Manfred wrote: Alexninja and everyone,

Bear with me, I'm just trying to put a cap on the perpetual nonsense flying around. Someone PM'd me, and I've been trying to catch up since. My understanding (correct me if I have any facts wrong):
- [e]missedninja (AlexNinja here) called someone "f***ing gay" in-game, in response to something
- The comment was followed by some discussion of balls, or lack of them, in response to something
- Another player reported this, directly to Wig
- Someone muted Alex
- Alex brought it to the Misfits thread. Unjust muting because of the word balls. Abuse of Power. Everyone dogpiled.

No one should be dropping the f-bomb in the game or the forum, regardless of what it is responding to. 13-year-olds and all that. Also, trying to insult someone by calling them gay is an insult to gay people, and is considered homophobic. But it's really all about the f-bomb. And I don't care about balls, unless someone is being too explicit in their context (I won't elaborate, but prior mutes and bans have been from exactly that).

So, whoever muted Alex is totally correct. In fact, if not for my little weekend research project on this and the multiple PM's for which I've had to wait for responses, and for having to comb through a squad's thread to find the relevant pieces, Alex could have been unmuted long ago.

Now, Wig has been away from the game and forum for a couple weeks, or at least spending only occasional time here. He did not mute Alex. Most of the mods have responded to my query on the mod forum, and all say No so far. We haven't heard from Zup, as he is away for several days.

A lesson for all of us. Firstly, use the Blacklist thread when these things come up. I've said it before, a public forum is actually the BEST place to do this. Moderators have an exceptional power and responsibility in being able to mute and ban, and it needs to be done publicly, for transparency and open communication. Even when someone needs to send us a PM because the content is not postable, we should conduct the ban/mute on the blacklist thread, so that it's (a) searchable, (b) disputable, (c) posted in real-time and therefore un-alterable (well, except for Edit command, but that is obvious), and (d) transparent and showing no shenanigans. There are a few bans that stay off the forum, mostly because the game names just by themselves are so offensive, and what's the use of posting if you can't reference the name? So I keep a log of those, in case someone complains - notice that we always ask, what was your game name when you were banned?

Secondly, we shouldn't jump to conclusions without facts. The bandwagon effect is very interesting to watch. Devoid of facts, an accusation can be dogpiled and suddenly it's as good as true and verified. Another reason to keep those sorts of things on the blacklist thread, so facts can be brought to bear quickly.

Thirdly, and this is sounding like a broken record, keeping player complaints on the blacklist thread helps the mods to monitor fewer threads. Certainly DON'T post these complaints on a squad thread, unless you don't want action. It's really tough to scour through a squad thread looking for specific information. Those threads, by definition, are for monkeying around, inside jokes, and general squad business, all very challenging reading for someone who isn't in the squad.

Alex is now unmuted. Questions?

Manfred

thanks for letting us now Manfred and was there ever proof of these alleged accuations such as screenshots? and I hope we all can learn from this experience and through it a better DF community will grow and mature!!!!!

It's time you know the truth as to what occurred. (edited to make presentable)

I entered a BTB game.
I bomb 3.
watch ur back: (ladies garden)
MISSEDNINJA: yea
The rudeness had begun and it continued non-stop.

I warned them several times as their demeanor infected other players.
Laughed at and the rudeness escalated.

The Kindle needs 2 buttons pushed simultaneously (power) to take pics.
Difficult without losing connection.

In addition to the vulgarity, homophobic comments were made (see post on M.O.M thread).
The pic below is to show who was participating at that moment. I apologize in advance for posting.
I have been called many things in my life and it doesn't brother me because I know they come from a weak mind. However, other's were present.


Part of the message is hidden for the guests. Please log in or register to see it.


I pmed the info/pics to a mod. I don't make muting/unmuting decisions.
I respected the system as I was directed by a mod.

Some comments made here and another thread, by the uninformed, I find disagreeable.

I didn't include the homosexual comments made in my report.
Those were brought up by someone else during the investigation by the squad leader.
After ALEX denied he said things that are inappropriate.
Whether they were directed at me or not, they were INAPPROPRIATE.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

Magic again that was directed at watch your back cuz if you read his comment

Paul Mantz, Jr. wrote: It's time you know the truth as to what occurred. (edited to make presentable)

I entered a BTB game.
I bomb 3.
watch ur back: (ladies garden)
MISSEDNINJA: yea
The rudeness had begun and it continued non-stop.

I warned them several times as their demeanor infected other players.
Laughed at and the rudeness escalated.

The Kindle needs 2 buttons pushed simultaneously (power) to take pics.
Difficult without losing connection.

In addition to the vulgarity, homophobic comments were made (see post on M.O.M thread).
The pic below is to show who was participating at that moment. I apologize in advance for posting.
I have been called many things in my life and it doesn't brother me because I know they come from a weak mind. However, other's were present.


Part of the message is hidden for the guests. Please log in or register to see it.


I pmed the info/pics to a mod. I don't make muting/unmuting decisions.
I respected the system as I was directed by a mod.

Some comments made here and another thread, by the uninformed, I find disagreeable.

I didn't include the homosexual comments made in my report.
Those were brought up by someone else during the investigation by the squad leader.
After ALEX denied he said things that are inappropriate.
Whether they were directed at me or not, they were INAPPROPRIATE.

I hope this clears things up a bit.

the only thing I saw on the mom thread is video and comments saying what alex had said I did not see any screenshot I went back in the thread as far as 6 days in which this hasn't been going on for a week soo im not saying that ur lying its just the only thing we have seen so far is alex saying balls and he was quit frankly defending himself and why wasn't this guy called.. watch your back muted after all look what he said in the screenshot are you targeting us misfits paul? as for lack of evidence there is none other than alex saying balls unless you want to show us all? we would be glad too see it we live in a world where it is your word vs his that's why u have to have prove and also I saw nothing about gay or anthing that is unless again you have a screenshot thank you I rest my case

Randy i did say " thats f***ing gay" the next day but i said" thats f~*** ing gay" it was not directed any way at anybody i siad that because the lag kept gettin me killed so still if the mod had read the comment correctly this whole situation wouldn't be neasasary!

Randy why in the world would Paul specifically target the misfits? Now as far as defending himself, I belive that could've gone 2 ways.
1st: he could've just said calm down and ignore him. This works the majority of the times this has happened to me
2nd(the way alex went): return fire and risk being caught.
I'm not saying balls is a badword but in the world we live it implies content.

You know randy was just trying to help so stop being so protective randy was tryig to do good

Alexninja wrote: You know randy was just trying to help so stop being so protective randy was tryig to do good

So by accusing Paul of specially targeting the misfits is now called helping? Alex I respect you and the squad but did you really have to go that far?
No hurt feeling intended.

Paul Mantz, Jr. wrote: It's time you know the truth as to what occurred. (edited to make presentable)

I entered a BTB game.
I bomb 3.
watch ur back: (ladies garden)
MISSEDNINJA: yea
The rudeness had begun and it continued non-stop.

I warned them several times as their demeanor infected other players.
Laughed at and the rudeness escalated.

The Kindle needs 2 buttons pushed simultaneously (power) to take pics.
Difficult without losing connection.

In addition to the vulgarity, homophobic comments were made (see post on M.O.M thread).
The pic below is to show who was participating at that moment. I apologize in advance for posting.
I have been called many things in my life and it doesn't brother me because I know they come from a weak mind. However, other's were present.

(pic)

Thanks for the posting the pic here. And since these are equal opportunity rules, "watch ur back" is muted.
Manfred

well not saying paul is targeting us jw why alex and not the other guy also? u know what I mean unless the gay comment was paul thinking it was directed at him and in so in a sense getting back at him and again not saying paul repoted alex for revenge anyway and sputnik sorry for my comment earlier I did not meanto offend you if u were offended

No no hurt feelings here randy. But Paul is the type of person that likes to keep the game safe and clean for others to enjoy. Knowing him i believe he gives out warning before he reports.

Alexninja wrote: Randy i did say " thats f***ing gay" the next day but i said" thats f~*** ing gay" it was not directed any way at anybody i siad that because the lag kept gettin me killed so still if the mod had read the comment correctly this whole situation wouldn't be neasasary!

How about substituting "lame, annoying, frustrating or something along those lines?"
Last I checked, "gay," means happy, or colloquially, homosexual. Lag makes no one happy, and I don't think the latter definition fits the context either. Perhaps then your statements would not be misconstrued, nor would you sound intolerant.

I was intolerant cuz of the stupid lag and i use the word gay not correctly on perpose to get my meaning around; being intolerant

Alexninja wrote: I was intolerant cuz of the stupid lag and i use the word gay not correctly on perpose to get my meaning around; being intolerant

That clears it up; you really don't get it.

I can't report anyone if I don't have any screenshots/credible witnesses as proof, huh?

The pic demonstrates a snapshot of the moment.

Sorry, I don't have a video of the game. It would demonstrate that this and many other comments were directed at me. It would also get an R-rating. XXX if the ****'s were not there.

I post very few complaints. My files are full of pics. It takes something extraordinary for me to spend my time every time.

I reported both pilots to a mod. I pmed GREYGHOST.
I followed the established chain of command, unless I am mistaken.
I didn't race here to report to all of you, because I honored my word that I would wait until any action was taken.
The next thing I knew, ALEX announced that he was banned. That was someone else's decision. I cannot ban.

It was out of respect for all concerned and for all of you, including the MISFITS & ALEX himself, that I maintained my silence.
I never mentioned the problem in the STAR CHAMBER.
They were not the chain of command.
I would do the same thing again for you.

I don't believe that public humiliation is necessary all the time.
Some here are here because they need to belong somewhere.
WE are their family. Some are fragile in some way. Consider that. Respect that.

I wouldn't want to embarrass you in front of your peers without a darn good reason. Just as a boss, I don't do it to my employees.

I'm confident that some will learn something from all of this.
I know, I have.

Hey Paul,

I'm understanding more details with each post. Alex says he dropped the f-bomb in a *later* game than the one documented, in reference to lag. But anyone who "gets" the rules understands that regarding the f-bomb and a few other choice words, it's actually the word that needs to be avoided.

Anyway, the timing is a bit of a nit. But it's important to your post. The one flaw in the Private and Considerate chain of command that you followed was this: Apparently a moderator saw Alexninja/missedninja in that later game, and muted him, probably using the in-game command and not posting to the blacklist thread. I do that sometimes, although I don't recall Alex. I'm sure other mods do it too.

Continuing on my point: Reliability of the private chain of command requires that no one else sees Alex's colorful language in other instances. You witnessed and privately passed on some chatting that was abusive, was a little bit in the gray area for language, and required some judgment. I venture to guess that this grayness was one of the reasons you passed it along privately. As it stands, I personally would not have muted Alex for the balls stuff (although looking closely, we do see that Watch Ur Back did cross the line and I've recently muted him). However, as Alex is fully admitting though not getting, he later pitched an f-bomb across the airwaves (and folks please notice that, in order to do that, he clearly wasn't muted yet). This one got picked up by a mod, and Alex was muted. Again, probably in-game, and nothing appeared here on the blacklist thread.

Anyway, we all do learn from these things, and I hope one takeaway is that a private act of consideration on your part can be undone by repeated propensity for vulgarity by the other. Some people, we just can't help.

Manfred

I could have sworn i heard a wise man say, its been cleared up so drop the subject.

bomer1 wrote: I could have sworn i heard a wise man say, its been cleared up so drop the subject.

yes you did. I have trouble with that myself!

Luna6 wrote: I can't report anyone if I don't have any screenshots/credible witnesses as proof, huh?

You can, but it helps if you (a) have some credibility, like a history of integrity and maturity, (b) describe relevant details, (c) are available to chime in for backup if the person complains. I think you are fine. Oh wait, was that a rhetorical question? It's late and I'm a bit dense.
Manfred

I played over 1 hour today and didn´t see any teamkilling, any bad language or any spawn killing. Even aspirants were driving their tanks in right direction towards enemy base. If they could find one.

Just the way I like it.

Spirited

Teamkiller, killed me three times in one match, warned after the first time (i was attempting to warn him while or before he first killed me.) shot at another new guy and ended up with multiple blues trying to kill him.

This was during a zep game where I was German, so naturally, I'm pissed!!

He stated I was "target practice."

Blue Dane is about to post a picture of a comment i made when I was joking about some shooting there own hangars. I wouldn't want someone on my team to shoot my own hangars and I wouldn't want someone to shoot his. The game had been going on for 45 min since I joined. Baron vin salsburg had 75 kills.

AND HERE IT IS......

Raphael Almeida

This team killer also tried to bomb own hangers from a tank.
An asp so I guess it is expected from some, what I don't like is Dixie egging him on.

Yes I lost my temper and yes I told him he was an arse and if the game was too long for him, quit!! I was annoyed and will take my punishment but I stand by my comments.

XxDaRhinoxX banned for two days, shooting at blues in BTB game.
Manfred

Reporting redbaron01 for racism and language.

I have the one where he tells big tex he xxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx if needed. (EDIT by Manfred: nasty!)

[e]Sputnik wrote: Reporting redbaron01 for racism and language.

I have the one where he tells big tex he xxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx if needed. (EDIT by Manfred: nasty!)

Mute this idiot, but for gods sake don't ban him. Please don't deny us the pleasure. What a Mo-Ron!

ParrotHead wrote:

[e]Sputnik wrote: Reporting redbaron01 for racism and language.
(image)
I have the one where he tells big tex he xxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxx if needed.

Mute this idiot, but for gods sake don't ban him. Please don't deny us the pleasure. What a Mo-Ron!

Redbaron01 muted indefinitely. Not banned however. Now I don't want to see any of you teamkilling the bugger.
Manfred

BlueDane wrote: AND HERE IT IS......

Raphael Almeida

This team killer also tried to bomb own hangers from a tank.
An asp so I guess it is expected from some, what I don't like is Dixie egging him on.

Yes I lost my temper and yes I told him he was an arse and if the game was too long for him, quit!! I was annoyed and will take my punishment but I stand by my comments.

Rafael almeida is banned for 2 days. Hopefully he will get the message. Or come onto the forum and get it. The aspirant needs some education.

BlueDane will suffer five lashes for using the word arse. Fifteen more for the word quit.

Dixieconfederate will suffer a lecture. I know you mean well. But there is a time to joke, and a time... never mind, it's always time to joke, it's a game. But make sure they are actually funny. Because when they're not, they are, well, annoying. Given some of the things you have posted to the forum, I would think that one of your goals is to connect with people, rather than annoy them. Plus, in this case, you probably caused poor rafael to get the ban; without your comments, I might have concluded that he probably understands what he did was wrong. However your comments may have made him think that what he did was ok, and that's not a good result.

Manfred

At 2:30am est.
I bombed the wrong base for 3.
5 min.ban.
Long game with 6 total hangars remaining.
4 good players.
I got distracted and was flying plane without watching.
I apologize to the others.
Both flights.
Coffee worth it.
Sorry.
No pics of cup.