|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: …
The greatest and best way to get rid of camping is to stop attempting to shoot down retreating pilots....(period)

Darraxx, the thread is drifting!

Some thoughts:

Swop, I understand your sentiments, but...

When I make it in to hit a hangar I shoot my way out. I'll head out but I'll gladly take out reds along my way. If there is an incoming blue I'll turn back to help him make it in to bomb. If the reds don't shoot me down they are making a tactical error.

So, tell me...
1. Why shouldn't the reds try to shoot me down as I leave?
2. Why shouldn't I shoot reds on my way out?
3. Why shouldn't I help cover incoming blue bombers?
4. Why should anyone complain about any of this?


Darraxx' s original post here was about spawnkilling/campers. I think [e]hammer tool's response said it best; about driving away newer players. I really think it would be best to have some additional immunity for all spawning players. Personally, I actually like the challenge of fighting off camper/spawnkillers now that I have the skills to handle it. It gets my adrenaline pumping and I get pissed and want nothing more than to return the favor! But honestly, those are some of my most memorable games lately.


On the other hand; why is it a problem for an unbalanced game to end quickly? If the outnumbered defenders can drive off the reds it's a great accomplishment! Without the imbalance, the opportunity would never arise. Besides, if the game ends, maybe the next one will be better balanced...or not!

Anyway, it's always going to be the same. Some people are courteous, others are scum. You are who you choose to be. Personally I'll hold myself to my own standards and if someone else does something I don't like (to myself or another) I'll do my best to give them what they deserve.

BTW Swop, as part of a previous conversation, one of the (many) reasons I don't feel that the game rankings accurately reflect a pilots skill is that many courteous players will switch to help underdog teams. This makes it so their total points and "games won" stats are lower than someone who is focused on their own points. Not saying that it's the only way to be courteous, just that it is not rewarded in points. (Feel free to PM me rather than clutter Darraxx' s thread.)

"I do not dress up like a popinjay, yet inwardly I keep my dantiness." -Cyrano de Bergerac

Find me one instance where I came to the forum or game crying foul play for camping... or even spawnkilling.. or sneaking.. or dropping. Unlike you, I don't take this little game too seriously. I find the fun in being camped on. Trying to take them out in a turnfight, luring them away, braking and only taking off to eliminate incoming bombers. My stance on camping has been the same since I started playing flight sims. You lose control of your airspace, you have to regain control before you mount an offensive attack while the enemies advancement still continues.

gunnerzz wrote: .... CAMPINGS NOT AGAINST RULES OR IS IT BANNABLE. ...PERIOD!!

Nor is spawnkilling, dropping or sneaking or whining for that matter!

*[M]VonHulk wrote:

£ | Ziza | wrote:

*[M]VonHulk wrote: It's the only way some can earn kills.

No hulk, face to face its the only way so many can earn kills, and when some one dont do that, make a topic complaining about " why no all te pilots make my style ?!"

Many of droppers drop because they are new in the game. Or make a spawnkiller because they don't know about that. And so many make only one tactic, one style because everbody only do that

I can play either way, But im not after cheap kills. I drop my bomb and go reload, I dont hang around, never have. Call it what you want, tactics or cheap kills. Its all the same to me. Campers or Spawnkillers, It just slows down the game. Bombs still have to be dropped.

Thats the big deal, you think your style its the only one who has all the true. And if you are a bomber pilot, you must not request everbody wonna be a bomber pilot. If you come back to reload, it's your decision, but it's not a rule and that's no make you better pilot or more honorable. If you are a shooter pilot, you gonna do that for win, if some one it's a sneaker, he gonna do that for win, if some one it's a figther, he gonna do that for win. Nothing slows down the game most than that pilots who wan only one style... Really sorry my english :3

Very true Mr Mcfate!!!I agree with you 100%....Every games gonna have different circumstances a good pilot can deal with them!!!Speaking of that ive got a better topic why do some people get shot down a few times then leave the game???I wont mention any names "swop" opps didnt mean to do that lol I enter a game shoot him down a few times and boom hes gone lol....this has happened several times....I call that noob hunting lol...whatever its all good...

Wonder if michael jordan cried about being double teamed most of his career?????I bet he just dealt with it...im done have fun with this pointless topic..

If people are going to keep crying about campers, spawnkillers or whatever then dont play cuz campers, spawnkillers or whatever are here to stay. What, do you want Zup to make you immune until youre a mile for your ship or base? Lol. I play Titanfalls I get campers! I play Ghost I get campers! I play Blacks Ops 2 I get campers! Screw it i camp to sometimes lol. If you hate campers or spawnkillers so much I have Sonic the hedge hog part 1&2, Crash Bandicoot, Kung fu panda and some other single player games i can send you for free.

Lol awesome rat tat lol lmao very true!!!!good point....you forgot about pac man though

Nah gunnerz, Ms Pac Man lol

although in fact it is important to clarify that the term "camper" is not properly used. because the camper is someone who is entrenched in one place and is attacking defensively. Here is the complete opposite, a camper is imposing air superiority. he is not hiding

so does the sneaker, which for some reason flank the enemy deserves a negative term to be named

I only spawn camp on you sexy lot. I let the ugly one's go......

Gunnerz I actually agree with what you said. I only said what I said so others know the reasons how I play. So dont get wrong impression that I disagree with you when I dont. I was just clarifying thats all.

With regard to me leaving its only because of my battery or things that happen outside of game. I never leave EVER because I get shot down a few times. so no "noob hunting from me"...

McFate, I do stick around and help incoming bombers and such but I dont camp....but am tired of all of the camping complaining and tired of all of the confusion by those who complain between spawnkilling and camping.

...because pilots keep complaining about camping and it gets old.....

my answer is this McFate.....

then pilots should never complain about camping if a pilot camps due to a pilot attempting to shoot a pilot retreating.

points are perfect thank you very much.....kill/ratio? important but overrated in light of all of the aspects of dogfight.....McFate thought I would bring this up if your going to bring up unrelated things to this thread cause I havent brought up unrelated things to this thread.

....

Again for the upteenth time....spawnkilling and camping are two different things and its getting old when pilots lump them in together

It gets old seeing "spawnkilling/camping"....as opposed to addressing them seperately when in fact they are totally different.

and another thing is when pilots complain about camping they use the term how "they hate being shot in the back by campers" in light of these same pilots shooting retreating pilots to base to reload after they have bombed.

They complain about being shot from behind by campers but then complain about campers who do that in response to being shot at from behind, while retreating to base to reload, by those very same pilots......

Whoops my apologies swop!!!I agree why leave to reload when your retreating to get shot from behind!!

no big deal. I should apologize for causing confusion. My most recent reply sums up my solid view perfectly. (I see by your response you agree Gunnerz)

BTW....lol.personal FYI of Swops flying: so as not to be accused of camping, I will always attempt to retreat until a red attempts to shoot me from behind...when that occurs I may camp......Whats funny is these same "camping complainers" are NOW complaining about pilots retreating and not helping out bombers when the whole retreating to reload is so one doesnt get accused of camping.....

so for these pilots which is it?....(I'm sure Gunnerz you would agree with me here)....they cant have it both
ways.....

What is great is that spawnkilling is clearly defined but camping really cannot be defined clearly as spawnkilling....Spawnkilling is not subjective (even though some have different levels of acceptance of spawnkilling for certain situations....for the Swop I have a more "absolute negative opinion" for all forms of spawnkilling). The point of my posts is clearly state the clouded view complaining pilots have between camping and spawnkilling by lumping them together and saying they are the same thing when they are clearly two different things.

Hey swop and gunner get a room or settle your stuff with pm between your selves

Rabbit....it was already settled.....

I'm just pointing out the double standards of camping complainers.....if you camp to defend yourself from those who are attempting to shoot you down while retreating your looked at harshly as a camper by the "camping complainers".....If you defend a bomber coming in after personally bomber your called harshly as a camper by the "camper complainers". If you reteat to reload to avoid being called a camper your wrongly looked at as "not a team player" because your not helping a teammate bomb when doing so is considered camping...

On top of that you have the clear definition of spawnkilling vs the not as clear definition of camping....and the wrong lumping together therein.....

It seems to me the "camping complainers" need to settle there stuff as opposed to posting things that are subjective and not clearly defined.

Hey darrax MiND YOUR BUSINESS. ...you started a thread and peoples gonna post on it...or did you think something different

Btw darrax we was trying to settle your cry babing post

I think Darra proved he cant settle it cause I sure wasnt being a cry baby....just pointing out the illogic of being a "camping complainer".

Sorry, but my opinion is: what is not prohibited is allowed. Thats mean so in this game is no spawn killing and no camping. Its all part of game. I repeat ones more - only my opinion.

Thanks for pointing out the Catch22, Swop.

...

DentinheaD wrote: I only spawn camp on you sexy lot. I let the ugly one's go......

Couple of Drinks and you ugly ones look like 10's.... If I spawn camp on you ugly lot, I've been drinking.

Im glad for the thanks but why would you present to me the catch 22 in the first place? Im just going to pursue the do as many sorties as possible. Any whining about me not helping team is bogus and the pilots who say those things will be looked at as double standard pilots.

Like all the other camping complainers or camping/spawnkilling lumper's

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: Im glad for the thanks but why would you present to me the catch 22 in the first place? ...

I was just admiring the circular logic of your posts.

First you made an absolute statement about how it is best to let reds leave after bombing:

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: ...The greatest and best way to get rid of camping is to stop attempting to shoot down retreating pilots....(period)

Then after some other reasoned comments you said something that I feel is a perfect explanation of why you should shoot reds who have already bombed even if they aren't "camping":

|111th|tSwopCaml wrote: .... I do stick around and help incoming bombers and such but I dont camp...

I was thanking you for pointing out the crux of the matter. It's a catch22. There are valid reasons for either side of the issue. That's why it's a source of friction. The fact that everyone draws their own line on what is "justified" makes it worse.

It seems that most people choose not to spawnkill (in most circumstances) and feel there is little justification for it. "Camping" (however it is defined) is more of a grey area and easier for more people justify. Complaining is based on how someone feels about how they are treated by other players in certian circumstances. Since the "situation" is very different depending on the players perspective (red or blue) there are going to be times when people feel wrongly treated while their oponents feel that the complaints are baseless.


Swop, the only exception I take to anything you said about camping is when you said "...(period)". That finality about perspective is why people get upset about what other people do.

(period!)

Campers suck this is true and spawn killing is not any better, in fact, they are one and the same campers don't just fly around waving one finger out the cockpit as they pass, no, they shoot as many planes as they can before getting killed themselves, same as spawn killers. This activity has been a sore spot on this game sense day one, but there's not really much can be done about it, besides it is a war game and in war you kill as many enemy as you can. This being said, I'd get ready to live with this behavior because it's not going away anytime soon...