Anyone is using or tried to play Dogfight with a joystick on a PC?
Successful?
I tried, but not good.
Hoping for a bit of help.

Sir Gannet I am using Logitech F710 game controller. Working fine with DF and DF elite.

I just picked up a Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS X, it works fine on DF Elite, but on Dogfight I start rolling to the right as soon as my wheels leave the ground.

Do you guys get a big dead angle in the middle of the joystick movement?
I was given an xbox 360 clone, it works correctly, but fine control is impossible as speed because of a dead zone in the middle, both x and y directions.
(I want to know if the problem is in that controller, or in the way Dogfight interprets the signals from all joysticks)

Gannet wrote: Do you guys get a big dead angle in the middle of the joystick movement?
I was given an xbox 360 clone, it works correctly, but fine control is impossible as speed because of a dead zone in the middle, both x and y directions.
(I want to know if the problem is in that controller, or in the way Dogfight interprets the signals from all joysticks)

Not with my game pad as it has 8 Way Direction Key. Go only for Logitech F710 as there is F310 wired also but it's not as good as F710. Just google for this game pad for more information.

What do you mean "8 way direction key" ?
Don't you fly using one of the joysticky buttons thingys?

It looks very similar to the xbox360, just a rearrangement of the same controls ?

Gannet wrote: Do you guys get a big dead angle in the middle of the joystick movement?
I was given an xbox 360 clone, it works correctly, but fine control is impossible as speed because of a dead zone in the middle, both x and y directions.
(I want to know if the problem is in that controller, or in the way Dogfight interprets the signals from all joysticks)

That may be what is giving me problems in Elite. I got the joystick because I wanted to get away from the inherent "oversteering" of the keyboard arrow keys when aiming, but it seems like I'm having a similar issue with the joystick. Could it be that now I'm oversteering the joystick because I'm getting sluggish or no response in that dead zone?

In Dogfight 1, I just get the death cartwheel to the right as soon as my wheels leave the ground, and it continually cycles through options on the selection screens like I’m leaning on the TAB key.
.

Sounds like its behaving very similar to the xbox one. I put a short extension on the joystick button so I could control it better.
If you slowly move the stick from left to right, the turning goes from hard left gradually to gentle left, then to straight, stays straight for an angle, then starts gentle right gradually increasing to hard right.
Like that?
Controllable slowly, but pretty hopeless trying to aim at turnfighting speed.

Mine behaves the same in both versions of DF, so I don't know what your issue is there.
There is an option in the software driver for recalibrating, you could try that.

Anyone else tried to deal with this issue?

S. E. Dailey wrote:

Gannet wrote: Do you guys get a big dead angle in the middle of the joystick movement?
I was given an xbox 360 clone, it works correctly, but fine control is impossible as speed because of a dead zone in the middle, both x and y directions.
(I want to know if the problem is in that controller, or in the way Dogfight interprets the signals from all joysticks)

That may be what is giving me problems in Elite. I got the joystick because I wanted to get away from the inherent "oversteering" of the keyboard arrow keys when aiming, but it seems like I'm having a similar issue with the joystick. Could it be that now I'm oversteering the joystick because I'm getting sluggish or no response in that dead zone?

In Dogfight 1, I just get the death cartwheel to the right as soon as my wheels leave the ground, and it continually cycles through options on the selection screens like I’m leaning on the TAB key.
.

I've tried the driver recalibration. It shows everything is prefect. I've tightened the resistance spring down as far as it will go, and that seems to help some. Practice is also helping me adapt.

I had one of the old Thrustmaster "Top Gun" joysticks several years ago. With it, I think you could not only recalibrate it, you could also go in and pretty much set keyboard commands to correspond with the buttons as you pleased. Unfortunately, the newer Thrustmaster seems to only let you swap their previously set button functions around with each other. Twelve or so buttons between the stick and the throttle, but I still have to go to the keyboard to switch between cockpit/3rd person views.

Gannet wrote: Sounds like its behaving very similar to the xbox one. I put a short extension on the joystick button so I could control it better.
If you slowly move the stick from left to right, the turning goes from hard left gradually to gentle left, then to straight, stays straight for an angle, then starts gentle right gradually increasing to hard right.
Like that?
Controllable slowly, but pretty hopeless trying to aim at turnfighting speed.

Mine behaves the same in both versions of DF, so I don't know what your issue is there.
There is an option in the software driver for recalibrating, you could try that.

Anyone else tried to deal with this issue?

i use an xbox controller. i have tried a couple different brands, but the straight up xbox one seems to work best as far as sensitivity and stick control.

i bought a Logitech "Extreme 3D Pro Joystick for Windows" hoping to mop the floor with all comers, only to find that the calibration software does not recognize dogfight as a program it can be configured for ( because it's an "app? ) if anyone can suggest a solution for that problem i would be very greatful.

otherwise the xbox controller works fine for me except for i think i've sprained my thumb...

(i'm running Win 10)

I don't know if it’s worth paying the price (about $50 on Amazon), but you might give the Thrustmaster T.16000M a look.

It uses something called HALLEFFECT ACCURATE TECHNOLOGY (H.E.A.R.T.) which employs magnetic sensors to offer precision levels that they claim are 256 times more accurate than current systems.

Here's the downside of the deal, it will probably work in Dogfight Elite, but (based the performance of my T.Flight HOTAS X) the odds are good that it might not even be usable in Dogfight.

I've talked to Zup about this issue. We're dealing with two different game engines between the two games, and the one used in DF 1 has some inherent problems when it comes to joysticks (you can thank Unity for that problem, not Echoboom).

Gannet wrote: Do you guys get a big dead angle in the middle of the joystick movement?
I was given an xbox 360 clone, it works correctly, but fine control is impossible as speed because of a dead zone in the middle, both x and y directions.
(I want to know if the problem is in that controller, or in the way Dogfight interprets the signals from all joysticks)

Hmmm....
I've been doing a little internet research and it appears deadzone sizes are set by the individual games. Not the hardware. This seemed to fit my experiments, I've pulled my xbox controller apart, and the joystick variable resistor values are definitely changing through the center deadzone, so it seems to be a software induced deadzone.
Then you come along airwolf and blow up the theory.
How come yours is ok and mine is not?
Are you using the joystick "gradually", or maybe like a three position switch? left/centre/right ?

airwolff wrote: i use an xbox controller. i have tried a couple different brands, but the straight up xbox one seems to work best as far as sensitivity and stick control.

i bought a Logitech "Extreme 3D Pro Joystick for Windows" hoping to mop the floor with all comers, only to find that the calibration software does not recognize dogfight as a program it can be configured for ( because it's an "app? ) if anyone can suggest a solution for that problem i would be very greatful.

otherwise the xbox controller works fine for me except for i think i've sprained my thumb...

(i'm running Win 10)

Interesting guys..keep at it. I've talked with Zup about thi many times but still remains inconclusive. I've tried Saitek,Thrustmaster and the Logitech 3d pro...nothing works. I have an old microsoft sidewinder that does work for flight,trigger and bomb but not with throttle.I must use on screen throttle...good thing I have a touchscreen!
I've heard you can bypass and program stuff to work as an Xbox configuration but I'm not tech savvy enough to do that.
Some good old links for perusing...
dogfightplay.com/index.php/forum/2-gossi...411-joysticks#243245

dogfightplay.com/index.php/forum/2-gossi...r-windows-8-1#162265

I would be very interested to hear about that bypass; was that with a specific joystick?

BTW, an update on using the Thrustmaster with Elite. It works, but not perfectly. The throttle is odd; the center position detent is neutral (zero) position, moving it forward from there accelerates, but it won't start to decelerate until you get back past the center position. The opposite applies for decelerating.

Tanking won't work with it. You can drive the tank, you can make it fire in either view, but you cannot aim the cannon. I finally noticed what was going on this morning; the cannon is locked straight up in the air.

This model joystick supports twisting to control the rudder (for games that have rudder control available). In DF Elite, twisting left drops the nose, twisting right raises it, and if your in the tank in rotates the turret.

Templar wrote: Interesting guys..keep at it. I've talked with Zup about thi many times but still remains inconclusive. I've tried Saitek,Thrustmaster and the Logitech 3d pro...nothing works. I have an old microsoft sidewinder that does work for flight,trigger and bomb but not with throttle.I must use on screen throttle...good thing I have a touchscreen!
I've heard you can bypass and program stuff to work as an Xbox configuration but I'm not tech savvy enough to do that.

I've been using the xbox 360 controller for at least a year and a half. I think I was level 20 or 21...somewhere in there. I'm on win 10 now. A couple months ago, it updated itself and nothing worked. So I somehow figured out how to get rid of that update and return to the previous version. No problems.

I must say that it is not perfect and takes a lot of time to get used to it.

Also, my anti-virus software caused it to not work so I think I had to disable a firewall for it to function.

My wife and daughter bought me a Thrustmaster Flightstick for Father's day last year. Far too complicated to use for Dogfight for me anyway. Even using it for another game like Warthunder, (that's probably a swear word around here) I find it just too complicated. If you master that control for this game, I tip my hat to you!

Bluefighter is also quite knowledgeable on controllers; I think he already mentioned that he uses a logitech 710...similar to the xbox controller, but the d pad and left joystick are reversed I think.

Ok, I've rambled on enough...

Gannet wrote: Hmmm....
I've been doing a little internet research and it appears deadzone sizes are set by the individual games. Not the hardware. This seemed to fit my experiments, I've pulled my xbox controller apart, and the joystick variable resistor values are definitely changing through the center deadzone, so it seems to be a software induced deadzone.
Then you come along airwolf and blow up the theory.
How come yours is ok and mine is not?
Are you using the joystick "gradually", or maybe like a three position switch? left/centre/right ?

---

i do use the stick very gradually at range, when enemies get closer and i have to react quickly i wind up tap-tapping it to zero in. it's taken some getting used to and is somewhat imprecise. i've tried 4 different controllers to see if some work better, but the xbox one seems to be the best.

i guess that's the 'dead zone' you're talking about.

S. E. Dailey wrote: I would be very interested to hear about that bypass; was that with a specific joystick?

Yes there are a few public domain programs that might be relevant. (eg one designed to take input from other joysticks, and output it as though it came from an xbox.) Some of them might help because they allow adjustment of the deadzone size. However they seem to involve producing a dll file and dumping it in the games directory, but DF doesn't seem to have a conventional directory with dll libraries and exec files, not that I can find.
Can any one help? Where is DF on a PC?

Airwolf, sounds like your Xbox is working like mine, with a deadzone.

My theory is the deadzone is not in the hardware, its software induced. Could be in one of three places:
1. Inside the xbox controller. Could explain why some controllers are better than others.
2. In the Microsoft driver on the PC. Some games need a deadzone. It would be typical of MS not to provide adjustment.
3. In DF. Maybe put in by Zup to reduce the advantage joysticks have????

Anyone got a better theory?
Zuperman interested in commenting?

Gannet wrote:
Yes there are a few public domain programs that might be relevant. (eg one designed to take input from other joysticks, and output it as though it came from an xbox.) Some of them might help because they allow adjustment of the deadzone size. However they seem to involve producing a dll file and dumping it in the games directory, but DF doesn't seem to have a conventional directory with dll libraries and exec files, not that I can find.
Can any one help? Where is DF on a PC?

this is what i was struggling with concerning my joystick. DF is run as an "app" even on the PC. as such, i cannot find precisely where the "program" itself resides, thus i can't point the configure software to it.

The program is in a "hidden" file called WindowApps or something like that. You have to check the box under view for "hidden items" to be able to see it. Personally, I would treat it as a look but don't touch file. Apparently, a bad Windows update took me out of DF1 for about three days.

I can only imagine what would happen if you messed with the wrong thing in your game file.

I can pm you the names of a couple public domain programs that might interest you. I've tried one of them; it didn't work in DF1, but it does work for me in Elite.

airwolff wrote:

Gannet wrote:
Yes there are a few public domain programs that might be relevant. (eg one designed to take input from other joysticks, and output it as though it came from an xbox.) Some of them might help because they allow adjustment of the deadzone size. However they seem to involve producing a dll file and dumping it in the games directory, but DF doesn't seem to have a conventional directory with dll libraries and exec files, not that I can find.
Can any one help? Where is DF on a PC?

this is what i was struggling with concerning my joystick. DF is run as an "app" even on the PC. as such, i cannot find precisely where the "program" itself resides, thus i can't point the configure software to it.

S. E. Dailey wrote: The program is in a "hidden" file called WindowApps or something like that. You have to check the box under view for "hidden items" to be able to see it. Personally, I would treat it as a look but don't touch file. Apparently, a bad Windows update took me out of DF1 for about three days.

I can only imagine what would happen if you messed with the wrong thing in your game file.

I can pm you the names of a couple public domain programs that might interest you. I've tried one of them; it didn't work in DF1, but it does work for me in Elite.

airwolff wrote:

Gannet wrote:
Yes there are a few public domain programs that might be relevant. (eg one designed to take input from other joysticks, and output it as though it came from an xbox.) Some of them might help because they allow adjustment of the deadzone size. However they seem to involve producing a dll file and dumping it in the games directory, but DF doesn't seem to have a conventional directory with dll libraries and exec files, not that I can find.
Can any one help? Where is DF on a PC?

this is what i was struggling with concerning my joystick. DF is run as an "app" even on the PC. as such, i cannot find precisely where the "program" itself resides, thus i can't point the configure software to it.

No use, you can't configure your controller with the game. It's possible in windows 8.1 only.

[NLR] The Blue Fighter wrote: No use, you can't configure your controller with the game. It's possible in windows 8.1 only.

You can, however, use a keyboard emulation program to configure a joystick to work with DF Elite in Windows 10. Since the emulation program runs independent of DFE you're not messing with the game program itself.

The problem with the DF1 game engine is that it either works with your controller or it doesn't. Zup fixed a lot more than cosmetic things when he built DFE; it seems much more friendly to joysticks. There isn't an ingame gui to allow for custom Thrustmaster configuration or anything like that (it's on my wish list ) , but it will at least work with my joystick, and I can find ways to assign key functions outside of DFE.

An update for those who were following this topic.

I have now carefully taken one of my xbox360 joystick potentiometers (variable resistors) apart, and by measuring, found the deadspot range is deliberately built into them.

So for my xbox360 (clone) there will be no way of removing or reducing the central dead zone using software. It needs a hardware alteration. Possibly different brands of joystick use different resistors, (see Blue fighters comments) , so may offer hope for those who have money to throw at toys. Not me.

the Logitec 710 seems to have a smoother action and better zero than the xbox controller...

I just had a driver issue because of the odd computer i chose, it doesn't like the logitec software ... the xbox driver works for it tho