There are so many people who complain how others play that it limits the possibility of using advanced strategy in the game. Please consider dedicating a server in Dogfight elite for "anything goes" playing.

This would allow for all types of players including those who view spawn killing, dropping, sneaking etc. to have real battles instead of upsetting those who believe everyone needs to play in a way they consider proper or fair. Only team killing would be against the rules here.

The other servers could have the extensive list of rules strictly enforced where the only consequences for breaking said rules would be to be banned from the "kiddie pool". (Not sure what else to call it.)

I guess they could just be the "Advanced" servers and the "Normal" servers.

This would solve a lot of the friction among players with different philosophical views on gaming.

Maybe call the 2 versions of the game "Street Fighting" and "Queensberry rules" ?

But you're forgetting the psychological mandate of the troll . . .

You will have just enough guys that will go to the kiddie pool for the sole purpose of point farming through spawn killing, glitching and camping to make it a problem. If it is as passively policed as it has been in the past, the same problems will continue that we face now.
Aggressively enforcing an extensive list of rules just doesn't seem to fit Zup's philosophical vision for the game; at the very least, funding the infrastructure required by such an undertaking doesn't agree with his budget.

This would not be a major change. Scratch the "kiddie pool" label. Basically there would only need to be one (or more) server labeled as "Advanced". Basically "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here".
This would be a server where people can really fight without worrying about the sensitivity of those who want to define limiting how you play as "honor".

It's not going to be for trolls. If you read through the forum carefully you'll see that there are many who enjoy the challenge of spawn killers, campers and sneaks. Many say these things are only bad for the game because it allows higher skilled players to take advantage of those without the skills of upgrades to handle it.

There is already a system in place for separating noobs from the main servers until they work up some higher rank or stats... Maybe there could also be a server dedicated to the lower tier planes...as if it were earlier in the war before the upper tier planes made their debut.

Hmm... 2 "early" servers, 2 "Normal" servers and 2 "advanced"?


This is not to separate "trolls". There is nothing trolling about entering a game where everyone there is aware that the gloves have come off. This just provides a space for those with the courage to face whatever is thrown at them and to fight however you see fit without getting whined because you're ruining someone's picnic.

the only problem i see with that idea is for those who don't have access to all the servers due to connection speed...

i still can only play my closest server without lagging

Nebular wrote: the only problem i see with that idea is for those who don't have access to all the servers due to connection speed...

i still can only play my closest server without lagging

Good point.

Though zup has already eluded to some sort of different servers once the WW2 features are added....I mean really, imagine a dh2 facing a Spitfire.

Mcfate you really do talk out of your Ass,how dare you call people that play the game fairly a kiiddi pool,I've played sports all my life
And was tought to play with with honour and fair play,99% of players on here play with honour unlike you,I just can't uderstand How you could get any satisfaction from killing folk that are sat on the runway,go play another game.

Gizmo. wrote: Mcfate you really do talk out of your Ass,how dare you call people that play the game fairly a kiiddi pool,I've played sports all my life
And was tought to play with with honour and fair play,99% of players on here play with honour unlike you,I just can't uderstand How you could get any satisfaction from killing folk that are sat on the runway,go play another game.

What would be "unfair" about it if everyone who chose the server knew what they were in for? I know exactly what I'm suggesting and I think it would open up so many more complexities and nuances if people would just go full out and fight. Sure not everyone would want to play that way... again, that's the point of a separate server for it.

Every time someone brings up "real warfare" or "war simulator" someone comes and says "....but this is a game! I come here to relax." Fine. Relax in a relaxing server. There are people here who would like to fight tooth and nail, to use real team strategy, to play with deceit, trickery and with full intention of destroying the enemy and everything they hold dear. Personally I'm more on the other side and prefer playing as an underdog. Nothing gets my adrenaline going like being on the down side of an uneven game. Many players have mentioned how they get a rush out of evicting a camper... Why? Probably because they share a common perspective as this.

Kiddie pool? Sorry if the term bugs you, you probably aren't alone. I won't use it anymore. I'm not trying to piss people off. I'm just annoyed that the game is so watered down that the unfairness of war is reviled here. Look at history... The Fokker scourge? Planes with forward facing machine guns taking out unarmed spotters? Unfair? Damn right! So what happened next? ... The allies got their brains going and looked for ways to counter the threat. Innovation, creative thinking.... What enemies ever gave up an advantage because the enemy complained?

It's understandable that a noob would feel abused by a spawn killer, but anyone in the top 100 who can't handle it?... Give me a break.

You know what, Gizmo is right. Many of us like to play the game fair and try not to get the upper hand on all that are in the game. It's very clear that when a lower rank in a starter plane is thrown into the mix of top players in top planes that they stand no chance at all when these top players are flying bombless.

McFate, you kiddie pool comment doesn't phase me but is over the top because it's doesn't fit in to what you are trying to say. I have no issue with playing an all out game as you say if it were a fair match and not one where we throw in players to be sitting ducks for easy kills. I for one try to respect my fellow lower rank players by not having to get the upper hand on them by using all available tactics to do so. See it's not a kiddie pool as you like to refer to it because there's a mix of the best and the beginners. So it's more of a let's all take a dip in the piss pot pool. Some of us prefer not dropping a turd in that pool where others do.

Here is where you are right. I too would like to see an all out option in the game. There should be some requirements though. For example you need to be at least a level 23 player and at least have a tier 5 plane. This creates a real challenge and more of a balanced field.

For me to take on the style of play that you say we whine about in games the way things are set up now is not how I am nor many others here. It's not that we can't handle it, it's because we do not feel the need to beat up on those who would stand no chance against us. Maybe it's just how I feel but I do believe some share this same feeling.

Also you often speak of your "Meta" ways of playing and using tactics. Yes your right to an extent that they work. Lol...funny you call it "Meta" and make it seems like you are the only one that knows how to use certain tactics to get the win. Maybe I will call my tactics "Funzzz with Gunzzz" because dang I know they are quite effective. Lol...I think most of us top guys know what to do and will be very effective using these skills in a playing field that you are referring to.

Botton line is this. The way the game is set up now most of the games are decided by who has the better players on that side and very seldom come down to who is using tactics. How many games have I been in where I am pretty much the one keeping my team alive and even the thought of sneaking for me is not an option. Sure I can send a noob to go try but if I am lucky that noob may be successful 1 out of 10 runs. Then there is the red team, stacked with good players yet find it necessary to sneak against me. Sure I may hold them off here and there but eventually I will be unable to keep it up especially when these reds are also dropping, glitching or anything along these lines.

Well I take that as a compliment that they actually had to resort to this style to get the win so no lose for me no matter what the score board says at the end. Meanwhile they are all celebrating like they have accomplished something so great in successfully burning a hanger along the way. Lmao...I really do find that amazing. That's not being tactical, that's being desperate to win the game in any way possible.

That is not who I am or how I play the game. It's not that I can't, it's because it's too easy.

Make the playing field even and I am in for your everything goes play. I would actually look foward to it. As Dailey said though I can guarantee it will not go smoothly. Maybe less accusations but it will just be another place to argue over the same issues we do now.

I do get what you are trying to say and do like the idea. Trying to get it to that point is another story and having the game actually run smoothly without any issues, well we can all dream.

Fate I agree with you This people who spawnkill sneak spawn camp etc are the people I like to play but for why you ask Because one simple answer it makes it a challenge to play more so then OK boys fly up the middle and don't drop ur bombs cause that's not fair. War is not fair never was fair you name me one war both sides told each other which way they were going to attack how high they would fly or how many people would be in one place. You do that then I'll believe war is fair game or not this DogFight which is war kids so act like it . Now that being said I'm out Long live DOGFIGHT ELITE!!! Even tho its dead right now lol

It sounds like you understand what I'm getting at here. But please don't think I'm trying to say this will make everything run smoothly or that it will bring an end to trolling. Trolls would still be trolls but the place might attract some more serious gamers. There are definitely some players from the past who would give it another shot.

This would be like the party after the kids have gone to bed...a time to pitch Wang-dang-doodle and get the fight on... a black eye would be a badge of....of....something!

As it is, as you describe your approach to the game, it is consideration for the noobs that calls the mood. That's why I am asking for different server designations. Another big plus would be how the "early war" server would provide a venue to be competitive while flying the lower rank planes...not just for the sake of noobs but also so everyone would have more incentive to use them. Zup put a lot of thought and work into the planes we have, it's a shame they aren't appreciated more. Heck, people might spend more money on upgrading instead of just skipping their way to the top tiers as quickly as possible. It also could be nice if there were more performance difference between them.

I think you missed my point McFate, I don't think your uberserver will be bothered by trolls.

While you and several of the more experienced players are living the life of Riley on the advanced server, all the trolls will be point farming on the other servers. Not only will they be farming, they will be facing less resistance because a large number of the players that could chase them out of a game won't be on the lower servers anymore.

That might be all well and good for anyone who wants to stay on the advanced server, but I don't see how that will help sell subscriptions to noobs.

I truly love what you are saying about a competative server. Will it work out? I'm not sure but definitely worth giving it a go. Yesss this server will be for the big boys only. And by that I mean the higher level players and better planes, should I hope.

This is why...

All these tough guys, well not all but most, that claim to want to play as the wish are the first ones to jump ship when roles are reversed. Take for instance the droppers. Sure, all is going great for them until I drop my bombs and go after them. What do they do? Almost all the time they leave the game when they get a beat down. Take a look at the Bubi being banned thread and look at the screen shot I left behind. Once I get the best of him and give him the same payback he put on others, he would just whimp out and stay on the runway.

See the point of my objection to the way the game is now is that most of these players that want to play here in DF as they wish are only doing it to prey on those who can not defend themselves. Once a player steps up to them they are gone. Then they have to nerve to call other players babies or tell them to stop whinning. Same goes for players that choose to use any available tactic. Once you do it to them they are the first to show their discontent. These types of player really don't want to be in a competative server. They may say and act like they do but they won't like it because they will be evenly matched. It will be for the players that REALLY want to unleash just as I believe you do.

I'm with you on this McFate. As long as the players in this server have a fighting chance against eachother, it's a great idea. It's no place for the beginners.

Just as I had no chance in the world as a beginner here in a starter plane in Dogfight match against top guys in top planes, these beginners will stand no chance in a room like this. Plus it will be an incentive they can look foward to achieving to be able to play in this server in the future.

S. E. Dailey wrote: I think you missed my point McFate, I don't think your uberserver will be bothered by trolls.

While you and several of the more experienced players are living the life of Riley on the advanced server, all the trolls will be point farming on the other servers. Not only will they be farming, they will be facing less resistance because a large number of the players that could chase them out of a game won't be on the lower servers anymore.

That might be all well and good for anyone who wants to stay on the advanced server, but I don't see how that will help sell subscriptions to noobs.

Wow!!! Good point Dailey.

Think the noobs got it bad now? It would be a nightmare for them just as you mention. These predators would be in their glory.

D93 Big Gunzzz wrote:

S. E. Dailey wrote: I think you missed my point McFate, I don't think your uberserver will be bothered by trolls.

While you and several of the more experienced players are living the life of Riley on the advanced server, all the trolls will be point farming on the other servers. Not only will they be farming, they will be facing less resistance because a large number of the players that could chase them out of a game won't be on the lower servers anymore.

That might be all well and good for anyone who wants to stay on the advanced server, but I don't see how that will help sell subscriptions to noobs.

Wow!!! Good point Dailey.

Think the noobs got it bad now? It would be a nightmare for them just as you mention. These predators would be in their glory.

.
.

Yep. Another good point Dailey. Though I think there will be a lot of high ranks who would not choose the "advanced" servers. They are the ones who would be most likely to report. I'm thinking that the "normal" servers would become havens for those who want the gentlemen's games. It could be a good place for moderators to be brought back in. There would be fewer complaints from disgruntled kicked players if "abusive" players were only banned from certain servers... anyone who didn't like the restrictions could stick to the advanced servers.

Also, maybe there could be some reporting system or if your KDR was too high, you would not be alllwed into the low server? Hmm. That doesn't quite seem right...

Well, I doubt anything will come of any of this... but zup has surprised us before.

This game needs a way to make you earn points for actually fulfilling your mission, not also for doing as you please.

Ok, bombing your target gets you points, but dropping and deciding you are an interceptor also.

There is hardly a way you can get points for being a new player here in a noob plane sticking to your mission.

The mission should be something like:
Sneak to enemy base and take a aerial photograph from 1000 meters (make screenshot) and return safely to base.
Shooting any reds should just be part of the fun, not giving you any extra points.
The whole point would be to avoid a fight.

Bombers,.....well their mission should be clear. Points for bombing, none for shooting down anyone. Maybe added waypoints to assemble to bomb in formation, but we would need a bigger map for it. Make waypoint 1... You earn points...make waypoint 2....more points, and so on. Bombing gets you the big pay.

Fighters? You start out with an outdated fighter plane, you'll earn a better plane during each game. For instance start out with a Hawker Hurricane in the game, you get 3 kills, you'll earn your Spitfire mk1. Then a mk2, 3 and so on. Getting shot down more than you shoot down puts you in a worse plane. Every game you start out fresh out of flightschool. It gives newer players some fighting chance.

Limited fuel on a much bigger map would prevent excessive spawnkilling, because there would be no way to get back. Points should only be added if you returned safely to base.

The year in which each game is set should be clear and the planes should be available as historically correct.

And you should loose points if you fail to get the air ministries expensive plane back to base.

Maybe more pionts for kills/missions using inferior planes to help noobs upgrade quicker so they are less of an easy kill.

best rule in a fight is no rules. glitching n camping excluded. get so tired of whiners thinking you gotta fly straight from your base to red base on bombing missions especially. so stupid and boring. mission first. outnumbered,too bad its a battle they aint always fair. so called sneaking to me is tactic not cheating. go left,go right ,high,low. doesnt bother me. will be good thing n elite because u can actually use he terrain and clouds for cover n concealment. the whole concept of sneaking is bad just cracks me up. imigine that,trying to be sneaky in a battle. love elite,cant wait for phase two.

The cage fight version would be fun at times, or maybe the game could have a street fighter Easter egg?

[e]hammer_tool wrote: The cage fight version would be fun at times, or maybe the game could have a street fighter Easter egg?

Ooh! Like the pilots use martial arts and knives to fight when they land?! I like it!

I love elite also as with any good game there are things to work out.
Lets give Zup some time to work these out, ive been on elite since day one and have seen marked improvement! Once the bugs are worked out it will beat DF hands down!
I say good job Zup and hurry with the improvements.

The Gunslinger wrote: Maybe more pionts for kills/missions using inferior planes to help noobs upgrade quicker so they are less of an easy kill.

The points system already has an advantage for noobs. A low rank gets more points for shooting down a high rank and MORAF doesn't get as many for shooting a a lower rank, I don't know what the point difference is.... It would be interesting to figure it out.

But I think you're right about the higher points for using lower tier planes, regardless of rank. That would be a great incentive.

S. E. Dailey wrote: I think you missed my point McFate, I don't think your uberserver will be bothered by trolls.

While you and several of the more experienced players are living the life of Riley on the advanced server, all the trolls will be point farming on the other servers. Not only will they be farming, they will be facing less resistance because a large number of the players that could chase them out of a game won't be on the lower servers anymore.

That might be all well and good for anyone who wants to stay on the advanced server, but I don't see how that will help sell subscriptions to noobs.

That IS A very good point but have you flown against Mcfate, monster,Zebra etc? and the list goes on they are just point farming on there good days so either way if they would sit on a reg server and play ur dead anyways Just some people are better then other always gonna be that way when I was a noob I had to fly against em all cause there was no noob servers and I hated it but you know what I stuck it out cause they kept saying Good try keep it up you'll get there and it was well worth the challenge If you had to pay then I would have still just to get my butt handed to me since It only makes you better faster then playing (no offense ) in the kiddie pool.

Maybe a good Idea is us Higher skilled players keep that up with noobs give them advice if needed/ when they ask instead of ignoring em. The more everyone acts as a family / community on the game just as well as on forums then more people/noobs may stick it out more . just my .02¢

Maybe we could agree to play dogfight standard to one set of rules, and dogfight elite to another set of rules.
(one of them would be "no rules" )

That would make it easier for Zuperman.

I say fight as you please, where you please. I don't go to certain server to play differently. Just join a game and start killing. Who cares if someone doesn't like the way you play. Sneak if you like, Barrel roll the whole way across the field, carry, don't carry. You bought the game, Right? Please don't think "MY" feelings get hurt when someone calls me a HACKER or a CHEATER. I bought my way into this game, I earned my stripes (I have more deaths, then most have in kills), Unless I break the rules, NO ONE WILL TELL ME HOW TO PLAY.

If having people complain about your style of play hurts your feelings, Maybe you need to grow a little thicker skin. Do you think I changed my style of playing, every time someone started bitching about "not having a chance" or "Its just not possible you are that accurate", No one cut me a break when I started. I say grow a set.

[*M]VonHuLK wrote: I say fight as you please, where you please. I don't go to certain server to play differently. Just join a game and start killing. Who cares if someone doesn't like the way you play. Sneak if you like, Barrel roll the whole way across the field, carry, don't carry. You bought the game, Right? Please don't think "MY" feelings get hurt when someone calls me a HACKER or a CHEATER. I bought my way into this game, I earned my stripes (I have more deaths, then most have in kills), Unless I break the rules, NO ONE WILL TELL ME HOW TO PLAY.

If having people complain about your style of play hurts your feelings, Maybe you need to grow a little thicker skin. Do you think I changed my style of playing, every time someone started bitching about "not having a chance" or "Its just not possible you are that accurate", No one cut me a break when I started. I say grow a set.

Hulk ...you forgot one thing, (by the way I couldn't have said it better), if you DO NOT AGREE with Hulk, go find another game to play, or shut the pie hole, I say GET BUSY FLYING OR GET BUSY DYING!!!

[*M]yNuts

[*M]yNuts wrote:

[*M]VonHuLK wrote: I say fight as you please, where you please. I don't go to certain server to play differently. Just join a game and start killing. Who cares if someone doesn't like the way you play. Sneak if you like, Barrel roll the whole way across the field, carry, don't carry. You bought the game, Right? Please don't think "MY" feelings get hurt when someone calls me a HACKER or a CHEATER. I bought my way into this game, I earned my stripes (I have more deaths, then most have in kills), Unless I break the rules, NO ONE WILL TELL ME HOW TO PLAY.

If having people complain about your style of play hurts your feelings, Maybe you need to grow a little thicker skin. Do you think I changed my style of playing, every time someone started bitching about "not having a chance" or "Its just not possible you are that accurate", No one cut me a break when I started. I say grow a set.

Hulk ...you forgot one thing, (by the way I couldn't have said it better), if you DO NOT AGREE with Hulk, go find another game to play, or shut the pie hole, I say GET BUSY FLYING OR GET BUSY DYING!!!

[*M]yNuts

Well said Hulk,

You're one of the few that has always been willing to take whatever the game brings without complaint.


Pete,

Is this a new perspective for you? You're one of the guys who used to complain 'long and hard' about camping and dropping. While I was flying undercover before changing squads you hurt my widdle feewings when you accused me dwopping wen I waddent!. Lol. Jk. It's nice to see you turn the corner bud.