Hi

I've been sending updates to Microsoft for Dogfight during weeks and they keep getting rejected just because they have some internal bug. It has arrived to a point that it's creating trouble for all players in all platforms since Windows players have all the bugs and non of the fixes including:
- Shadows and water are messed up.
- Connections and positions are messed up, provoking lag on all network and provoking people to see planes where they are not since all platforms have a version that Windows doesn't. It also provokes ghosting, meaning, you get killed and you don't see anyone because Windows players see you and you don't and viceversa.
- Joystick/Gamepad support on Windows 8/8.1 is a fucking joke. Seriously, there is no nicer way to put this. I had to wait for Windows 8.1 to add (yes, add in 2013!) joystick and gamepad support and only an update can fix this.
- No way to distinguish between a keyboard and a touch screen so that people without keyboard are not able to type their name on a textfield because the virtual keyboard doesn't come up. Yes, this has to also be fixed on windows 8.1 in 2013 because apparently this was hyper rocket science. In short, tons of people with a surface is stuck without able to login or register until they get a keyboard plugged in or upgrade to windows 8.1.
- All kind of crazy stuff with Windows 8 (in-app purchases for instance are a nightmare because you can't buy points twice on a same day unless, again, you upgrade to 8.1... apparently consumable purchases were not tested enough by 2013 after years in all other platfoms and I'm tired of having to apologize to potential customers as to why their purchases are not going through)

In short... the situation is so ridiculous that is getting tons of players pissed (rightly so) at the game and at all Windows players who have no fault at all on this. I've sent another update today, if it doesn't go through I'll stick to all the other platforms until Windows 8 decides to act like a modern OS. I think it was about time I made the situation public after weeks (if not months) of complains on my inbox. I'm a big supporter of Microsoft but I can't defend the impossible.

Regards
==
UPDATE
I see lot of misunderstanding on the replies. Let me clarify a bit:

1) Microsoft Phones are not the same than Windows 8. Windows Phone 8 is a completely different OS and they will not be discontinued. The last update with Dogfight 4.4.48 was published 2 days ago with no problem.
2) Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 are different systems. Windows 8 is horrible from a developer point of view. It lacked everything I mentioned on my original post. Windows 8.1 fixed most of it, that's why I ask everyone to upgrade to Windows 8.1 because it's better, faster and free upgrade.

3) So now, Windows 8 (not 8.1) will be dropped for sure. No doubt about it. It simply sucks. The issue is that I may discontinue even Windows 8.1. Why? Because I can't publish updates. Microsoft has an internal bug on their system that doesn't allow for updates of Dogfight to go through. This situation has lasted for a long time already. It is impossible for me to maintain the Windows 8.1 version (or any other platform) if I can't release fixes and updates. Therefore, unless Microsoft is able to fix their internal bug, I simply cannot push updates to that platform.

4) Additional options: I will not publish to Windows Vista, Windows 7 or XP. If for whatever reason I have to officially drop out Windows 8.1, what I will probably do is create a Facebook version of the game that you can run from inside a web browser. This way you can play it on any computer and you won't have all the nightmare going on with Windows 8.

In short, if things are not fixed on Microsoft end, I'll just switch to a different system but you guys will be able to continue playing it. Just not as a Windows 8 store app, but probably a Facebook app.

==
UPDATE 2:
I have an important update guys. Thanks you all!

I've been in talks with Microsoft about this issue for a while and I let them know I was about to drop support on the platform and point them to this thread... well, when they saw the support that Dogfight players in windows gave here, they were impressed. We are now working together and the most likely scenario is that the game will continue to run on Windows 8.1 as soon as the update is out (probably today!)

Just keep in mind that Windows 8.0 will be dropped, you guys need to upgrade to 8.1. In usage there is almost no difference but internally Windows 8.0 is a nightmare for developers. They fixed it all on 8.1, just to give you an idea... with the new update on Windows 8.1:

- You can do in-app purchases of points without any trouble.
- The game will render water, shadows and all way faster.
- Joysticks and gamepads will work.
- You will be able to enter your info without a keyboard
- No more positions on carriers funky or completely out of sync with all the other players.
- Much love and hugs from players on all other platforms who hate you for having an older version of the game.

Thanks everyone for the feedback and the support. It really helped to get Microsoft on board

Sir Please dnt do it..most of the pilots are from Windows8/8.1 if u do it..lots of players wont able to play this game..so PLaease sir dnt discontinue

I am sorry to hear that as a Windows keyboard player.. but I totally understand your frustration with their lack of support and other issues. I hope, nay PRAY, that I will still be able to play this game I love so much with my laptop until such a time as Microsoft gets off their high horse/cushy butts and gets on the ball like other platforms!

As it stands I don't have any of the issues you have spoken about except for the inability to purchase points.. which I no longer care about, but I am sure your wallet does! I can play the game just fine on Version 4.4.44 Just leave us with that and I will be a happy pilot!


{£}ZebraUp

I have only been playing this game for almost 3 months now, but I enjoy it so much! To take it away from me (and everyone else using windows) will break my heart. I will try and enjoy my last few days on dogfight though, and ill hope and pray for that update to go through!! In worst case scenario, ill use my ipad to talk (it is impossible for me to aim on my ipad! lol) Well, till the next news update from you zup... Hope all you windows 8 players like me make the best of it!!

-Knmh

Srry to here that Zup,I to will not be able to play this AWESOME game if windows is discontinued,but,I can understand your frustration.I am gobsmacked that microsoft is not doing more for you.I myself would be willing to donate money to a fund for this and I am sure many other players would also(just a thought),hope it all works out.



ps. maybe if u could still keep the world chat for win 8 users,so we can keep in touch with all the peolple we have met at your site.


cheers
Punkchef

Well this really sucks.. I've played for about 3 months the same as Knmh and I've made it to level 22 and really built up my stats and im going to hate to see this go What's the Lafayette Escadrille going do without there head Zebra? Zebras don't like to use small touch screens they cant see when the tigers are sneaking up

It almost makes me not want to play because anymore points I get will be for nothing because I cant play using a phone/tablet. plus my brother Weazel wont be able to play because he only has a Windows 8 laptop.

Goodbye friends

~Mr.Becken~

Zup, is there something the population can do to pressure Microsoft. I'm intending to upgrade to Windows 8.1 and would love to have this game on my phone.

My heart sunk when I saw this. I totally understand. I do. And I understand you are gonna have to do what's best for all involved. Is there any other way you know of that us PC users can keep on? Switching to a Linux based system or something?

Is this gonna just be win 8, or. 8.1 also?

Dang, I still cannot believe this is happening. Seems surreal.

I'm game to fork out some dough if it will help. I'm sure others would too if it was broadcasted beyond this forum.

If you do stop the support, could one server be dedicated to win userers? It would really, really suck, but at least let us keep playing. I started a topic about the servers the other day, maybe I could be of some help in this arena? Let me know Zup. There has got to be something to keep it up for us who are screwed by Microsoft.

Two Ton wrote: I'm game to fork out some dough if it will help. I'm sure others would too if it was broadcasted beyond this forum.

If you do stop the support, could one server be dedicated to win userers? It would really, really suck, but at least let us keep playing. I started a topic about the servers the other day, maybe I could be of some help in this arena? Let me know Zup. There has got to be something to keep it up for us who are screwed by Microsoft.

That's a GREAT idea Two Ton! After all there ARE a lot of Windows player flying in this game! A server just for us would suck as we couldn't fly with our other friends & competitors that we enjoy seeing as both red & blue, but it would be a gazillion times better than not being able to fly at all!!!

ZebraUp wrote:

Two Ton wrote: I'm game to fork out some dough if it will help. I'm sure others would too if it was broadcasted beyond this forum.

If you do stop the support, could one server be dedicated to win userers? It would really, really suck, but at least let us keep playing. I started a topic about the servers the other day, maybe I could be of some help in this arena? Let me know Zup. There has got to be something to keep it up for us who are screwed by Microsoft.

That's a GREAT idea Two Ton! After all there ARE a lot of Windows player flying in this game! A server just for us would suck as we couldn't fly with our other friends & competitors that we enjoy seeing as both red & blue, but it would be a gazillion times better than not being able to fly at all!!!

Right, it would horribly suck, but it would give Microsoft time to get their act together and pressure off Zup. Then, we could join back up when things get good. Maybe let a few pilots in the other servers when time comes to test the bugs and fixes.

Zup I seriously understand you got to go with the majority on this. I would, anyone with half a brain would. I'm just hoping there can be some alternatives for us in the mean time. No pressure...

Zup, I don't know what exactly you can do, but DONT REMOVE WINDOWS!many of us play on windows (im going to make a thread just so you can see how many) and I am one of them. ive only been on the game since January, but I love it (I would say a few more words but I don't want to get banned/muted on the possible last few days I have on DF). This game is a way that I relax after a stressful day, I have many friends on here that help me, that I can talk to. Please, find some way for windows uses to keep flying, maybe make a server that is meant for windows players, and those who aren't windows, but want to play with windows players and don't care about the glitches, can still fly with us. I LOVE THIS GAME! please don't take it away!

Zup, please save us windows users!

I agree with Two Ton and Punkchef, please don't just cut us off fully from this AMAZING game! Their ideas are atleast giving some ways of hope to still be able to play... or even atleast just chat! Especially the different server, that can buy us some more time to give microsoft a big a$$ whooping Joking aside, all I ask is to please, please don't take us fully away from Dogfight. Please. Thank you and I hope something good will come up soon...

Knmh{INV}

Hey zuperman, will windows 8.1 also be discontinued?

Zuperman wrote: - Shadows and water are messed up.
- Connections and positions are messed up, provoking lag on all network and provoking people to see planes where they are not since all platforms have a version that Windows doesn't. It also provokes ghosting, meaning, you get killed and you don't see anyone because Windows players see you and you don't and viceversa.
- Joystick/Gamepad support on Windows 8/8.1 is a fucking joke. Seriously, there is no nicer way to put this. I had to wait for Windows 8.1 to add (yes, add in 2013!) joystick and gamepad support and only an update can fix this.
- No way to distinguish between a keyboard and a touch screen so that people without keyboard are not able to type their name on a textfield because the virtual keyboard doesn't come up. Yes, this has to also be fixed on windows 8.1 in 2013 because apparently this was hyper rocket science. In short, tons of people with a surface is stuck without able to login or register until they get a keyboard plugged in or upgrade to windows 8.1.
- All kind of crazy stuff with Windows 8 (in-app purchases for instance are a nightmare because you can't buy points twice on a same day unless, again, you upgrade to 8.1... apparently consumable purchases were not tested enough by 2013 after years in all other platfoms and I'm tired of having to apologize to potential customers as to why their purchases are not going through)

ZebraUp wrote: I am sorry to hear that as a Windows keyboard player.. but I totally understand your frustration with their lack of support and other issues. I hope, nay PRAY, that I will still be able to play this game I love so much with my laptop until such a time as Microsoft gets off their high horse/cushy butts and gets on the ball like other platforms!

As it stands I don't have any of the issues you have spoken about except for the inability to purchase points.. which I no longer care about, but I am sure your wallet does! I can play the game just fine on Version 4.4.44 Just leave us with that and I will be a happy pilot!


{£}ZebraUp

I thought about this last night some more and still see why you have to do it. I hope that you will find a way to work around it, but had fun while it lasted nonetheless.

Joystick is not an issue I just use my keyboard. I have thought about using a joystick, but it really is not a deal breaker at all. I say why not just let it be known that a joystick for windows is out.

So if you could leave Win 8.1 users up that would be great. I am not sure how that works or if its possible.

I am in the same boat as Zebra here though. I have not found any of the other issues except the ability to purchase points. Well, there is the lag, but I have found that if I play in certain servers then its not as bad, and I'm fine with it. I can see how it would be easier to discontinue it versus put up with emails of new guys who get upset about it.

The points I work around that buy using my iPhone. I thought that a really good way to work around that is to have a paypal setup that Windows users could use? Kind of like how you link the forum in the app, you could link a way to paypal.

I am not sure about the the business side of that, and kind of assume you probably have already thought of it, however in my desperation I wanted to mention it just in case.

And last but not least, what about discontinuing it in the windows store, but letting some of us run it "testing" it for you. I would assume that it could be loaded on a PC, or win tablet, without having to go through the store. I saw where you did this for android devices on one of the updates you did.

---

I also thought a lot about Zup's side guys. I am sure most of you know this, but this is no small feat that Zup has accomplished. A game that is played on two very distinct platforms may not sound like much, but really is. I cannot even begin to imagine the inbox Zup has. Think about it, we on this forum are but a small fraction of the players out there. I see the questions and issues that get posted here, take those and think about the ratio of ones we do not see that go straight to him. Honestly, when I thought about it, I can imagine it would be enough to make a person think about walking away from it all together.

But, I can see where just walking away from one side would at least help in the short term. So what I am saying is that I can only imagine the amount of email he is getting now from those who are upset he is letting go of the windows side. This is not going to help anything. Trust me, I am sure he has thought about it all and how its going to effect people. While you might think that sending him an email pleading for windows, or (hopefully not) sending him an email of how you are upset is beneficial to our plight, it really is not.

He is not dumb. He has thought through this. Its not going to help anything. Let him have some room to think and come up with something. Obviously he is not totally against it or else he would not have beat his head against the window one more time with the latest update. Patience is only so thick, and most would have been done with it a while back.

Hopefully there is a way through all of this but realize in the end it is a game. Some games you just cannot play on some devices. Sometimes if you like a game you have played you have to get whatever it can be played on.

I agree with you Two Ton, Lets trust that Zuperman has made the best decision he is able to right now. I'm a windows user but I'm willing to go out of my way to continue to play.

Um, I'm also a pilot and I'm from the Bombshell Babes. These people mean family to,me and they are some of the best people I've ever met! Also its a nice way to socialize after a testing day! Sir Zuperman, I understand that u have issues with dog fight on windows but I'm usin a Lumia device and I received an update two days back.......please don't discontinue this game, if possible, all the dogfight players using windows can come together and sign a petition to show to Microsoft is it can help us get this game fixed and running good...

I was thinking that can't Zup make a software which doesn't depend on Windows Modern UI and installs in Desktop mode. It'll solve the coins problem. And there'll be no need to pass Windows Store Tests.
But it'll be a problem for Windows RT users who only get the option to install from Windows 8 Store.

Um, like V.killer, are u talking of it not needing to be in the games section but like a desktop app like eg. A calculator.....

Padmé wrote: Um, like V.killer, are u talking of it not needing to be in the games section but like a desktop app like eg. A calculator.....

Yes Padme, thats what i'm talking about.

Yea killer, that might work! Cos if its the Xbox games ui that has a bug, the desktop should be okay......and bug free and u just gave sir superman an idea.....hope we pray its possible

Padmé wrote: Yea killer, that might work! Cos if its the Xbox games ui that has a bug, the desktop should be okay......and bug free and u just gave sir superman an idea.....hope we pray its possible

One more benefit that it'll work on Windows Vista, 7 also and will add more users to the game.

I'm all for trying new ideas, as long as everyone can play, and no one needs to complain about defects.

I see lot of misunderstanding on the replies. Let me clarify a bit:

1) Microsoft Phones are not the same than Windows 8. Windows Phone 8 is a completely different OS and they will not be discontinued. The last update with Dogfight 4.4.48 was published 2 days ago with no problem.
2) Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 are different systems. Windows 8 is horrible from a developer point of view. It lacked everything I mentioned on my original post. Windows 8.1 fixed most of it, that's why I ask everyone to upgrade to Windows 8.1 because it's better, faster and free upgrade.

3) So now, Windows 8 (not 8.1) will be dropped for sure. No doubt about it. It simply sucks. The issue is that I may discontinue even Windows 8.1. Why? Because I can't publish updates. Microsoft has an internal bug on their system that doesn't allow for updates of Dogfight to go through. This situation has lasted for a long time already. It is impossible for me to maintain the Windows 8.1 version (or any other platform) if I can't release fixes and updates. Therefore, unless Microsoft is able to fix their internal bug, I simply cannot push updates to that platform.

4) Additional options: I will not publish to Windows Vista, Windows 7 or XP. If for whatever reason I have to officially drop out Windows 8.1, what I will probably do is create a Facebook version of the game that you can run from inside a web browser. This way you can play it on any computer and you won't have all the nightmare going on with Windows 8.

In short, if things are not fixed on Microsoft end, I'll just switch to a different system but you guys will be able to continue playing it. Just not as a Windows 8 store app, but probably a Facebook app.

Thanks for clarifying Zuperman I admit I totally misunderstood. I support you in whatever you do, thx for all you're doing for the good of dogfight players!

So if I upgrade to 8.1 it will work ?

Hey Zup
yes windows/Microsoft half time there updates wont come unless I go to control panel yada yada,so were prob doomed cause nothing works if they don't care.I thank you for little time ive had and whatever is left.This is a great game and fun as heck.Im so addicted your probably doing me favor by dropping windows lol ive ben here 3weeks nothing getting done around house..Hogdog22

so zup, do you mean to tell me that I will be able to continue playing?
despite me having to stay with windows 8?
(I cant update to windows 8.1, it f***s with my computer for some reason)

Please say yes!

RF i think Zup has already said Wins8 i will drop not Win8.1
I use 8 too i m in the same boat RF...!!

why you can't upgrade to win8.1? it's a free upgrade and runs faster than win8