The U.S. government is in the proccess of illegallizing gun ownership for american citizans. Right now they have limited magazines to ten rounds or less, and have made military style weapons illegal.

This is a violation of the 2nd Admendment of the American Constitution!
The government's motive to do such acts: too many murders involving firearms.

What the government ain't considering is that Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Only a few short deacades ago, we could buy M16s exactly like what the military was using. Nowadays, if you bought some thing like that, the law would come to your house, arrest you, then haul your a$$ to jail. All that for buying a GUN?!?!Only a psyco would use a firearms to do real intended evil.

If you are responsible, respectfull, and safe with firearms, you should be allowed to own any type of gun.
As we know, criminals have ways of getting illegal items on the Black Market. So if things keep going the way they are going we, everyday good citazans, will have no ways to protect ourselves from the real threat:
Criminals Themselvs.



Please post HERE if you have any comments or questions on this post.
This is proporty of Dwight Owston from Dogfight.

Not exactly correct. I do agree that there is a mad push to disarm the American people. But, some of that is not correct. The National Firearms Act of 1934 outlawed fully automatic weapons, except for those that were able to get the difficult to obtain liscense to own one. So, military style M16's have never been available to the general public, nor AK's nor a lot of other guns. Owning one, or modifying one to have the same capabilities will result in a trip to prison.

As far as whether the 2nd amendment is being violated... Every day by almost every cop in America. "... Keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". Arms. Not single shot arms. Not non-lethal arms. Not semi auto arms. Simply arms. And, to create a law that limits one ability to "bear arms" is presicley what the 2nd amendment said you cannot do. So yea, we have sold ourselves out in that regard, and if you look at the crime rates since 1934, you will see how incredibly effective that all of these laws have been in preventing us from killing and harming each other. Not very...

Granted, love, money, and drugs are the main reasons for murder. Drugs have only become as mainstream as they currently are in the last century, notwithstanding the fact that opium and cocaine were pretty common in medicines going way back... Of course, the "war on drugs" has been incredibly successful... Or not... Anyway, my point is is that drugs have given us an extra reason to kill each other, thereby spurring up our murder rate also. Not to admit that would be dishonest.

Agreed with Jacklpe. I'm a Life Member of the National Rifle Association, and a gun rights advocate. But you've got to get your facts straight, otherwise the whole position of gun rights gets written off as fringe and deceptive.

But that's just me.

Manfred

I am just mad the goverment got the gun scare going on so now ammo cost $100 just to get a pack of 500 round 22 shot.
Anyway it should start to calm down so I can buy some ammo of any kind and not have to pay like I was buying illegal drugs.

Speaking of drugs. The only reason why the mary jane is illegal is because it can be sold at the farmers market with no tax. The government wants to get the tax off it because it would be a big business but they cant tax it like beer or alcohol products. I am not for drugs or anything like that but you know if the government had there own mary jane crop and sold it at government weed sails they could get a lot closer to paying our countries debt lol.

You watch the border patrol show and they nab a guy pull out a packet the size of a sandwich bag and say there is a couple thousand dollars worth of drugs in it. A one acer patch of that stuff would be good income for a year if it us as pricy as they make it sound like.

Skydavis1 wrote: I am just mad the goverment got the gun scare going on so now ammo cost $100 just to get a pack of 500 round 22 shot.
Anyway it should start to calm down so I can buy some ammo of any kind and not have to pay like I was buying illegal drugs.

Speaking of drugs. The only reason why the mary jane is illegal is because it can be sold at the farmers market with no tax. The government wants to get the tax off it because it would be a big business but they cant tax it like beer or alcohol products. I am not for drugs or anything like that but you know if the government had there own mary jane crop and sold it at government weed sails they could get a lot closer to paying our countries debt lol.

You watch the border patrol show and they nab a guy pull out a packet the size of a sandwich bag and say there is a couple thousand dollars worth of drugs in it. A one acer patch of that stuff would be good income for a year if it us as pricy as they make it sound like.

The government got the gun scare going??? Wow, hadn't realized the government set prices for ammunition at what it is now. Boy, that must be tough sitting on the board at Winchester, and having to take orders from the federal government about where to set the prices for my product.

Tell me, which agency is responsible for determining ammo prices anyways?

Big Tex wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote: I am just mad the goverment got the gun scare going on so now ammo cost $100 just to get a pack of 500 round 22 shot.
Anyway it should start to calm down so I can buy some ammo of any kind and not have to pay like I was buying illegal drugs.

Speaking of drugs. The only reason why the mary jane is illegal is because it can be sold at the farmers market with no tax. The government wants to get the tax off it because it would be a big business but they cant tax it like beer or alcohol products. I am not for drugs or anything like that but you know if the government had there own mary jane crop and sold it at government weed sails they could get a lot closer to paying our countries debt lol.

You watch the border patrol show and they nab a guy pull out a packet the size of a sandwich bag and say there is a couple thousand dollars worth of drugs in it. A one acer patch of that stuff would be good income for a year if it us as pricy as they make it sound like.

The government got the gun scare going??? Wow, hadn't realized the government set prices for ammunition at what it is now. Boy, that must be tough sitting on the board at Winchester, and having to take orders from the federal government about where to set the prices for my product.

Tell me, which agency is responsible for determining ammo prices anyways?

In a direct way: True

In an indirect way: False

What happens when the chairman of the Fed says this or that about interest rates? The same applies when a president starts talking gun control. Supply and demand take over. But very true... The government does not decide ammo pricing, beyond applicable taxes.

In Australia Guns have been banned my whole life.

Jacklpe wrote:

Big Tex wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote: I am just mad the goverment got the gun scare going on so now ammo cost $100 just to get a pack of 500 round 22 shot.
Anyway it should start to calm down so I can buy some ammo of any kind and not have to pay like I was buying illegal drugs.

Speaking of drugs. The only reason why the mary jane is illegal is because it can be sold at the farmers market with no tax. The government wants to get the tax off it because it would be a big business but they cant tax it like beer or alcohol products. I am not for drugs or anything like that but you know if the government had there own mary jane crop and sold it at government weed sails they could get a lot closer to paying our countries debt lol.

You watch the border patrol show and they nab a guy pull out a packet the size of a sandwich bag and say there is a couple thousand dollars worth of drugs in it. A one acer patch of that stuff would be good income for a year if it us as pricy as they make it sound like.

The government got the gun scare going??? Wow, hadn't realized the government set prices for ammunition at what it is now. Boy, that must be tough sitting on the board at Winchester, and having to take orders from the federal government about where to set the prices for my product.

Tell me, which agency is responsible for determining ammo prices anyways?

In a direct way: True

In an indirect way: False

What happens when the chairman of the Fed says this or that about interest rates? The same applies when a president starts talking gun control. Supply and demand take over. But very true... The government does not decide ammo pricing, beyond applicable taxes.

I always found the logic of this argument ironic. If electing Dems drives the masses to fear "government" takeover, why does the ammo and gun industry NOT support Dems 100% in every election, as it helps drive their profits sky high? Sales are at record levels thanks to the current administration. If I owned shares of Winchester, I'd vote for the Dem candidate all the time!

Digby wrote: In Australia Guns have been banned my whole life.

Which is a choice you guys made... I won't speak to the effectiveness, nor the right or wrong of doing that in your country. It's not my place. But, in the US, all attempts to regulate have been dismal failures. Chicago currently has the highest murder rate in the US, yet they also have the toughest gun laws.

Big Tex wrote:

Jacklpe wrote:

Big Tex wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote: I am just mad the goverment got the gun scare going on so now ammo cost $100 just to get a pack of 500 round 22 shot.
Anyway it should start to calm down so I can buy some ammo of any kind and not have to pay like I was buying illegal drugs.

Speaking of drugs. The only reason why the mary jane is illegal is because it can be sold at the farmers market with no tax. The government wants to get the tax off it because it would be a big business but they cant tax it like beer or alcohol products. I am not for drugs or anything like that but you know if the government had there own mary jane crop and sold it at government weed sails they could get a lot closer to paying our countries debt lol.

You watch the border patrol show and they nab a guy pull out a packet the size of a sandwich bag and say there is a couple thousand dollars worth of drugs in it. A one acer patch of that stuff would be good income for a year if it us as pricy as they make it sound like.

The government got the gun scare going??? Wow, hadn't realized the government set prices for ammunition at what it is now. Boy, that must be tough sitting on the board at Winchester, and having to take orders from the federal government about where to set the prices for my product.

Tell me, which agency is responsible for determining ammo prices anyways?

In a direct way: True

In an indirect way: False

What happens when the chairman of the Fed says this or that about interest rates? The same applies when a president starts talking gun control. Supply and demand take over. But very true... The government does not decide ammo pricing, beyond applicable taxes.

I always found the logic of this argument ironic. If electing Dems drives the masses to fear "government" takeover, why does the ammo and gun industry NOT support Dems 100% in every election, as it helps drive their profits sky high? Sales are at record levels thanks to the current administration. If I owned shares of Winchester, I'd vote for the Dem candidate all the time!

And they probably do... But like Digby just showed us, complete bans can and do happen. So, if I owned shares, I would overlook the short term profit in favor of the long term stability.

Jacklpe wrote:

Digby wrote: In Australia Guns have been banned my whole life.

Which is a choice you guys made... I won't speak to the effectiveness, nor the right or wrong of doing that in your country. It's not my place. But, in the US, all attempts to regulate have been dismal failures. Chicago currently has the highest murder rate in the US, yet they also have the toughest gun laws.

Hmm I know but because you guys were introduced to it and now it's being taken away its sad for me, I have never held a gun (Well I am only 12 so thats understandable) so I don't really understand the problem.

Really Chicago?? Sheldon Lee Cooper said that Passadina had a high rate of crime (excuse me if that's a mistake cause I don't know how o spell it).

Digby wrote:

Jacklpe wrote:

Digby wrote: In Australia Guns have been banned my whole life.

Which is a choice you guys made... I won't speak to the effectiveness, nor the right or wrong of doing that in your country. It's not my place. But, in the US, all attempts to regulate have been dismal failures. Chicago currently has the highest murder rate in the US, yet they also have the toughest gun laws.

Hmm I know but because you guys were introduced to it and now it's being taken away its sad for me, I have never held a gun (Well I am only 12 so thats understandable) so I don't really understand the problem.

Really Chicago?? Sheldon Lee Cooper said that Passadina had a high rate of crime (excuse me if that's a mistake cause I don't know how o spell it).

I'm not as worried as a lot of people are about it. A meaningful attempt to ban in the US would start a civil war. Now if only they can brainwash the next generation....

The two methods that are actively being used to undermine the second amendment are much more effective than an outright ban. As I stated, convince the next generation that only a fringe element of society owns firearms. Second, ask people to keep making compromises in the name of safety, and support your argument with falsehoods that sound reasonable and authoritative.

How do you move a mountain? One rock at a time. That's the real danger to the second amendment. A blanket ban would simply start a very big war.

I'm a hunter and a firearms entusiest, that's why i,m opposed to gun control acts.




BTW, speaking of guns do you like this one:

Can ya'll imagine having to pay for the 50cal rounds blasting out of our airborne machine guns?
Thank goodness WW1 is government subsidized! Free ammo woohoo!
(For those of you that know that nothing is free, please note the tongue in cheek.)

Digby wrote: In Australia Guns have been banned my whole life.

not true Digby, you just need a license and we are limited in what you can own (must have a reason for each firearm, e.g. cant have 30 for foxes, but a few doffernt calibres for different cpnditions could be justified). you can join a local rifle or pistole club if you are 13 in Victoria and have your parents approval, not sure bout other states.

Hi hammer_tool! nice to see ya.

D.O. wrote: I'm a hunter and a firearms entusiest, that's why i,m opposed to gun control acts.




BTW, speaking of guns do you like this one:

what do you hunt

Here's the australian story. Enjoy.....

Big Tex wrote:

Skydavis1 wrote: I am just mad the goverment got the gun scare going on so now ammo cost $100 just to get a pack of 500 round 22 shot.
Anyway it should start to calm down so I can buy some ammo of any kind and not have to pay like I was buying illegal drugs.

Speaking of drugs. The only reason why the mary jane is illegal is because it can be sold at the farmers market with no tax. The government wants to get the tax off it because it would be a big business but they cant tax it like beer or alcohol products. I am not for drugs or anything like that but you know if the government had there own mary jane crop and sold it at government weed sails they could get a lot closer to paying our countries debt lol.

You watch the border patrol show and they nab a guy pull out a packet the size of a sandwich bag and say there is a couple thousand dollars worth of drugs in it. A one acer patch of that stuff would be good income for a year if it us as pricy as they make it sound like.

The government got the gun scare going??? Wow, hadn't realized the government set prices for ammunition at what it is now. Boy, that must be tough sitting on the board at Winchester, and having to take orders from the federal government about where to set the prices for my product.

Tell me, which agency is responsible for determining ammo prices anyways?

The government did get the gun scare going it appears. Supply and demand raised the prices because every one was freaking out thinking the feds where going to show up and take there guns away. Then those who where not freaked about the feds went crazy to buy up all the guns and ammo they felt they needed to supply there hunting habits.

The Government trying to regulate guns or implement gun control after the new town shooting caused the Gun Scare or should I say Gun Control scare.

While it may be true that some fringe groups are actually conspiring to ban firearms, the encroachment on the 2nd ammendment moves foreward on the mean of public opinion. Lots of money and effort is spent trying to influence public opinion and the parties who are most "fired up" about it will try to exploit any event in an attempt to sway things in their direction.

There is a tenuous balance which is always being challenged in courts. Here in the USA, with our legal system that will always be the case. There will always be those who believe the laws are too strict and those who believe the laws are too lax.

Where do you draw the line?

What is acceptable for the general population to have?:

-Handguns?
-Concealed Firearms?
-Open Carry Firearms?
-Automatic Firearms?
-Artiliary?
-Explosives?
-Assault rifles?
-Hunting Rifles?
-Hunting Shotguns?
-Assault Shotguns?
-Large Calibur Rifles?
-Silencers?
-Fragmenting Ammunition?
-Armour Piercing Ammunition?
-Tracer Ammunition?
-Non Lethal Ammunition
-Airplanes with 50 cal Machine guns?

-Does it matter how, where or when someone uses, stores, sells any weapons?

-Is it okay to discharge firearms in your own back yard? What if you live next to a school? A gas station? A Court House?


"The right to bear arms shall not be infringed."

Some people just want to say that this single sentence says it all. But only the most obtuse freedom advocate would demand complete lack of restriction. It could be difficult to find two people who would give the same answers to all of these questions. Everything I listed has been, and will again, be considered by law.

Someone who is a 4th generation hunter and lives in rural Wyoming is going to have a very different background and experience about firearms than someone who grew up in a bad neighborhood in Detroit. They are both Americans and have the same right to be represented. Many careers are made representing either side of this issue. Big $$$. One big trouble is that people who feel strongly about the issues will often vilify those with an opposing position. When you vilify the opposition it can seem acceptable to use "dirty tricks" to try to influence things your way. Thats where things go bad.



BTW: I own several guns and have taught my kids to shoot, but I also don't really want to see citizens openly carrying, i'd rather they had training and went concealed if they want to carry. - But thats just my opinion. I neither have the interest nor the resources to legally represent my position.

BTW:

My 10 year old son got a ride home in a police car back around the fourth of July. He was toting a very realistic replica flintlock pistol at the home town celebration. It would have been legal here if it had bright orange paint on the muzzle.

Mcfate not just anyone can go walk down the street with a concealed weapon. In my state they have to apply for the permit, get the background checks, And Take many classes. In your huge list you said "What is acceptable for the general population to have?"

I can't just walk on into my local pawn shop and buy automatic weapons, artillery, c4, grenades, tracers (which are illegal in some states),

Watch the mythbusters they are trained professionals and whenever they use that stuff it isn't right next to the day care or the nearest shell station or phantom fireworks shop. They have to go to a bomb range or a test site in the middle of no where. I guarantee you they had to get some government clearances before they could lay eyes on the stuff they use.

Where on earth is it legal to shoot next to a school? Most cities have ordinances about discharging firearms in city limits.

I own multiple guns, go hunting a lot on public hunting areas. I don't get much but hunting teaches you to respect nature and respect firearms. I know what a firearm can do and i know the proper ways to use it:

Hunting
Self defense
Target practice





And that's a fact

Yea Dixi, that's my point. There are restrictions that have been determined to be reasonable. The rub is where the "lines" are drawn.

I don't think the lines change according to the will of some fringe groups. Nor do I think any one party or administration can succeed in completely revoking the second amendment.

Well written McFate. Keep and bear says nothing about "use", as in discharging near a school etc. Keep that in mind.

I know this may sound kind of radical to some but I believe all homes should be armed, i believe folks ought to be armed. I believe that everyone starting at a young age should learn about firearms and learn to respect them and to respect people.

I was in a tenants home doing some work. Two large ladies were sitting on the couch with children sitting on their laps, they were playing a car chase game of some type, the language was absolutely horrible, cops and citizens being blown away in this game which was realistic. What chance do these kids have in learning respect for firearms and people. ABSOLUTELY NONE.

Guns are not a problem, people like the above are the problem.