Thank you Wig for telling myself and other PC players what it is like when playing on another device! I thought I had windows 8 but I still get updates so maybe it's windows 8.1
I must admit that I really have quite a limited knowledge about the ins and outs of a computer, let alone hacks and mods. I did look up a lag switch, some people call it tapping I think, and yes I it is interesting but I can see why someone would go to all that trouble just to excel at a game. Not to mention its a game and the whole point of it and fun of it is to compete with other players in a fair game!

Anyway yes I certainly was missing out on some of the context and history about window players. Thanks for filling me in! I guess with anything though there are a few individuals who ruin it for everyone else; the few who cheat ruin it for very body else playing, they also give PC players a bad name I guess.

About the problems with window 8 players, as you said the synchronisation between them and apple/android users has improved but do you know of anything to help smooth out the last few creases? I mean it obviously doesn't happen all the time (when you said in that game it was the first time I'd heard about it!) As I said earlier my understanding is minimal but couldn't both PC users an apple/android users all connect to the server in the same way?format? Hence reducing the difference between the two feeds to nothing?!

I do actually have it downloaded on my iPod and would love to play it on there but whenever I enter a game the app always closes. No update to fix that yet :/

Thanks again!

Fun Fact: im from New York....

Duke, my comparatively limited tech savvy gives me to believe that the syncing problem is not something that can be addressed at the player/device level, possibly not even at the server level. Consider that iphone/ipad mobile ios and Android were designed specifically for handhelds while Windows 8/8.1 was designed for PCs. The source of the syncing incompatibility is the differing ways in which these operating systems push and pull information into and away from their respective hardware. I can't speak to issues having to do with Windows 8 Phone, which you'd think might be more compatible, being a handheld o/s, only to say that it's as fraught with Dogfight problems as Win8.

Ahh so it is actually something that Windows has installed into all of their devices, whether a PC or phone. It has a different way of sending and receiving the data, to the method that apple and android users send and receive the information. Thus the different devices will all show the data at maybe slightly different times or even show completely different information all together. Thanks again for bring me up to speed with the why's and how's

Well wig 'speaking about earning your stripes' I play on a laptop and I believe I HAVE EARNED MINE! I don't have any advantage that I can see over anybody that I play against who are on other devices. As a matter of fact, if anything, I am laboring under what would be considered to many as crippling handicaps.. i.e. using arrow keys to maneuver, having constant plane lift at full throttle, & the inability to shoot players far out as I cannot aim precisely with arrow keys.. not to mention try using chute or tank controls with a computer.. sheeeesh! & I get shot down PLENTY.. even by new players.

Ask tKestrel if during our head to head matchup in Whip's tournament if I exhibited any even remotely unfair advantages at all.

Many of the things you spoke about are in fact happening in the game.. cheats.. huge screens.. hacks of some sort or another.. yet even if all those were available to me I wouldn't use them because it would be dishonorable and akin to moving someone's chess pieces while they weren't looking.. or looking at their cards in a poker game.. just not something I was brought up to do.

If I had the means to do so I would play on a tablet.. but I don't.. yet I have grown to love this game so I labor away with my arrow keys.

By the way, I got shot by a player across the map yesterday while sitting on the runway too! Lag isn't restricted to Windows 8 users alone.. much of it is built up in the servers themselves.. along with poor connections.

& yes.. I read ALL the old posts concerning Windows players & the quirks when I first started playing this game.. it was SERIOUSLY messed up back then!

Come on guys admit it. There is a big advantage. Us guys on IPad no matter how good we are don't fly backwards. Don't shake like we see win uses do. We have to constantly compansat for where we think you are because your not where the I pad has you. Some guys enven go so far with windows to make themselves disappear for to 2 - 4 seconds and then blame it on lag when ever they use what I refer to as cheating tactics. Only when you get right behind them or shoot them once. So don't cry that it oh so hard. Try fighting with a tablet against all those odds that are against us. Plus the sync of win and apple iPad makes the games almost unbearable sometimes. You poor little people with all that high tech expensive computers with big screens I feel so bad for you.......... Lol

Zebraup, your comportment in Dogfight is above reproach. So, I'm sure, is HitMan's as is the case with nine out of ten Windows users. The thrust of what I've been saying is not that most Windows users exploit their advantages, it's that the advantages exist and the rest of us are faced with having to play against them. I know that you, Zebra, have the challenge of using a keyboard interface. I'm sure that's a pain in the neck! I know also, from considerable playing time against you, that you benefit from the enhanced turning speed that Win8 provides. As early as your low ranked entry into the upper servers, in the slower planes, you were able to turn inside me or at least turn with me. That has nothing to do with your being a great chaser (which I'm sure you are) or me being a lousy chaser (which I'm sure I am) but is, clearly, about something having to do with the tech we're using.

It's true that there have been many extended discussions since the day Windows players first arrived in Dogfight. I don't think it's a bad idea to revisit the subject now since the problem still exists but has changed over time. Initially it was almost exclusively Win8phone. Now we're seeing a major influx of PC, game pad and large display users. As Hell Cat says, there's no sense in denying that the problems exist, they do. This sort of exchange is much better for the community than players eating their frustrations or harboring ill will based on something most of us can't control.

Well thank you Wig for the compliment.. and as for the rest, well I really don't think that I have some sort of turning speed advantage.. & even Joaquin said there is no enhanced turning or speed advantages regardless of platform played on.. the one thing I DO have though is quick reflexes.. very quick.. it's why I am still able to race motorcycles as a beat up old man even against younger, better opponents on quicker, newer motorcycles while I race a frequently thrashed old machine (with approx. 1/2 - 2/3 their horsepower!) from days gone past..
Add to that the fact that quite often I try to anticipate my opponents flying & turning and it may SEEM I have some sort of advantage when indeed I don't.

I know this is a tough room in which to sell the argument that Win8 provides a speed advantage, but it's not something the Win8 user could know. You either hit or get hit, catch or get caught. You don't see what we see. I've been playing Dogfight long enough to be able to tell the difference. Joaquin may be looking at certain specific factors that suggest, on paper, that there is no difference. That's a view not founded upon in-game field testing. I just now had a game with a Win8 user in red and went out of my way to engage him in several turning fights. He was a Group Captain flying the "Red Baron" Dr1, I was in the SE5a. I don't need to delineate the performance stats of the two planes. The reason I caught him was his inexperience. He made mistakes. But when we were in a flat banking turn together he blew past my windshield so fast I could barely see him. Neither BStrachan's nor BluE MaX's iPads do that. But more than a handful of Win8 users PCs do. Not a matter of opinion or of reflexes - mine aren't half bad, neither are B's or MaX's - but a matter of tested fact.

Well I know for a FACT that your experience in this game far outweighs mine, as well as 99% of the players here, so if you say that this guy could turn faster than lightning I won't dispute the fact! All I know is I can't... and ask tKestrel if I was able to turn like this guy you were up against.. or ask any of the moraf's that have recently shot me down.. and this guy was in the flying Red Brick no less!
I wish I could turn like that! lol!

Personaly I think there is skill.. the long shots arnt due to windows 8 let me play u on my 4inch phone and then ill play using Windows 8 because I can bring people down from a long distance I just position my beed in the general location below there name its has nothing to do with the device or size of the screen.

Sincerely HitMan

I get that we all want to be recognized for skill alone, HitMan. That simply, unfortunately, isn't the case. Among phone users there are faster and slower, larger and smaller, higher rez and lower rez phones. Among tablet users there are 7" Kindles and there are iPad minis and 3s and 4s and Airs. Single core, dual core, quad core processors and on and on. The gear makes a difference, it's silly to argue otherwise. And seriously, don't you think we all (above a certain level) know how to aim just below the name? LOL!

Zebra, Kestrel is a non-Windows user who gives me fits. He's a perfect illustration of what I've just said. I never underestimate his skill but I find it hard to believe that he's vastly more skilled than Brian Strachan, Samweb or Arkangel/TheVampire. I can turn with them, I can't with him. I'm fairly certain that Kes would not place himself above Brian, Sam or Vamp in terms of skill, as good as he is.

If when I joined Dogfight all Apple users were declaring Android to be plagued with glitches and advantages I wouldn't have argued. They'd been around long enough to know better than I. I'd love to see Windows users at least cop to the inarguable facts instead of belaboring an unsupportable point.

Not arguing with you Wig.. just saying that according to Joaquin there is no advantages in turning speed on different platforms or devices.. and I certainly don't have any advantage from my perspective... other than landing.. and Brian, Sam & Vamp have ALL shot me down numerous times.. as well as many others.. Sam a couple of times just a day or 2 ago against my new Albatros D.V. no less..! And you were in the room on my team! ctc mission.. & all in a turning dogfight battle.. I got him once also because I anticipated his turn or else I would be dead again lol!

So ask Sam if he felt I flew with any advantages.. because I was flying my butt off against him and STILL going down in flames!

I will admit defeat then.... theres no sense in me arguing my case.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse and I'm certainly not suggesting that anything said here applies to 100% of encounters with 100% of players 100% of the time. I've shot down the players I named and they've shot me down their fair share of times. Likewise with Windows users. But, again, when Joaquin says, "There is no advantage." he's speaking from the perspective of someone looking at tech data, not from someone battle testing the game for hours a day every day. To my knowledge he doesn't even have a Windows device with which to test. There most definitely is a turning speed advantage and a head-on hit rate advantage, the degree of the edge depending, I assume, on which size and type of Win8 device is being used. Naturally you guys can't see it...you aren't on the receiving end of it!

Well beating a dead horse is fine.. just don't beat a dead zebra!

Windows 8 sucks there's literally a problem with my laptop every week.

you know i dont think it matters we are here to have fun me personally yeah i think playing this game on windows 8.1 is alot easier but thats how it is, a computer is designed better for gaming. I also have been shot down by people playing this game on a phone its a matter of skill not what u r using to play with just saying

I am not sure what to think now. I respect both you wig and zebra. I believe that there could quite possibly be an 'advantage', if that's the proper word, for win8 users. Then again, maybe not? Regardless I cannot really say because I only have been playing for a short time and only on one device(although I have been dabbling with my phone and wife's iPad).

But what I can say is it makes me feel weird thinking I could possibly have an advantage. I'm really not sure how to feel about it. I know it's just a game, but I know that people take it serious, regardless if they just look at it as a game. I don't want to get "good" only to make it seem like I had an advantage in someone else's eyes. Does that make sense? I enjoy the game, and the people who play it, not so much just a kill or win. The kill or win would get quite boring if it weren't for the others on your team and even the enemy your fighting. So in reality, others opinions(to an extent) mean a lot.

I can say that I am in no way a match against the guys who use non-pc devices who have better planes and are higher ranking. I have gone up against some that I came out with maybe one single bullet hitting their plane. Ok, maybe an exaggeration, but it's pretty close example of what happens.

Would it be wrong for a list of PC and non users be made? It would be interesting to see. I would love to be able start looking for the differences. It's not like it should be some secrete or anything right?