How cool is it to finally see a wee little anime head sticking up out of the cockpit? He looks like Manfred Freiherr von DragonBall Z. Too cute.

He overstays his cute, however, the moment you're shot down and he interrupts the flow to laboriously crawl out of the cockpit and jump overboard. We're all accustomed to being able to shoot from the chute once shot. No more. Not nearly as well or effectively or fun, anyway. Now when you're shot down and hit the chute you're almost certain to be dead before your aiming stick thingy is available.

Pilot-san is a great touch. The bail out animation delay is a fun touch that screws with the fun and flow of the game. One asshat's opinion, I know, but no one in the games I played tonight felt any less so. I would hope this to be a very short-lived experiment...keep the guy, ditch the dive. Thoughts?

I don't have a pilot in the cockpit, is this another update that apple users will get in three weeks?

I, for one, wouldn't like to be in the planes I fly.

So I don't blame the little pilot for pulling an AWOL on me!

I'm.with wig it was fun to see him.jump for the first few times. But now its not so funny I get shot before I engendered get to aim now. And if your low to the ground and try to jump you get a crash then you get to choose plane or walk. Just one more death that no one needs. Keep the pilot lose the bailout. Hell half the time you jump the plane that shot you has gone past you and you have no chance to shoot. Just my thoughts

U guys spoke out my thoughts......
Once shot, I most likely wouldn't even bother with the jump anymore.....

I am used to being able to shoot right away after bailing but I have always disliked that part of the game. How frustrating is it when you shoot down enemy planes only to have the pilot, that happens to have room in the cockpit for a carbine, be able to spin around and sight you in, as well as 2 other planes? I swear some players seem to get more kills from their chute than in their plane. I say keep the feature. Not only that but lose the carbine and give him a pistol with a more realistic range and control.

All good and well if Zuperman likes the bail-out, but if we keep it, could we at least remove the ability to kill a chute by continuing to shoot the plane? It won't help with a pilot's quick-fire speed, but it'll reduce the amount of deaths from the parachute on both ends, both of the chute and from it.

A classic conflict between authenticity and gaming fun.

Until only the planes that were in use during specific periods of the war are able to square off against each other...

...and until the WWII carrier on the swimmin' hole is gone...

...and until there's more terrain with considerably more accurate topography...

...and until a lone unarmored foot soldier with a carbine can no longer take out a tank while a (or several) tank shell(s) to the face don't trampoline a soldier in the air and let him come to earth unscratched, like Snuffles having a floating dog-gasm after Quick Draw gives him a milk bone...

...it's gonna be hard to sell the historicity argument.

Personally I'm fine with all of the above, it is, after all, a game first and a historical context a distant second. I'm weighing one thing and only one thing here; how much fun was chute sniping, how much time and practice do we all have invested in mastering it to varying degrees, and how did that game feature stack up in terms of enjoyment against watching the little dude hit the silk? Over and over and gah.

Yes, that was only one thing. Er...

I wasn't thrilled with the performance of the WWI tank when it was introduced but I gave it time and got used to it. The Panzer was a lot goofier but the Renault has spawned a whole new crop of deadly tank-to-air snipers. Like, pretty much anyone. Something else that makes roughly no common sense and has no basis in historical fact...I mean, c'mon, tanks shooting down planes? But it's fun. The pilot bailing out? Notsomuch.

Well.its.been.a.few days with the bail.out. and ie been killed so many times before my chute opens. I might just give up jumping I no longer have a kdr when I jump its more like a death death ratio.

Haven't loaded the update and, in fact, my game time has decreased a lot recently but why should that stop me from commenting!

Does the new update charge you a death if your pilot is killed once you jump? In the past it hasn't so there was no harm to your kill/death ratio. Plus you receive 50 points for landing safely so it's always been a win-win. Just curious if this dynamic has changed at all?

Sounds like there is a "cut-scene" in jumping. Like any cut-scene in any game...interesting the first time and boring the next thousand times. Should be removed.

On the point about the ability of a pilot to go Rambo on other planes and tanks, I've never liked this too much. I'm fine keeping this capability but I would say that planes should be allowed to kill a pilot in a chute by killing the pilot (like there is today) or destroying the chute (maybe 10 shots or so). While we're at it, the tank shells and strafing of a soldier standing on the ground should be a lot easier then it is. Just my opinions to be ignored and belittled.

ZH, the impact of the pilot cut-scene on kills and deads is the near negation of any chance to kill from the chute; it takes so long from the time you hit the button through the cut-scene of the pilot making the conscious decision to climb out of the plane and jump to the familiar but now seemingly protracted moment when the virtual joysticks finally appear, that the likelihood of not already being shredding in your chute is rendered practically nil. So, far fewer kills. The timing of the entire process has been thrown out of joint, choosing the spot to bail doesn't mean that's the spot where you'll land, so aiming for the ridge just inside tank range lands you into respawn-at-base range. So, fewer potential hangars shelled. Timing is also a wild card if you're shot down while at relatively low altitude. Shot, hit the button, pilot runs through his dance moves, screen switches to chute controls...too late, you're on the ground. As Darraxx has pointed out, you get assessed a crash despite having bailed in plenty of time, and the crash is often followed by the "airplane or walk" options, as if you hadn't crashed. It's a mess.

Fewer kills, more crashes, less fun. Otherwise, it's fabulous!

Good point about the foot soldier, I forgot to include "how does a freakin' soldier bring down a plane with a peashooter?" Silly. Not altogether unheard of but on the very rare occasions that it happened in WWI the stray shot hit the pilot, not a few shots to bring down the machine itself.

Wigbomb wrote: Good point about the foot soldier, I forgot to include "how does a freakin' soldier bring down a plane with a peashooter?" Silly. Not altogether unheard of but on the very rare occasions that it happened in WWI the stray shot hit the pilot, not a few shots to bring down the machine itself.

There were quite a lot of ground troops that brought down low flying planes with their rifles. It was far more common than most people realize from my understanding.

As for historically accurate we shouldn't have parachutes at all with our pilots because the fighter pilots in WWI didn't have them available, only the spotters in the balloons had them as far as I am aware.

ZebraUp wrote:

Wigbomb wrote: Good point about the foot soldier, I forgot to include "how does a freakin' soldier bring down a plane with a peashooter?" Silly. Not altogether unheard of but on the very rare occasions that it happened in WWI the stray shot hit the pilot, not a few shots to bring down the machine itself.

There were quite a lot of ground troops that brought down low flying planes with their rifles. It was far more common than most people realize from my understanding.

As for historically accurate we shouldn't have parachutes at all with our pilots because the fighter pilots in WWI didn't have them available, only the spotters in the balloons had them as far as I am aware.

Yes you are right zebra, most pilots didn't have parachutes.... But some did, ernst udet was given a parachute and it actually saved his life in a dogfight where his plane caught on fire and yes, ground troops did occasionally shoot down planes example: the red baron

[WB]War hawk1-5 wrote:

ZebraUp wrote:

Wigbomb wrote: Good point about the foot soldier, I forgot to include "how does a freakin' soldier bring down a plane with a peashooter?" Silly. Not altogether unheard of but on the very rare occasions that it happened in WWI the stray shot hit the pilot, not a few shots to bring down the machine itself.

There were quite a lot of ground troops that brought down low flying planes with their rifles. It was far more common than most people realize from my understanding.

As for historically accurate we shouldn't have parachutes at all with our pilots because the fighter pilots in WWI didn't have them available, only the spotters in the balloons had them as far as I am aware.

Yes you are right zebra, most pilots didn't have parachutes.... But some did, ernst udet was given a parachute and it actually saved his life in a dogfight where his plane caught on fire and yes, ground troops did occasionally shoot down planes example: the red baron

yes, but red baron wasnt brought down by a rifle, he was shot down from one bullet that struck him, not his plane.

Yes kestrel i was just pointing out that he was brought down by a man on the ground, even though it hit him and not his plane

I love the bail out animation its ascetically pleasing, and feels realistic, and secondly it prevents me from flying into your parachute, and it prevents you from killing me before I fly past.
This is what happens when you make a habit of shooting people in the parachute, the animation for bailing out, you get shot and killed adding salt to your wounds, in the end, the people who are complaining have ether, made a habit of killing parachute-rs, or Parashoot other pilots.
I love the new animation, stop complaining because you KDR drops a bit over it, I like the bail out animation, im taking it. Quit complaining this is what I wanted for a long time was just a guy in the cockpit but now theres animation to the bail out, the silver lining.

Spoken like someone who can neither kill a parachutist nor kill from a chute. Instead of complaining that people are complaining about something you can't master, try learning to play the game like the rest of us have.

Wigbomb wrote: Spoken like someone who can neither kill a parachutist nor kill from a chute. Instead of complaining that people are complaining about something you can't master, try learning to play the game like the rest of us have.

I have mastered it, I gust dont do it, I personally prefer to make it to the ground get the coins and re-spawn, I prefer to move from one target to the next, I would rather not take unnecessary rust by trying to shoot a tiny target then get shot by that target or by another plane.
I have a right to complain about getting shot by someone in a parachute not because I cant do it but because I feel I could shoot a plane down with less ammo then a parachute-er.
By you saying I cant master something negative is a complement, you just said I can stay in the air longer than you could, because the only way most people master shooting from the parachute is to get shot down, but when you say shooting at the parachute is not my mastery, you are saying that I cant shoot. I assure you I can shoot, I find it more Conservative of my ammo to shoot at a bigger target then a parachute-er, who can shoot you because your a bigger target than he.
And wig I can get out of the plane just fine, I dont see what your problem is, maybe you just unskilled at jumping from a virtual plane with a virtual character in a virtual game, maybe you get shot down alot, learn to be more skill full to not get shot down not just once, but twice.

Yellow1Blaze wrote:

Wigbomb wrote: Spoken like someone who can neither kill a parachutist nor kill from a chute. Instead of complaining that people are complaining about something you can't master, try learning to play the game like the rest of us have.

I have mastered it, I gust dont do it, I personally prefer to make it to the ground get the coins and re-spawn, I prefer to move from one target to the next, I would rather not take unnecessary rust by trying to shoot a tiny target then get shot by that target or by another plane.
I have a right to complain about getting shot by someone in a parachute not because I cant do it but because I feel I could shoot a plane down with less ammo then a parachute-er.
By you saying I cant master something negative is a complement, you just said I can stay in the air longer than you could, because the only way most people master shooting from the parachute is to get shot down, but when you say shooting at the parachute is not my mastery, you are saying that I cant shoot. I assure you I can shoot, I find it more Conservative of my ammo to shoot at a bigger target then a parachute-er, who can shoot you because your a bigger target than he.
And wig I can get out of the plane just fine, I dont see what your problem is, maybe you just unskilled at jumping from a virtual plane with a virtual character in a virtual game, maybe you get shot down alot, learn to be more skill full to not get shot down not just once, but twice.

I wonder what you will get to first? 500 posts or 100 thank you's?

I see no one jumping out of planes? What am I missing here

DoGss wrote: I see no one jumping out of planes? What am I missing here

Joe, with last week's update there's now a few second long cut-scene of the anime pilot crawling out and diving over the side whenever you're shot down. It takes just long enough to make any realistic chance of shooting from the parachute pretty much impossible from relatively low altitude. Even at higher altitude the oncoming reds have 3-4 added seconds to blow you out of your chute while you're stuck watching Sailor Moon bail.

Yellow Blaze, obviously you know better than I do, I defer to your greater experience and expertise. Whatever the hell you said.

Wigbomb wrote:

DoGss wrote: I see no one jumping out of planes? What am I missing here

Joe, with last week's update there's now a few second long cut-scene of the anime pilot crawling out and diving over the side whenever you're shot down. It takes just long enough to make any realistic chance of shooting from the parachute pretty much impossible from relatively low altitude. Even at higher altitude the oncoming reds have 3-4 added seconds to blow you out of your chute while you're stuck watching Sailor Moon bail.

Yellow Blaze, obviously you know better than I do, I defer to your greater experience and expertise. Whatever the hell you said.

Now im torn between wanting to see this guy jump out the plane pretty badly, but being frustrated as hell with all the things you've said about it. It has to be great the first time.

Yes it sounds cool, i think we will get it in a differnent update or something cause i dont see it either

it's cool the first three times. Three hundred times later...not cool.

To Zups,
This is a Question he himself must ask to answer.....
Is he making this game into a more Realistic bounded type Scenario Game Play? or
Keeping with the fun loving Bang, Bang, Ha, Ha type of game play?...
It's great animation(the pilot crawling out of the plane before jumping)...don't get me wrong and the time spent on it must be something to....
But the game play has suffered from the effect of the change.....
It's always a juggle between realisim fetures or fun game play..
eg. Capture the Carrier... Now where in the blazzers did it ever happen in WW1 or 2 that either side had to take over Ships....
But as I played my games, I've grown to like this mission cos it holds team work( if ever there's more then 2 players on the same side, lol).
Yes flying into a chute sux if ur the one flying into it(lol), tank getting blown up by a soldier(lol) tank shoots down planes (lol) parachute guy shoots down another parachute guy in a quick draw(lol) tank v tank(lol)
There's so much laughs that can come from a chute guy, but saddly I to choose Not to open up a chute due to the new feture... It's not practical
anymore, nor many others that do....
So I Question this new feture becouse I find it has taken Out Part of this Game the word FUN...
Nanoo, Nanoo......Mork signing off

I don't have the update,and if I did I couldn't play because internet gave up the ghost,but not being able to jump 10 feet above the ground and survive seems good to me,fly higher,and you have a better chance of getting out in time. I haven't seen it yet,but it sounds good to me,adds an extra bit of strategy. Does getting killed in a chute count as a death now? It hasn't before

Well, of course, you need to see what you're commenting on before commenting on it. More altitude isn't the solution, the cut-scene still interrupts game flow. That part was fairly well dialed in as it was, with the things that scream for attention in the game (tank glitches come to mind) plane-to-chute transition timing wasn't one. It is now.

Ok

Just wanted to jump in and add my 2¢.... Love the guy in the plane (it's been long overdue! ) and the bail sequence, but could it be adjusted somehow so that the chutist can't be downed by shooting the plane as he's jumping from it and after he's jumped? This would solve the problem of being shot before you can pull up the stick to return fire from the chute.
Also, since there is a guy in the cockpit now, are one-shot kills going to be possible, kinda like when you hit him when he's in a chute? It seems like it would only make sense...
Anyway, 'nuff of me ranting... Keep the guy, but adjust the bail sequence.

The pilot itself is a keeper, we all seem to agree. It's only the bailing out cut-scene that I object to. An extraneous bit of business the thought behind which I can easily see from a creative standpoint; once you have an idea like, "Hey, I know! If there's a pilot we could show him bailing out! That'd be cool!" it's difficult not bring it to life.

In this case the clever idea did not take into consideration the impact it would have on the basic game play and flow of being shot down and opting for a parachute. Ignore realism, that isn't at issue. This is about fun and I miss the fun of chute shooting despite the fact that a change in gaming device over a year ago cut my chute accuracy and kill scores by about 70%. I enjoy that aspect of the game enough to not be overly concerned about kills v. deads. Chute battles, the chance to clip the plane that just brought yours down, a much greater likelihood of landing and taking to a tank, all this contributed to the overall enjoyment of Dogfight and I find the game less enjoyable with the change.

Many of the changes in Dogfight have been great; bigger hangars, two bombs, the Renault F-17 tank. Some changes prove themselves to be good ideas on paper and detrimental game features in practice; the railroad, the Fokker D.VIII...and the bail-out animation.