I moved this since my argument has nothing to do with that threads topic

=£= Ziza wrote:

[DD]Whiplash wrote:

=£= Ziza wrote: PD oh, by the way, it is curious that whip him like your comment, because when that happened that I bombardié hangars using the tactic of sneaking, he chased me almost reached my base for shooting me, allowing the rest of the pilots penetrated their territory, only to try to break me, even taking into account that I was going from his territory

Wow...almost back to your base...you never made it past midfield...but it's about as accurate as the rest of what you say. I'm done with this...we know your position and ours lets just leave it at that.

good whip, as I mentioned, this is not a matter of point of view, is that you have a concept of cowardice far from its true meaning and especially its practical application. Apparently you confuse cowardice with intelligent acts and courage acts which have advantage over your enemies.

I repeat again, I have an argument, I quoted logical facts and history, but your argument only refers to a game "fair"

I'll help a little with your argument,bcs it's a little hard to decipher, but what I say has a very strong argumentative fracture: I'm trying to expand the expectations of the application of a game that has been played for a long time in the same way, and that, under any circumstances, is going against the methodology used by many, and the same methodology is what keeps them effective statistics of many pilots, pretty much what I am proposing, though I say historical and logical arguments, is a restructuring of one of the most played games, and that will certainly have many problems with pilots who only know how to do what is already being done.

therefore, as I said, the only thing I'm asking is that if someone else does something different, understand that is achieved should not be demonized, much less socially isolated. the game can not be always played in the same way, and if you can not adapt to change, or even I can not, should not be cause for tantrums.

That's the fracture that I see in my argument, ask maturity

Yes I often confuse intelligence and cowardice how silly of me. The argumentative nature of my comments come from the fact that you continue this stupid argument that is beneath me and I only continue in the hopes of making others who are, like you, feeling that to win at all costs benefits the game.

Why is it that you ALWAYS OMIT THE POINT, ONLY IN MISMATCHED TEAMS? You tack it on somewhere in the middle of the argument that it covers this too. Of course it's a better way to win, of course you think it's right, what do you care about any of us here? You really think we never thought of going around the planes shooting at us? Maybe you will understand this, say you have 2 groups of friends, they from different schools or towns or whatever but you are all friends. You decide to play soccer (Football) and for some reason one side has 4 players only and the other comes with 16. Would you play the other 4 dancing around them using your large advantage of numbers to hammer in goal after goal. Well if you did I bet the 4 wouldn't be your friends any more. That's the point I am making. In that situation do you not loan some players to the other side so you can have a decent game or do you care about the win more?

So back to cowardice, you can't do what you are doing if the numbers are reversed. If you are in a 5 vs 2 and you are the 2 and you go way outside you leave 1 vs 5 down the middle and that would be the end. Maybe you would get 1 hangar but that would be nothing compared to the assault on yours. I call it cowardly since you are all the same you don't sneak at the start it's after being mowed down over and over that you decide to go way around because you can't win the fight even against an outnumbered enemy.

Someone who runs from a fight to take more advantage of an already disadvantaged enemy is a coward!

Or is that your superior intelligence? You'd think all this intelligence of which you speak could be used to remember the actual facts of the game or to consider all points of my counter arguments instead of picking and choosing what you care to address.

So you feel that we go down the middle because we are brainwashed or conditioned to do so...I go down the middle to keep my team alive. If I am in a team that does not have a strong head to head player and I go chasing a tank or sneaker or whatever quickly my team starts to get over run and we have a huge disadvantage and often lose. The game is played like this by so many because this is what we have learned. I love people who come into a situation with much less experience who believe they know much more than those with the experience. Wow the audacity! It's a simple matter of time and the way the game works. The fastest route is a straight line, if I can hit and take down in head to head I can make it all the way there before anyone could go around or high, hit the hangar respawn and defend. So you must defend the center, if you have less skill and less pilots you will be pushed back further and further until you are no longer even able to sneak because you spawn from a base that is surrounded by the enemy. When you have played more you will understand or probably not given the amount of time it's taken me to get the simplest of points even understood by you let alone accepted.

I await your next blind rambling of how dumb we all are for playing like we do and how taking advantage of a smaller team is in fact brave and good for everyone.

"Please reds¡ no sneaking me¡¡ im only two¡¡¡¡"- somewhere, sometime, but a coward lol

if you want to call me a coward, that's fine, but be sure that I will never complain to fight under difficult circumstances, as you do

My answer is in the topic that I started, and is there for the simple reason that it is the section in Spanish

PD: if you want, we can join the two positions and make a final regulation that will be used by all players, you think?

Hey Whip, I hate to see you continue on with this. Just continue to play the way you play and be who you are ingame and I'll still know your one of the one's I like to play DF with....

I don't get on here much anymore. Doesn't matter why.
Had more to say, about blacklist, people vying for attention, doing things's they or you (you meaning many individuals) wouldn't do hiding behind a screen on the internet. , . , Basicly correlating all I see on this forum and game to the way I see things in life..... Funny I'm gonna step back and away... I can see the heads spinning now......

Whip, just be one of the ones I enjoy playing the game with.... Play the way you alway's do...
The You above wasn't directed at You Whip. That's why the paranthesis.

At least I understand what I'm trying to say....

=£= Ziza wrote: "Please reds¡ no sneaking me¡¡ im only two¡¡¡¡"- somewhere, sometime, but a coward lol

if you want to call me a coward, that's fine, but be sure that I will never complain to fight under difficult circumstances, as you do

My answer is in the topic that I started, and is there for the simple reason that it is the section in Spanish

PD: if you want, we can join the two positions and make a final regulation that will be used by all players, you think?

Dent is right (Thanks Dent) and this is degenerative to all. You have misunderstood my motivation for calling you a coward and no amount of explaining is working. It's not me I am trying to get you to change for, it's the community. Ask around I fight and help more undermanned teams than anyone, since I swap to put myself there. The spanish version is even more disconnected from the point and I will finally say I don't care to explain any longer. Those who know me and this game know what I am saying maybe in time you will too.

Don't sweat it Whip, It's a HOT topic with many different views it's easy to get caught up in ones passions for the game and what one thinks is fair play or not.

When I'm in a game and out numbered, as I fly across the middle. Tearing through the hoards of newer players. I know it's coming, one of two things is going to happen, they either leave or sneak. That's the only thing that can help their egos. Go find an easy win game, or go around the fight. So the others can say "Good Job". It used to bother me to no end. It would take me out of my game. Now I look for it, it's a sign of the red team falling apart. If you catch one sneaker, or maybe two, then they start to bail. That's when they get quiet, or try to switch to your team.
sir Whip, let me ask you, Have you EVER switched to the Bigger team? Me neither. I would love even teams, but that's a dream. So if I have to choose, its outnumbered for me. I love to switch to the outnumbered side. Then change the tide, and win with one wing commander by my side. Don't let the sneaks get to you. It will never change. Like was said before, keep playing your game. We know who YOU are.

I love being outnumbered in a game, especially if the reds are good seasoned players, what better way to sharpen your skills. Win or lose who cares, I just love a good fight. To tell you the truth I would much rather have you, wig or the other top players as red.

Well put my brother I always prefer a good fight rather than an easy win as so many pilots feel that way. I will go down that valley of death and I shall fear no evil because I'm the biggest baddest. M##$** f$$%%% in the valley. A game of atrichion
Duke it out. And its also a well known fact once the fighters got tangled up with other fighters they were little to no help to.the bombers during we 1 the bombers almost always went un escorted when they hit the lines I like my military history and when they hit the line all fighters went at it leaving just the bombers witch in the first part of the war were nothing more than recon planes dropping hand held bombs they went in alone with out fighter cover and still fought on sometimes they made it sometimes they didn't this is war do your dam job the best you can you either live or die I've learned to fly like ww1 pilots as this is what the game is supposed to be. Now no Krebs comments on this subject its giving me a headache

Being out numbered is probably the most fun you can have I this game. Iv flown many mission by myself against 7 reds...granted they weren't all moraf's but I did defend my one hanger for 15min alone I still lost do to overwhelming numbers but I had the highest kdr score I the match. It gives you more targets to shoot at and many of them easily get distracted by the fact they think I so t notice them till I droppem....now situations like last night me being the lowest ranking and least experienced in an awsome squad war ill admit I snuck 3 times, going against what I was goin against still flew straight down the middle and did some killin and got killed... it was fun but I didn't use sneaking as a tactic more like just to stay alive more than 1.2 minutes against moraf's.lol.that being said sneaking In outnumbered matches is cheap and that's something I won't do,if u have numbers on ur side there is absolutely now reason to sneak unless ur just trying to protect your kdr...which makes your a sissy wuss.lol

You did better than great in that game sir Joker, I for one was impressed how you handled yourself. You will move up the ranks quickly. I believe one of the D's in front of your name stands for Deadly. Congratz

Well, for all who thinkg I'm only try to take care my k/d ratio, you are making a accusations whit out argument. You don't know me. I have an argument wrot in Spanish section. Like i say, if you only gonna shoot face to face in the valley of death, i don't wonna be part of that way of figth, that's its so amateur.

One more think, whit or whit out bomb, or in the valley of death or sneaking , I can get close to the hangars. And again, I don't need make numbers, I don't protect my tactics, or my k/ d ratio, you don't know me. And believe me, play or no play hangars missions no makes big difference in my stads. And like the same way many friends of whip are making accusations vs me, I will like my friends tolk about me and say you what person I am, but I just have 1.5 month in the game and I don't have many friend.

This topic it's no a discucion about the tactics, this discussion became a series of allegations to my person and my style, and not be a way to discuss the game mode. Like a say, you don't know me

It is best to say the discussion is now over...we have both stated our sides over and over and there is no need to make any further accusations of each other. I believe that Ziza and I have made wrong assessments of each other in the short time we made our judgment. The more I read what he has to say the more I feel there is a lot of confusion and we most likely agree on a lot of this it more the circumstances we are placing on the answers we give and so it comes off that we are complete opposites.

Overall we have decided to agree to disagree if by language barrier or by different schools of thought but its starting to drift into personal attack and that's not good for anyone. Thanks for the support everyone and Ziza is right in that he doesn't have the same tenure to have this kind of backup so he will feel alienated and that is also not good. Away from this topic he seems very respectfull and a great pilot so let's let him show us who he is in the games he plays and let's agree this discussion is over.

I was very pleased that he wished me well in my then upcoming battle so to return the favor I wish him well in his dogfight life and I hope to leave this all behind and we can kill reds together some day soon.

Davy Crockett wrote: I love being outnumbered in a game, especially if the reds are good seasoned players, what better way to sharpen your skills. Win or lose who cares, I just love a good fight. To tell you the truth I would much rather have you, wig or the other top players as red.

I must say...I cant say it any better that davy...but I will try.

I fight going straight up the middle because that's where the action is, its the fastest way to make it to the enemy base, and (id hope) its the fastest way from theirs to yours, therefore all the pilots go along the same path, not because of brainwashing but because of logic. With my straight up the middle tactics, I tend to be one of the highest killers in the match, even with morafs, and usually one of the best kdrs as well...you don't need to sneak to have a good kdr, or to stay alive...suck it up...sometimes you get shot. Big deal! respawn and go at it again...maybe you ge shot again, maybe you go on a kill streak and have to reload before you are shot. its all part of the game.

In my opinion any tactic goes. If I end up in a match were the other team is outnumbered I will switch to help them out but as fare as the tactics used to win the game that is up to the pilots on each team as to what they are going to do. When I am flying in a game I usually can hold the middle field and protect from sneakers very well for a good while long enough at least for people to sneak around the edge of the map around 5 times before things start falling apart. I honestly would rather have all my teams mates all just go and take different routes to the target zone while I hold every one off for the time it takes them to get their and bomb.

Having 3 enemy pilots diving in on your base from straight above is a difficult task for even a group of fighter pilots to handle due to a vertical fight were dipping a wing will not move you over to hit them but instead you have to do a lot of rolling and elevator control. Then add these 3 pilots all in a hard barrel roll and constantly changing flight pattern. Some one is going to get in and bomb. If you have a strong pilot defending the center of the map from a whole team that is just flying down the middle things will not look good for you even if the pilot is just taking one guy down each time.

In my opinion having every pilot on your team flying right down the center is a fools plan unless your enemy is doing exactly the same. If you think about it even if the enemy is doing the same thing as you it is still a fools move because you should be doing something to set them off guard and make their defense crumble. Nothing makes a defense crumble like two pilots who snuck around form up high doing a double formation barrel roll right at your hangers.

Unfortunately we do not have any form of team chat so its a pain relaying a strategy to your team mates because your enemys can read it.

Skydavis1 wrote: In my opinion any tactic goes. If I end up in a match were the other team is outnumbered I will switch to help them out but as fare as the tactics used to win the game that is up to the pilots on each team as to what they are going to do. When I am flying in a game I usually can hold the middle field and protect from sneakers very well for a good while long enough at least for people to sneak around the edge of the map around 5 times before things start falling apart. I honestly would rather have all my teams mates all just go and take different routes to the target zone while I hold every one off for the time it takes them to get their and bomb.

Having 3 enemy pilots diving in on your base from straight above is a difficult task for even a group of fighter pilots to handle due to a vertical fight were dipping a wing will not move you over to hit them but instead you have to do a lot of rolling and elevator control. Then add these 3 pilots all in a hard barrel roll and constantly changing flight pattern. Some one is going to get in and bomb. If you have a strong pilot defending the center of the map from a whole team that is just flying down the middle things will not look good for you even if the pilot is just taking one guy down each time.

In my opinion having every pilot on your team flying right down the center is a fools plan unless your enemy is doing exactly the same. If you think about it even if the enemy is doing the same thing as you it is still a fools move because you should be doing something to set them off guard and make their defense crumble. Nothing makes a defense crumble like two pilots who snuck around form up high doing a double formation barrel roll right at your hangers.

Unfortunately we do not have any form of team chat so its a pain relaying a strategy to your team mates because your enemys can read it.

EXACTLY!!!
People need to remember: its just a game; and as a game, the goal is to win. Simply as that. I said it before, about one or two good players going middle, while other two or three going widely flanked. Its so damn simple and logic that I simply cant understand why the heck people insist on callin cowards those who simply use their brains!
And yes, i second you on this: how I miss team-only chat...
"Karma" up, Skydavis!!!

.Pedrinho. wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote: In my opinion any tactic goes. If I end up in a match were the other team is outnumbered I will switch to help them out but as fare as the tactics used to win the game that is up to the pilots on each team as to what they are going to do. When I am flying in a game I usually can hold the middle field and protect from sneakers very well for a good while long enough at least for people to sneak around the edge of the map around 5 times before things start falling apart. I honestly would rather have all my teams mates all just go and take different routes to the target zone while I hold every one off for the time it takes them to get their and bomb.

Having 3 enemy pilots diving in on your base from straight above is a difficult task for even a group of fighter pilots to handle due to a vertical fight were dipping a wing will not move you over to hit them but instead you have to do a lot of rolling and elevator control. Then add these 3 pilots all in a hard barrel roll and constantly changing flight pattern. Some one is going to get in and bomb. If you have a strong pilot defending the center of the map from a whole team that is just flying down the middle things will not look good for you even if the pilot is just taking one guy down each time.

In my opinion having every pilot on your team flying right down the center is a fools plan unless your enemy is doing exactly the same. If you think about it even if the enemy is doing the same thing as you it is still a fools move because you should be doing something to set them off guard and make their defense crumble. Nothing makes a defense crumble like two pilots who snuck around form up high doing a double formation barrel roll right at your hangers.

Unfortunately we do not have any form of team chat so its a pain relaying a strategy to your team mates because your enemys can read it.

EXACTLY!!!
People need to remember: its just a game; and as a game, the goal is to win. Simply as that. I said it before, about one or two good players going middle, while other two or three going widely flanked. Its so damn simple and logic that I simply cant understand why the heck people insist on callin cowards those who simply use their brains!
And yes, i second you on this: how I miss team-only chat...
"Karma" up, Skydavis!!!

Thats the point, but the problem arises when it seems necessary to get permission to use a different style to avoid being singled out or called with derogatory adjectives.

I have seen many times the phrase " if you are red, you are death" But in practice, there is clearly a moral issue if you do not give advantage to red when they are unnumered , and then I do not understand those who say they love being disadvantaged but ask not to use tactics against a team at a disadvantage, it is then that they only look easy targets?

I'm just saying that if a team increases his effectiveness with tactics while the opposing team does the same as always, is not the fault of the team with tactics the enemy do nothing for defend or change his strategy. but above all, avoid offending whit value judgments when thats happen

[DD]*joker* wrote: sneaking In outnumbered matches is cheap and that's something I won't do,if u have numbers on ur side there is absolutely now reason to sneak unless ur just trying to protect your kdr...which makes your a sissy wuss.lol

How you can protect a kdr if you only bomb hangars in a sneaking tactic? The hangars its part of the kdr to ? The missions its the hangars, not the enemy planes

=£= Ziza wrote:

[DD]*joker* wrote: sneaking In outnumbered matches is cheap and that's something I won't do,if u have numbers on ur side there is absolutely now reason to sneak unless ur just trying to protect your kdr...which makes your a sissy wuss.lol

How you can protect a kdr if you only bomb hangars in a sneaking tactic? The hangars its part of the kdr to ? The missions its the hangars, not the enemy planes

Simple by avoiding the fire fight...now I thought I had a nice gesture and I thought this was all said and done? Well if you all want to dig it up go ahead, I'm done.

To all..I think in this game everyone plays it their own way just as in life we all make different decisions about the same thing.I like to think I play fair but I would not judge anyone on their tactics..I would question some of the things I've seen but it's a game..a brilliant one at that..and one of the best aspects of it is playing with people from all over...enjoy df is a good find..

I think people should be able to play how they want to and not get called names for it. I get muted for saying my name but nobody gets muted.for name calling and that's a shame.

I played a game where it was 7 against 1, and I was on the larger team. I decided to switch teams to help the poor fellow on the other side. When I did, we held out on a shaky defense. My teammate soon had to leave the game early for reasons that are perfectly understandable, but that left me alone with the other team.

Some of them dropped, sneaked, and attempted to spawn kill. And there was absolutely nothing I could do except fight back, so that's what I did.

Luna wrote: I played a game where it was 7 against 1, and I was on the larger team. I decided to switch teams to help the poor fellow on the other side. When I did, we held out on a shaky defense. My teammate soon had to leave the game early for reasons that are perfectly understandable, but that left me alone with the other team.

Some of them dropped, sneaked, and attempted to spawn kill. And there was absolutely nothing I could do except fight back, so that's what I did.

Exactly , stay, figth, the situation it's dificult, but stay, and if you make a very good defense, make sur the enemy gonna make another tactic more than only fly directly to your guns. In this game, the hangars mode it's the most dificult and the game with most p,possible ways to play, and only use one it's a early death of the imagination

ziza I just want u to kno my post was in now way about you specifically. I don't kno u well enough to make that kind of call, I was simply stating from my expierence flying with other pilots non of which are you..please understand I didn't aim that at you it was just my opinion on the subject so please don't take offense. and actually hangers don't effect kdr just your overall world rank score from hanger hits and decides if u win or lose the match. that's why its called kill death ration not hkdr.

Ok after reading and posting on this thread I'm very sure I will need a frontal.labotomy. and some deep.shock.treatment. this is the last time I look.at his thread. Like I said you drop.on outnumbered guys cause they have to drop so they can defend. I will not I choose to choose to give the few advantage of maneuvering while I do not BECAUSE IM ON THE GOD DAMNED TEAM WITH THE NUMBERS

Numbers doesn't always guarantee you a victory. I spawned into a game with 1 hangar left and 6 reds, one of them bombless. Going up the middle didn't work for them, so some of tried to sneak in a couple times, big deal. I stopped them every time, eventually some of them left, more blues joined in, and we won the game.

Defending planes have plenty of time and a heck of a lot more speed to notice and catch any sneakers, as far as I'm concerned. I think it's smart to prepare yourself for potential sneakers.

Does that mean I'll sneak in all the time if I'm the one with a huge numbers advantage? No, but I'll keep that in my back pocket if I'm up against one or two of the best, and they are lighting up the middle. It may be the only way in, and they should be more than capable of stopping a sneaker.

OK.IM.HIGH JACKING THIS THREAD SHOULD SPANDEX HAVE A WEIGHT LIMT?

darraxx wrote: OK.IM.HIGH JACKING THIS THREAD SHOULD SPANDEX HAVE A WEIGHT LIMT?

Lol. Maybe a muscle to weight ratio limit. If your 300 pounds of muscle then go ahead but if your 300 pounds of fat and 100 pounds of muscle many you should go with the sports shorts and not the spandex.

Omg lmao its just makes you wonder when you see someone in spandex pushing a cart of ding dongs ho ho's Twinkies and Swiss rolls and pulling a cart of diet soda. Well I don't know what m thinking other than will it hurt if I gouge out my own eyes

Y'all should get some Heavy Duty Spandex for [M]r. Von Hulk for when he goes into one of his rages.. just saying I think it would save him some money over destroying a pair of pants every time!

Spandex make great bombs...just fill them with fat and watch the rolls and cellulite just explode in high definition.lol