Martin, is this in reference to Ronnie?...Hes the one who used that term....

M4rtin wrote: I think a lot of people forget what we did before we had moderators. We used the blacklist and kept an eye out for one another. We also taught(Tasked) those that were on that list. So I wish you would not compare Task to a vigilante group or suggest as such. We did the same thing as Task before we had moderators.

Sorry WTG, I did not mean to hijack this thread.

What Just Manfred said makes absolute sense and would make a world of difference if Joaquin could implement those changes. I nominate Manfred for DogFight Law Maker! Okay I am getting a little carried away, but in all sincerity, he has the knowledge, the experience and the suggestions that are fair to get this game moving forward. Okay so maybe not law, but his suggestions are Just, fair and certainly makes a lot of sense.

Maybe we can implement that list as part of the petition to help our mods???

Thats interesting M4rtin, and a relevant piece of DF history.

I hope this petition succeeds. TASK will become obsolete and players will once again have satisfying justice at their fingertips without having to risk their own right to play.

Let us focus on restoring the Blacklist to its former effectiveness and not speak of TASK unless it's terribly relevant.

I know youre tempted to retort, Swop, but rest; your opinions on TASK are well known and re-noted.

Thanks

tell that to Ronnie who mentioned it in the first place.....not a fan of double standards

Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that Manfred.

doughens wrote: tell that to Ronnie who mentioned it in the first place.....not a fan of double standards

Ok Swop, i asked you politely in several pm's to drop it.

There is no double standard here. Ronnie mentioned TASK once in one sentance of a long and thoughtfull post.

U jumped at the chance to push your anti Task agenda and qouted him not once, not twice, but three times about it!

You may notice you got zero thankyous for your last four posts on this thread.

People heard you! They get it! You dont like task!!

Thank you Ronnie and Martin for your one-time, relevent mentions of Task!

Swop-- find a different thread to redundantly gripe about task, please!

Hey guys at the risk of sounding like a broken record I'd like to repost my comment from last night about a punishment squad for those who break the code of conduct on df. First though, I'd like to say thank you to those who thanked me for that post. I'm putting it back out there because i want to get some opinions from everyone as to the viability and possible effectiveness of it. For those who didn't see my original post about it, the idea was trial by jury with a mod as the judge. If found guilty a pilot losses his/her ability to purchase new planes and is placed in a squad equipped only with aircos until they serve their sentence. I came up with this idea both from a movie and based on my own experience of being punished by m.o.m. for not showing them the respect they rightfully deserved. It was a hard lesson for me to learn, and is a lesson I'm reminded of every time i look at my kill ratio. Personally, as someone who personally takes a great deal of pride in my kill ratio, and also as someone who prefers to fly the d.v and se5a, i believe such an approach would be highly effective against those used to flying anything but an Airco. I believe that while it wouldn't necessarily work for everyone,.it would have the desired effect for the most part, allowing mods to more easily identify those players with discipline issues and hopefully prevent some of the other problems that have been mentioned about the task list and blacklist. Please guys, i just want to know what you think of this idea. I won't mention it again unless it catches on. Thanks guys.

[WS]HD wrote: Hey guys at the risk of sounding like a broken record I'd like to repost my comment from last night about a punishment squad for those who break the code of conduct on df. First though, I'd like to say thank you to those who thanked me for that post. I'm putting it back out there because i want to get some opinions from everyone as to the viability and possible effectiveness of it. For those who didn't see my original post about it, the idea was trial by jury with a mod as the judge. If found guilty a pilot losses his/her ability to purchase new planes and is placed in a squad equipped only with aircos until they serve their sentence. I came up with this idea both from a movie and based on my own experience of being punished by m.o.m. for not showing them the respect they rightfully deserved. It was a hard lesson for me to learn, and is a lesson I'm reminded of every time i look at my kill ratio. Personally, as someone who personally takes a great deal of pride in my kill ratio, and also as someone who prefers to fly the d.v and se5a, i believe such an approach would be highly effective against those used to flying anything but an Airco. I believe that while it wouldn't necessarily work for everyone,.it would have the desired effect for the most part, allowing mods to more easily identify those players with discipline issues and hopefully prevent some of the other problems that have been mentioned about the task list and blacklist. Please guys, i just want to know what you think of this idea. I won't mention it again unless it catches on. Thanks guys.

Interesting ideas, no doubt.

I like the idea of a probationary punishment. Give them a bright yellow or red plane with extra large hit zones. Unfortunately it would be a lot more work for Zup than adjusting the existing system.

But please read Manfreds long post at the end of page two to see what is was like before. The system worked pretty well and instead of changing things too much, this petition thread is about returning things to the state described in detail by Manfred.

For now we need to see if Zup is willing to work on this. If he says so, im sure there will be much discussion regarding how.

Thank you WTG, that's what i was looking for. I agree that something needs to be done about the behavior in chat and in game. I've been religiously following this thread since you started it at the cost of flying bc while i haven't been playing as long as most of you, I've noticed the increase in bad behavior in just the few short months that I've been playing. Its gotten so bad that a few weeks ago i considered leaving the game because of it. Nothing does more to drive people away than the disrespectful actions of a few bad apples. This is my refuge from the stress of my job and my home life, and lets me live out a dream that I'll never be able to achieve because of a medical condition that prevents me from flying for real, let alone as a combat aviator. The one person who has yet to weigh in on this topic is Zup. I know that he's a busy man but does anyone know him personally? If so could that person maybe ask him to post what he thinks or what his solution could be? I'm just as interested to hear what he has to say since this is his baby. I'm sure it must drive him bonkers that he never gets to enjoy what he's created because we all hound him for new features and bug fixes. Perhaps more of us (those with the equipment and expertise) could lend a helping hand to reduce his work load. Sorry, I'm rambling and getting way off topic. I'll stop now

[WS]HD wrote: Thank you WTG, that's what i was looking for. I agree that something needs to be done about the behavior in chat and in game. I've been religiously following this thread since you started it at the cost of flying bc while i haven't been playing as long as most of you, I've noticed the increase in bad behavior in just the few short months that I've been playing. Its gotten so bad that a few weeks ago i considered leaving the game because of it. Nothing does more to drive people away than the disrespectful actions of a few bad apples. This is my refuge from the stress of my job and my home life, and lets me live out a dream that I'll never be able to achieve because of a medical condition that prevents me from flying for real, let alone as a combat aviator. The one person who has yet to weigh in on this topic is Zup. I know that he's a busy man but does anyone know him personally? If so could that person maybe ask him to post what he thinks or what his solution could be? I'm just as interested to hear what he has to say since this is his baby. I'm sure it must drive him bonkers that he never gets to enjoy what he's created because we all hound him for new features and bug fixes. Perhaps more of us (those with the equipment and expertise) could lend a helping hand to reduce his work load. Sorry, I'm rambling and getting way off topic. I'll stop now

Its hard to say when or if Zup will read this.

He did mention recently he has been programming non-stop and was looking forward to a break going into December.

It's likely one of the global mods who signed will mention it when they get a chance.

There are issues such as planes spawning on wrong ships in btc and other Win8 problems that he's juggling, and he also recently asked and got tons of feedback regarding what additions/changes should be made to Dogfight.

I hope he gets some well deserved time off. This thread will be waiting if he's not already storming up a solution for us.

HD, regarding your flying dreams: are you a licensed driver? There is a new category of Pilot's license that requires no FAA medical exam, called Sport Pilot. If you are fit enough to drive a car, you can get your sport pilot's license and fly a growing number of small aircraft. Most of the planes categorised as LSA (light sport aircraft) are roughly the size and performance of a cessna 150.

I should mention you cannot due this if youve failed an FAA med exam in the past or lost your medical for health reasons.

Don't give up on flying if possible, it's a great dream to hold on to!

I did my sim training and part 141 ground school at metro state in denver. Im epileptic. It was non existent prior to a softball injury my sophomore year. I caught a 80 mph softball with my mouth. While it didnt knock me out the resulting concussion triggered my seizures again which i had previously grown out of. They went from petty mal seizures to borderline gran mal seizures. As a god fearing man and a student of aviation i know that even in a sport plane, a seizure at the wrong time could get innocent people killed. For this reason i stopped trying to get my wings, prefering instead to play games like df where a seizure wont kill an innocent. I have enough real blood on my hands to not add innocent blood to it. But thank you for your kind words

Hyper,

It may have felt like punishment, but it was merely an acceptance of your challenge. You're well on your way to be a respected member of the community. I'm glad you stuck it out and stayed, personally.

I like your idea, but as WTG said it would mean (probably) a ton of programming and therefore more work for Z. I don't believe anyone wants that. The previous system, from the players' point of view, worked. I can't imagine the BS puts up with from everyone, not just banned players. The fact that Z even puts an actual email address out to the public is remarkable and is appreciated. I'm not sur if this thread will make a difference or not, but I hope it does.

I think longer bans and mutes are appropriate. I think immunity to hangar from friendly bomb/shells takes the "teeth" away from the TKers. The vast majority would never need to be reported and could be handled with the cooperative reinforcement from the players present. Give the reds a pass and let them run him out of the game if diplomacy fails.

Someone blurting an occasional swear word doesn't need to be reported. Unless you're only watching a church channel on TV, you're going to hear a lot worse out of most cartoons. The guys that tells me he's going to treat my mama like a prison cell mate in vivid detail needs to be nuked.... Swiftly and severely. A screen shot to any mod of such should result in immediate (meaning as soon as the mod sees it, not an expectation that a mod is sitting by and waiting for my report) and meaningful action. For these people, no amount of player performed persuasion is effective. These kind of people do what they do to get a reaction. The only effective way to get their attention is moderation. Give them the 2 day mute or ban. When they com back doing it again allow for a one week ban. If that doesn't work, I say ban em til they publicly declare their reform on the forum or through private communication with a Mod. Any further offense should mean a permaban. This is my ideal world of DF moderation

Until we see and improvement in moderation capabilities, I now know what gets attention.... Emails to Z. I won't bother with any further reports on the BL or PMs to mods. I'll collect my screen shots and evidence and requests to change undesired behavior in a nice tidy package and email them directly to Z.... Often.

Below is a copy/paste of my recent post to Z on the moderators private site. I am posting this so everyone knows that Z is aware and monitoring this thread. He has a lot going on. Projects that have December deadlines. He has to prioritize his efforts and a revamp of the moderation is on the list, it's just not number one right now.


>> I'm sure you have seen the petition on the forum asking you to " give the mods their teeth back ". When I try to look at moderation from your point of view I understand that there needs to be limits. Bans and Mutes for indeterminate amounts of time could seem as a bit too much. With that being said I do have a suggestion or two on how to have more effective moderation.
>>
>> First- I think the playership has grown to the point that its time for more Global Moderators. There are many seasoned players that would do a good job.
>> Second- Have a way that moderators can monitor and act in the lower servers. Not play, something like an observation mode.
>> Third- Give moderators some choice on length of mutes and bans..hour, day, 3 days, and week. Longer than a week should be done only by you.
>> Finally- Have a way to track mutes and bans so that at least the mods can see what action has been taken by other mods.
>>
>> I know you are eternally busy, but I wanted to offer my opinions as food for thought.
>>
>> Thanks for all that you do
>>

J, thank you for the information, and I agree with what you have proposed.

Parrot, you just won my post of the year award. You are getting a promotion. I'm not sure to what, but nevertheless.

Lots of very good
and valid points made and some very worthy ideas.
I think we need to catch em early though and that means world chat and lower servers, like a Parrot said mods should go there in an observational capacity, give warnings and where required, mute or ban, making it clear to all others present what happened, this would teach them that they are under scrutiny and they can be punished.

The thing that galls me though is that many of these potty mouths in world chat for example, have not nor ever intend to purchase the game, when their free time runs out, they just create another account so they can carry on, I sit in world chat quite a lot just seeing what's going on, I've seen comments like why pay for the stupid f

---

game, I can just make another account, just one example of many. Put an end to that, you put an end to a lot the trash that finds its way into the game, forum and world chat

That's my two penny worth.

Excellent idea Mucker! Make world chat only chattable (that's my word. I claim it!) for paid customers. There's an incentive to buy and a consequence if you lose the "privilege"

Bingo.^

I've just noticed that my earlier post, mentioning TASK, set a couple of hares running. Apologies for that. It wasn't intended to be a swipe at it's members. I just think that improvements to the mod system would be a preferable course of action.

Signature
Red Baroness

When the "you have been banned for...." message comes up when these miscreants try roof back in it should include a statement that the only way back in is through the forum and that any appeals inappropriately sent to the game creator will result in another 24 hours.

Having well inforced rules and a clear way to get back in, and then maintain good standing will help. It's been proven in many adolescent group homes. Sure there will be some who.just don't get it. Good riddance.

McFate wrote: When the "you have been banned for...." message comes up when these miscreants try roof back in it should include a statement that the only way back in is through the forum and that any appeals inappropriately sent to the game creator will result in another 24 hours.

Having well inforced rules and a clear way to get back in, and then maintain good standing will help. It's been proven in many adolescent group homes. Sure there will be some who.just don't get it. Good riddance.

Absolutely! Unless it got changed in recent releases, the universal message "You have been banned for 5 minutes" is used by the game whether the player is autobanned or moderator banned, and probably is a huge cause for confusion among banned players. If Zup finds that many emails come to him over this confusion, then a selection between two messages based on ban source would solve a LOT. Autoban message = "You are a traitor and have been banned for 5 minutes". Moderator ban message = "You were banned by a moderator, please report to the forum" or more simply "You have been banned by a moderator."
M

Baroness, I love your banner. Can't decide what mine should be.

.O.G.

I won't waste breath arguing, Zup will do as Zup does, end of story.

Adding a name is as powerful (or non powerful as the case will be) as long winded posts.

End Off

#ManfredForPresident

An extension on Muck and Parrot's ideas that only paying customers be allowed on world chat: how about paying customers of a certain rank and above? This would force (a) skin in the game, and (b) some actual experience flying with others. Personally, I'd make it the same rank required to be on the Big Kids' server, but that may be too high. Just some level high enough to filter out the driveling trolls who ruin world chat.

Manfred

Manfred wrote: An extension on Muck and Parrot's ideas that only paying customers be allowed on world chat: how about paying customers of a certain rank and above? This would force (a) skin in the game, and (b) some actual experience flying with others. Personally, I'd make it the same rank required to be on the Big Kids' server, but that may be too high. Just some level high enough to filter out the driveling trolls who ruin world chat.

Manfred

Perfection !!!!!

No pay=No chat

Start at level 10

8 is when they hit high rank servers. Let them earn the chat function @ 10. They will appreciate it more and get a chance to see how every one else uses it. Level 10 would give them a little time in with the older players. Make it a privilege to be given and taken away.

add me to the signatories

Suxxor/Suxxxor

I am in full support!! i once posted on our mod forum about this and I do agree..I may be the most controversial of all the mods, but I do my best:-)

So how is this going so far?

Please tell me this didnt go unheard

Plus we hijacked the thread for other expansions. Back to Whose's original point: Who votes to restore the moderators' longer ban and mute capability?

Manfred wrote: Plus we hijacked the thread for other expansions. Back to Whose's original point: Who votes to restore the moderators' longer ban and mute capability?

MEE!!! Lol