Another great dirty game!

I spawned into the allied side of btb last night that was 4 on 4. The reds were all on radar and were tangling with the blues just beyond the hill. I quickly noticed that they weren't coming over the hill but instead had dropped and were tanking up or covering from the air.

Blitzkrieg! "An intense military campaign intended to bring about a swift victory"

It was a bold move and they managed to net a couple of hangars. When we eventually managed to clean them out., I'd dropped my bombs on a couple of them. But...as soon as the last tank was down I said on team chat:

"I'm bombless,"
Another blue said "I'm carrying"
I said "I'll draw and cover"

I went wide and being faster than my bomb laden teammates, I came upon the reds first. I sprayed some bullets at them from the East and they all took the bait. The in coming blues picked some of them off and when the remaining reds turned to go after the bombers I got on their 6: and dropped the rest. At that point we had a tank in close range which occupied some of the reds, others were respawning as I ducked below the German hill and picked them off as they came over. We got one hangar and a blue cursed himself for missing another..

That was a blast! And no one complained.

Was it wrong? Cheap? Dishonorable? Did it degrade the game?


(This game option is not available in the kiddie pool or the sandbox)

Sounds to me like a lot of fun!

By the title I thought you were going to describe naked twister or something. <WHEW> Glad I was wrong about that!

Not at all. As long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage, and instead were utilizing this tactic to defend your base, it's a completely legitimate move. I've dropped bombs on tanks and carried on, escorting my team. Why return to base and reload, giving the reds the advancement? I'd rather get shot down on glory and honor and have a full military funeral. You did a good job.

yes

Translated:
Not at all. As long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage, and instead were utilizing this tactic to defend your base, it's a completely legitimate move. I've dropped bombs on tanks and carried on, escorting my team. Why return to base and reload, giving the reds the advancement? I'd rather get shot down on glory and honor and have a full military funeral. You did a good job.[/quote]

W.D. Gaster wrote:

Dognamitt wrote: not at all as long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain a advantage and defend its a legitimate move ive dropped bombs on tanks and carried on escorting my team why return to base and reload and give the reds the advancement get shot down in glory and honor and have a full military funeral GJ

Translated:
Not at all. As long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage, and instead were utilizing this tactic to defend your base, it's a completely legitimate move. I've dropped bombs on tanks and carried on, escorting my team. Why return to base and reload, giving the reds the advancement? I'd rather get shot down on glory and honor and have a full military funeral. You did a good job.

And what of the Germans blitzkrieg?

Dognamitt wrote: yes

Translated:
Not at all. As long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage, and instead were utilizing this tactic to defend your base, it's a completely legitimate move. I've dropped bombs on tanks and carried on, escorting my team. Why return to base and reload, giving the reds the advancement? I'd rather get shot down on glory and honor and have a full military funeral. You did a good job.

[/quote]

Yah that is all fine and good, but did you let the enemy win? If not, you may very well be subjected to being called a cheater!!!!

Bahahahaha

See if more players just let the other side win, more frowns would be turned upside down!!!!

makes the game more interesting that's all,had a great game last night till a glitcher came in i was 135 for 40 defending agianst 4 high rank players and i had two noobs helping me was fun game and had fun trying to defend against advancing reds and red sneakers then after the player came in and glitched i left the game

[NLR] McFate wrote:

W.D. Gaster wrote:

Dognamitt wrote: not at all as long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain a advantage and defend its a legitimate move ive dropped bombs on tanks and carried on escorting my team why return to base and reload and give the reds the advancement get shot down in glory and honor and have a full military funeral GJ

Translated:
Not at all. As long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage, and instead were utilizing this tactic to defend your base, it's a completely legitimate move. I've dropped bombs on tanks and carried on, escorting my team. Why return to base and reload, giving the reds the advancement? I'd rather get shot down on glory and honor and have a full military funeral. You did a good job.

And what of the Germans blitzkrieg?

No that wasn't dirty that's being smart .

It's the guys that only drop for points alone that ruin games .I for one after bombing and flying back will turn and fly wing for a plane with bombs .I don't think.that's cheap or dirty .it called playing smart

Like.I said it's the one that drop only for points and to camp when no tanks.or planes are even close to a base .those are the ones people complain about .it's usually a pc.player that knows if he drops he can spin his way around and take out any phone or tablet guys with or without bombs .like I said if they didn't do that here df2 wouldn't be separated.

[NLR] McFate wrote: Another great dirty game!

I spawned into the allied side of btb last night that was 4 on 4. The reds were all on radar and were tangling with the blues just beyond the hill. I quickly noticed that they weren't coming over the hill but instead had dropped and were tanking up or covering from the air.

Blitzkrieg! "An intense military campaign intended to bring about a swift victory"

It was a bold move and they managed to net a couple of hangars. When we eventually managed to clean them out
(This game option is not available in the kiddie pool or the sandbox)

The Blitzkrieg on the other side of the hill is apparently becoming a very popular tactic . . . I flew in a game against a similar bunch last night. The only issue was when one of the red tanks got a little over zealous and rolled over the hill headed for our base. His fellow teammates point the potential foul out, to which he apologized and backed off.

No one cried or moaned on our side . . . we just pushed it a little harder, and cleaned them out of our front yard. I dropped too . . . right on top of one of their tanks, and then I used the added speed and agility to the best of my ability in hopes of surviving against the talented pilots (also bombless, but in superior planes) who were providing blitzkrieg cover. Guess what, no one complained or made the asinine suggestion that I peal out of a turning battle on the 5 yard line, and attempt to land and reload.

We ALL had a great time flying a hard-fought match.

Unfortunately, the level of maturity and sportsmanship of this match was the exception, not the norm.

You will inevitably find more people that will whine than those that will just suck it up and push harder, or some jackwagon that would rather glitch or spawnkill than just play clean. Forget them, worry about the man in your mirror; you know when something feels like it might be cheap or unsportsmanlike, if it does, don’t do it.

You can find two kinds of folks in almost any endeavor; the guy that is looking to do it clean, and the guy that is looking for the loophole or the plausible excuse. Decide which one you want to look at in your mirror . . . the other guys stuck looking at the whiner in his mirror.

As long as what's acceptable is accepted be all... I'd actually prefer it for people to use the tactical breadth of the game. When I first started playing a couple of years ago there was a broadly accepted set of 'rules' - no spawnkilling (except in a narrow defined set of circumstances), no camping (ditto), no dropping (ditto). 'Sneaking' wasn't a sin. When I came back, about a year ago, most of these 'rules' had been eroded to the point where they were meaningless - some people had very clear ideas about what was acceptable and complained if anyone went outside those, while others merrily camped and spawnkilled. Also, a new 'crime' of 'sneaking' had been created. This is a bit odd as Zup has given us a reasonably large environment that goes up to 4,000ft, and radar/visiblity that only reaches a certain difference. When I was a new player, so-called sneaking was the only way I could get anywhere near the target. The alternative was to be moraf fodder down the middle. I suspect those who complain most about sneaking are those who have honed their head-on skills and like to have plenty of slow-manouevring noobs to gun down on their way to the target. But maybe that's unfair.

At the same time, I always thought that bombing games might be more interesting if there was a degree of fighter escort, so the bombers go for the target while the defending fighters try and get at them and the escorts try to protect the bombers. But it's hard to co-ordinate, and one player who only wants kills can rip up a game so it's no fun for anyone.

As far as I'm concerned the one big no-no, which everyone should observe and enforce, is spawnkilling (by which I mean strafing aircraft on the ground or taking off until they have some freedom to manouevre). This should only be relaxed if you're on the run in to bomb and to not spawkill would be suicide.

I have a dog in this fight. I most enjoy turnfighting. I came to Dogfight as an air combat game. I'm not keen on the dominance of head-on, as it's totally unrealistic, and while there's skill in it, it's more like sharpshooting with a rifle than air combat. Which is why I liked 'dogfight' games more than bombing ones, but recently some very senior players seem to regard dogfight games as a means of racking up stats, and gunning people down on the ground. No skill requires. Kero Zen is the worst offender here. His behaviour is beneath contempt. I respect people who meet me in the skies.

(For the avoidance of doubt the above poster and me are one and the same, I just posted the above through the game)

I appreciate your comments, everyone.

The game has so many possibilities, it's great to see them able to unfold with creative innovation. Cundall and I shared a ctf yesterday which had an interesting twist when Mig29 played hide and seek with our flag. It become a sudden death kind of thing... You had to be there. Definitely not a "normal" way to play a capture the flag but it really took some tooth and nail fighting and strategic planning by the teams. Thanks for doing so much of the hard work, Cundall.


Dailey, great attitude! Just one thing:

S. E. Dailey wrote: ... The only issue was when one of the red tanks got a little over zealous and rolled over the hill headed for our base. His fellow teammates point the potential foul out, to which he apologized and backed off.

It sounds like you're saying that the chute may have landed in the "fair" territory (just out of shooting range for the hangars) then he drove over the hill and went for the base. If that is the case he was not using the glitch. The glitch is when he is able to land in the chute and get in a tank while already in tank shot range of the hangars. Was this the case?

I've never heard of nor seen anyone complaining of a tank driving into "enemy territory" once it had landed fairly. Is this another new unwritten "rule" that some are trying to make?


BTW,
This kind of thing is why I started putting together the "unofficial Dogfight law library". There was no easy place to find "the rules" so many players were insisting that they had somewhere read something by Zuperman that said such and such was banable or that he intended the game to go a certain way... I had been looking for any of his actual statements or comments. I've invited anyone to contribute. It is heavily biased to my perspective but I would include any non-trashing threads or posts from other perspectives if anyone submitted them. It really is "unofficial" . I've always been surprised that so few people have ever made reasoned challenges to my interpretations. I've received lots of insults and "here we go again" kind of stuff, but no one has ever brought out a logical counter point to any of it, just melt downs.



Visit The Unofficial Dogfight Law Library

[NLR] McFate wrote:

W.D. Gaster wrote:

Dognamitt wrote: not at all as long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain a advantage and defend its a legitimate move ive dropped bombs on tanks and carried on escorting my team why return to base and reload and give the reds the advancement get shot down in glory and honor and have a full military funeral GJ

Translated:
Not at all. As long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage, and instead were utilizing this tactic to defend your base, it's a completely legitimate move. I've dropped bombs on tanks and carried on, escorting my team. Why return to base and reload, giving the reds the advancement? I'd rather get shot down on glory and honor and have a full military funeral. You did a good job.

And what of the Germans blitzkrieg?

The one that invaded nuetral countries to go around enemy strong points, and sprung sneak attacks on countries that didn't know they were about to be belligerants?

Longrifle wrote:

[NLR] McFate wrote:

W.D. Gaster wrote:

Dognamitt wrote: not at all as long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain a advantage and defend its a legitimate move ive dropped bombs on tanks and carried on escorting my team why return to base and reload and give the reds the advancement get shot down in glory and honor and have a full military funeral GJ

Translated:
Not at all. As long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage, and instead were utilizing this tactic to defend your base, it's a completely legitimate move. I've dropped bombs on tanks and carried on, escorting my team. Why return to base and reload, giving the reds the advancement? I'd rather get shot down on glory and honor and have a full military funeral. You did a good job.

And what of the Germans blitzkrieg?

The one that invaded nuetral countries to go around enemy strong points, and sprung sneak attacks on countries that didn't know they were about to be belligerants?

Lol, sorry Longrifle, I was only referring to the tank blitzkrieg that the reds did in that game. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure they did it as a plan or if I just spawned in at the most opportune moment... either way it was a bold move and a tough fight that got my adrenaline flowing. More please!

S. E. Dailey wrote:
You will inevitably find more people that will whine than those that will just suck it up and push harder, or some jackwagon that would rather glitch or spawnkill than just play clean. Forget them, worry about the man in your mirror; you know when something feels like it might be cheap or unsportsmanlike, if it does, don’t do it.

I encountered this last night. I dropped to counter a well known dropper, and then proceeded to hunt just that player for a little bit. Once he was sufficiently dealt with I rearmed at my airbase (It was a bomb the carrier game) and returned to the red ship with bombs.

The reds were all Spanish speaking, and while I couldn't understand what they were typing I could make out "viper" and "dropper" just fine.

Watching the game unfold as I was rearming I noted all the reds had been either shot down, destroyed, or crashed, so instead of rushing head first into a hornets nest of 4 reds close to their carrier I waited a minute, then pushed my attack home. On team chat I told the blues to hold off shooting chutes and tanks for a minute while I delivered 2 bombs to the red carrier. Again, I am not bi-lingual but I know what "viper" and "sneaker" (spelled "snaker" by the reds) means.

I am all for fair and honorable play. Frankly, I didn't feel guilty in the least for what transpired or how it transpired. It was a really good win in the end.

As a side note, MORAF Oscar Alberto showed up towards the end of this game. I consider him a great player and friend. I do believe he defended my actions to his team mates, but since I don't speak Spanish I can only guess. I did notice the red dropper stopped dropping after Oscar arrived and some chatter about "viper" and "dropper/snaker" was exchanged. Oscar Alberto has always been a class act in my opinion.

Funny I was in a pretty good BtB game last night, and I was in the zone. Then a level 22 red (Ooga Chaka) started calling me a dropper. It made me kind of mad. Anyone who has flown with me much at all knows that I very rarely drop. I usually don’t even drop in situations where the court of popular opinion says it’s legal to do so.

The only things that saw my bombs that game were a tank hatch, maybe one red hangar, and a stretch of red runway (I’m not 100% on bombing hangars yet). I’m not great at the long shot either; but I work interlocking fire, NOE, and defilade pretty well . . . and if I get close enough to turn with you, I’ll pull some pretty bat-scat-crazy BFM to try to survive. I’ve eaten my share of turf and tundra in the process.

I’m assuming that he was offended that a lowly level 16 such as me,in a beat up old Albatros D.III, could give a superior Air Vice-Marshal III in a shiny new Siemens Schukert IV a run for his money.

I felt honored when one of his teammates (pmoon1) advised him that I was not a dropper. Still, I have to admit that I spent way too much time in that game trying to throw the gauntlet back in Ooga Chaka’s face, when I really guess I should have just taken it as a compliment.

And FYI:
McFate, to clarify the situation,I’m not sure (I was busy trying not to die at the time), but I think that pilot may have chuted into the “glitch zone” very near the base, and then started to roll right into the base, at which point his teammates warned him off.

Dognamitt wrote: yes

Translated:
Not at all. As long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage, and instead were utilizing this tactic to defend your base, it's a completely legitimate move. I've dropped bombs on tanks and carried on, escorting my team. Why return to base and reload, giving the reds the advancement? I'd rather get shot down on glory and honor and have a full military funeral. You did a good job.

[/quote]



Can't quite comprehend ? You said, " as long as u didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage."

Well, I can't stop laughing. Because why wouldn't u drop intentionally in order to gain advantage ??? Isn't that what ur supposed to do, try to gain advantage over ur opposition ? How else can one win this war/ game if one doesn't gain advantage ? Im all ears.. & toes too, can u explain how to compete in a competitive settings expecting to win with out ever gaining the advantage ?

111th| Heroicz wrote:

Dognamitt wrote: yes

Translated:
Not at all. As long as you didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage, and instead were utilizing this tactic to defend your base, it's a completely legitimate move. I've dropped bombs on tanks and carried on, escorting my team. Why return to base and reload, giving the reds the advancement? I'd rather get shot down on glory and honor and have a full military funeral. You did a good job.

Can't quite comprehend ? You said, " as long as u didn't intentionally drop to gain an advantage."

Well, I can't stop laughing. Because why wouldn't u drop intentionally in order to gain advantage ??? Isn't that what ur supposed to do, try to gain advantage over ur opposition ? How else can one win this war/ game if one doesn't gain advantage ? Im all ears.. & toes too, can u explain how to compete in a competitive settings expecting to win with out ever gaining the advantage ?




[/quote]



After reading all of ur post |)og, i have to say that is very well stated. What u said i agree with, just exploiting any loop holes if may be. I always look for a counter in game & in conversation. That way i can be prepared for a counter. I try to be @ least honest to myself..