BigC5798 wrote: Well, we didnt invade Iraq, topple Libya, and about to invade Syria to help US oil, we did it to keep the US dollar intact. The US dollar is worth as much as people think it is.

It would be much better for the economies of oil rich nations to sell oil on the Yen, or Euro. But, now, the US is the richest nation in the world because every country that wants oil has to buy US dollars first. They exchange goods of real value for worthless paper to get oil. If only one country started selling oil on another currency, it would set off a chain reaction that would rightfully destroy the US economy, specifically the banks, which everyone in the US works for. (I can explain that if you want)

2000- Iraq announces it will start selling oil on the Euro

2011- Libya announces it will start a gold based African currency to sell oil on

See the pattern?

Every country that says they will sell oil on something besides the dollar gets a can of "democracy" opened on em via the US Marines.

There is WAY to much to worry about at home too. NDAA, DHS illegal search and seizure, gun bans. At this point, there are so many protest groups that are becoming aware of what the government is doing that in a poll- 30% of people said they were willing to start a revolution, with 20% saying they were undecided. This also exclude the people like myself who are in the ideological revolution. Over 50% of the American people are atleast undecided about their tyrants in power. Ill get sources if you guys want them, but im doing all this off memory right now.

Quite frankly, if i was everyone, i would uninvest my money from everything, and buy gold with it. The dollar is about to collapse, and the economy will follow it.

OH MAN, NOW I AM REALLY SCARED. I need my meds, Dr. Biggs. Quick.

Well there you have it.....David CaMORON and 'our' coalition government have been defeated in parliament!

Maybe the consequences of the Syrian rebellion will turn into David CaMORON losing his 'regime'.

To all Syrians, I am truly sorry.

Damn Manfred... That's all I can say... Take this as my "thank you" to all of your posts. I've been too busy with my own reality to keep up with this particular situation in any detail. I will only add a few thoughts, and they are probably very simple ones when compared to the prior discussion.

A: make absolutely sure that we know who has been using chemical weapons. As stated, the rebels have much more to gain by the use of these weapons, not withstanding those killed by them.

B: make absolutely sure that the VAST MAJORITY of the Syrian people want their regime changed. True change in any country MUST come from within. If we have to sell it to the average citizen, then we aren't going to win. But, if the average citizen already has skin in the game, and just need that additional push to help HIM win, by all means, give him that help.

C: here is the tough one. Limited action produces limited results. If we commit to fight, then we fight and we kill. No rules of engagement, no police actions, no political wars. If it is a threat, it dies. The Syrian ruler? Yup... Dead. His army and supporters? Massacred... Buzzard food. I don't believe in disarming your enemy and then sending him home to get his other gun and come back. No mercy, no BS. If we are not willing to slaughter our enemy, then just stay the hell home. If we show mercy, the enemy will just fade into the population until we get tired and leave. Then, he will carry on as if nothing happened, and whatever blood and treasure we have invested will be in vain.

Well, anyway. There's my 2 cents.

War: The MOST STUPID, COWARD, MEANINGLESS, IRRATIONAL, MONSTRUOUS THING EVER.
So much effort spent to show/get power, while so many people starving to death.
Oh, my mood... Laura, hope I can leave more 40 years for you.
Its the first time I have tears in my eyes by reading this forum. Last 2 cents from me in this thread.
Back to game, back to the jokes.

I understand your sentiment Ped. I want my 8 and 11 year old girls to grow up in a stable world and have long, full lives. But I won't discount war as a solution to some problems, because there is plenty of evil in the world. Without the deterrent of threat of annihilation, much of that evil would simply overrun the peace loving people.

But when is it needed? THAT is a big question. My faith in the world's political leaders' ability to make the right call is at an all time low.

Manfred

Manfred wrote: . My faith in the world's political leaders' ability to make the right call is at an all time low.

Manfred

Tell me Mr. Manfred, has last nights british vote help you feel more fustrated?

JacobR wrote:

Manfred wrote: . My faith in the world's political leaders' ability to make the right call is at an all time low.

Manfred

Tell me Mr. Manfred, has last nights british vote help you feel more fustrated?

Part of the problem is that this issue is SO much more than a parliamentary or congressional vote, and the associated politics (positioning for future election based on a voting record). My own country can't even agree on whether the investigators have found indisputable proof of who is responsible for the chemical attack. Our intelligence departments say No Firm Conclusion, while the Pres, VP, and Sec of State say Yes Firm Conclusion. Only after this is concluded would a vote be meaningful.

Ok now I am listening to the Sec of State say there is consensus on the proof. Yeah right. Actually all he has said is that Syrian civilians were killed and therefore it was Assad. He is not (publicly) considering that this may have beem set up by any one of many entities who would benefit from Assad getting spanked. But anyway, after that is concluded, how about a healthy congressional debate on WHETHER we should intervene?? All indications are that our President will once again skirt the constitution, and make an Executive Decree while only "consulting with" members of congress. Once again, our constitution is being used as nothing more than Washington toilet paper.

Manfred

Pedrinho wrote: War: The MOST STUPID, COWARD, MEANINGLESS, IRRATIONAL, MONSTRUOUS THING EVER.
So much effort spent to show/get power, while so many people starving to death.
Oh, my mood... Laura, hope I can leave more 40 years for you.
Its the first time I have tears in my eyes by reading this forum. Last 2 cents from me in this thread.
Back to game, back to the jokes.

Ped... In a utopian world, you would be exactly right. In war, everyone loses. That's why my feeling is that if we are to go to war, then it must be quick, effective, and decisive. Sadly, in our imperfect world, there are no shortage of ambitious men and women who if given half the opportunity, will make you their bitch. That's why I feel so strongly in my position on gun control also. I feel, because humans are humans, that the only true peace on this Earth is attained by strength, force, and the threat of force. Unfortunately, if there is too much "threat of force" without actual force, then people will want to poke the bear. Now, as many of you may have guessed, I have NO faith in Obama, and no faith in John Kerry. So, if we are going to wade into a mess like this with those two at the helm, I think it's a recipe for disaster. It's terrifying, because those two are in WAY over their heads already, and any involvement by us is probably going to end up being a cluster****. So, as I said in the beginning, we need to make sure our help is WANTED and NEEDED and somehow worth giving. If not, then screw it all and let them kill each other.

Cowards killing children. Kill the cowards...no one else has the guts everyone looks at us to save them from the cowards that kill children. Kill them all!!!! Cowards....

jack burton wrote: Cowards killing children. Kill the cowards...no one else has the guts everyone looks at us to save them from the cowards that kill children. Kill them all!!!! Cowards....

Jack, that argument becomes hypocritical when you consider that under the Clinton administration, 500,000 children were killed because of sanctions put on Iraq by the US. Also, over 750000 innocents have died in the war on terror, who knows how many of them were children. And so far, in 196 recorded US drone strikes 94 children have been confirmed dead, with over twice as many adult civilians.

If we turned our armed forces loose, give them the freedom to do the job and do it right then maybe we could, but its looking strictly like another political fiasco intended to deflect the attention away from all the Obama fraud and his corrupt admin. The most corrupt ever.

I say no because its only going to be a symbolic strike.

Other than that i would say kill them all.

BigC5798 wrote:

jack burton wrote: Cowards killing children. Kill the cowards...no one else has the guts everyone looks at us to save them from the cowards that kill children. Kill them all!!!! Cowards....

Jack, that argument becomes hypocritical when you consider that under the Clinton administration, 500,000 children were killed because of sanctions put on Iraq by the US. Also, over 750000 innocents have died in the war on terror, who knows how many of them were children. And so far, in 196 recorded US drone strikes 94 children have been confirmed dead, with over twice as many adult civilians.

thats because the cowards surround themselves with children, makes the cowards feel safe. Cowards!!!!

jack burton wrote:

BigC5798 wrote:

jack burton wrote: Cowards killing children. Kill the cowards...no one else has the guts everyone looks at us to save them from the cowards that kill children. Kill them all!!!! Cowards....

Jack, that argument becomes hypocritical when you consider that under the Clinton administration, 500,000 children were killed because of sanctions put on Iraq by the US. Also, over 750000 innocents have died in the war on terror, who knows how many of them were children. And so far, in 196 recorded US drone strikes 94 children have been confirmed dead, with over twice as many adult civilians.

thats because the cowards surround themselves with children, makes the cowards feel safe. Cowards!!!!

And at that point it isn't worth it to kill the terrorist. Let a sniper do it, not a missile that will kill more innocents than terrorists

BigC5798 wrote:

jack burton wrote:

BigC5798 wrote:

jack burton wrote: Cowards killing children. Kill the cowards...no one else has the guts everyone looks at us to save them from the cowards that kill children. Kill them all!!!! Cowards....

Jack, that argument becomes hypocritical when you consider that under the Clinton administration, 500,000 children were killed because of sanctions put on Iraq by the US. Also, over 750000 innocents have died in the war on terror, who knows how many of them were children. And so far, in 196 recorded US drone strikes 94 children have been confirmed dead, with over twice as many adult civilians.

thats because the cowards surround themselves with children, makes the cowards feel safe. Cowards!!!!

And at that point it isn't worth it to kill the terrorist. Let a sniper do it, not a missile that will kill more innocents than terrorists

yes I agree, but now days they Softin up them cowards with air strikes. They kill children to get our attention because they want to fight us they think they can beat us in a fight. Well they have our attention if they want a fight with us don't be cowards and hide behind children stand up like real men like the us army, marines, Air Force, navy,They don't hide behind children.

Even if it is a little harsh, i think it has good roots...

What's going on in Syria is of no business of the US especially now that Britain has backed down. If we do anything we will be doing it ALONE. We would have no support from the rest of the world. Having said that i believe that OBAMA will bomb Syria today.
Today is SAT morning, the markets are closed and Obama will have to do something to deflect away from his poor administration and policy's. he will do this before the Sunday talk shows.

It is a real shame that the above is happening, it's a shame that the world will not stand together to stop the killing of the innocent.

Look at all the other nations killing each other to. I heard on the news that the killing of CHRISTIANS in Egypt is being compared to the Middle Ages. Christian men women and children are being slaughtered and hardly anything is being said about it.

OK, Time to add my two penneth.

Britain has not backed down!
The House of Commons voted (not in a free vote) to not approve premeditated strikes against the Syrian government without UN inspection team confirmation that the afore mentioned government had used WMD's against civilians and the UN sanctioning actions.
The house may vote again depending on the details of the inspection report.
We sent troops into Iraq for gulf war two based on political lies regarding availability of WMD. Perhaps we have learned a lesson.

US action, if it is taken is unlikely to be unilateral. France appears to support this step and there will no doubt be others (Turkey for example)

Add to this....
1 - if missiles hit chemical storage areas, the residue from explosions could kill 1000's
2 - in 2003, air strikes alone could not topple the Iraqi leadership. (Do you want to commit troops to another ground war)

I have done my time, I have served my country.
In that time i met some of the best people I will ever know, some i got on with, some i didn't but every last one trusted with my life when the Sht hit the fan.
Do i think these boys should be sent to fight another Arab war? No I damn we'll don't

And with the national debt as high as it is, who can afford it?
Cuts galore in the UK, Soldiers being made redundant, Harrier force mothballed, No aircraft carriers, (very little navy)
Can't really comment on the US situation except $17 trillion dollar debt and another deadline looming.

Loads more to write but I'm boring myself now.

BD

Agreed with you on every point... which leaves us with the following: an Obama-ordered strike this weekend would be SUCH a bad move. Please please please at least wait for an incontravertible inspector report. And even then, only with more international support. And even then, consider why we should be messing with those who are seeming friends and foes today who will eventually claim that our intervention was bogus and baseless.
Manfred

What happened...how did we let this happen...and how did we get so far off track? And I'm not just talking about Syria, I'm talking about our ability to resolve the problems, like Syria, that keep cropping up. Our world, as I'm sure you are all aware, is highly interdependant and has been for a long time; especially right before The Great War...the war to end all wars. We were a world based on libralism and constutionalist and we developed many standards, such electrical, communucations, etc., at that time so we could all work together...become better...together. I'm not saying it was perfect by any streatch of the imagination, but we never found out how good it could be, because a handfull of people screwed it all up...WW1 started...by pride and lack of humility. World War 1 changed the worlds faith and began a world of totalitarinism. Low and behold what followed: Russia 1917, Italy 1922, Germany 1933, Spain 1936. Which leaves us in the bloody mess we are in today: Just right another year in the history books and throw more bodies to hold up the pillars that have a rotting foundation. How do we fix this....well I don't know, but we need to figure this one out pretty quick, because the way we are trying to solve it now is clearly not working. So I say go for it, attack, why not, its not like its going to change anything if we don't. "A good plan violently executed today, is better than a perfect plan acted on next week." Patton WW2. This is a sad but true statement, but its what we are left with until we figure this out.

Now, please nevermind me as I step back into characture by saying, "Nuke 'em frim orbit! It's the only way to be sure!"

Hello all, my opinion, is a lot like me,simple. We are not the worlds police force, The president is not a police chief, and soldiers are not trained to determine probable cause and reasonable suspicion.

NATO has plenty of spooks and spies that know where all the Nasty Stuff is, or at least most of it. We, and our civilized allies, should conduct air strikes until the chemicals and biological agents are all destroyed. The natives will resume fighting, always have, always will, but with sticks and stones.

Lastly, but certainly not lastly, we need to remove the USA from the Blue Helmet Brigade. We are in serious debt, and our fearless leaders new health care plan is going to bankrupt us. If any of you are in a job where you make personell decisions and manage a large budget, you probably know what I am referring to. Why the USA bankrolls this useless entity, and by the Charter, a Americain can not be the director of the UN.

So, give us dogfighters a bunch of drones and IPads. Mark the maps so the bunkers look like little hangers, we will clean it up with teams of six.

Well said Davy. The sad truth is its not cool to be a Christian. If the latest, formerly oppressed, discriminated group were being killed, the hippies and celeberties would be marching, it would be the headlines of all the news rags, the Big Three would have breaking news! Every 15 minutes, just like when some pretty woman is on trial for killing some cute man or kid.

We are going to civilize ourselfs out of exisiance. I yearn for the Greatest Generations morales, guts, and determination.

www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-30/kerry-...lear-compelling.html

If america attacks Syria, WWIII will break out, period.

zuperman wrote: www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-30/kerry-...lear-compelling.html

Yeah but is evidence that a chemical attack happened (which is what he cites) the same as evidence that Assad did it? I'm by no means a peaceful beatnik; I just don't want another round of America-Intervenes turning into Those-Bastard-Americans. It would give those America-Haters (especially the ones living inside the U.S.) all the more ammunition against conservatives in the U.S. I'm really sick of that B.S. It sets us up for stupidity like mosques at Ground Zero.
Manfred

So now the president kicks the can down to congress. Another 9 days of indecision on a fiasco we shouldn't get involved in. MANFRED is correct. Dont give the American haters more ammunition. It's sad but we do not have the stomach as a united people like we did in ww2. We have no leadership and America is not united any longer and that includes the politicians. We have the best military, the best soldiers and the best training, we could whip anyone, anywhere if we were a united country and had the proper leadership.

As if we have the need or the money to be involved in more middle eastern stupidity.

America just needs to stop baby sitting the rest of the world. Seems like every time some war breaks out in the world the america government is like oh look a chance to play the nation baby sitter super hero that makes things worse. I think we have more important things to do as a nation. That would be to deal with our own problems not the problems of some other countries complicated war where both sides are more then likely to be at fault for war crimes.

One thing for sure I don't want America to attack syria because the way I see it is that if we attack we will get Iran, Syria, Russia, and China pissed at us. They may or may not take us to war but I don't think the risk of going to war again is worth it. War never is worth it.

America should spend more time getting our Nations Debt payed off and focussing on finding cures for Cancer and other major disease's. What is going on is that no one is really trying to find a cure for it but are trying to make treatments for it to sell to people with cancer and other disease. The cost for all these treatments rise in the billions and people keep dyeing from them all over the world causing the government to lose tax money from its citizens. Why not put a deal out there where the first person to come up with a cure for cancer gets payed 5 - 10 billion dollars. That is cheaper than the yearly cost to treat people for it.

The cancer idea is from that guy on the O Riley factor. Not my idea but I agree with him on it.

Anyway we should solve out nations problems and not got screwing around with every one else's business. I would also rather be blown up by a bomb than to have the government listening to every one of my calls reading all my text, emails, and just about anything I do with social media. I just had to toss that out there.

Skydavis1 wrote: America just needs to stop baby sitting the rest of the world. Seems like every time some war breaks out in the world the america government is like oh look a chance to play the nation baby sitter super hero that makes things worse. I think we have more important things to do as a nation. That would be to deal with our own problems not the problems of some other countries complicated war where both sides are more then likely to be at fault for war crimes.

One thing for sure I don't want America to attack syria because the way I see it is that if we attack we will get Iran, Syria, Russia, and China pissed at us. They may or may not take us to war but I don't think the risk of going to war again is worth it. War never is worth it.

America should spend more time getting our Nations Debt payed off and focussing on finding cures for Cancer and other major disease's. What is going on is that no one is really trying to find a cure for it but are trying to make treatments for it to sell to people with cancer and other disease. The cost for all these treatments rise in the billions and people keep dyeing from them all over the world causing the government to lose tax money from its citizens. Why not put a deal out there where the first person to come up with a cure for cancer gets payed 5 - 10 billion dollars. That is cheaper than the yearly cost to treat people for it.

The cancer idea is from that guy on the O Riley factor. Not my idea but I agree with him on it.

Anyway we should solve out nations problems and not got screwing around with every one else's business. I would also rather be blown up by a bomb than to have the government listening to every one of my calls reading all my text, emails, and just about anything I do with social media. I just had to toss that out there.

DAVY says, whew, this guy sounds like me!

Davy Crockett wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote: America just needs to stop baby sitting the rest of the world. Seems like every time some war breaks out in the world the america government is like oh look a chance to play the nation baby sitter super hero that makes things worse. I think we have more important things to do as a nation. That would be to deal with our own problems not the problems of some other countries complicated war where both sides are more then likely to be at fault for war crimes.

One thing for sure I don't want America to attack syria because the way I see it is that if we attack we will get Iran, Syria, Russia, and China pissed at us. They may or may not take us to war but I don't think the risk of going to war again is worth it. War never is worth it.

America should spend more time getting our Nations Debt payed off and focussing on finding cures for Cancer and other major disease's. What is going on is that no one is really trying to find a cure for it but are trying to make treatments for it to sell to people with cancer and other disease. The cost for all these treatments rise in the billions and people keep dyeing from them all over the world causing the government to lose tax money from its citizens. Why not put a deal out there where the first person to come up with a cure for cancer gets payed 5 - 10 billion dollars. That is cheaper than the yearly cost to treat people for it.

The cancer idea is from that guy on the O Riley factor. Not my idea but I agree with him on it.

Anyway we should solve out nations problems and not got screwing around with every one else's business. I would also rather be blown up by a bomb than to have the government listening to every one of my calls reading all my text, emails, and just about anything I do with social media. I just had to toss that out there.

DAVY says, whew, this guy sounds like me!

I dont know if you want me to sound like you lol. I was once told by a teacher that if I ran for president and won sometime in the future of my life that I would run the country into the ground lol.