Manfred wrote:
If I'm in a Dogfight mission and another player is winning with some spawn kills, directing my frustration at the spawnkiller would be highly misplaced. I am mad at the noob who is handing over the free kills! Stand on your brakes, for the love of Pete! Time your takeoff! Watch your radar! If someone is camping behind you, they are not hovering; spin your view and watch radar, and figure out the moment that he banks away in his circle.

I've lost a few Dogfight games to lower rankers because the noobs keep laying themselves out on the runway for them. Drives me nuts.

Manfred

But by definition the "noob" hasn't learned this as of yet, so why wouldn't the "experienced" player getting the cheap kills frustrate you?

It's a game. There is no money for winning. No money for losing. Matter of fact there is nothing tangible attached to any of this. If you get shot down you don't really die. It isn't realistic in any reasonable argument.

So why not let people fly and have fun? There certainly are ways around getting sk'd in a dogfight game. There is also a second choice available... Let people fly. Give them a chance and see what they are made of. People choose to play like their lives or income depended on it. Neither is accurate. Just fly, have fun, allow others to enjoy the game as you do. Be gracious in victory as in defeat folks. How hard is that?

(I know I sound like a tree-hugger hippie but I can assure you that isn't the case..... but I reserve that for things that matter in life.)

I would like to add that I have been around long enough to know that a hard-fought victory is much more satisfying than an easy win. Personally I prefer a good fight, win or lose, over a sure victory every day. I cannot understand why others don't agree with this philosophy.

Viper10{WP} wrote: It's a game. There is no money for winning. No money for losing. Matter of fact there is nothing tangible attached to any of this. If you get shot down you don't really die. It isn't realistic in any reasonable argument.

So why not let people fly and have fun? There certainly are ways around getting sk'd in a dogfight game. There is also a second choice available... Let people fly. Give them a chance and see what they are made of. People choose to play like their lives or income depended on it. Neither is accurate. Just fly, have fun, allow others to enjoy the game as you do. Be gracious in victory as in defeat folks. How hard is that?

(I know I sound like a tree-hugger hippie but I can assure you that isn't the case..... but I reserve that for things that matter in life.)

I would like to add that I have been around long enough to know that a hard-fought victory is much more satisfying than an easy win. Personally I prefer a good fight, win or lose, over a sure victory every day. I cannot understand why others don't agree with this philosophy.

I'm.with you. I'd rather have a good fight and lose than getting a win at any cost. Winning is great but a hard fought game is way better

[*M] bware wrote:

Manfred wrote:
If I'm in a Dogfight mission and another player is winning with some spawn kills, directing my frustration at the spawnkiller would be highly misplaced. I am mad at the noob who is handing over the free kills! Stand on your brakes, for the love of Pete! Time your takeoff! Watch your radar! If someone is camping behind you, they are not hovering; spin your view and watch radar, and figure out the moment that he banks away in his circle.

I've lost a few Dogfight games to lower rankers because the noobs keep laying themselves out on the runway for them. Drives me nuts.

Manfred

But by definition the "noob" hasn't learned this as of yet, so why wouldn't the "experienced" player getting the cheap kills frustrate you?

Good point. I guess I've only played a couple dozen games in the past few months, and I'm still living in the time where we had segregated rank servers. The players graduating to the Big Kid servers sure had foul mouths, but at least they knew how to not get killed so easily.

Maybe this applies less now.

Manfred

ZandorHawke wrote: Serious question as it would seem like I should know this but...

Since you can spawn in at one of four locations in DF mode and two of them are not "owned" by your side, the brakes option doesn't work half the time, right? I seem to remember spawning in, hitting my brakes and getting SK and then realizing I wasn't at my base. Did I dream this? If not, to me, it throws a wrench into the SK in DF mode argument. No different then getting SK by a tank at that point.

Actually you own 3 of the four. the carriers are neutral so both are safe its just the opposing forces base that you don't have protection with brakes.

I think as much as everyone doesn't like it, myself included squad wars is about to open up the game to a whole wide world of possibilities and the squads that adapt and take advantage will win plain and simple. So everyone had better get used to these types of players. The server isn't going to deduct points for poor form. No amount of shame trash talk is going to change the outcome.

I don't see all bad aspects reigning supreme though... I think there are some differences that I think will change games and how players play. There should be balanced sides so a lot of these problems will no longer exist since they come from lopsided teams. I learned something in our DD vs Misfits squad battle...up the middle was useless...and the game took on a whole new form with everyone scattered all over the map and all kinds of new attacks and fighting skills being used. I thought it was fantastic. The game will change but I don't think everyone will be like Zero Ken (yeah I know how to spell it) for that's not the ultimate player. Players like to be proud of themselves and their squad and if they are known as the dirtiest fighting squad, the top talent will leave since they can win without hitting below the belt. I think the belt line will shift for all but I don't see chaos either. The squad with the best strategy, fair play and skill set will win for they will attract and keep the best players and have the best organization.

Whiplash wrote:

ZandorHawke wrote: Serious question as it would seem like I should know this but...

Since you can spawn in at one of four locations in DF mode and two of them are not "owned" by your side, the brakes option doesn't work half the time, right? I seem to remember spawning in, hitting my brakes and getting SK and then realizing I wasn't at my base. Did I dream this? If not, to me, it throws a wrench into the SK in DF mode argument. No different then getting SK by a tank at that point.

Actually you own 3 of the four. the carriers are neutral so both are safe its just the opposing forces base that you don't have protection with brakes.

I think as much as everyone doesn't like it, myself included squad wars is about to open up the game to a whole wide world of possibilities and the squads that adapt and take advantage will win plain and simple. So everyone had better get used to these types of players. The server isn't going to deduct points for poor form. No amount of shame trash talk is going to change the outcome.

I don't see all bad aspects reigning supreme though... I think there are some differences that I think will change games and how players play. There should be balanced sides so a lot of these problems will no longer exist since they come from lopsided teams. I learned something in our DD vs Misfits squad battle...up the middle was useless...and the game took on a whole new form with everyone scattered all over the map and all kinds of new attacks and fighting skills being used. I thought it was fantastic. The game will change but I don't think everyone will be like Zero Ken (yeah I know how to spell it) for that's not the ultimate player. Players like to be proud of themselves and their squad and if they are known as the dirtiest fighting squad, the top talent will leave since they can win without hitting below the belt. I think the belt line will shift for all but I don't see chaos either. The squad with the best strategy, fair play and skill set will win for they will attract and keep the best players and have the best organization.

Completely valid points. When in fact the majority of the veteran players are used to the progression 9 the game to date. It is we as veteran players who need to reassure the newest that it's just a game and the best tactic is to adapt and find counter tactics. Our mini battle was adapt great tool and lots of fun.

Camping spawn killing and dropping are nothing more than a challenge to overcome.

McFate wrote: Unfortunately this is one of those "nice guys finish last" situations.

When I manage to get airborne under campers I often wonder how hard they were trying to spawnkill me. It's a bummer to know that my odds of shooting down a "good guy" are better than my odds of shooting down a "bad guy". Each time I get spawnkilled I try to make a mental note of who did it in hopes that I can return the favour some time.

@ cricket: I understand what you're saying about it being up to the defender to manage the situation when they are the target of a spawnkillers, but tell me.... do you really play such a cutthroat game that you will spawn kill every time you have the opportunity regardless of the player's rank and skill? Are you in support of this or are you just saying that it happens and since there is nothing you can do about preventing anyone from trying you simply have to deal with it? I'm thinking about the newer players here who are reading this because they are trying to learn more about the game. Are you advocating spawnkilling as legitimate and encouraged practice or are you just saying that there are ways of dealing with it?


@ all those who claim to oppose it; are you completely against it? It's a common thing for many otherwise "considerate" players to spawnkill in the end of zep games or while on a bombing approach to south base. I ask you, Is it necessary or is it just a situation where you have decided that it is okay. Do you do it to anyone regardless of rank of the opponent? Is there really no other way to "support your team" or to better your chances of a successful run? If you believe that it is okay to spawn kill all the way into South base you are choosing a behavior that I think is cheap. No big deal here. I don't think you're a bad person or suspect that you would beat your children just because your morals don't match mine. There are probably many times when my bombing runs fail because of my choice not to spawn kill. Have I failed my team? If you're on my side have I let you down?


I'm just trying to point out that it is not all cut and dry. There is no absolute definition of what is acceptable when it comes to spawnkilling. I still think it would be best for the game and everyone in it if there were a period of immunity when you spawn, not just when the brakes are on. Somewhere around 7-8 seconds? It would also be good to turn South base 90º so there were less of an advantage for incoming bombers who are obnoxious enough to spawn kill their whole way in after the last hill.

(Always enjoy reading your posts Fate, even if I disagree. They're always so enlightened )

My answer to that question is this: you trained me lol . I don't like camping, i don't care for spawnkilling in any situation, but in a bombing approach or zeppelin end-game situation, I understand it. For me, I circus fly on a bombing approach and wait for tracers in zeppelin games. Once they open fire, I shoot back, but I give them a sporting chance, why? Because It's not a cutthroat, dog-eat-dog game to me. It's a way to unwind from the dog-eat-dog life I live. As far as dogfight missions, I use the 5 second rule. I give them 5 seconds from wheels up, or I give them the chance to turn (not much of a chance, but it's something). Have I spawnkilled before? Sure, who hasn't. I got mad because I kept losing games, so I took advantage of a situation. But my modus operandi is to give everyone a chance. This makes it more fun for everyone. Now, how do we deal with such inimical behavior? option #1: Breaks, wait, launch, kill/distract for team. Option #2: Leave. They can't pad their numbers if you aren't there. There are six servers, all of which have good players and bad players. You find bad ones, move on to the next one.

Guys,its just a game play it like a "real war".Dogfight is a game were you have to "Fight" without exceptions no matter what way you 'll fight but it stills dogfight.

I am still amazed that yesterday in a DF game a group of us were spawn killed by a member of a squad sitting at base in his tank. One of the guys reported it on his squad thread, I confirmed, and then we were mocked and told "cussing is more bannable than sk'ing and we should just get over it" while the spawn killer was told to go sit in his virtual corner so we would feel better he was punished.....

.....wth is DF coming to?

Big*Joe wrote: I am still amazed that yesterday in a DF game a group of us were spawn killed by a member of a squad sitting at base in his tank. One of the guys reported it on his squad thread, I confirmed, and then we were mocked and told "cussing is more bannable than sk'ing and we should just get over it" while the spawn killer was told to go sit in his virtual corner so we would feel better he was punished.....

.....wth is DF coming to?

Dogfight isn't changing, mate. This is the way Dogfight has always been. The proper question would be "wth is DF?" Ask Jack. Longrifle. Luna. Fate. Nothing here is new, just history repeating itself.

But it's statements like many of these that make new players think anything goes now. When I joined there was a sense of a code. Now it always sounds like many of the old guard have given up, and now the new players feel embolden.

plain and simple the game needs Mods! going to squad and wanting the spawn killing member kicked will not stop him from spawn killing. If Mods where here they could give a 24 to 48 hour ban and hopefully the spawn killer would get the point but sense there isn't actually a punishment there's no stopping it unless you contact Zup but that would have to be something major not someone that spawn killed you.

Here's an idea, at least for the bombing missions...maybe it has already been thought of and shot down in the past but I have never read or seen any idea regarding setting a "timer" on a plane that bombs the other team's base or carrier. You manage to get in and bomb... Now you have a certain amount of time to get out of the area or your plane is gone and you restart from your home base or carrier....maybe you pay a penalty with a death too for incentive.

For example...Say you're German side and you bomb the allied base. Now you have one minute to get back to at least the hill. Then you could turn back and escort and cover another bomber but again, one minute only...that way you can't camp or spawn kill. Just the kills required for your teammate to bomb. Not sure if this is a good idea or not but it's at least a thought...

In the actual dogfight just make it so if you're in the tank at either base within a certain distance you just turn back into a plane just like when the tank gets on the runway or is on the water.

Spawn killing really annoys me as well but I have gotten way better at dealing with it. And if I still can't get off the ground I just leave....take a break and calm down.

Mr.[LF]Becken wrote: plain and simple the game needs Mods! going to squad and wanting the spawn killing member kicked will not stop him from spawn killing. If Mods where here they could give a 24 to 48 hour ban and hopefully the spawn killer would get the point but sense there isn't actually a punishment there's no stopping it unless you contact Zup but that would have to be something major not someone that spawn killed you.

Spawn killing is not nor was it ever bannable. So the idea of bringing back the Mods is pretty ridiculous and not something Zup is considering at this time. Deal with these issues in house. It's pretty simple.

it doesn't really bother me Weather im just tired of the "usual"

it doesn't really bother me Weather im just tired of the "usual"

Yeah I just don't see the overall necessity of a Mod Squad anymore. We have gone without them for the entire summer/winter and the game is doing just peachy. There is still scum out there and you find creative ways of dealing with it and moving on.