had to know the mechanics and physics behind your plane to maneuver it to its full potential, and take account of the environment around you.

Our simple mobile-based game will not give us that much options. There's only so much you can do on a mobile platform, which is why we're seeing so much limitation. Doesn't mean there's no room for improvement, however. We will have to take the best from what we've got and remember what we love about this game.

All single prop planes need a rudder for take off alone nevermind its influence in turning.Without rudder the gyroscopic force would send it off the runway to the right. i dunno if they used flaps until later.

Luna wrote: I'm not well-versed in WWI aircraft... did those early planes have flaps, rudder, elevator, aileron, and gear controls? Yes, I understand there are limitations to controls on a touch-screen based game, but having a higher degree of control in your flight would make turn fighting so much better.

I've played other computer based dogfight-like games, and with additional keyboard controls available, these games had some pretty advanced dogfight tactics. You truly had to know the mechanics and physics behind your plane to maneuver it to its full potential, and take account of the environment around you.

Our simple mobile-based game will not give us that much options. There's only so much you can do on a mobile platform, which is why we're seeing so much limitation. Doesn't mean there's no room for improvement, however. We will have to take the best from what we've got and remember what we love about this game.

Some of the later WWI aircraft control elements bear strong resemblence to modern planes, less the flaps, hydraulics and anything retractable on the wing to increase surface area on the wings.

I hate mentioning competitors, but there is a similar game with much more realistic aircraft, and more of them, and the rudder solution to a handheld device is a small virtual joystick, which the user can position where they want, and it adds rudder controls and elevator controls while tilting controls ailerons. That game is so realist it is hard to imagine how top planes ever scored against other top planes, and easy to see why the aces liked to shoot down recon aircraft. It also overheats guns and has limited range. If it had chat, a board like this, and a community, you would never see me here, but I get tired of faceless opponents using the same eight pre-programmed messages (LOL, etc.).

Head on or Turn ? Well neither, at least the German Air Corps seemed to think so by 1918.
In the books I read they mostly attacked typically in only 3 circumstances:

1/ HEIGHT: dive, shoot, zoom, run. Ideally from the sun. Hun in the Sun.
Esp on a sunny morning on the Western Front.

2/ NUMBERS: flying circus anyone ?

3/ VULNERABLE PREY: slow 2 seat spotters, eg RE8 flying coffin were favoured targets.


Head on and turn fights only if absolutely unavoidable.

Also finally on ALTITUDE !Back to DF...
I was once accused of 'sneaking' for going in high. WW1 aces did this all the time if they could.
DF aces however, I notice go in low and direct.. and good on them for backing their skills.

Longrifle wrote:

Luna wrote: I'm not well-versed in WWI aircraft... did those early planes have flaps, rudder, elevator, aileron, and gear controls? Yes, I understand there are limitations to controls on a touch-screen based game, but having a higher degree of control in your flight would make turn fighting so much better.

I've played other computer based dogfight-like games, and with additional keyboard controls available, these games had some pretty advanced dogfight tactics. You truly had to know the mechanics and physics behind your plane to maneuver it to its full potential, and take account of the environment around you.

Our simple mobile-based game will not give us that much options. There's only so much you can do on a mobile platform, which is why we're seeing so much limitation. Doesn't mean there's no room for improvement, however. We will have to take the best from what we've got and remember what we love about this game.

Some of the later WWI aircraft control elements bear strong resemblence to modern planes, less the flaps, hydraulics and anything retractable on the wing to increase surface area on the wings.

I hate mentioning competitors, but there is a similar game with much more realistic aircraft, and more of them, and the rudder solution to a handheld device is a small virtual joystick, which the user can position where they want, and it adds rudder controls and elevator controls while tilting controls ailerons. That game is so realist it is hard to imagine how top planes ever scored against other top planes, and easy to see why the aces liked to shoot down recon aircraft. It also overheats guns and has limited range. If it had chat, a board like this, and a community, you would never see me here, but I get tired of faceless opponents using the same eight pre-programmed messages (LOL, etc.).

Long rifle you need to come try out Gunship III. Its extremely realistic. You can’t control your flaps much unless your on the Mac version of it but dropping your landing gear lowers the flaps giving you a tighter turn radius and pulling the throttle down to 10% tosses the air breaks on. The dogfights can be interesting and very quite difficult. I have seen people dogfighting and both pushing their planes to their limits so much to out maneuver the other guy that stye both stalled lost control of their aircraft and got a mouth full of dirt.

Skydavis1 wrote:

Longrifle wrote:

Luna wrote: I'm not well-versed in WWI aircraft... did those early planes have flaps, rudder, elevator, aileron, and gear controls? Yes, I understand there are limitations to controls on a touch-screen based game, but having a higher degree of control in your flight would make turn fighting so much better.

I've played other computer based dogfight-like games, and with additional keyboard controls available, these games had some pretty advanced dogfight tactics. You truly had to know the mechanics and physics behind your plane to maneuver it to its full potential, and take account of the environment around you.

Our simple mobile-based game will not give us that much options. There's only so much you can do on a mobile platform, which is why we're seeing so much limitation. Doesn't mean there's no room for improvement, however. We will have to take the best from what we've got and remember what we love about this game.

Some of the later WWI aircraft control elements bear strong resemblence to modern planes, less the flaps, hydraulics and anything retractable on the wing to increase surface area on the wings.

I hate mentioning competitors, but there is a similar game with much more realistic aircraft, and more of them, and the rudder solution to a handheld device is a small virtual joystick, which the user can position where they want, and it adds rudder controls and elevator controls while tilting controls ailerons. That game is so realist it is hard to imagine how top planes ever scored against other top planes, and easy to see why the aces liked to shoot down recon aircraft. It also overheats guns and has limited range. If it had chat, a board like this, and a community, you would never see me here, but I get tired of faceless opponents using the same eight pre-programmed messages (LOL, etc.).

Long rifle you need to come try out Gunship III. Its extremely realistic. You can’t control your flaps much unless your on the Mac version of it but dropping your landing gear lowers the flaps giving you a tighter turn radius and pulling the throttle down to 10% tosses the air breaks on. The dogfights can be interesting and very quite difficult. I have seen people dogfighting and both pushing their planes to their limits so much to out maneuver the other guy that stye both stalled lost control of their aircraft and got a mouth full of dirt.

If I pick up any more video game habits I'll have to change my name to "Lone" Rifle, and prepare for a long and bitter divorce. I play Sky Gamblers R.O.G. occasionally, but gave up the other stuff.

Longrifle wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote:

Longrifle wrote:

Luna wrote: I'm not well-versed in WWI aircraft... did those early planes have flaps, rudder, elevator, aileron, and gear controls? Yes, I understand there are limitations to controls on a touch-screen based game, but having a higher degree of control in your flight would make turn fighting so much better.

I've played other computer based dogfight-like games, and with additional keyboard controls available, these games had some pretty advanced dogfight tactics. You truly had to know the mechanics and physics behind your plane to maneuver it to its full potential, and take account of the environment around you.

Our simple mobile-based game will not give us that much options. There's only so much you can do on a mobile platform, which is why we're seeing so much limitation. Doesn't mean there's no room for improvement, however. We will have to take the best from what we've got and remember what we love about this game.

Some of the later WWI aircraft control elements bear strong resemblence to modern planes, less the flaps, hydraulics and anything retractable on the wing to increase surface area on the wings.

I hate mentioning competitors, but there is a similar game with much more realistic aircraft, and more of them, and the rudder solution to a handheld device is a small virtual joystick, which the user can position where they want, and it adds rudder controls and elevator controls while tilting controls ailerons. That game is so realist it is hard to imagine how top planes ever scored against other top planes, and easy to see why the aces liked to shoot down recon aircraft. It also overheats guns and has limited range. If it had chat, a board like this, and a community, you would never see me here, but I get tired of faceless opponents using the same eight pre-programmed messages (LOL, etc.).

Long rifle you need to come try out Gunship III. Its extremely realistic. You can’t control your flaps much unless your on the Mac version of it but dropping your landing gear lowers the flaps giving you a tighter turn radius and pulling the throttle down to 10% tosses the air breaks on. The dogfights can be interesting and very quite difficult. I have seen people dogfighting and both pushing their planes to their limits so much to out maneuver the other guy that stye both stalled lost control of their aircraft and got a mouth full of dirt.

If I pick up any more video game habits I'll have to change my name to "Lone" Rifle, and prepare for a long and bitter divorce. I play Sky Gamblers R.O.G. occasionally, but gave up the other stuff.

I use to play combat flight simulator online, I dedicate many hours of practice for be the 2 best national pilot ( in Mexico ) a good game takes many hours of our lives

I'm making Coffee? with hazel..milk & a tbls of SuGar?