Hi there,

I always go through this internal debate. I can make the game very realistic or completely unrealistic. I usually go something in between because most wouldn't be able to fly or enjoy the game if it was fully realistic. To give you a bit of background, the first version of Dogfight was very realistic. It had all the physics and aerodynamics formulas you could imagine. What happened? I've got tons of bad reviews saying that "the game was unrealistic and impossible to fly". Ironically, most flight games players are used to unrealistic simulation so they thought Dogfight was wrong when it was pretty accurate to the real thing.

So I made it something in between and most liked the way it was. That's the Dogfight you know today.

Fast forward to today's new planes. The Fokker D.VIII for instance. During WWI in reality, when a new plane with new technology came out, it basically wiped out the other side until they came out with something better. Allied forces were completely destroyed when some opposite planes came out. This is real.

But... in Dogfight it may be boring as hell. I already began seeing complains that whoever gets a D.VIII is fast, slick and almost impossible to hit. That's exactly how the airplane was. But it doesn't make for much fun in a multiplayer game right?

So here I pose the question. Should I downgrade somehow the Fokker D8? For instance I can make it bigger so it's not that hard to hit. Other suggestions are welcome.

Zip if you was to make the D8 bigger then what not the E3? That plane has been hard to hit since I started this game over two years ago. While your at it make the rest bigger as well. All of these planes have shrink do to better clarity and resolution on all these new devices.My personal thought is leave them as they may or make them all just a bit bigger.

And thank you Zip for all the hard work you put in to this great game.

Noooo I think they are great the way they are your the man

Do what you have to Zup.

For me, if you want to cater to a large crowd, go with a balanced gameplay. Unfortunately, if we go realistic, you will definitely narrow down the crowd to die-hard simulator players.

There's a different game to cater to the "die-hard" crowd who wants full-on WWI air combat realism and it's Rise of Flight. No need to make Dogfight go out of its niche as an accessible game that both the die-hard and casual crowds can enjoy.

Maybe add rudder controls and the stall effect of losing airspeed so that players have other maneuvering options. There's a whole slew of other maneuvers and tactics out there that can result to a more entertaining gameplay should they be included in the next update.

Just my two cents on the matter.

I think the ability to use bluetooth controllers on android would help lots, as far as i know only players on laptops use 360 controllers, which i believe is a little unfair. I havent played against the new planes enough to make a judgement on how hard they are to hit. Thanks Zup

I haven't flown with it yet, but I don't see a problem with it. We will all learn to compensate I'm sure.

Joaquin, you've created something special here in the game and this community - it's a lot of fun as a game should be, and it's level of realism appeals to a really wide range of player types just the way it is. To change that would turn it in to something else.
Trust your ol' buddy Pork and keep your current "formula" - it really is remarkable.

Thanks for everything

EDIT: Making the D8 larger might be nice though

I agree with Pork... The game is great the way it is. Thanks Zup

[e]hammer_tool wrote: I haven't flown with it yet, but I don't see a problem with it. We will all learn to compensate I'm sure.

trust me, u dont want to fight against a swarm of D8s. I is impossible to hit, but when ur fighting 3 of them, all with moraf pilots, its a lost cause. U can shoot the down from behind rather easily, but in order to get passed them to do that u have to drop ur bomb. I had no shame dropping to be honest. 5 on 3 and 3 of those 5 where in the unhittable Razor. I like the concept, but I think its just a tad to hard to shoot. The E3 is an ok plane to take down if the pilot doesnt know what he is doing. But being in an elite plane with the ability of mastering the head on. It would be impossible. That plane will make a lot of aces out of it. Its a nice looking plane, not saying its not. I just had a bad day yesterday, then i come to the game for some fun, just to find out ingame that I couldnt hit those planes even if I tried. I shot them down maybe 3 times and died around 20ish. The kills I got where from me being bombless. And those d8s are fast as crap, even with a bomb, they could turn with my Tripe that was bombless. That was astounding, made me worry what it tould be like to fight one without a bomb.

I am with Robert33. Rudder control would be nice!

My suggestion is: give us some time to feel it.

But ont thing I am going to tell you: on this game, SIZE MATTERS!

I am playing on my second account (begun from scratch, no cash yet, after making moraf on my first account).
So I am playing most of time on german side, because of that unbelievably fun tier 1 german plane!
It is slow, has no ammo, but has good maneuverability and it is TINY, very hard to hit!!! My kill/death ratio is about 3/1 - and its not because of my skills, cuz I lack skills; its mostly because the fact that my plane is hard to hit. Of course, I avoid chasings at all costs, for I am an easy prey for turners... So, pay some attention on the size of the planes, for game-balancing sake.

But don't do radical moves, because there are always the design-factor to keep. For example, you can not ignore the fatc that the german top plane is monoplane, while the top allied is biplane (and because of this, the allied is an "easier" target).

Given the fact that YOU asked and posted the OP, be assured that this thread will be full of opinions in no time, you know us... Then, don't rush.

But just to give my opinion, what prevent this game from being the best game ever are "those paper-weight-side-rolling-turtle-prone" tanks.

But it is the best mobile game ever, despite its minor flaws. You can not imagine the addiction you created, believe me.

Lol, man im the one that started the rudder control debate, but was shut down by alot of high names, so it was ignored I think alittle arcade like slider at the bottom of the screen would work beautifully. Just my opinion though.

NOOOO! PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE THE D8 PLEASE! THE D8 IS A GREAT PLANE TO BE MATCHED UP AGAINST! IT REALLY TAKES CONCENTRATION AND SKILL! IF PEOPLE ARE TO LAZY TO CHASE IT DOWN THEN THATS THEIR OWN PROBLEM ! IVE FLOWN AGAINST ONLY 3 D8'S BUT WHEN I DID OT MADE THE GAME EVEN MORE EXCITING ! I LOVE THE OPPOSING PLANES! IN A DOGFIGHT I USE MY DV THATS ONLY HAS 3-3-4 UPGRADES AND I STILL HAVE THE COURAGE TO FLY AGAINST THOSE MONSTERS! ITS EXCITING ! AND IT MAKES ANY PILOT USE THEIR BRAIN AND NOT THE SAME OLE BORING DOGFIGHT BATTLES BUT MAKES YOU FLY LIKE YOU HAVENT FLOWN BEFORE! PLEASE DONT CHANGE ANYTHING!

First - do what you need to improve the game.

Second - probably not enough game time to understand the impact of the new planes just yet.

Third - having just dropped over 2 million in coins to purchase and upgrade the D8, if you do make a change, I would like the option to reallocate my purchases if you do make a change.

Lastly - Realism changes are great but I would focus on the soldiers. Suggestions:

• Rate of fire is too high.
• Chutes/soldiers should be destroyed by shooting the chute.
• Soldiers on the ground should be strafed more easily.
• Soldiers should require more hits on a plane to take it down (don't even get me started on soldiers killing tanks).

Bottom line - the soldier has become one of the best weapons in the game. We all have to juke like crazy after taking down a plane so we don't get the soldier's return fire. Realism!?! Blah!

dogfight is one of the best games i've ever played. it's beautiful. it's fun to be actively playing a game that is actively being developed. i've enjoyed all the new updates i've received so far. some things are wacky, and other things just don't make sense sometimes. but who doesn't like trees that grow suspended in the air?

the new german plane is very difficult to fight against. the e3 is usually piloted by newer players so it isn't quite as ultimate as the d8 seems to be. i had some luck against them while i was in the chute, but head on against someone who knows what they are doing is a dicey undertaking.

as the game is still being developed, the idea of the arms race is a fun one. there will always be a newer, faster and more deadly plane to save up for. but the majority of the players i play with on a regular basis didn't download the game for its historical setting. i did, but i'm very interested in world war one.

my vote would be to downgrade the speed of the d8 by one blip. 4 new planes came out, and only one of them is a 5 star speeder. i think the body of the d8 is actually easier to hit than the e3 is. the fuselage being suspended from the single wing gives it a flying egg look.

My opinion...i like realistic....always have. I think its more of a challenge. But I also think for those who have never been in the air, the way it is now is fine. I think obtaining the new planes should be a goal for which one must work and/or purchase. So, no I would not down grade the planes.

I'd love to see the planes on both side have same stats at each tier. There will always be "the best" plane in every group other wise. The Spad is now weaker then the tier 3 German for example, 4 maneuver trumps 4 speed easy. So that's an easy choice to pick. Also I noticed the German Albatross Dv is better then the tier 4 Nieuport, D.VIII is better then the Camel is that intended? Darn them pesky skilled German engineers lol.
Unless stats are equal on both sides people will just stick with the better of the two at any tier. I might be in the minority here but I'd be happy to see all tier 5 with the same stats as well to add verity in planes flying rather then everyone picking the best of the tier 5s and the others going largely unused.

Before mid tier planes with 3/3/3 bars could compete with the top planes. The top planes had the advantage of one more speed bar that will also help in maneuvering. A notable advantage but not game dominating. With speed and maneuvering able to reach 5 now that's scary. I fear the balance between those with cash and those without will become too big.

Regardless of what ever you do Zuperman I have great respect for all you've done! The countless hours of fun you've brought me is amassing

If it's going to be kept unrealistic there should at least be directly corresponding planes on each side. The Camel's speed, firepower or resistance to damage should be better than that of the D.VIII to offset the difficulty in hitting the Fokker. Having one side's top plane exceed the stats of every other plane in the game doesn't make sense. There's a WWII carrier, on a lake, in a game about a war that had no carriers to speak of. Realism is not at stake here.

What happened to the "free" D.VIII for participating in that 100k Downloads drive? I'm being prompted to buy it, it should already be in my hangar. To my knowledge I never got the coin bonus, either.

Wigbomb wrote: If it's going to be kept unrealistic there should at least be directly corresponding planes on each side. The Camel's speed, firepower or resistance to damage should be better than that of the D.VIII to offset the difficulty in hitting the Fokker. Having one side's top plane exceed the stats of every other plane in the game doesn't make sense. There's a WWII carrier, on a lake, in a game about a war that had no carriers to speak of. Realism is not at stake here.

What happened to the "free" D.VIII for participating in that 100k Downloads drive? I'm being prompted to buy it, it should already be in my hangar. To my knowledge I never got the coin bonus, either.

I got the plane too, but haven't received it. I did get the coins though, the very next day... Zup said he's going to give a couple days for the stats to process on the servers as well, we'll get the planes then.

P.s. You're Wig, by the way. Do you not have enough coins for ALL the planes?

A few thoughts:

Playing last night I kept getting into games with lots of Germans and few allieds. Are people preferring the German planes now? I think so. There has often been an issue of people not sticking around in a defend-the-zep game because they want to switch so they can earn more points by shooting it down. I think we will see many cases of people refusing to play as the allies now.

These new faster planes were all produced later in the war. 1917ish . Most of the lower tier planes were from earlier in the war. Why not create servers which are pre-1917 with none of the top tiers and then a 1917-1918 server with all planes. This would give the newer players, and those who don't have the coins yet and can't afford the $100 or so to get a fully upgraded top tier plane a fighting chance to be competitive. The debate over highly skilled players "abusing" and driving away new players will probably grow in the current situation. If there are two servers the high ranks can have their fun in the high performance planes but they will only be flying against those who choose the greater challenge. People will still want to purchase the high tier planes so they can play and be competitive in the "big boy" server but they will still able to fly in a more level field as they hone their skills.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NOW CAN YOU SEE, GUYS, WHY FACE TO FACE ITS NOT ALL? You must shoot the D8 when he makes a turn, when he is a big target. And one more thing, in my upgrade, the SA5 have 5 of speed, like the D8 , that's will be the answer. And the camel have 4 of speed and 5 of manuver. Then, pic a plane it's not easy, now you must depen of yours skills and not of the plane.

FOR ME, ALL ITS OK , AND I LOVE MY CAMEL AND BE CAREFUL GERMANS, A D8 KILLER HAS BEN BORN

Zup, lo que yo te recomendaría sería hacer un poco más barato el camel, así , por tendencia, los jugadores comprenderán que su desventaja es un reto a cambio de un acceso sencillo al avión.

I am astonished now, by knowing that planes at the same tier DOESN'T HAVE THE SAME STATS!!!!


Where is the balance?!?!?!?!?!

The simple fact that one plane is monoplane and another is biplane is ALREADY TOO MUCH OF INBALANCE, and you guys tell me that there are OTHER inbalances, like speed and maneuverability?!?! (I am at work, so can't check it out)...

If it is true, Zup, in my humble opinion, you have a priority now, that is make planes of the same tier have the same stats. The simple fact that the german is monoplane made me spend my little money on it, and let the allied aside for a while... Think about it, please.

And the idea of grouping the games by tiers is good, although it is not feasible without a complete re-engeneering of the whole thing...

Leave things just as they are please zup.

G.I. Mac McMelkor wrote: ...P.s. You're Wig, by the way. Do you not have enough coins for ALL the planes?

I'm ranked # 72 in game. I had almost 3 million coins and was able to buy two of the new planes. I was able to fully up grade one. I still need almost a million more coins to fully upgrade the other. I figure that at the rate I earn coins (I play quite a bit) it will take me about 3 months for each new plane.

To get the new D.v111 fully upgraded will cost a total of 2.2m coins. The most cost effective way to buy them would be to spend $98.80 for 5m "+ 250,000 free" I could then get two of the top tier planes fully upgraded. Uh, not going to happen. I would no longer be married.

Edit: on the other hand; I can justify a $30 purchase here and there and I'll only have to spend a couple of nights in the dog house.

To hell with Realism Zup. Stick some SIDEWINEDERS on these things and let the Blood Bath began .

Team Killer. wrote: To hell with Realism Zup. Stick some SIDEWINEDERS on these things and let the Blood Bath began .

Jajajajajajajajaja

well, this is why I'm asking. The easy choice is matching tier planes having the same stats: 3rd plane german vs 3rd plane allied equal stats.

Now, many many many people has complained that it is ridiculous that a Spad or a SE5a which were extremelly fast planes have the same speed than an albatros for instance. So I adjusted it to be a little more realistic.

It won't be 100% realistic because then everyone will fly only one plane. In general I think it's a fair balance because faster planes have worse maneuverability and stuff. But my big challenge is the Razor. The D8 was clearly superior to anything done before and since the war ended... no allied plane was built that matched it.

Same tier, same stats. Its more important than realism, IMHO.
Its a multiplayer game at first, and mutiplayer games can NOT be unfair for one side or another...
Not only stats, but the SIZE of the planes need to be re-evaluated, if you don't mind about me saying it.
Just my "two cents".

I like the stat variation to be honest. Every plane has its strength and its weakness. Just ehat we asked for.

I actually thought the D8 was a Moraf only plane. That would replace the zebra DV. I like how they the D8 and sopwiths start out as tier 2 like planes that eith each upgrade gets stronger and stronger. I live the whole update. The only problem I have is that everyone in a D8 is near impossible to hit. We have to find a way to get behind them to get a kill. I think with time, tactics will arise to help compensate for the D8s flying style.

[LB] Pedrinho wrote: Same tier, same stats. Its more important than realism, IMHO.
Its a multiplayer game at first, and mutiplayer games can NOT be unfair for one side or another...
Not only stats, but the SIZE of the planes need to be re-evaluated, if you don't mind about me saying it.
Just my "two cents".

Gadds I hate to agree with him (joking) but I think he's right with things the way they are now you will let one side dominate the game regardless what Pilots are flying the planes.

zuperman wrote: well, this is why I'm asking. The easy choice is matching tier planes having the same stats: 3rd plane german vs 3rd plane allied equal stats.

Now, many many many people has complained that it is ridiculous that a Spad or a SE5a which were extremelly fast planes have the same speed than an albatros for instance. So I adjusted it to be a little more realistic.

It won't be 100% realistic because then everyone will fly only one plane. In general I think it's a fair balance because faster planes have worse maneuverability and stuff. But my big challenge is the Razor. The D8 was clearly superior to anything done before and since the war ended... no allied plane was built that matched it.

You can bet that more people than ever (point grubber types) will back out of the hangar when they are allied.

This is so they can hopefully land in a Zep game, and/or use the superior German plane.

I think its a problem.

There needs to be more motivation to play the allied side.

Multi bomb aircraft or aircraft with gun turrets are a few possible ideas.