Establishing a fact:
Grey Ghost is a liar.

Definition of liar:
A person who tells lies. Ref: Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Why Grey Ghost is a liar?
Grey Ghost failed to provide any evidence or proof for what he said. His statements are as below:

Statement 1: Saying that I use a double standard handling the squad issues. Although it is nothing to do with him, it is an insult as well as a lie.
Quote from post #158223 in 111th Falcon Thread:
"You reprimand your pilots for camping and such (again Chris Peters)but why not your officer for doing such? Just goes to show where your loyalty lies! With your oldest officers, not the squad in general! Its a double standered thing i guess! Lol this squad has gone down hill since i left, and im damn proud i left! In fact, if im not mistaken thats why Kes, and Dawg left as well!"

Statement 2: Saying that a/an (unknown) Falcon was lying to him concerned with Chris case referring to a time when he was a Falcon.
Quote from post #158252 in 111th Falcon Thread:
"It is what was told to me while i was in there! Umm another lie i take it!"

Statement 3: Accusing Guardian of spawnkilling.
Quote from post #158273 in 111th Falcon Thread:
"Guardian never gave me the chance to let my wheels even move!"

Time given to find the proof:

I have waited more than 3 days to see if Grey Ghost can show any proof for what he said. He failed to do so. Again, Grey Ghost is challenged to provide proof WITHOUT any time limit following this post.

What if Grey Ghost cannot provide 3 proofs for each statement?

The fact that "Grey Ghost is a liar" will continue to exist.

What if Grey Ghost can provide only 1 or 2 proof?

The fact that "Grey Ghost is a liar" will continue to exist.

What if Grey Ghost can provide 3 proofs for his 3 statements?

I would not hesitate a second to apologize Grey Ghost here in public. And, this fact will no longer exist.

Why am I writing this?

I am writing this post to expose truth and establish a fact. Most importantly, I am writing it to prevent future events like this from recurring again and again. Furthermore, Dogfight community is a virtual community with real people, and justice shall always be there for each and every member of this community. This post also aims to notify respective moderators, as well as members to act accordingly.

I believe that most of the questions that may arise in the readers' mind are already answered in the post. Please feel free to ask any question or make any comment.

Conclusion:

Grey Ghost is a liar, who is irresponsible for his own words.

Wow, is Ghost, like, sneaking around with your wife or something? Perhaps he took a piss in your cornflakes this morning? Because you have got a HATE ON for the G man TOO-NITE!
Why would he lie over a game? And why are you putting in such an effort to crucify him? If you ask nice, I'll hook you up with some premium pressure treated lumber and some big ass nails, but he's already a ghost so our chances of success are likely quite slim. Kind of like your attempts to slander GreyGhost.....
What do you want, an HD quality video reenactment of the events in question? Signed affidavits from everyone who saw or read anything from in game? Perhaps you could ask General Jackson to preside over the trial, Cat of Doom could be the defense, and you the prosecutor. I'll take up my place in the peanut gallery and be thrown out before opening statements are even done because I'll be laughing my ass off.

I'll bugger off now, and I am sorry for intruding on your thread, but it looks like you're inching toward a personal attack here. Threads have been locked for that sort of thing hoss.....

I'm sorry but I beg to differ grey was mad and when he's mad he might stretch the truth I honestly don't know if he stretchs the truth when he's mad but I wouldn't call him a flat out liar. and yes on your thread he did go a bit too far but I know grey and he's not a bad person what so ever and I refuse to think he lies until u put proof and show it to me I mean it's not proof if he just didn't have screen shots and sure he can't get u in trouble or something like that without them but I don't believe ghost is a liar

Wow von I hope you put this much effort in your real life....talk about making an effort. Its obvious who the real liar is here. I'm sure a screenshot wouldn't have made much of a difference. ..i'm sure you still would have taken the chance to try and humiliate ghost either way. I think you look foolish for posting something like this if you ever would have taken the chance to get to get to know ghost when he was in the 111th...you would have a lot more trust in his word. JEREMY CAMPS. maybe it's just on Misfits, don't know don't care. You know..just the other day I was in a game with Jeremy, he made it past me..he dropped his bomb and we got into a turning fight..and I was getting no where with that so I thought ok maybe if I stop chasing him he will just leave. Nope...but he did finally catch up to me and shoot me in the backside. Some of you falcons are kinda full of yourselves...stop trying to act like the falcons do nothing wrong.

I'm surprised exterminate wasn't thrown into such an organized post.

Ok Vonny Pooh! Check this out. And as Foust,Kes and a few others and i know for a fact, that even when pics are shown to you all. Some of you will make up some bs on rather that said person did it or not!

Lets say, a falcon was spawn killin, we show a pic and that said pilot says i was on a bombing run! Oops problem solved! Now if one of your pilots saw it, they may or may not tell the truth infear of being let go! Or reprimanded in one way or another! The only sure fire way is if they are tanking spawnkilling and the pic shows the name of said pilot! Then it is irrefutable.

Now you call me a liar Von? I laugh at you! You are trying so hard to burn me out of my squad and this game! I love it. Just gos to show what kind of snob you are Von. I really enjoy reading all your bs on here!

Lets make this Clear Von! I have never, and i mean never called some one out unless it was true. Not when i was a falcon, and not as a MISFIT!

I believe this stems from a small group, that left cause of being ignored buy snobby, uptight, Napoleon wanna be people like you! We started our own Squad and look at us now! No one in this squad gets ignored. Every one has a voice, and is encouraged to speak there minds. (Tastfully done of course).

Early on we were accused of stealing info from you all! Lol never wanted any of your info. Wasnt worth it. Told the same thing to Dogss, coop and Misfit Devil. As well as Kes and HellDawg. The knowledge they have stays with them.

Tell me Von, is it worth doing this thread to try and shut me up, and keep me from saying that some of the falcon pilots are not ANGLES! You set all high and mighty in you snobby chair. Lol knock your self diwn a few pegs Von. Every squad and i do mean every squad has that one or two pilots that ignore the squad rules for their benefit. Yes even the great and all powerful falcons! You just have you head so far up your rear that you dont want to even think thats even possible!

Now SkyDavis has tried to keep this from escalating, and Sky i thank you for that! Now do i lie? Yes, only when I lie down to sleep! So please Vonny Pooh, keep bashing me like this, i find it amusing.

Now, what other bs do you have to flow out of that mouth Von?

Would you please use "liar" in a sentence?

Aaaanndd I think we've now heard both sides. Accusation made, nuhh-uhhh responded, proof requested, no-proof-would-convince-you responded. Do the mods think this might be time to lock this one up and set it aside? I'm typically not a lock-it kind of guy, but this isn't going to go anywhere productive beyond the Airing of Grievances.

Festivus for the Restivus!

Manfred

Wait!


Though I have had very little interest in Falcon Squad Politics, my position as a Misfit has made me aware of some friction experienced by some people when "caught" between the two squads. Much of it appears to have come to point by people leaving the Falcons, some of whom have explained that the Falcon squad heiarchy was detracting from their experience. Grey Ghost is one of these people. I have come to know Grey Ghost quite well lately. From the short amount of time I have recently spent "researching" the Falcons squad I find it easy to see that the organizationaly obsessed Falcons are not an environment condusive to many personalities.

Do not make the mistake that I am referring to playing standards here. Playing standards are important! But why are they important? Is it to uphold the integrety of an ideal? Or is it to promote the common enjoyment of the game? From what I see the 111th Falcons the ideal is primary and the common enjoyment of the game is secondary. While I suspect their thinking may be that the common enjoyment is bettered by high standards I feel that they are in some ways being counter productive with their unnecssarily rigid structure.

Take their following announcement from 10 months 3 weeks ago:

Jeramy wrote: Bulletin



To Whom It May Concern:



Any and All Complaints as to A Falcon Pilot or Recruit will need to be accompanied by a Formal Report……PMd to Any Falcon Officer… As We At Falcon will disregard all complaints Posted In Public As A Feeble Attempt Of Flaming Or The Innocent Cause Of Harm…. We at Falcon HQ have a Disciplinary Committee and the only way those reports will reach that committee is through the Chain Of Command…..

The Process:

· You file a report to 111th Falcon Squadron.

Report Should Be Accompanied with Screen Shots And Witness Accounts

· An Officer will acknowledge that the squad has receives the report.

· The investigation process will begin as soon as there is enough evidence, and the pilots involved are active and reachable.

· If the report is about a Falcon recruit, the squad will consider about it in the evaluation process. No actions will be done since recruit pilots are not full members of the squad.

· The Squad will make the final determination upon the investigation if the reported pilot is a Falcon and will PM the Involved parties as to the outcome ands findings…

Thank you for your time…..

The following was posted in response:

Paul Mantz, Jr. wrote: Are you saying this to all or just your squad?
If to all, I will continue to report the way that is established, through the BLACKLIST.
How you handle your squad is up to you.
DogFight is the higher authority.

This was followed by the following (condescending ?) response:

Jeramy wrote: Well Paul... I am sorry it is so confusing.... I have Faith You will Figuare it out.......

Did Paul miss something? I don't believe so. In fact Mr. PM Jr. was pointing out that the Falcons may be confused by believing that their Squad's by-laws somehow determine the proper way for the entire dogfight community to react when a Falcon member is acting in a way seen as unfair. I admit that I am not a partial observer here but "Jeramy's" post seems condescending and arrogant.


It may be that Shiloh Biggs felt that Jeramy's response lacked something:

Shiloh Biggs wrote: Well Parr of course we want you to report bad things you may see from a Falcon!
However these reports need to be more professional and accompanied by evidence (as was said) otherwise its just "someones word aganst anothers" Please understand what was said and don't make it personal.
(And the post was sent by the Falcon Officers Club, not just by Jeramy)

Hope this helps my friend:)

The Falcons seem to want to dictate the way in which someone will make a complaint about one of their members
and have actually set the burden of proof to be "without a doubt" and they seem to have no interest unless such "proof" has been provided.

Another Falcon posted what seemed an attempt to point out that other players may have some input which may be worthy of consideration to which Von Pay, General Officer, Office of Disciplinary Issues responded with the following:

|111th| Von Pay wrote: We don't do as we wish.

We have sets of rules, codes of ethics and the Constitution of the squad. We take actions according to the statements no matter what and who are involved. We will announce the final determination of the squad if the reported pilot is a Falcon.

...clipped by McFate

If the reported pilot is a Falcon, Office of Disciplinary Issues, led by current 1st in command of the squad, will be investigating the issue. The investigation process will be transparent and fair for both parties, that I can guarantee. We will need proof so that we can decide who is wrong and why. So, without proof, most of the reports will not be accepted. Everybody lies...

Hmm. "Everybody lies..." It's funny how much is conveyed by ones inclusive statements. If this is truely Von Pay's belief what is going on here? Did Grey Ghost ruffle his feathers so much that Von Pay made it personal? Is this an "official" Falcon response?

Ghost is not a Falcon. He told me that he was drawn to the Falcons originally by their commitment to fair play within the game but the squad's "political BS" drove him away. Ghost has a tendancy to get rather worked up when he feels slighted by someone he feels is playing unfairly. Ghosts own high standards make it so this line is often crossed. Often it happens when another player is having "one of those days". It may be that Guardian was having one of those moments or it may be that Ghost was having a moment where he misconceived what Guardian was doing. Who knows? These kinds of misundrestandings seem to happen all of the time. Ghosts complaint about Guardian was obviously written while he was agitated. The trouble seems to be that the Falcons don't care what someone has to say against their pilot without difinitive proof.

Ghost mentioned $chrisgpeters$. From what I have gathered some complaints were made against this pilot shortly before the notices above were issued. From what I have read it is my belief that the accusations against $chrisgpeters$ may not have met the Falcons "burdon of proof" as lined out above. I believe this may be what Grey Ghost was referring to as a double standard; the fact that Falcon member $chrisgpeters$ was kicked from the squad without "the burden of proof" being satisfied while the investigation of a Falcon officer Gurdian (AKA Jeramy) would require irrefutable proof to be worthy of Von Pay's consideration.

|111th| Von Pay wrote: What will happen if you file a report? The process is clearly mentioned in the post #7698 by Jeramy,:

He only fails to mention that he may attack anyone who wishes to air their grevances but lacks a completely air-tight case.


Sigh. Enough.

Why is it that Von Pay's avatars coat and trousers seem to bulge so? What are they stuffed so tightly with?

|111th| Von Pay wrote: With honor and dignity

Loosen up! Lets have some fun with this "GAME"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe that no good will come from this thread. I would encourage this to be discussed privately. I am locking, not deleting, this thread because I feel it's the best thing to do for the forum at large. I also encourage those who have posted here to self moderate and remove your own posts, and pursue your agenda away from the forum.