the wig spawn kills, ive seen him do it, look guys, points to screen shoots that proove nothing
I have never spawn killed
but I sure get it alot
there mane defense was
I was going in to bomb I couldn't let you take off
wig
say what you want
do what ever you want
but never accuse me of spawn killing, because I can give you a definition if thats what you want, I could do it all day, all day, id bet you love that huh, real buust to your tiny little ego if your that, number one means nothing to me and you know it

Dogfight: The Online Multi-player Totally Batshit Jackass Magnet

Wigbomb wrote: Dogfight: The Online Multi-player Totally Batshit Jackass Magnet

hey watch your mouth
it may be my fault for bring it out but
you cant swear
your worse than s 5 year old on the COD
you dont want my bad side do you
I could show
ill play you tomarow, because alas my tablets batery is dead
and no my comp is to old for DF
so
ILL BURN YOU UP
SOME OTHER TIME
FRIEND
HEHEHAHAHAH

Wigbomb wrote: Dogfight: The Online Multi-player Totally Batshit Jackass Magnet

and pleas
just connect the tablet to the comp via usb
boop
simple
and yes
I do it for the good of others
there was a match ive been in with a dot in the cross hairs

I drop my bomb the second someone bitches about someone dropping

DoGss wrote: I drop my bomb the second someone bitches about someone dropping

Hey DoGss!

Lol! That's what just happened in a game. I was 2vs6 and Japan khuls called me out for dropping while I was carrying. So I waited until he was in view then I dropped. I fought em off as khuls chased me bombless. I got hit and was spawn killed relentlessly as they got all but one hangar, till finally, conscience got the best of some and a couple of the reds left. Some good blues spawned in and helped fight. Khuls tried to sneak the last one but we caught him! Then we just turned the tide and over ran them while kuhls was out for a second try at a sneak. Lol.

It was fun.

McFate wrote:

DoGss wrote: I drop my bomb the second someone bitches about someone dropping

Hey DoGss!

Lol! That's what just happened in a game. I was 2vs6 and Japan khuls called me out for dropping while I was carrying. So I waited until he was in view then I dropped. I fought em off as khuls chased me bombless. They got all but one hangar and finally their conscience got the best of them and some of the reds left. Some good blues spawned in and helped fight. Khuls tried to sneak the last one but we caught him! Then we just turned the tide and over ran them while links was out for a second try at a sneak. Lol.

It was fun.

Yeah I know. When I came back last month I just hung low working the rust off I ran into u a few times and was happy as hell because I needed to work on turning too. Now that the rust is gone Im still on a phone granted its a galaxy 5 but its alot smaller then a computer so I sway n dip like i always have to get closer so I can see a dot before I fire. Then some horses ass after getting shot down 3 4 times starts in with the bomb bs. That's when I either ignore it whice never ever really happens or I drop for real and drive them all batsht. If its me vs all or 2 vs 6 chances are im dropping as well until the onslaught is interrupted. Maybe start complaining about the computer dogfight players see how they like it. They prefer everyone jusr stay still so they can blast your ass across the field. Either way nothing is more fn annoying then players of a game telling other players of the game how to play. It's moronic. DO what makes you happy when playing. Period

Wigbomb wrote: I find that the people quickest to cry foul at a bomb-dropper are those least interested in imaginative game-play. Some of us come at a game like Dogfight from a perspective founded on action/adventure games, real time strategy games, games in which success is dependent on puzzle solving and outside-the-box thinking and, gawd forbid, historicity. Others have their experience rooted in repetition, the mastery of an isolated skill. A God of War player will almost certainly find limited entertainment value in Bubble Town or Centipede or Doom...a Halo player isn't likely to have the patience for Civilization or Prince of Persia or Grand Theft Auto.

The central question then becomes; is Dogfight an arcade style shooter or an historically accurate flight combat sim? Are you pretending to be Master Chief? Or Ernst Udet? Pac Man? Or Albert Ball? Are you fantasizing about encountering Richtofen over the front? Or just vegging out with some comfortably mindless, repetitive pixel busting?

The irony I never see mentioned is the fact that anti-droppers decry bomb dumping as the private domain of kill hoarding players who care about nothing but racking up personal stats...but the highest single mission kill scores I'm aware of are never recorded by droppers, they're arguably only possible by retaining the bomb(s) and slogging across the map over and over in endless head-ons. It's actually the slavish bomb-carriers who are less concerned with the mission outcome and more focused on bagging eight kills, falling, re-spawning, bagging eight kills, falling...and on and on until they have their 100+. Or their 300+. My own highest scores have all been logged while carrying, bomb toting has produced my greatest personal statistical benefit, while in the missions in which I've elected to drop (and have had to endure incessant tiresome kvetching about it) I've been the most effective in service to my team.

I get the appeal of occasionally lumbering back and forth countless times and rolling up massive amounts of kills. I wish the complainer contingent would learn to see the appeal in the obverse approach and not only view it as an interruption to their one-trick fun.

Gonna have to agree with you on this one. I enjoy the challenge of winning. I don't care about my stats. I don't care about bragging rights. I don't secretly picture myself as the Red Baron. I want to use whatever combination of tactics and teamwork that it requires to win. I want to outthink your tactics and make you lose. 100+ kill games are tiring. I want 15 kills and the win. If I lose, it hit a magic button that says play again, and the fun begins again.

With that said, I've tried to force myself not to treat anyone else in the game too poorly. I get annoyed when I'm by myself and 5 guys decide to shoot me off of the carrier deck repeatedly, giving me no chance to try. But, in the end, it's a game, about war, and it just doesn't really matter.

Btw: I think TASK is well intentioned. Certain people do everything they can to piss off the rest of us. It shouldn't be too surprising that they find themselves under the microscope pretty quickly.

Yellow Blaze... Your village called...

FOX#1 [BB] wrote: I agree Mc.
I personally don't talk much "About" the game,
Mostly just chat.

This game I hate to repeat is .......

WAR

What can't some people understand about that!

I play a mutiplayer tank game,and when it comes to playing cleen,
Makes this game feel like a formal "tea and biscuits".

Now I never hear anything even close to the whining i hear in this game.

This game is war.
If you can't stand that,
Go play candy crush, or flappy bird.

You can play nice and such, but this ain't no
Tea party.

Pull up your big girl pants and fight!

dont complain until you start having bombs drooped on you in mid air
im working a technique ive done it at least once, so yeah
I came up with some thing better than shooting a plane down with a tank shell

jacklpe wrote:

Wigbomb wrote: I find that the people quickest to cry foul at a bomb-dropper are those least interested in imaginative game-play. Some of us come at a game like Dogfight from a perspective founded on action/adventure games, real time strategy games, games in which success is dependent on puzzle solving and outside-the-box thinking and, gawd forbid, historicity. Others have their experience rooted in repetition, the mastery of an isolated skill. A God of War player will almost certainly find limited entertainment value in Bubble Town or Centipede or Doom...a Halo player isn't likely to have the patience for Civilization or Prince of Persia or Grand Theft Auto.

The central question then becomes; is Dogfight an arcade style shooter or an historically accurate flight combat sim? Are you pretending to be Master Chief? Or Ernst Udet? Pac Man? Or Albert Ball? Are you fantasizing about encountering Richtofen over the front? Or just vegging out with some comfortably mindless, repetitive pixel busting?

The irony I never see mentioned is the fact that anti-droppers decry bomb dumping as the private domain of kill hoarding players who care about nothing but racking up personal stats...but the highest single mission kill scores I'm aware of are never recorded by droppers, they're arguably only possible by retaining the bomb(s) and slogging across the map over and over in endless head-ons. It's actually the slavish bomb-carriers who are less concerned with the mission outcome and more focused on bagging eight kills, falling, re-spawning, bagging eight kills, falling...and on and on until they have their 100+. Or their 300+. My own highest scores have all been logged while carrying, bomb toting has produced my greatest personal statistical benefit, while in the missions in which I've elected to drop (and have had to endure incessant tiresome kvetching about it) I've been the most effective in service to my team.

I get the appeal of occasionally lumbering back and forth countless times and rolling up massive amounts of kills. I wish the complainer contingent would learn to see the appeal in the obverse approach and not only view it as an interruption to their one-trick fun.

Gonna have to agree with you on this one. I enjoy the challenge of winning. I don't care about my stats. I don't care about bragging rights. I don't secretly picture myself as the Red Baron. I want to use whatever combination of tactics and teamwork that it requires to win. I want to outthink your tactics and make you lose. 100+ kill games are tiring. I want 15 kills and the win. If I lose, it hit a magic button that says play again, and the fun begins again.

With that said, I've tried to force myself not to treat anyone else in the game too poorly. I get annoyed when I'm by myself and 5 guys decide to shoot me off of the carrier deck repeatedly, giving me no chance to try. But, in the end, it's a game, about war, and it just doesn't really matter.

Btw: I think TASK is well intentioned. Certain people do everything they can to piss off the rest of us. It shouldn't be too surprising that they find themselves under the microscope pretty quickly.

Yellow Blaze... Your village called...

saw it

Ahhh,

Don't miss Luna's thread: "The Dogfight Meta"

She is always good for helping to expand the horizons. Where I try to convince through testimony and arguement, she tends to enlighten through intellectual reasoning.

Good job. Luna!

Luna wrote:

Metagame (n)

The highest level of strategy in many complex games, metagame refers to any aspect of strategy that involves thinking about what your opponent is thinking you are thinking.

Metagame comes into play in any game where no single strategy is dominant and opposing sides are aware of multiple strategies that can succeed dependent upon opponents' actions. In order to perform at the highest level, it then becomes necessary to think about what your opponent thinks you will do (which may depend on what he thinks you think he thinks he will do, etc.) and to make decisions based on clues regarding what level they are thinking on.

---

It’s not a wonder why people get so antsy when you don’t play the game their way. It seems everyone's screaming about droppers and whatever, this way and that. But the truth is, every person has their own particular playstyle, and nobody likes to lose. Those are facts. When either of those two points get assaulted, people will get angry.

I’m going to echo a previous post here (#199025, fantastic words, Wig) and say; we need to start looking at Dogfight and its gameplay in a different way. You see, in many other multiplayer games (notably more strategic games), each playstyle has strengths, and weaknesses (and a “counter” who can take advantages of those weaknesses with their own strengths). In a good and well thought-out game, nothing is equal and everything is balanced.

Bear with me...

Take the simple game of rock-paper-scissors. Paper beats rock, rock beats scissors, scissors beat paper. We all know the rules. Each choice is different, but everything is fair, and there is absolutely no room to complain. Now let’s take that simple concept and expand it to a larger and more complex scale; like say... a multiplayer WWI dogfight simulator.

If it were perfect, it could look something like this.

An Ideal Meta

Light Plane
Strengths: Fast, Agile fighter. Dominates in high numbers and close range.
Weaknesses: Low ammunition capacity, low HP, and lowest effective range. Ineffective against ground targets.

Medium Plane
Strengths: Can take on targets at a good range. Multi-capable fighter/bomber, with good HP.
Weaknesses: Less agile than lighter planes at close ranges. Limited bombing capability.

Heavy Plane
Strengths: Can decimate ground targets. High HP and ammunition capacity. Longest effective range.
Weaknesses: Low speed and agility.

With a good look and some careful thinking, one can see how this can balance out. You can play whichever playstyle you want, and you can’t complain because there is a counter to everything. With good teamwork and coordination, you can make any game interesting and engaging. But with the actual Dogfight we have now, it’s more like this:

Dogfight's Current Meta

Bomb-Holders
Strengths: Can bomb and shoot, multiple capability.
Weaknesses: Slow and less agile.

Bomb-Droppers
Strengths: Fast, agile fighter.
Weaknesses: Cannot bomb targets.

So, what do we have here? Two incomplete roles/playstyles, and lots of possibilities of imbalances. Don’t forget about the different airplanes, all of which have different stats and sizes, but yet the same mechanics (all can bomb and shoot [a super-slim plane that can do the same thing as a fatter plane, what?]). What does this encourage within the playerbase? Mindless shooting.

It turns into a game where everyone is under the illusion that all players are equal in playstyle (because of the game’s mechanics, they almost are), so if someone tries to break the currently perceived metagame (which is ridiculously simple), people will get angry. “This is OP, that is unfair, this is dumb, etc...”

Until the game developers, or the players, start changing how the game is; which is seeing that it is perfectly possible and even more so plausible for people to play differently; then this issue will never be solved. Yes, the game is still improving, but we need to make the best with what we have. Bomb dropping isn’t cheating, it’s a counter, an answer to a problem in game; much like sneaking, corkscrewing, and other frowned-upon practices. It’s an attempt to make the game more dynamic and interesting, because the current meta only offers rock and paper, but no scissors.

All of us need to ask ourselves: Is Dogfight going to be a diverse and interesting game; or are the very players going to force it into another mindless COD clone, where everyone plays the same and the person that wins is the one who simply moves faster?

And finally, for the developers: How much are you willing to sacrifice realism for balance? Someone needs to bring out the nerf guns and the buff pads, and soon.

-Luna

I always avoid threads about dropping and sneaking, I don't know why I'm even putting my two cents in now. I don't care, I never have. Maybe I think too much in terms of reality where bombers have escort fighters - I know it's just a game but it never made sense to me when players complain about each other dropping a bomb to gain mobility. The same with sneakers - it's just how wars are fought.
Sure, I'll bitch and whine on occasion when someone sneaks all the way around bombless just to camp out and be a dick but it's out of frustration and nothing more - there are techniques to taking out a runway pounder, I just need to get better at them.
I choose to keep at least one bomb at all times unless the situation is dire, but I don't expect others to do the same and won't think anything of it if they don't.

I'd love nothing more than to see everyone having fun playing the way they choose, provided they play within the rules and don't intentionally ruin games.

I totally agree luna.este creative game is clearly yes, but creativity and improvisation is the have to put each driver (activarsela say) I've said many times I fight to win, I will use any thing that can help me to win the mission team, this is about and have fun, I will ignore the insults and receipt. (Which does not like as do others, that will be or at least do not criticize those who we had great) and let you know that I can play defrente, DF, of esnaker, dropper or what it is, as of (fun) (always play well is boring hehe) and win the mission.

Great post!!!

I don't have one single thing to sit and nit-pick it apart over!!!!!!! Lol

Good post McFate ,I can agree to not disagree . Besides I learned a long time ago to never disagree with someone who wears a skirt.

I see the big topic here is about dropping. Well McFate did mention sneaking and here is my point. When I first began playing both dropping and sneaking was the norm. I used to sneak because I sucked at head on( I still do by the way) and occasionally my sneaking would work. When it did work I was lavished with praise such as : good job, well done and way to go by players such as those in the top 100 list. These guys were the vets then at least to me. The old timers or the ones to look up to. Now sneaking is bad? Look at my banner. Sneaking is what I have always done to complete the mission. As I ramble all I am trying to say is the game has changed. I dont play as much anymore but when I do fighting head on is still not the best for me. I drop when needed and sneak if I feel it will help. The only thing I really do not like is team killing. I have been banned a few times. Those bans were due to me team killing someone who team killed me repeatedly or for spelling bastard. Or was it basterd? Anyway it was the correct way because ******* would appear and I was banned. Thanks for the post McFate. See ya on the fringes and if I dont say good bye to at least one hangar. Or is it hanger?

Who is this guy stfu. Think all squads need to go after this stfu. Stfu seems to be causing a lot of trouble. Surely you can ban stfu. Let's all go stfu!

after reading through this exhausting page after page of whining moaning gibberish I can see one common thread that everybody agrees with...... this is a game not real life deal with it play the game the way you want to and stop Bitching and STFU.

Nicely said Sir Mcfate!

To be honest, I complain about droppers especially when they go straight to my base just to camp and sk. I warn my teammates about the dropper "____ is a dropper" but not to intentionally set them off. Same thing with sneakers... but i warn them directly "_____ stop sneaking." It's just to inform the red, even blue to stop what may be of disrespect to others (especially now that the noob server was removed).

HOWEVER, i would only say those stuff IF one side is outnumbered. Heck, if I'm in a game, you've got sneakers and droppers in a team of 6...and you and your teammate are trying your best to fly with bombs on...i would consider those stuff to be disrespectful, thus making me drop my bomb even after take off just to fly high and get the sneakers.

If the game gives equal number of players on both sides though or you're going to defend...heck go for it! Even I would sneak once the game goes 4 on 4..time for strategy when numbers are equal, wouldn't you agree? What do you guys think? Mr. Mcfate?

P.S. This message is for you players out there who consider me part of the complainers. hahaha most of the time i would like a fair play when i'm outnumbered. don't sneak/ drop coz you already have the advantage in numbers. but since my opinion would vary with people and we can't really slap some sense into each other... we'll just let our flying do the talking. :* mwah! hahaha XD
See you in the skies ladies!

Hey COD.Dan,

I hear what you're saying about the uneven teams. It's definitely frustrating when the reds won't let you take a breath, but......
What do you propose?

* Should there be some unenforceable rules about it?
* If so, what is the policing mechanism?
* Are people "wrong" to exploit an advantage in a "war game"?
* Is it really so bad for an unbalanced game to end quickly?
* Is there anything (besides ego) keeping anyone from leaving a game when they are outnumbered?
* What kind of "satisfaction" does complaining bring?
* Does complaining help in any way?

I seems to me that the "best" result of complaining is that some reds will quit and switch sides. On the down side complaining calls people unfair and cheats. My "testimony" on this thread is about when the reds "falsely" accuse me of "cheating". In my perspective I am justified, but no matter where I draw my own lines someone else may have other opinions. Since there are no actual rules it only comes down to opinion. Rather than complaining wouldn't a comment like "a little help?" be a more likely to appeal to the red's compassion than accusations?

If someone truly does not care about uneven sides, what then? I guess it's human nature to resort to vigilantism. Just remember that vigilantism can be carried out by anyone whether or not they share your perspective on what is "just". I think that is what happened in my game where I was heavily outnumbered against Japan!Kuls. He complained that I was dropping (when I was not). He then dropped to chase me, I then dropped to counter. Funny thing is that by my own "rules" I would have been justified in dropping just because of the fact that I was already outnumbered, but I didn't until the accusation. I waited to drop until the reds could see that I had been carrying when the accusation was made. Why? Ego I guess. LOL!

I fought hard through several waves of reds and managed to keep one hangar while being spawn raped relentlessly. The only respite I got was that one of the reds (a Misfit) called bad form and left. Eventually a couple others (also Misfits) said "gtg", the balance soon shifted and the game became an unlikely victory, as well as one of the more exhilarating games I've had in a while.

(Dear Misfits, I mention the squad not to accuse my former squad mates, but to point out that even well intentioned players can be mistaken in their belief of what is happening from someone else's perspective. I urge you all to let go of your expectations and let the game evolve with dignity.)

I don't like bland games. The more I think about it the less interesting straightforward head-on bombing becomes. If you insist that bombing games are only for head-to-head players....sorry. I don't want to see the game limited by this narrow perspective. Zuperman has said that he wants people to play as they choose and has made very few "rules" that have not been "coded"into the game.

Complaining is only done by those who want to limit other players options. (Including my complaining about complainers. Lol!)

I think the game is better when everyone just throws everything they've got into a game. Win or lose, I prefer a tough fight over a bland stalemate.

I have been accused of complaining at times just for typing "so and so is light" or "whomever dropped" more to alert my team mates than to complain. Also "so and so is high" or "sneaker", again for the purpose of alerting my team mates more than a complaint. As soon as I do that I normally get a barrage of comments which I ignore due to the intent of my message. It always fixes itself if you ignore it. "tank at base" normally draws others to help kill the potential spawnkiller in a dogfight game and hopefully others will leave me be until I eliminate the tank, but that rarely happens. There are valid arguments, in my opinion, for all the different types of players, and this thread clearly discusses some interesting viewpoints. I don't feel the urge to rehash any of it but wanted to quickly address the "complainers" because, in my case at least, my message isn't a complaint but a statement (which a team chat feature could and would rectify). Personally I have found that if I don't agree with the style of play it is way easier just to leave the game and find another, just like I change the channel when the television show is bad. After all, they are just stats and in the grand scheme of things fairly insignificant on a persons list of lifes' accomplishments. (Does that makes sense?)

Fun game, (really, really fun mostly) but just a game.

P.S. Does anyone else think the forum needs a flame thread?

McFate wrote: Hey COD.Dan,

I hear what you're saying about the uneven teams. It's definitely frustrating when the reds won't let you take a breath, but......
What do you propose?

* Should there be some unenforceable rules about it?
* If so, what is the policing mechanism?
* Are people "wrong" to exploit an advantage in a "war game"?
* Is it really so bad for an unbalanced game to end quickly?
* Is there anything (besides ego) keeping anyone from leaving a game when they are outnumbered?
* What kind of "satisfaction" does complaining bring?
* Does complaining help in any way?

I seems to me that the "best" result of complaining is that some reds will quit and switch sides. On the down side complaining calls people unfair and cheats. My "testimony" on this thread is about when the reds "falsely" accuse me of "cheating". In my perspective I am justified, but no matter where I draw my own lines someone else may have other opinions. Since there are no actual rules it only comes down to opinion. Rather than complaining wouldn't a comment like "a little help?" be a more likely to appeal to the red's compassion than accusations?

If someone truly does not care about uneven sides, what then? I guess it's human nature to resort to vigilantism. Just remember that vigilantism can be carried out by anyone whether or not they share your perspective on what is "just". I think that is what happened in my game where I was heavily outnumbered against Japan!Kuls. He complained that I was dropping (when I was not). He then dropped to chase me, I then dropped to counter. Funny thing is that by my own "rules" I would have been justified in dropping just because of the fact that I was already outnumbered, but I didn't until the accusation. I waited to drop until the reds could see that I had been carrying when the accusation was made. Why? Ego I guess. LOL!

I fought hard through several waves of reds and managed to keep one hangar while being spawn raped relentlessly. The only respite I got was that one of the reds (a Misfit) called bad form and left. Eventually a couple others (also Misfits) said "gtg", the balance soon shifted and the game became an unlikely victory, as well as one of the more exhilarating games I've had in a while.

(Dear Misfits, I mention the squad not to accuse my former squad mates, but to point out that even well intentioned players can be mistaken in their belief of what is happening from someone else's perspective. I urge you all to let go of your expectations and let the game evolve with dignity.)

I don't like bland games. The more I think about it the less interesting straightforward head-on bombing becomes. If you insist that bombing games are only for head-to-head players....sorry. I don't want to see the game limited by this narrow perspective. Zuperman has said that he wants people to play as they choose and has made very few "rules" that have not been "coded"into the game.

Complaining is only done by those who want to limit other players options. (Including my complaining about complainers. Lol!)

I think the game is better when everyone just throws everything they've got into a game. Win or lose, I prefer a tough fight over a bland stalemate.

-rules? guess not...limits the game too much. XD
-
-it's not really wrong but i guess a little sportsmanship when outnumbered would be nice
-game ending quickly? nothing wrong with it. you and i both know it gives us a heck of a KDR. hahahaha
-sportsmanship, nice kdr, coins when you lose, xp...yeah those are all i've got for staying.
-I guess for my part when I complain or warn..it allows the red to know what's not nice for me. old pilots would understand and acknowledge...noobs would usually start trashtalking
-besides what i said here ^ ...no more i guess...if talking doesn't work then i'd just STFU. haha XD

I've had similar experiences. Heck if a noob starts complaining about me dropping...oh you know hahaha... Nice to see some chivalry from some pilots (even from you) i completely agree with what you said about not going for head on...not all pilots fly alike... well other than that...it's a game when i complain (in my view it's more of asking really... ) and no one listens...i just cut any possible drama hahaha nice thread sir lots of perspectives are made clear. thumbs up!

i had a match earlier where this guy was complaining about me dropping half of the game.... i don't mind that....but he was sneaking game too..... come one..... this guy has the nerve to say my kills don't count cause i drop and yet saids sneaking is ok......we lost the game cause he kept on sneaking.... only one hangar was bombed by somebody else.....

i'm ok with sneaking..i'm ok with people dropping.. but don't said sneaking is ok while dropping is wrong......

I like your take on it McFate. That's one of the big reasons I choose to remain squadless. I'm not really willing to sign away my rights to play the game however it suits me at the moment. With the time and effort so many people put into these squads, it is highly disrespectful to fly a squad tag and not follow its rules. I know I pass it off like it's some kind of antisocial thing. But, in reality, when I played wearing the MOM tag, I felt like I represented the brand, and was obligated to put a good light on it. What's good for the squad though was limiting to me. When I was at MOM, I felt like I had to be a stone cold killer in the game. Flying on my own, if I feel like goofing off, I can. I enjoy turning that ability off and on like a switch though . I have no desire (and often not the skill either) to trash everyone's game, but I don't want to be told I zigged when my squad says I must zag. Screw that... Not for me. BTW, it's not that MOM was all that limiting mind you (one reason I chose to join), my reasons for leaving there were well documented. But, after I left, I found most other squads' rules to be very limiting. I have no disrespect whatsoever for those that choose to abide by a bunch of self imposed rules on the game, but I choose not to do that to myself. I don't want them forced on me either.