Posted way too much about this matter, and all the other matters,for that matter.

This game is what it is, and my guess is that it will stay as it is.

They drop, you go sneak around them.
They sneak, you drop to catch them.

Am I spoiling the drama here?
Sorry for that.

Always hoped this game would change into a more advanced tactical game.......but I gave up on that.
It is what it is, as Zup designed it to be, and of course that's totally fine.
Let's live with it.

At the risk of being accused of "cursing in church", as we say here: IT'S A GAME!

Your right mcfate why should.I be forced to fly like someone wants and pay for it .I have therefore unsubscribed.and shall not pay for the privilege of being forced to dog fight in bombing missions .

darraxx wrote: Your right mcfate why should.I be forced to fly like someone wants and pay for it .I have therefore unsubscribed.and shall not pay for the privilege of being forced to dog fight in bombing missions .

That's too bad daraxx. I guess that the game just isn't set up for your preferences. I've always hoped that it could grow to a point where there could be multiple game lobbies (similar to many other online games, where someone could host a particular game and prescribe certain rules, guidelines, skill levels, equipment catagories, etc... It seems that there would need to be a lot more active players for that to work. Maybe DF elite will have some of those features.

The loss of your $2 / month is unfortunate but my guess is that it's a greater loss from all the noobs who are driven off by the attitude of established, high rank players telling them how to fly, and that they can't drop to get a maneuvering advantage over people who have been playing for 1000+ hours.

I get it when you say that you don't like how some people drop and just make bombing games into dogfights. What you don't seem to get is that there is nothing you can do about it except adapt or leave the game. I get it that you want to vent, you often have, but now you're bashing. Other people see this and will start in on it too. It just grows and gets worse.

Your statement "why should.I be forced to fly like someone wants and pay for it" is wonderfully oxymoronic after the way you are always trying to get people to fly your style. The answer is that you don't. Neither does anyone else. If I could somehow get one thing through to you it is that those feelings that you have expressed on this thread about how frustrating it is for someone else to tell you how to fly are valid for other people too, not just those who agree with you on flying style. If you truly want Dogfight to grow shouldn't you want to make it more welcoming to others, (especially noobs)?

Whining and complaining, and now more than ever, "bitching" drives off players. (maybe not as bad as lag and glitches...) If you could stop with the whining I'd have no trouble with you whatsoever. Discussions are fine but you cross the line. Yea, so did I in my response. Sorry. I should not stoop.

So I guess that if you can't handle the freedom that the game allows...

Don't let the door hit ya.

See now that where you are absolutely wrong there are so many new players that want to learn head on fighting but never get the chance .they have to suffer the likes of bubi and others that find games full of noobs to pray on .u s actually sad the way the game has turned.you your self once taught me honor above all .but I guess your willing to bend to the masses.

...I give up on you two, you are like children with this... Rabbit- "Mom!!!!! Mcfate is being a jerk!!!" Mcfate- "Well if it werent for your ignorance i wouldnt have to be!"

Seriously you two sound like a couple of siblings going back and forth over this. WFW-Waaaa Freakin Waaaa get over it, its a game, play however ya feel and leave eachothers decisions out of it for cryin out loud! I realize my thread is public, but it was about droppers, not your stupid little petty fight you two nitwits are having! Build a damn bridge and get over yourselves already! Fight elsewhere, i dont want to have to say it again!

Notorious droppers make no friends here.

Isn't it just fun to go after them?

Let's all just enjoy this game.

But I agree that this game lost its initial appeal.

Cant't wait for DF 2. Everything will be so much different there.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Cant't wait for DF 2. Everything will be so much different there.

Lol! Let's hope.

Maybe I should have added a "lol"......but you know.......

Yeah some types of in game behaviour annoys me to, but I try hard not to let my pet peeves get in the way.

(Some of my best friends are droppers complainers.)

This is one of a few games that allows you to respawn. Most multiplayer games give you one life, so camping is only possible until you are shot down. To use other multiplayer games as an example is a waste of time unless you only play the games that give you more than one spawn. This is the only game I play with that option, where as the others give you one and you have to make reasonable decisions to survive, or you just die and become a spectator.

I prefer a one spawn option with at least 16 players per team, you are forced to make reasonable decisions instead of those which give you multiple chances to stack your stats.

[*M]bzerkbzerk wrote: This is one of a few games that allows you to respawn. Most multiplayer games give you one life, so camping is only possible until you are shot down. To use other multiplayer games as an example is a waste of time unless you only play the games that give you more than one spawn. This is the only game I play with that option, where as the others give you one and you have to make reasonable decisions to survive, or you just die and become a spectator.

I prefer a one spawn option with at least 16 players per team, you are forced to make reasonable decisions instead of those which give you multiple chances to stack your stats.

I was thinking about how a game option like that could be a cool change. Having to prioritize staying alive would definitely be a different game dynamic. ...

Or how about something like Gannet' s idea:

Gannet wrote: I'd like to see at least one of the game options where there is a set number of planes available to each side, probably a bombing mission. So one way to win is to be the last side with any planes flying.

That would produce a different set of play tactics, and more team work.

[NLR] McFate wrote:

[*M]bzerkbzerk wrote: This is one of a few games that allows you to respawn. Most multiplayer games give you one life, so camping is only possible until you are shot down. To use other multiplayer games as an example is a waste of time unless you only play the games that give you more than one spawn. This is the only game I play with that option, where as the others give you one and you have to make reasonable decisions to survive, or you just die and become a spectator.

I prefer a one spawn option with at least 16 players per team, you are forced to make reasonable decisions instead of those which give you multiple chances to stack your stats.

I was thinking about how a game option like that could be a cool change. Having to prioritize staying alive would definitely be a different game dynamic. ...

Or how about something like Gannet' s idea:

Gannet wrote: I'd like to see at least one of the game options where there is a set number of planes available to each side, probably a bombing mission. So one way to win is to be the last side with any planes flying.

That would produce a different set of play tactics, and more team work.

Personally, I like this idea. But if you only have one life or limited lives... won't more people just drop and try to kill as much as they can before they lose their ability to play? It would turn into a gigantic dogfight match and whoever is left standing completes the objective with no competition left. This in itself is pointless as there is no one to stop said person/people from completing the objective... so the match really ends after the massive dogfight match. This would turn into team dogfights - which I'm not opposed to - but I think it would be pointless to have an objective after which. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, if you were required to bomb something simple like 1-4 hangars or something and the game mode didn't allow for reloading bombs. That would eliminate the entire lobby dropping. If 16 people either side, could have a few people hang around while the fighters kill the other fighters. Possibly even split the fighters to protect your bombers immediate area as the others attack the other fighters or go around to fight the bombers. Much to think about to develop this idea... I LOVE IT

Limited spawn numbers per side would open itself to a wide range of possible different tactics, all requiring teamwork:

eg:
Command hierarchy of team within game, the highest rank in the team calls the tactics
Commander stays out of combat so they can concentrate on texting instructions promptly
Division of team into fighters and bombers
Keeping count of kills.
Defend your base (dropping) until they are low on lives.
Decoying to suck the reds away from their base.
Coordination of sneak attack with decoying and delayed killing of the sucked away reds.
Gang tackling individual reds.

etc etc.

No individual points, just share of teams end points in these games would encourage all sorts of teamwork.

What if you only carry one bomb, its really hard to keep up with planes that has one outta 2 bombs. When mine only goes 120 on a straight away, and 135 on a dive. What are your thoughts on single bomb planes?

Merf brother if you see a dropper on your team do 1 of 2 things point them out to the reds and sit away from the action until they have been given alot of attention by the reds they end up leaving cause they know that they have been found out or sneak to get to the objective that's what I do I had my whole team dropping so I carrying 2 bombs at a time I decided to go down to the jolly roger and have a Nic wabbit stew and a few pints of wolf beer I ended up sitting there for half hour while the droppers where begin killed by some top players I cant remember who was there but I went happy hunting reds I'm off to the jolly roger then I was left alone against 4 reds they decided to join me at the jolly roger and have a few pints

I know one thing if there's a dropper on my side and he gets in front of me I will no longer hold my fire .I'm tired of getting killed because some dope wants to get cheap kills .to many times I've watched my team get killed because they had to hold their fire when a dropper races out in front of everyone.I'd rather lose some points than watch my team lose ground and maybe the game .

Dropping does not bother me , it is a tactic I very seldom use , I much prefer to carry both bombs fly slower and pick the droppers off head to head before they get close enough for their speed to matter. Only time I may consider dropping is to chase a red that has got past our defence and is heading to bomb our base. There are many facets to this game and all need to be explored in an attempt to become a better pilot. Adapt and overcome but play within the rules please.

Some people only have one bomb, they haven't upgraded yet, so it's not a problem to drop one bomb. I know some that wish they never upgraded their plane to two bombs, so they always drop that extra one.

The problem is those that intentionally drop so they aren't carrying a bomb which gives a big speed and maneuverability advantage against any plane with a bomb. That's why many players like Bubi uses it just to pat their stats, because those with a bomb can't compete unless they drop.

I hate to drop to deal with the droppers, that just keeps the game going longer because you can't bomb.

whtknight19 wrote: What if you only carry one bomb, its really hard to keep up with planes that has one outta 2 bombs. When mine only goes 120 on a straight away, and 135 on a dive. What are your thoughts on single bomb planes?

[M]Pagan wrote: Dropping does not bother me , it is a tactic I very seldom use , I much prefer to carry both bombs fly slower and pick the droppers off head to head before they get close enough for their speed to matter. Only time I may consider dropping is to chase a red that has got past our defence and is heading to bomb our base. There are many facets to this game and all need to be explored in an attempt to become a better pilot. Adapt and overcome but play within the rules please.

i am sry if me dropping offended you!! dogfight wasn't my intention !! i dropped to defend and you guys showed up so i couldn't reload

Well said McFate

[NLR] McFate wrote: You should try to win the game without breaking any rules.

If that means that you should keep your bombs and use them to take out hangars, great.
If that means that you should use them to take out enemy tanks, great.
If that means that you should drop and protect your hangars, great.
If that means that you should drop your bombs to take out other droppers, great.
If that means that you should drop and escort team mates who are bombing, great.
If that means that you should keep your bombs and fool the reds with a sneak attack, great.
If that means that you should watch out for missing reds in case they may be sneaking, great.

Trying to win does not include dropping in a bombing game just to rack up kills.
Trying to win does not include complaining about how other people play.
Trying to win does not include limiting the possibilities.
Trying to win does not include trying to make new rules about how other people play.
Trying to win does not mean using the same strategy every single time.

So, is there another goal in a bombing game besides trying to win? If your answer is that everyone should play the way that complainers want the game to be played, you are asking for something similar to having everyone only listen to the same type of music or to only eat the same types of food.

Play the game as you see fit. If you don't like what someone else is doing, figure out how to counter it. Otherwise this may not be the game for you.

I've kind of stayed away from this topic as it really doesn't bother me whether or not there are droppers in the game but...

If you do it properly, you can help your team win the game. I usually try to carry but doesn't always work out...adjust accordingly and deal with whatever happens.

The problem I find with droppers is that there are only a few that I have seen that actually are an asset in the game. The rest actually do nothing whatsoever to help win. The moment you really need them to cover for you when you're approaching to bomb is when they get shot or they crash...or they're done padding their stats and ran out of ammo... Haven't seen too many that actually are tactical about it at all.

I think that may be what frustrates the guys that want to bomb...a team mate not really playing a team game. Hard to pull off a win if everyone is out for themselves going in different directions.

Here's how I look at it. Dropping just to increase your stats? No, uh uh. Dropping as part of a tactic? Yes.

When I'm in the Sopwith Camel, I always carry. It's a fast and maneuverable plane.

But when I'm on the German side, the only plane I currently have at my disposal is the mono wing Fokker. That plane is not designed for bombing runs or sneaking (especially when the other team has more advanced planes). It's designed as an escort fighter. So, if in the Fokker, I will USUALLY (not always) drop so I can escort the bombers into the base so they can do their job. This tactic works very well.

So... It's a matter of opinion. As long as the players are sticking to the mission at hand and not everybody is dropping, it's fine.

S99 wrote:

[M]Pagan wrote: Dropping does not bother me , it is a tactic I very seldom use , I much prefer to carry both bombs fly slower and pick the droppers off head to head before they get close enough for their speed to matter. Only time I may consider dropping is to chase a red that has got past our defence and is heading to bomb our base. There are many facets to this game and all need to be explored in an attempt to become a better pilot. Adapt and overcome but play within the rules please.

i am sry if me dropping offended you!! dogfight wasn't my intention !! i dropped to defend and you guys showed up so i couldn't reload

S99 I belived you when you said you dropped to bomb a tank , that,in my opinion , is a perfectly acceptable tactic. If you have legitimately dropped on a tank I don't see why you should have to re arm when under attack. You did nothing wrong in my opinion , but I do not wish to comment on what went on after wards,that was unacceptable and that is why I left the game , not because of what you did.

I think it is funny how much the upper level players are complaining of droppers. How they don't want to face 4 droppers. I think they would rather us lower level players with slower shooting and slower turning planes to stay that way so they can plow over us. Upping there kills and our deaths. I don't agree with that way of playing. With that said I don't agree with flying over with no bombs hoping to get shot down to tank up. If I am in a game that has 2 or 3 level 31 or level 30 players in it then I will drop 1 bomb and carry one bomb just so that i will have a fighting chance to actually make it to the enemy base. And if you have a problem with that then there is 2 things you can do. NOTHING AND LIKE IT!

I better not hear SLIPKNOT or ALOPRODOS say ANYTHING about getting spawn killed, or someone dropping or camping them.. Cheatin punks..

Hey that aloprodos team killed me for no reason at all then left the game I was in over the weekend .maybe he was ticked because I shot him down a few times in the game before.hell I even had both my bombs when i shot him down .