Quick ethics question. Is getting way up high considered poor form? Like up so high you vanish from radar. I was grumbled at for doing this recently, and caught wind on the forum that the practice is perhaps frowned upon.
To me, it just seems like good tactics! Heck, if anyone here has glanced at Dicta Boelcke, #1 is 'Try to secure the upper hand before attacking...', with the advantages he was talking about being: speed, altitude, surprise, performance, and numerical superiority.
I'm currently in that awkward Level 11 phase where I'm in the 'big boy' games with all the hungry MORAFS and their superplanes, but I'm still in the non-upgraded first plane, because I'm desperately saving for that 75,000$ plane. In an ideal world, I'd go head-on or turn and burn, but in my situation I'm getting chopped up into MORAF stew 9 times out of 10, often when I'm outnumbered. Not fun at all. Bad for morale.
If I'm at a disadvantage when it comes to speed, performance and often numerical superiority, why would using Herr Boelcke's timeless advice to make up ground by securing a brief advantage by using surprise and altitude cause Dogfight players, especially experienced ones, to get all whiny? In any case, I long for the day when I don't have to resort to this tactic.
Cheers,
Spook.

Hi spooky think we've had a few games , good to see you here .
"Sneaking" is what most call it some cant stand it but it is a tactic and there is no rule against it,you just have to deal with complaints from some. Just try not to do it when your team has a numbers advantage and the complaints shouldn't be too bad. Good luck to you.

[M]COUCHY wrote: Hi spooky think we've had a few games , good to see you here .
"Sneaking" is what most call it some cant stand it but it is a tactic and there is no rule against it,you just have to deal with complaints from some. Just try not to do it when your team has a numbers advantage and the complaints shouldn't be too bad. Good luck to you.

Ditto.
Personally I don't have anything against sneaking unless I'm outnumbered.
Don't sneak on an outnumbered opponent. No rules against it,still, most pilots won't be 'impressed' with that. In such situations most of the sneakers says " I play the way I like, I'm hereto have some fun" but at the same time we shouldn't forget it is a game. All are here to have some fun. So why should we have fun by 'back stabbing' them.

Spooky Gomer wrote: I'm currently in that awkward Level 11 phase where I'm in the 'big boy' games with all the hungry MORAFS and their superplanes, but I'm still in the non-upgraded first plane, because I'm desperately saving for that 75,000$ plane. In an ideal world, I'd go head-on or turn and burn, but in my situation I'm getting chopped up into MORAF stew 9 times out of 10, often when I'm outnumbered. Not fun at all. Bad for morale.

Just to add something here... 9 times out of 10 If anyone is outnumbered they will become someones stew. It really dosen't reflect your level, your plane, or skill. That is going to happen in this game. You can really do nothing about it but play the game as it was handed to you and hope for some blue backup to come in quick. try not to let it discourage you. It will help you in the long run.

Good to see you on the forum. And Ill agree with Couchy and MAD, tactics are fair game here, the only time I really hate it is when im on the wrong side of that outnumbered game fighting to fend off the reds and I see a red dot on radar pop in behind me.

Good luck

They should have noticed you were missing in the head-on battle.

They should have taken advantage of having one less player to pass on their direct route to the enemy base.

They had one less player to worry about that could have played defence.

....one less that could have dropped.

....one less to divert them, going wide just in sight.

Just say you take the tunnel, since you are being outnumbered.
Those who's oppinion matter know what you mean.

If it's even or the other team has multiple MORAFs (in 5 vs 3, never six vs two), I will make an effort to sneak at least once in every bombing mission. My advice is to find a player you can hang out with a lot and develop a chemistry with them.

For instance, myself and Cricket in blue are a fearsome team. We have code terms, practiced strategies, and pretty good chemistry. When he sees my flying high, he'll go once up the middle, then drop and let the reds chase him while I dive. I'll then cover as he escorts our teammates. Then I'll switch to the middle while.... Well... I can't give away our strategy. It usually garners over half the hangars though.

My advice is do anything you want, as long as you're conscious of what other players might feel. Nothing is more annoying than trying to deal with a dropper, four bombers, and a sneaker simultaneously. Realize that while it IS all about winning, it's kinda not all about winning.

Dicta Boelcke, #47: fly at altitudes when going up the middle to push your radar limit (itself about 1,400 in all directions) higher and deprive the enemy of surpise, or force him to maximum altitude where his flight time to base is expanded to over 3X normal because of the long climb. Do this when you suspect a sneaker based on past behaviour, and when you notice someone mssing from successive attack waves. Call out high planes when you see them.

There are a lot of advantages to gaining altitude that aren't related to sneaking.
height->speed

At around 1000 you are still visible, but have multiple options on how you use it that those engaging with you don't have.
(ask any gannet looking for his breakfast)

At your stage you need every advantage you can get. Go for it.

Yeah, it is usually considered poor form. Everything that you said is true (kinda). The reason for the "kinda" is that we can't have enough players on a team to sufficiently defend and attack, which makes going up high a nearly free shot at hangers. If we could have 10-20 guys on a team, then it'd just be another tactic. Unless that happens though, I'm going to say don't do it. Besides, you'll never get better at killing the MORAFs if you don't shoot them!

I disagree, but I'm only one guy. Going high and wide is a tactic. Sometimes it's smart, sometimes not. If you do it, your team can suffer up the middle, and the enemy might get through and blast some hangars. But sometimes a team is too focused on the middle, and they don't count the planes or flank a little wide or high to scan the edges.

When someone red gets our hangars by sneaking, I'm mad as hell, but not at them!

And I never sneak when my team grossly outnumbers the enemy. That's just a matter of honor for me, and I don't expect others to follow my honor rules.

Manfred

I fully agree with Manfred on this one, so I guess that we're two guys.

I don't have a problem as long as the teams are roughly balanced. You usually notice when you haven't see a player for a while, so someone can lag behind to defend.

I haven't been high or wide myself for a long time. The time of day I play, I'm often the only high ranker on my team, and me going anywhere other than down the middle means the reds will get through, so I don't gain anything by doing it.

I usually go up the middle as well but when I do sneak I sneak on the sides not up high

Hi fellow aces,
A passionate and varied set of responses to my question, awesome! I've only been playing for a few weeks, so I've been having to figure out a lot of the unwritten rules, ethics, and slang the hard way.
I wrote the initial post as a result of a two-fold frustration. Firstly, when I joined the level 8+ games, I was suddenly getting my ass whupped with alarming regularity, so that messed with my confidence. So I thought that getting some altitude to bounce the enemy was A: My only chance to get a shot in before the inevitable shower of wood splinters, and B: Perhaps a welcome change in routine from a series of head-on attacks, a tactic which I doubt the real WWI aces would have used for long if they wanted to live.
My second frustration was borne of the in-game scolding I caught for using what I figured were age-old and basic dogfighting tactics, so that ruffled my feathers a bit.
To be honest, my tactic of bouncing (I won't call it 'sneaking' ) was rarely successful, as most of the time I got smoked anyway - I just had a longer way to fall. I only tried the high-level bombing attack twice, as it just takes way too long. And, funny story, the second time I tried it I got a bit too sassy and came in vertical like a Stuka, but only succeeded in bombing myself out of the air.
Lately I've been sticking with the more standard down-the-middle approach, and have been having better luck. It's all about aggression and confidence I guess. I appreciate the ethics advice, and will stick to the consensus - never go high when you have the numerical advantage. I know one day in the future, when I'm flying a sweet plane, I'll look back at the level 11 blues and laugh. It's reassuring to know that all MORAFS have gone through the same stomping-in period.
Whoa, I'm babbling, I'll blame jetlag.
Mac, your wingman tactics with Cricket sound badass, I'm jealous. One day I'll find a Goose too.
Watch out for the Spooky in the sun!
Cheers,
Spook.

Lol its even better when u have ur little brother right next to u in a game I can tell him to move somewhere and all kinds of other stuff it is really fun maybe one day zip can add an audio chat in game

Spooky Gomer wrote: Quick ethics question. Is getting way up high considered poor form? Like up so high you vanish from radar. I was grumbled at for doing this recently, and caught wind on the forum that the practice is perhaps frowned upon.
To me, it just seems like good tactics! Heck, if anyone here has glanced at Dicta Boelcke, #1 is 'Try to secure the upper hand before attacking...', with the advantages he was talking about being: speed, altitude, surprise, performance, and numerical superiority.
I'm currently in that awkward Level 11 phase where I'm in the 'big boy' games with all the hungry MORAFS and their superplanes, but I'm still in the non-upgraded first plane, because I'm desperately saving for that 75,000$ plane. In an ideal world, I'd go head-on or turn and burn, but in my situation I'm getting chopped up into MORAF stew 9 times out of 10, often when I'm outnumbered. Not fun at all. Bad for morale.
If I'm at a disadvantage when it comes to speed, performance and often numerical superiority, why would using Herr Boelcke's timeless advice to make up ground by securing a brief advantage by using surprise and altitude cause Dogfight players, especially experienced ones, to get all whiny? In any case, I long for the day when I don't have to resort to this tactic.
Cheers,
Spook.

As many good folks have already mentioned on here, sneaking on an outnumbered team is generally frowned upon, but the more experienced players here have come to expect this tactic from less experienced players.

You mentioned you are saving for the more expensive planes. Stick to playing in the free planes for a while. I say this because you will soon find that you have spent your coin on a new plane to find it is slower and more sluggish in the air than the free planes as you have to buy upgrades to increase their performance. The top level planes cost around $2,600,000 in order to purchase and then fully upgrade.

The best advice I can give you is take each game as a new experience. Learn tactics from the more experienced players by either a direct question to them, or just observation. There are a lot of great people playing here who will be more than happy to help you out.

Enjoy the game, great to see you posting on the forum and I hope to see you in the skies soon!

Spooky Gomer wrote: Quick ethics question. Is getting way up high considered poor form? Like up so high you vanish from radar. I was grumbled at for doing this recently, and caught wind on the forum that the practice is perhaps frowned upon.
To me, it just seems like good tactics!

Silly pilot. Don't you know you're supposed to fly down the middle in your weak, slow, and obsolete plane, and let higher ranking reds shoot you down again and again and again, and knowing if you're lucky you might get one kill for every ten deaths you take?

And dare to question the status quo??? And do something different???!? Yes, you'll be grumbled at.

My opinion on these questions differ wildly from most other players. Imho, if you're a lower ranking player, and have poorer planes, then I wouldn't care what you do. Drop, sneak, camp.... So what.

On the one hand, if you're a higher ranking pilot & worth your salt, then you know that you can handle yourself against the weaker planes. On the other hand, I tend to enjoy a 7 vs me game. Allows me to rake up kills.

But, as for those who have been around, its not fair for us to play in any other way other then by the common code of conduct.

I am not really a great flyer in this game but I am one of the best at shooting a plane down with a tank if u wish to learn how I can show u a few things that help me aim it I would have to do it in game and make sure not much.people are in I don't want everyone to know my tank strategy's or else everyone can avoid getting shot down by me lol

And you might find this summary post useful:
dogfightplay.com/index.php/forum/2-gossi...bbreviations-summary

I personally will go high if even players and they are playing great D, or us one less player and my team can hold them back. Wana win that game but with some standards

just came from a BTC game where one of our team was flying high on every single run and bombing, yet the reds failed to learn from this lesson and he went unopposed right until the end of the game, even though they complained about it every time. I called them out on the complaining and said something like "it's not sneaking if you know where he's going every time, and it's your own fault for letting him through", but then I had a plan..... I knew they would be looking for him so I followed him up high as well, but a bit later turned inward so I could get ahead as a decoy.
Sure enough when I got to their carrier (which needed only one bomb to be finished), at about 2,500 ft there were two reds waiting for me, I got one of them and he got me, then I guess the other one was satisfied with that and left to try his luck at our carrier... then 30 secs later....boooooom we won. I thought it was a funny twist to the whole sneaking argument

I don't see a problem with flying high. I do it, not always, but if I feel that my team can hold them off for me to make a high run I will. At the same time if I don't Se a player for a bit I'll drop and climb, or go left or right. However if I ever drop you won't see me go camp. When I drop my bombs my first priority is to go reload. If I am pursued I will turn and fight but do not ever camp just for camping.

Jacob10000 wrote: ........if I ever drop you won't see me go camp. When I drop my bombs my first priority is to go reload. If I am pursued I will turn and fight but do not ever camp just for camping.

there's always that one (or more) pilot that chases you and shoots after you've bombed and are trying to return to base, but accuses you of camping when you defend yourself

slyguy wrote: just came from a BTC game where one of our team was flying high on every single run and bombing, yet the reds failed to learn from this lesson and he went unopposed right until the end of the game, even though they complained about it every time. I called them out on the complaining and said something like "it's not sneaking if you know where he's going every time, and it's your own fault for letting him through", but then I had a plan..... I knew they would be looking for him so I followed him up high as well, but a bit later turned inward so I could get ahead as a decoy.
Sure enough when I got to their carrier (which needed only one bomb to be finished), at about 2,500 ft there were two reds waiting for me, I got one of them and he got me, then I guess the other one was satisfied with that and left to try his luck at our carrier... then 30 secs later....boooooom we won. I thought it was a funny twist to the whole sneaking argument

Lol, Bravo!
Nice gambit.


If there were 'team chat' you would be able to coordinate this sort of thing with the other blues. It would make the game a lot more strategically interesting.

(Was the other blue Baron von Fritz?)

[NLR]*McFate* wrote:
If there were 'team chat' you would be able to coordinate this sort of thing with the other blues. It would make the game a lot more strategically interesting.

(Was the other blue Baron von Fritz?)

no, his in game name was "Shut Up" I think, level 27, and he'd been sneaking high in every game I'd seen him earlier today. There's an aspirant by that name and a level 27 by the name "Shut-Up" so maybe I didn't notice the hyphen

I agree on the 'team chat' idea, I've noticed occasionally new players seem to not realise the other team can read what they are saying. I've used this as a strategy before as well, and not typed anything in the chat hoping they mistake my silence to mean their conversation is private

Amen brother Junkyard Dog!!
Until u figure sumthn out, exhaust tactics before complaining or repetitiously center fly'n ?
Those were the ole' English settler days ?