Im glad to see any mod kick a player thats blocking the runway.

As for the chat i think we've all seen worse things to put up with.

I'd rather play with plur on either side then see him replaced by a known dropper/spawn killer.

Many of us have been put on the anvil for some 7 vs 1. It happens. If youre only a man down, no biggie.

Manfried, I like your writing. It really takes you there

FREE PLURIBUS!

Oooooh c'mon Ronnie! Even the ultimate pessimist gets "it".

Maybe we should play a little more and complain a little less......Let's not worry about about what others say or do ( unless its vulgar).........The list goes on and on about what is dissliked in this game.......I am a dropper, so be it. I also bomb too (not as much as others, but I have my reasons).......Others spawn kill.... I have learned (back in the olden days how to take off and take care of the spawn killer (I only ban them because y'all disslike them and not for any reason of my own)......We have even complains about how players bomb the hangers. Some complained that it was wrong to bomb the hanger from 2000 ft. (Pretty ridiculous huh?)........Is it really possible to make everyone happy?

If pluribus wants to sit there on the side lines and talk in a negative way then so be it. He is no different than one of the buildings. (Useless). I have (as well as many others) sat off to the side and talked (not in a negative way)....

I do not mean any diss respect to others who think otherwise. Most, if not all of y'all are great people!! I respect each and everyone of you!! I just wanted to share my opinion (even though I am not as good with words as many of you are lol)

You know maybe I'm not making myself clear... I'm not saying ban him for ever I'm saying I agree with kicking him from THAT ONE GAME ONLY not for now on, He has not done anything to be banned for, Im only saying Manfred was rigth in booting him from that game only....

I have played in more than one game with pluribus and realized that attention he seeks and gets with any response. I have witnessed all of the above and some great flying at the same time. However I choose to ignore him and just play, if I responded to all the chat I would never complete a game.

Manfred I get where your coming from, can be frustrating, however you may have added fuel to the fire. Another reason to complain and whine, I found that if you ignore it long enough he gets silent.

I don't agree with the decision to kick anyone out due to griping, just saying. There is always one in a game that finds a way to make it fun or challenging. The challenge is to resist the urge to react negatively yourself.

Dr Dave wrote: You know maybe I'm not making myself clear... I'm not saying ban him for ever I'm saying I agree with kicking him from THAT ONE GAME ONLY not for now on, He has not done anything to be banned for, Im only saying Manfred was rigth in booting him from that game only....[/quot


I guess your not. Or maybe you are and some are just having a time of it, getting there head around it. But you posted that he hadn't done anything to be banned for, so when we find an irritant in game, don't ban them just kick em.

I don't think that works fellas, how could it! Fairly speaking?

bzerkbzerk wrote: I have played in more than one game with pluribus and realized that attention he seeks and gets with any response. I have witnessed all of the above and some great flying at the same time. However I choose to ignore him and just play, if I responded to all the chat I would never complete a game.

Manfred I get where your coming from, can be frustrating, however you may have added fuel to the fire. Another reason to complain and whine, I found that if you ignore it long enough he gets silent.

I don't agree with the decision to kick anyone out due to griping, just saying. There is always one in a game that finds a way to make it fun or challenging. The challenge is to resist the urge to react negatively yourself.

After a lot of thinking, I have to agree with bzerk.

To many of the other posters, please note that I did NOT object to someone being unproductive in the mission, and I do NOT agree with you guys that unproductive pilots should be booted. People have their reasons. Sometimes I do too.

But I do not disrupt the game with negative comments! That was my sole objection. I suppose I don't know why the blues left, but since I myself was considering leaving, I felt it was safe to assume some effect on others. Yes, normally I ignore, even embrace it, in an Eeyore-like way. But in that game, incessant as it was, and with a game that was on the hairy brink the whole time, I could see the mission live or die with each additional discouragement. It just did not seem right.

But neither was kicking Pluribus from the game. Pluribus, I apologize for kicking you out of the game. That sort of thing is reserved for people who abuse others in the game. While irritating and annoying, your comments were not abuse. Zup did suggest muting you if it got to be a significant problem, but I do not see that as the right path either. If I have a problem in future games, I will simply leave. But I will try to view it as an interesting obstacle and additional challenge.

Manfred

Manfred wrote:

bzerkbzerk wrote: I have played in more than one game with pluribus and realized that attention he seeks and gets with any response. I have witnessed all of the above and some great flying at the same time. However I choose to ignore him and just play, if I responded to all the chat I would never complete a game.

Manfred I get where your coming from, can be frustrating, however you may have added fuel to the fire. Another reason to complain and whine, I found that if you ignore it long enough he gets silent.

I don't agree with the decision to kick anyone out due to griping, just saying. There is always one in a game that finds a way to make it fun or challenging. The challenge is to resist the urge to react negatively yourself.

After a lot of thinking, I have to agree with bzerk.

To many of the other posters, please note that I did NOT object to someone being unproductive in the mission, and I do NOT agree with you guys that unproductive pilots should be booted. People have their reasons. Sometimes I do too.

But I do not disrupt the game with negative comments! That was my sole objection. I suppose I don't know why the blues left, but since I myself was considering leaving, I felt it was safe to assume some effect on others. Yes, normally I ignore, even embrace it, in an Eeyore-like way. But in that game, incessant as it was, and with a game that was on the hairy brink the whole time, I could see the mission live or die with each additional discouragement. It just did not seem right.

But neither was kicking Pluribus from the game. Pluribus, I apologize for kicking you out of the game. That sort of thing is reserved for people who abuse others in the game. While irritating and annoying, your comments were not abuse. Zup did suggest muting you if it got to be a significant problem, but I do not see that as the right path either. If I have a problem in future games, I will simply leave. But I will try to view it as an interesting obstacle and additional challenge.

Manfred

Manfred, you legend. Me and the rest of the Pluribelievers rejoice your decision!

From now on you shall be known as Manfred the Merciful!

30 karma for you Manfred!!!!!

You see, me being the least liked mod (Kim Jung in or I'll or whatever my name is, I can't remember ) has a heart....I'm the great karma giver lol

Manny,
I respect your newly obtained conclusion on the matter and the moderation wih which you moderate (moderately, anyway).

I'm still of the opinion that anyone tha participates in "game ruining" behavior is subject to action. Incessant negativity is a form of trolling. Sitting on the runway, intentionally, and causing crashes (whether that is the intent or not) is akin to teamkilling. Parking while your teammates are battling for an objective is traitorous, as is sitting when reds are inbound and you could defend. Actively being "inactive" robs a team of a participating teammate. All of these are game ruining activities, in my opinion. At best it's exceedingly inconsiderate.

I still thinking booting anyone that does these things is appropriate and certainly requires no apology from you. Maybe the "moderation" here could be exactly what you did. Boot, but not ban. As far as muting, maybe that would send the right message, although for me, robbing me of a participating teammate is much less forgivable than the dribble.

Oh good grief! Plu gets the biggest whiner of the year award. Just sat there, camped and whined negative crap. Got so bad, even whiplash who was a red told him to shoot, lol.. Sorry whip, clay and others, i just couldn't take the cry baby bull crap.

Yep, he was at it again yesterday.
Blocking the runway spouting his negativity and causing crashes.
I guess nothing can be done so i will just shoot him where ever I see him, give him something to whinge about.

For the record, I'll name and shame him here.
This is the "ball bag" that team killed me for not shooting him down so he could tank.

He can team kill me, He can block a blue runway, He can negatively effect games by refusing to play.
Red or blue, I no longer see any reason to care, he'll bitch and moan either way.


I think this is him...

ParrotHead wrote: Manny,
I respect your newly obtained conclusion on the matter and the moderation wih which you moderate (moderately, anyway).

I'm still of the opinion that anyone tha participates in "game ruining" behavior is subject to action. Incessant negativity is a form of trolling. Sitting on the runway, intentionally, and causing crashes (whether that is the intent or not) is akin to teamkilling. Parking while your teammates are battling for an objective is traitorous, as is sitting when reds are inbound and you could defend. Actively being "inactive" robs a team of a participating teammate. All of these are game ruining activities, in my opinion. At best it's exceedingly inconsiderate.

I still thinking booting anyone that does these things is appropriate and certainly requires no apology from you. Maybe the "moderation" here could be exactly what you did. Boot, but not ban. As far as muting, maybe that would send the right message, although for me, robbing me of a participating teammate is much less forgivable than the dribble.

Parrot, everything you articulated is spot on, my man. Karma for you.

Maybe just Maybe he had a traumatic experience as a child
That may be why he doesn't fly much.





It could happen........

Manfred wrote:

bzerkbzerk wrote: I have played in more than one game with pluribus and realized that attention he seeks and gets with any response. I have witnessed all of the above and some great flying at the same time. However I choose to ignore him and just play, if I responded to all the chat I would never complete a game.

Manfred I get where your coming from, can be frustrating, however you may have added fuel to the fire. Another reason to complain and whine, I found that if you ignore it long enough he gets silent.

I don't agree with the decision to kick anyone out due to griping, just saying. There is always one in a game that finds a way to make it fun or challenging. The challenge is to resist the urge to react negatively yourself.

After a lot of thinking, I have to agree with bzerk.

To many of the other posters, please note that I did NOT object to someone being unproductive in the mission, and I do NOT agree with you guys that unproductive pilots should be booted. People have their reasons. Sometimes I do too.

But I do not disrupt the game with negative comments! That was my sole objection. I suppose I don't know why the blues left, but since I myself was considering leaving, I felt it was safe to assume some effect on others. Yes, normally I ignore, even embrace it, in an Eeyore-like way. But in that game, incessant as it was, and with a game that was on the hairy brink the whole time, I could see the mission live or die with each additional discouragement. It just did not seem right.

But neither was kicking Pluribus from the game. Pluribus, I apologize for kicking you out of the game. That sort of thing is reserved for people who abuse others in the game. While irritating and annoying, your comments were not abuse. Zup did suggest muting you if it got to be a significant problem, but I do not see that as the right path either. If I have a problem in future games, I will simply leave. But I will try to view it as an interesting obstacle and additional challenge.

Manfred

Much too nice Manfred. Screw him for screwing everyone on his team. The worst of it is is that he's a halfway decent player when he wants to. There is nothing worse than getting your tail kicked from every direction only to have to try to respawn without crashing into him. He is absolutely disruptive and a major game spoiler. A regular Hanoi Jane... I'd ban the dude indefinitely. It's a good thing I'm not a mod, b/c he'd never get to play on that account again.

So yea, I can't stand his crap... You did nothing wrong by kicking him.

Crap, even a teamkiller is more fun... At least you can hound em till you get banned.... That guy is just a morale breaking waste of space.

I'll throw in my two cents...I wonder why he plays? He seems unhappy no matter what is happening so you have to wonder what he gets out of it at all. Kind of like trolling in my opinion. I will say my best laugh I got out of this whole thing is some one said to Pluri, "Hey man why don't you just leave.."
"It will just put me right back in..." he replied and for the rest of the game was Pluri leaving and rejoining like 15-20 times, never a new game and always same color! I guess this gets me back to my original point, why does he even log in to play? If everyone just left him to complain and said nothing to him would he stop? I foolishly tried to convince him once but no go...I even said I would dance while playing if he would play...and no amount of reporting my dancing or my plane shaking to convince him would cure him of his Eeyore-itis.

Jacklpe wrote:
Much too nice Manfred.

Absolutely
Manfred, I guess even without big words and a new karma machine gun fire you know that you are doing a great job. But this thread and your apology suggest to us that you have doubts.because of your decision.
Everyone can understand you, but we really want to let you know that there is no reason to doubt.
The job of a moderator is to keep the forum clean and the game alive.
And we just can say: THX FOR ALL!
I've no doubs but a question. What is the different between a traitor who bombs two of my hangars, and someone who reduces my team by 25% ?
He does not do it with malicious intent but he does it. A noob who doesn't stop to shoot blue gets warned by players and then banned by system. And Pluri is old enough to know what he does.

What I think about his behavior I already told him here
We don't need a double post.

Hmmm.

Is there anything to what Plur says about his skills? (or lack there of)
pluribus Air Chief Marshal II (29) 9631 4147 8661 6642 3717

He mentions poor eyesight and bad reaction time and he talks about his tactics as a strategy to cope with it. I find myself wondering if he is an octogenarian +/- who gets his kicks using odd tactics instead of raw skill to further his ranking. Others have frequently said that such "behavior" would be acceptable in a noob but not in a seasoned player. I asked him once if he minded me asking how old he is and he replied "yes I do." His temperment seems more that of someone with time on their hands than someone who has homework to do.

The "luck of the spawning" often has us in very uneven matches. It can be frustrating as hell but you don't have anyone to blame it on. Some of the uneven games are the most desperate challenges and best opprotunity for the pulling off some crazy stuff. When you are down 3 vs 4 and Plur spawns in your odds have improved. His stats show many bombed hangars. The reds should be aware that he might be going up and over. If they ignore that it might cost them the game.

IMHO Dogfight is a game with a very even mix of skill and strategy. Some rely more on one than the other. Someone who flies focusing only on skill and not strategy can be just as frustrating to play with. (It's a lot harder to vent on them.)

As frustrating as it is I don't see why Plur has any less right to play his style than anyone else does. (provided he is not causing crashes, etc.)I would hate to set a precident that it's okay to trash on someone whose tactics you don't like. That said, the negative comments are not helpful to team morale and it really would be nice if he would check it a bit.

McFate wrote: Hmmm.

Is there anything to what Plur says about his skills? (or lack there of)
pluribus Air Chief Marshal II (29) 9631 4147 8661 6642 3717

He mentions poor eyesight and bad reaction time and he talks about his tactics as a strategy to cope with it. I find myself wondering if he is an octogenarian +/- who gets his kicks using odd tactics instead of raw skill to further his ranking. Others have frequently said that such "behavior" would be acceptable in a noob but not in a seasoned player. I asked him once if he minded me asking how old he is and he replied "yes I do." His temperment seems more that of someone with time on their hands than someone who has homework to do.

The "luck of the spawning" often has us in very uneven matches. It can be frustrating as hell but you don't have anyone to blame it on. Some of the uneven games are the most desperate challenges and best opprotunity for the pulling off some crazy stuff. When you are down 3 vs 4 and Plur spawns in your odds have improved. His stats show many bombed hangars. The reds should be aware that he might be going up and over. If they ignore that it might cost them the game.

IMHO Dogfight is a game with a very even mix of skill and strategy. Some rely more on one than the other. Someone who flies focusing only on skill and not strategy can be just as frustrating to play with. (It's a lot harder to vent on them.)

As frustrating as it is I don't see why Plur has any less right to play his style than anyone else does. (provided he is not causing crashes, etc.)I would hate to set a precident that it's okay to trash on someone whose tactics you don't like. That said, the negative comments are not helpful to team morale and it really would be nice if he would check it a bit.

His tactics.... Sitting in the lake on fire telling his teammates that they are going to lose. Yea, he once was a serious player. Now, he just crashes out somewhere and demoralizes his team. He can say what he wants, but I'm sure there are a thousand people on here who have experienced his "tactics".

There are several players on here who primarily bomb. You won't here a peep from me about them. That's not what we are talking about at all.

All good thoughts. Here are my two points of disagreement/agreement. Well, two points anyway.

1) If you read carefully, I haven't posted against someone not playing, not playing well, or not playing to the best of their abilities. There can be many reasons. If Duckwing didn't happen to be a masterful combatant, would we have criticized his play? Hey I can't stay in most games more than a few minutes. Do people hold that against me? And I occasionally put the brakes on and take a call on the other phone (though some players think I'm sneaking) (well sometimes that's true). Is that a problem? As was mentioned here or perhaps in another thread, Zup has created a game that gives us many freedoms. We do WANT people to dig in and play well... but what kind of game would FORCE everyone to do that? And to whose standards?

2) What I DO have a problem with is the whining, negativism, and trolling. While taking up a spot on the team and not being really productive does impact the team, the constant stream of eeyore drivel makes me want to quit and try another game, but I DON'T want to quit, especially if I've invested effort into that mission, and also because I don't know if my game will quit quickly in the next game and I want to keep this mission going if I can. Also, if *I* want to leave, others on my team probably do too, and THAT'S a lot more impact than one guy taking up a slot... it's potentially several blue players leaving, and it sure looked that way on that day.

Again, I would have muted Plur on that day if the mod panel had been working and I could unmute him after some time period (without the panel, in-game mod actions are basically permanent, as they have been for a few weeks now). Instead, I kicked him, and that's not quite what I thought was fair. Zup has always told us,, if it can be dealt with using mute, just mute.

Plur, in your responses to date, you have avoided addressing the issue of spewing negatives, unless I missed a post. I can ultimately ignore it, but if my teammates leave because of it, THAT is a huge impact to a game. What of that? I'll tell ya, if you defend it as part of your "strategy", the rest of us should fill the screen with annoying XXXXXXXXXXXXXX's as "strategy". And then everyone should be muted for idiocy. And trolling.

Manfred

McFate,

I take no issue with someone that chooses to focus on one aspect of the game, as long as its furthering the collective objective of his team. If someone chooses to focus mainly on backdooring the hangars, fine. The phrase "Magic Time!" comes to mind and makes me smile.

What pluribus does that some damned frustrating is sitting on the runway or midfield taking up space. It leaves his team handicapped. If you're convinced you can't win a match and are so discouraged that you don't even want to try, don't make that decision for the rest of your team. LEAVE! Let me have an aspirant instead. At least they'll attempt to fly and at the very least potentially cause a distraction for a more skilled red and give the team a better chance. Nobody has the right to ruin a game for other players.

I joined a game last night that had been in progress for a while. I was the 3rd blue in against 5 reds. Everyone in the match was highly skilled. We had 3 hangars left to their 8. I stayed in that game for 3 hours. Most of it grossly outnumbered, but we held off the reds. Jacklpe was on the red side and was the only consistent player for their team. I stayed in for the blues. Odds shifted and we got them down to one hangar. Odds shifted back back to reds and we were feverishly defending again. Then at one point it went 2 on 2 with both sides holding their own. Then 1 on 1, me and Jacklpe. We discussed calling it a draw and both leaving and then decided not. Then Pluribus joined. I made it to their base and didn't encounter him. I knew he was flying and probably going high. Jacklpe got me in from of the red base. I spawned and went to defend high. I found pluribus and opened fire. He never returned a shot and auto destroyed before I could take him out. More players came and left but until the end, the reds had the numerical advantage. Pluribus attempted twice more to go high and both ended as the first had. I found him and he autodestroyed. By all rights Jacklpe and the reds COULD have had the advantage and SHOULD have won. What was the difference? Pluribus being a waste of space. In anyone of his 3 attempts in 45-60minutes of play, he could at least attempted to get passed me or shoot me down. He didn't even try. The rest of the time he sat there doing nothing. I took the last hangar and won the game. It was not the least bit satisfying. I knew I got because of the unfair advantage given me by pluribus. I sympathized with Jacklpe. I knew it was not a satisfying end of the game for him either. Three and half hours plus in a game and he loses like that.

So, my answer is "No", he doesn't have the right to play "his" style. "His" style impacts how others enjoy the game. Here I am the next day, still pissed because of "his" style.

Since he didn't answer the questions posed in my last post on the subject, I'll ask again.

1- do you know you're ruining games for others?
2- do you care?

His whining is less a thorn in my side, but still demoralizing to his team and equally disruptive for many other players. I consider it trolling.

I must say, PH (and others), I am *that* close to totally agreeing with you. I sure see your point.

But do you see even a sliver of my point? A wee little bit? I have to wonder, to whose standards must we play?

If we are both right, players like Pluribus should be tarred, feathered, banned for life, and strapped to the homepage as a warning for others. If neither of us are right... he should be the first inductee into Randy's Hall of Fame lol.

Manfred

Manfred wrote: I must say, PH (and others), I am *that* close to totally agreeing with you. I sure see your point.

But do you see even a sliver of my point? A wee little bit? I have to wonder, to whose standards must we play?

If we are both right, players like Pluribus should be tarred, feathered, banned for life, and strapped to the homepage as a warning for others. If neither of us are right... he should be the first inductee into Randy's Hall of Fame lol.

Manfred

I think I'll go nominate him!!!

Manfred. I see your point. But to "play to standards" one must first play. Getting a seat on the ground, subtracting from your teams ability, and spewing all of that we're gonna lose crap does not even count as playing.

Quit telling Manfred how to do his job and piss off. He's a good guy and hes a moderator for a reason chill.

Dpigg wrote: Quit telling Manfred how to do his job and piss off. He's a good guy and hes a moderator for a reason chill.

Who put a quarter in your slot? Nobody's telling Manny how to do his job. He posted, we replied. Piss off yourself.

Manfred,
I see your point. We all have life to deal with. Phone calls, wives, kids, small bladders... I'm not saying sitting out a minute or 2 is a unforgivable act. When I say everyone needs to contribute, that doesn't mean they have to play to ANY standard, except what I tell my Cub Scouts... Do your best. Nobody's "best" is "sit and bitch". If it is, go away.

Parrot... I'm hungry for some BBQ.

Dpigg, we are Manfreds biggest fans. We are well aware that he is a great mod. Now come on around back over here. I wanna show you my BBQ pit...

Squeal like a pig boy!!

Lol I like u jackle