onsekone wrote: Keep talking. You'll get there.

I know that this picture is not your own production !!

But thinking someone (probably a parent) could sit and take picture instead of dress that little child on his legs ...

... mmm this just the kind of thing that could push me to point a weapon on the photographer !! with or without any legal authorization !!

btschuman wrote: "My favorite post yet... 'Cept for the first line. "

My apologies, Jack...I didn't mean to be a rude smartass...just wanted you to know I didn't want to burn your house down! My bad phrasing...trying to keep it light...

Oh, and thanks for the thanks, guys...that 666 thing made me nervous!

Tom

No sweat man. I was really edgy last night with the weather and I wrote that after I had just stopped to try to let the plows do their thing for a while. No surprise that I read your "tone" the wrong way. Sometimes it's hard to figure out what tone someone is writing in on here.

No problem at all, and I still really liked that post.

Now has anyone noticed "the right to bear arms" being meant two ways? Yes guns etc but what if it means you are allowed to kill a bear and keep its arms???? Its worth debate.

btschuman wrote: Here's a debate topic for you: We hear the saber-rattling about the need to remember and stick to what the founding fathers wanted.

Is that actually a sound argument for or against anything?

Don't get me wrong: I am an admirer of what they gave us, and the effort it took to cobble together a document that 13 willful colonies would agree to. I'm just curious as to how anyone can divine in today's world what they could possibly have approved or disapproved of.

Theirs' was a world that lacked cars, AIDS, telephones, good roads, penicillin, the internet, airplanes, moon missions or NASA, a department of agriculture, sophisticated personal weaponry, intercontinental flight, television (broadcast or cable), federal taxes, public education, public health efforts, the Ebola virus, UBL, or even electric generation. In their world, the right to vote could be limited to whether or not you were a member of a church, owned land, paid taxes, had testicles, or were of a particular skin color. In their world, disease and illiteracy were rampant, communications sucked, they could actually justify the existence of slavery as a legal institution in our system.

What they did give us WAS a system that could adapt to change. Yes, we can amend the Constitution (not a very common event...), Congress can pass and Presidents can sign laws, and laws can be interpreted by the Courts, Congress, the Bureaucracy, Presidents, and even the State officials.

It raises the question: Just because the system changes to something the founding fathers did not foresee, would not have liked, might have not understood, does that make it wrong? So long as the basic framework of our democratic republic remains intact (that is, the structure, powers, nature and method of selecting public officials, etc.) if that self-same system is moved to change by events, public pressure, elections, interpretations, or moral imperatives, is that somehow a threat to our political essence?

I'd be interested in DF's thoughts. But, please stick to the original rules. This is about good reason and argument, not invective or direct personal attack.

Our system is based off the Greek and Romans. They came thousands of years before our founding fathers. How could they trust them when they were in an age without guns, modern bows and where armor was still used. My point isn't that we shouldn't change things, but that many of the things they did was through them seeing what happened in the past and realizing it would happen again. The only things they didnt account for was a lack of Darwinism (the lack of the incompetent ceasing to exist and not producing, destroys the human race. It sounds cruel, but its true) and the stupidity of the American people. I'm not talking about education, I'm talking about work ethic, common sense, and general knowledge.

I believe our system needs modifying to account for this. How, we will think of, but first, more need to realize the problem.

I won't use this thread to post too many ideas that aren't my own, or at least put into my own words, but I just saw this and it resonates with me.

Yep Me and ol Calvin go waaaaay back, He made some good points but he never could take a good picture. Always looked mad, and not in a crazy kinda way ether.

madtothebone1 wrote: I may put a smile on some faces...its similar to the whole outdated debate...here in the uk we have certain laws which, for the most part get changed to suit....then there are those which have not changed at all, a couple of them are listed below.....enjoy.

It is against the law (prisonable offence) to use any wheeled carriage, motorised or otherwise on a footpath/walkway
(This technically includes wheelchairs and babys prams)

In a couple of cities of historical signfigance (I believe york amongst others) if a person from another land arrives on horseback after a certain time of day (this was a sign of a knight) he is allowed to be shot with a longbow!

In scottish fishing towns it is customary for a man who has proposed to his love...to be paraded through the streets in a horse and cart and have fish guts and fish heads thrown at him for good luck!

All land must be left to the eldest son.

Divorces are outlawed.

Since 1313, MPs are not allowed to don armor in Parliament.

Those wishing to purchase a television must also buy a license.

No cows may be driven down the roadway between 10 AM and 7 PM unless there is prior approval from the Commissioner of Police.

It is illegal for a woman to be topless in publicexcept as a clerk in a tropical fish store

.It is illegal for two adult men to have sex in the same house as a third person.

If a steam locomotive is driven on roads, a man must walk in front of the vehicle with a red flag during the day and a red lantern at night to warn passersby.

Any person found breaking a boiled egg at the sharp end will be sentenced to 24 hours in the village stocks (enacted by Edward VI).

All steam locomotives are limited to 4mph on roads.

Excluding Sundays, it is perfectly legal to shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow.

Anal sex is prohibited.

During his reign, Oliver Cromwell banned the eating of mince pies on Christmas day, as they were insufficiently Puritan.

Chelsea Pensioners may not be impersonated

One may not “blemish the peace”.

A bed may not be hung out of a window.

Yes these are real laws that still exist!

I hope you had a good giggle.

Wow. Nice place to practice my archery skills!

Jacklpe wrote: I won't use this thread to post too many ideas that aren't my own, or at least put into my own words, but I just saw this and it resonates with me.

I just received tax note from Traffic safety agency. Next year I pay 700$ carbon tax for not driving, but owning a car. WOW! I feel much safer now! Diesel costs 9,7$/gallon with 75% taxes on it. Half of the price of new car is taxes.

Now Jorma Ollila (member of the Steering Committee at the Bilderberg Group, surprised?) wants us to start taxing driven distance. And that’s why every car in Finland (and later in European Soviet Union) must have gps-tracking device on it in few years. If you ask from me, I think we should stick those gps-devices in Ollilas bum hole.

Jacklpe, do you mind if I give you your 2000th thank you?

Take a horse !

onsekone wrote:

Jacklpe wrote: I won't use this thread to post too many ideas that aren't my own, or at least put into my own words, but I just saw this and it resonates with me.

I just received tax note from Traffic safety agency. Next year I pay 700$ carbon tax for not driving, but owning a car. WOW! I feel much safer now! Diesel costs 9,7$/gallon with 75% taxes on it. Half of the price of new car is taxes.

Now Jorma Ollila (member of the Steering Committee at the Bilderberg Group, surprised?) wants us to start taxing driven distance. And that’s why every car in Finland (and later in European Soviet Union) must have gps-tracking device on it in few years. If you ask from me, I think we should stick those gps-devices to Ollilas bum hole.

Jacklpe, do you mind if I give you your 2000th thank you?

Thank you for the 2000th thank you!

Onsekone. You are living with so many of the things that I believe a certain segment of our politicians and citizens wish to have imposed on us. If we just let them run everything and give them all our money... Blah blah blah.

Thank you so much for sharing, and confirming (at least to me) just how ludicrous so many of the policies are. I'm sad that you have to live it, but I'm thankful that we're not there yet.

Onsekone will always survive !

No worry : he is a courageous fighter (no lie in this !), he has a gun, he makes pizza moose and with the antlers can make fork, knife and plate.

And there are some caverns still free here.

We all live like that in "Soviet" Europe !

But not worry we will never export this (we just export Dogfight the game !)

Ps : pizza moose makes me hungry !, but i think i would do like my dog, eat the moose and leave pizza.

Congrats for your Independance (Yester) Day.

Jacklpe wrote: Onsekone. You are living with so many of the things that I believe a certain segment if our politicians and society wish to have imposed on us. If we just let them run everything and give them all our money... Blah blah blah.

Thank you so much for sharing, and confirming (at least to me) just how ludicrous so many of the policies are. I'm sad that you have to live it, but I'm thankful that we're not there yet.

It can't get any worse, can it?

onsekone wrote:

Jacklpe wrote: Onsekone. You are living with so many of the things that I believe a certain segment if our politicians and society wish to have imposed on us. If we just let them run everything and give them all our money... Blah blah blah.

Thank you so much for sharing, and confirming (at least to me) just how ludicrous so many of the policies are. I'm sad that you have to live it, but I'm thankful that we're not there yet.

It can't get any worse, can it?

Happy end :

Woopsy, are you saying that sometimes if we wanna be happy, we gotta get raped? If that was the case, I should be a clown by now.

Speaking of, this thread has been pretty cool. I think I'm going to have to listen to the people who are paid millions to get me mad (talk radio hosts) so that I can get some more ammunition for the cannon... I'm not particularly angry about anything at the moment. I think I'm just numb to it all now. Rush and Hannity make a ton of money just so they can get me mad about something. Maybe I need to listen so they can do their jobs. (Actually I liked Boortz, but he went and retired on me, so now I have no one to listen to)

AtharvBhat wrote: HERE IS WHAT I BELIEVE ABOUT GOD

I personally dont believe in god.

This whole universe WAS A COINCIDENCE !

Here is an intresting fact : life on earth wouldnt be possible if, during creation of the universe, the quantities of elements like hydrogen was a bit more or a bit less.

PAUL WALKER DIED YESTERDAY
The fact that he was the lead actor in fast & furious and that he died in a car accident is JUST A COINCIDENCE
ISNT IT IRONIC !!

i'd like to back my statement by one question .

IF THERE IS SOMEONE [ GOD ] WHO CREATED THIS BEAUTIFUL UNIVERSE ........................... THEN WHO CREATED HIM ?



EDIT :- HERE ARE SOME AMAZING COINCIDENCES :
listverse.com/2007/11/12/top-15-amazing-coincidences/

Sorry I had to get back on this on but I as well disagree with rule 5 on no discussing religion.

I can see why people say there is no god and that it is silly to even have religion but really if we did not have religion things could be some what crazy or in a sense much worse than they already are. But before I get into that I would like to address Atharv's last statement. You ask if there is a god who created him. That is a tough question and no one can really answer it but the same thing accrues in the world of science on where the universe comes from. Yes they say it all came from the big bang when some object the size of an atom suddenly decided to explode and form this large amazing universe we have today. I won't disagree with that stamens rather but really who and how did that object the size of an atom that exploded forming our universe come from who made it. The thing is both science and religion get stumped on pretty much the same thing. For all we know the big bang could have created god or god created the big bang. Humanity can't comprehend things beyond those points as of now and won't for a good while into the future.

Like wise a statement I like to say "A man of Religion that denies the sciences is a fool and the Scientist the Denies Religion is just as big a fool".

Why I say this is because the Sciences and Religion are intertwined although out the religious books. Also because the friends I have that are religious and say science is a lie are complete idiots because the things they say are a lie are also mentioned in the bible but just indirectly through a story. The friends I have that don't believe in religion but in the sciences and won't hear a word of what religion says also look like fools for practically the same reason. They will say everything in the bible is a lie and that science is the only thing but science and both the bible say that people and every living thing on earth was made from the earths soil. Science goes around and says the same thing except it says god had no helping hand in it and that some how that organic material made from the big bang which eventually created earth through material gathering by gravitational pull came alive as cells eventually evolving into what is today modern man. Both creation stories are pretty much true. If you read the books in the bible on the creation of earth and its distraction you will notice it is pretty much the same story scientist tell us today but its just telling it in a way people a couple thousand years ago up to pretty much 100 years ago would under stand.

Religion is not useless or something that is untrue some times the people following the religion don't always see the message of it. Religion is written in a way that reminds me of parents trying to teach children something complicated in a way that they would understand.

Now back to what I mentioned at the very start. If there was not religion things would be very crazy and chaos would probably own the world. Religion was the first thing to really go and create laws and moral law. Religion has been used through out history to teach people moral law. Like don't take what is not yours and to treat your neighbor as you would treat your self type of things. Religion also gave people something to hope for. If a natural disaster comes people can go and say well god has my back and will help me through this. They will start to think in a positive way rather than a negative way and will push through the hard times willingly. In the same situation if they though there was no god to help them and that they where on their own they might just to heck with this and give up and die. That would not always happen but it would happen more often. Religion has had a way of keep people in line and keeping them from going mad and turning into animals doing what ever they want. Religion has also helped people out in wars. They get that sense where I don't care if I die because god will take care of me so I can take care of my buddy that fights next to me. When things are all but lost the Religious people will look up to there god and just for some reason they will keep going keep fighting. Some times because of this they have even turned things around in there favor.

Most people that truly follow and believe in there religion are some the kindest and most moral people out there. Yes there are atheist out there that are very moral and do good things. I by all means and not trying to stereotype anyone. Religion just gives you more reason to follow your morals and follow the law and to respect others. You want see a true christian for instance at strip club or at a prostitute's house. Anyone that does that and claims they are a christian are lying. They may believe in god but they don't believe in the scriptures in their holy book or don't care enough to read read them and follow them.

The biggest criticism I can see with religion now days is the misinterpretation of them and people saying they are that religion while not following it.

I used Christianity in this because it is the religion I am the most familiar with.

Jacklpe wrote: Woopsy, are you saying that sometimes if we wanna be happy, we gotta get raped? If that was the case, I should be a clown by now.

Speaking of, this thread has been pretty cool. I think I'm going to have to listen to the people who are paid millions to get me mad (talk radio hosts) so that I can get some more ammunition for the cannon... I'm not particularly angry about anything at the moment. I think I'm just numb to it all now. Rush and Hannity make a ton of money just so they can get me mad about something. Maybe I need to listen so they can do their jobs. (Actually I liked Boortz, but he went and retired on me, so now I have no one to listen to)

Sorry Jack i must recognize that i do not know a lot about criminality between farmhouse's animals.

I disagree with that beef, the back one, and i really hope that he was better to eat than to watch.

New rule: Don't send me a million dollars!

With that said, I love the post Sky. Some I agree with, some I don't, and some I'm not sure about. I know that faith involves believing things that don't always give you much of a reason to believe in them. I have my reasons for mine, but I'll save that for the day that I start a dogfight church to go with my bar and my new think tank.

CAUTION. A LITTLE BIT OF CHRISTIAN DISCUSSION AHEAD. IF YOU PLAN ON GETTING OFFENDED, JUST STOP READING NOW!!!

As far as Christians in cathouses, I don't know man. Remember that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Now if you accept the gift and put your life on the right track, you still in no way are ever going to completely leave it behind. I know that in JamesHebrews, the bible says that continuing to sin is like nailing Jesus to the cross all over again (obviously paraphrasing here), but I don't know how to avoid it either. There is no magic elixir that is going to somehow make you perfect. That, if it's going to happen, is going to happen in the afterlife. I truly believe that a Christian just has to take one day at a time, and try to make the best decsions that they can based on the situations they encounter. Sometimes you are going to get it right, and sometimes, because you are a human being who is wired to make bad decisions, you are going to screw up miserably. If there was some way that you as a human could say or do the right things to get into heaven, then what good would the life and death of Jesus be? It's a gift, free to those who choose to accept it. Nothing more, nothing less. So, self righteousness from a Christian, in my opinion, shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation. It's a lot more like "hey dude, I know we can't ever seem to get it right, but this guy over here says he'll take us as we are anyway."

Alright. I'm sure this post is gonna probably get me some flack from the Christians, the Christian haters, and the well meaning shut up about it types too. I've got big shoulders though, so I can take it.

Sermon over.
How's that for breaking my own rules?

Jacklpe wrote: New rule: Don't send me a million dollars!

With that said, I love the post Sky. Some I agree with, some I don't, and some I'm not sure about. I know that faith involves believing things that don't always give you much of a reason to believe in them. I have my reasons for mine, but I'll save that for the day that I start a dogfight church to go with my bar and my new think tank.

CAUTION. A LITTLE BIT OF CHRISTIAN DISCUSSION AHEAD. IF YOU PLAN ON GETTING OFFENDED, JUST STOP READING NOW!!!

As far as Christians in cathouses, I don't know man. Remember that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Now if you accept the gift and put your life on the right track, you still in no way are ever going to completely leave it behind. I know that in James, the bible says that continuing to sin is like nailing Jesus to the cross all over again (obviously paraphrasing here), but I don't know how to avoid it either. There is no magic elixir that is going to somehow make you perfect. That, if it's going to happen, is going to happen in the afterlife. I truly believe that a Christian just has to take one day at a time, and try to make the best decsions that they can based on the situations they encounter. Sometimes you are going to get it right, and sometimes, because you are a human being who is wired to make bad decisions, you are going to screw up miserably. If there was some way that you as a human could say or do the right things to get into heaven, then what good would the life and death of Jesus be? It's a gift, free to those who choose to accept it. Nothing more, nothing less. So, self righteousness from a Christian, in my opinion, shows a complete misunderstanding of the situation. It's a lot more like "hey dude, I know we can't ever seem to get it right, but this guy over here says he'll take us as we are anyway."

Alright. I'm sure this post is gonna probably get me some flack from the Christians, the Christian haters, and the well meaning shut up about it types too. I've got big shoulders though, so I can take it.

Sermon over.
How's that for breaking my own rules?

No problem if you broke rule 5-1, I have already break rule 5-2 about the sexuality of farmhouse's animals.

So i just made silence during your sermon.

Skydavis1 wrote:

AtharvBhat wrote: HERE IS WHAT I BELIEVE ABOUT GOD

I personally dont believe in god.

This whole universe WAS A COINCIDENCE !

Here is an intresting fact : life on earth wouldnt be possible if, during creation of the universe, the quantities of elements like hydrogen was a bit more or a bit less.

PAUL WALKER DIED YESTERDAY
The fact that he was the lead actor in fast & furious and that he died in a car accident is JUST A COINCIDENCE
ISNT IT IRONIC !!

i'd like to back my statement by one question .

IF THERE IS SOMEONE [ GOD ] WHO CREATED THIS BEAUTIFUL UNIVERSE ........................... THEN WHO CREATED HIM ?



EDIT :- HERE ARE SOME AMAZING COINCIDENCES :
listverse.com/2007/11/12/top-15-amazing-coincidences/

Sorry I had to get back on this on but I as well disagree with rule 5 on no discussing religion.

I can see why people say there is no god and that it is silly to even have religion but really if we did not have religion things could be some what crazy or in a sense much worse than they already are. But before I get into that I would like to address Atharv's last statement. You ask if there is a god who created him. That is a tough question and no one can really answer it but the same thing accrues in the world of science on where the universe comes from. Yes they say it all came from the big bang when some object the size of an atom suddenly decided to explode and form this large amazing universe we have today. I won't disagree with that stamens rather but really who and how did that object the size of an atom that exploded forming our universe come from who made it. The thing is both science and religion get stumped on pretty much the same thing. For all we know the big bang could have created god or god created the big bang. Humanity can't comprehend things beyond those points as of now and won't for a good while into the future.

Like wise a statement I like to say "A man of Religion that denies the sciences is a fool and the Scientist the Denies Religion is just as big a fool".

Why I say this is because the Sciences and Religion are intertwined although out the religious books. Also because the friends I have that are religious and say science is a lie are complete idiots because the things they say are a lie are also mentioned in the bible but just indirectly through a story. The friends I have that don't believe in religion but in the sciences and won't hear a word of what religion says also look like fools for practically the same reason. They will say everything in the bible is a lie and that science is the only thing but science and both the bible say that people and every living thing on earth was made from the earths soil. Science goes around and says the same thing except it says god had no helping hand in it and that some how that organic material made from the big bang which eventually created earth through material gathering by gravitational pull came alive as cells eventually evolving into what is today modern man. Both creation stories are pretty much true. If you read the books in the bible on the creation of earth and its distraction you will notice it is pretty much the same story scientist tell us today but its just telling it in a way people a couple thousand years ago up to pretty much 100 years ago would under stand.

Religion is not useless or something that is untrue some times the people following the religion don't always see the message of it. Religion is written in a way that reminds me of parents trying to teach children something complicated in a way that they would understand.

Now back to what I mentioned at the very start. If there was not religion things would be very crazy and chaos would probably own the world. Religion was the first thing to really go and create laws and moral law. Religion has been used through out history to teach people moral law. Like don't take what is not yours and to treat your neighbor as you would treat your self type of things. Religion also gave people something to hope for. If a natural disaster comes people can go and say well god has my back and will help me through this. They will start to think in a positive way rather than a negative way and will push through the hard times willingly. In the same situation if they though there was no god to help them and that they where on their own they might just to heck with this and give up and die. That would not always happen but it would happen more often. Religion has had a way of keep people in line and keeping them from going mad and turning into animals doing what ever they want. Religion has also helped people out in wars. They get that sense where I don't care if I die because god will take care of me so I can take care of my buddy that fights next to me. When things are all but lost the Religious people will look up to there god and just for some reason they will keep going keep fighting. Some times because of this they have even turned things around in there favor.

Most people that truly follow and believe in there religion are some the kindest and most moral people out there. Yes there are atheist out there that are very moral and do good things. I by all means and not trying to stereotype anyone. Religion just gives you more reason to follow your morals and follow the law and to respect others. You want see a true christian for instance at strip club or at a prostitute's house. Anyone that does that and claims they are a christian are lying. They may believe in god but they don't believe in the scriptures in their holy book or don't care enough to read read them and follow them.

The biggest criticism I can see with religion now days is the misinterpretation of them and people saying they are that religion while not following it.

I used Christianity in this because it is the religion I am the most familiar with.

It is a use of religion highly respectable, when faith gives the courage to always fight and help the others.

I am not a religious man, but sometimes i would like to have the faith.

I know that between the best people i meet, faith is helping them to be better and do great things.

Warning, christian propaganda ahead.

Skydavis, there are differences between religions and in religion – science relations. It is not coincidence that Christianity (and Judaism, but Christianity is build on Judaism) is only religion that has made sound surface for science and technology to develop. Romans could do some pretty impressive infrastructure and South-American Indians had some amazing mathematic skills but besides that, without the influence of Christianity, the world would be crappy place to live.

To be more accurate, Christian worldview and understanding of the value of every human has driven western civilization to develop technology, which makes life easier for poor section of population. Egyptians made some nice pyramids for bones of dead kings, but they sure did not make wheelbarrows for slaves to help build those pyramids faster.

Monasteries were first places, where monks had time to study and develop technical innovations that were later used in agriculture and other areas of life. If you remove the gearbox of your car, you will see the flywheel. Did you know that first document about flywheel (De divers artibus) is written by Benedictine monk Theophilus in 1122? That time there were no scientists, so monks had to do their job as well…

Jacklpe, I believe the verse you pointed is in Hebrews. I highlight a couple of words to make my point.

Some English versions (Like New International Version) cannot get this right. This one is King James.

“Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”

“For” on verse 4 points to what writer has said before. He talks about foundation of faith. If you have foundation on your house, you don’t want to make another foundation. Otherwise you’ll get crappy house. Same is with Christianity. Hebrews were in temptation to turn away from Christ and start following angels and so making new foundation on their faith.

Your right about continuing in sin. That’s what we do. “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” Galatians say:

“Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Fun thing about Greece is that they have much better present continuous that we have in Finnish or English. So that “practice” on end is to be understood like continuous, decided, purposeful practicing of any of the sins listed above. Making mistakes is human and God knows who we are and what we do. That’s why God send his Son to buy us free. But I'm sure he appreciates all the cooperation we can show.

That would be the verse. Sounds like I need to do some brushing up b4 getting too preachy. I'm definitely not the poster child for the cause...

I just want to say. I support what you all have said here...and all of you have said what I have said over the many months on this subject as well...

If I may let me add this.RELIGIOUS WARNING LIKE JACKLPE SAID and ONSEKONE and SkyDavis as well.and as support for all who have posted lately as well.

"If My people which are called by My name shall humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and heal their land."
2 Chronicles 7:14

Jacklpe...speaking for myself and I'm sure for others....woah I'm a sinner we all are...may we all repent and turn away...

More importantly than even the dealing with our sin...its the relationship with God thats more important...."....and there is a friend who sticks closer than any brother." Proverbs 18:24b

.Onsekone and Jacklpe said it perfectly and I echo their comments.

Titus:...I'm real proud of you lately on this thread....you mentioned you would like that faith at times...just stay humble, seeking and you may, I repeat, may be surprised...

Religious warning for all those that have no care at all.


I feel I may have confused you guys on what I meant when I said you will rarely see a true Christian doing things that are un moral or sinful. I stated it that way because in Christianity we have a thing called rebuking. You all probably have heard of it. Rebuking is when you see a member of the christian church repeatedly sining over and over on the same thing or very similar things you go up to them and say hey man you need to stop this. If they say ok and then keep doing it you then tell them again. If this goes on for a good while or for several times more and they just keep doing that same sinful thing over and over not even listening to what you are telling them then you are to no longer consider them part of the church and just leave them be. One of the major problems going on in Christianity is people rebuking people out side of the church which you are not supposed to do. That does not mean you can't try and get them in the church but going up to them and saying hey everything you do in your life is sin, will not go fare in trying to get them to convert over to be a christian.

Matthew 18:15 - 17

“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.


When they say brother it means a member of your church.

By Gentile and Tax collector they are saying they are no longer part of the church. Just for those of you that may be curious.


Yes onsekone I agree with you there are big differences between each realign but they all have major similarities as well. I am not saying they all lead down and mean the same thing. But most of them share very very similar concepts, creation stores, and ends of time along with a few other things. But they all twist off from each other because of interpretation of events. People also had travels all over the world and settled on every continent not very long after creation. People got spread out and did not hear what was going on in the holy lands. People in North America at the time sure had no clue what had been happening in the holy lands till Europeans came over. Most stories where told by word of mouth and we all know how that goes. After it is told by several people it starts to get twisted around and by the time it reaches some other group and if they believe in anything they hear they got it all wrong and if they create a religion around it will sure be a different story than the original.

Anyway sorry about getting carried away on my thoughts of why most religions are very different form each other and also very very similar. A good example is the Mayans. There creation story was was god created giant men out of large rocks but then decide they where dumb so he smashed them into tiny bits and made smaller people who where smarter out of sand and gravel from the boulders that made the giant men.

It is Similar to the Christian creation story just not as detailed and the Christian one does not mention there being giants before man. But the Holy bible does mention giants more than once in it. Both religions recognize there where people of abnormal size walking around.

As a man of science who keeps his religion, I find myself on both sides with this one.

Without religion, there wouldn't have been the crusades, 9/11 (maybe), holocaust, and many other genocidal acts throughout history in the name of religion, on the other hand, here wouldn't be he not-so-popular positive influences it has on people. People who are religious and try to say the evolution isn't true, and the Big Bang didnt happen, are simply stubborn and denying facts.

On the other hand, people of science who say religion is bad, ignore the amazing things that happen because of people's faith in it. My belief is that the singularity has always existed, and that God is omnipresent as the singularity.

It easy to bash organized religion. I often hear people say, I love God but hate religion. We have to be careful with that. Christ loves the church as a wife (Ephesians 5). Where religion is turning people off (especially in the US) is with its judgmental approach. Christ destroyed the Pharisee's system where priests were the elite rulers lording over people's lives. Christ put the focus squarely on introspection:

Matthew 7
1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. 6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

Sometimes we lose our way and accuse others, but what can we expect when the goal is perfection? There have been several studies in the field of Social Psychology on charity and its connection with organized religion. The studies continually show that people who regularly attend religious services (any faith) are more charitable. Thus, there is a direct tie in with going to church, mosque, synagogue, etc... and actually doing something to help your fellow man.

As far as the fundamental Christian's rejection of science, it really is no different than any other fundamentalist faith. The thing with God and science is that God does not want to be proven. God insists that you come only on the strength of faith. The relationship would be cheapened if it became factually proven. Science cannot prove the existence of God, but it cannot disprove it either. Shouldn't that count for something in the debate? At any rate, I am going to refocus on the Redwood tree growing out of my eye. Maybe when I get myself perfected, I will be able to worry about how someone else chooses to live their life.

Sky? We must bow to those who are tall (say 7ft+) ????.....I did often wonder about the true identity of micheal jordan....afterall, he was inside a cartoon movie....now thats clever!

MaDtotheMoM wrote: Sky? We must bow to those who are tall (say 7ft+) ????.....I did often wonder about the true identity of micheal jordan....afterall, he was inside a cartoon movie....now thats clever!

Lol mad. No need to bow to tall people their heads are already above ours or us short people.

This is weirdest non religious thread I've ever seen.

When I became a christian, I joined a church that had some hardcore legalistic, religious brothers on it. They welcomed me with open arms and soon started to make me a copy of themselves. In few months I had become a bible wielding T-rex, who was ready to tear apart anybody less perfect than myself. That was, before I faced the enemy I could not win. One morning he was staring at me from my bathroom mirror. What Paul writes in Romans, was written to me:

For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwells no good thing. For desire is present with me, but I don't find it doing that which is good. For the good which I desire, I don't do; but the evil which I don't desire, that I practice.

My T-rex days were irrevocably past.

About rebuking. Reboking is good, but it must be done right. As Skydavis pointed, it is in Matthew 18. In Bible only the worst of the worst sins lead to excommunication. Just to mention a couple of cases, one is in Korinth, where man has his father’s wife. That kind of “modern family” was unheard of even among gentiles. Then in 1. Tim Hymenaeus and Alexander ”made a shipwreck concerning the faith” and were thrown out of church.

How I have understood “let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector” is that it does not mean excommunication. We don’t throw gentiles out of church, we try to get them in. Right? So to me it means that I still show love and respect to that individual, but I’m not going to have cooperation in any spiritual ministry. There are things that clearly are sins according to Bible and then there are things that are sins in some churches but not in others. I think we should not go rebuking someone for smoking, using alcohol(the way it is meant to be used) or doing lotto. We should be enjoying our lives, not living in monasteries. So use your Christian freedom and let other use theirs.

Removing the beam or redwood from own eye is good idea, but after it is gone, it’s time to move on. Our faith is full of paradoxes and one of them is, if I don’t want to get involved on my brothers sin, I’ll get involved.

Ezekiel 33:8 “When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die, and thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way; that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood will I require at thy hand.”

Ezekiel 3:20 “And in the turning back of the righteous from his righteousness, and he hath done perversity, and I have put a stumbling-block before him, he dieth; because thou hast not warned him, in his sin he dieth, and not remembered is his righteousness that he hath done, and his blood from thy hand I require.”

Leviticus 19:17 'You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him”

But when you are rebuking, remember that love to your brother is the only reason you are doing it. “Better is open reproof than hidden love.” And remember who you are talking to. 1. Tim 5:1-2 “Rebuke not an elder, but exhort him as a father; the younger men as brethren: the elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, in all purity.”

There are some people that are not to be rebuked. Proverbs 9:8“Don't reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you. Reprove a wise man, and he will love you.”

Anyway. Chap said it well.

doughens wrote: More importantly than even the dealing with our sin...its the relationship with God thats more important.

If there’s trouble in relationship, there is trouble with sin. Fix the first one and the other will be fixed as well.

Hey Titus. Do you know this artist?