What counts as the commonly hated "spawn killing"? Is it before you turn on your engine? Is it before your plane starts moving forward? Is it before your plane lifts off? Or is it before your plane reaches full speed that it can, with bomb only top speed it can reach while carrying the bomb? This would be very helpful, considering that "spawn killing" is hated by most players in this game, but it is ill defined. Thank you for any responses! P.S. I hate "spawn killing".

Biplane Fighter wrote: What counts as the commonly hated "spawn killing"? Is it before you turn on your engine? Is it before your plane starts moving forward? Is it before your plane lifts off? Or is it before your plane reaches full speed that it can, with bomb only top speed it can reach while carrying the bomb? This would be very helpful, considering that "spawn killing" is hated by most players in this game, but it is ill defined. Thank you for any responses! P.S. I hate "spawn killing".

Spawn killing/tank spawn killing in any way, shape or form is prohibited. (Unless you are a moraf).....←then its legal

Biplane Fighter wrote: What counts as the commonly hated "spawn killing"? Is it before you turn on your engine? Is it before your plane starts moving forward? Is it before your plane lifts off? Or is it before your plane reaches full speed that it can, with bomb only top speed it can reach while carrying the bomb? This would be very helpful, considering that "spawn killing" is hated by most players in this game, but it is ill defined. Thank you for any responses! P.S. I hate "spawn killing".

To me it counts as a moron who is afraid of you in the air so they down you the minute you spawn. Said person will usually quit the minute you say oh really ok..... Bsck in the day when,we all did it to eachother it was accepted and fun as hell. You really didn't want to get shot down at the wrong time. But everyone was cool with it and gave as good as they got. Sometimes u did it sometimes you didn't. No fighting over it. Was a better time. Guys that spawnkilled you then and could also kill you while flying it was more of good God dont let this Guy in the air...was more of a respect thing not a cowardly act. Now u have guys that complain and hate it on forum yet do it in,game when,tjey think no one is watching.....YOU KNOW WHO U R. Lol

dogss wrote:

Biplane Fighter wrote: What counts as the commonly hated "spawn killing"? Is it before you turn on your engine? Is it before your plane starts moving forward? Is it before your plane lifts off? Or is it before your plane reaches full speed that it can, with bomb only top speed it can reach while carrying the bomb? This would be very helpful, considering that "spawn killing" is hated by most players in this game, but it is ill defined. Thank you for any responses! P.S. I hate "spawn killing".

To me it counts as a moron who is afraid of you in the air so they down you the minute you spawn. Said person will usually quit the minute you say oh really ok..... Bsck in the day when,we all did it to eachother it was accepted and fun as hell. You really didn't want to get shot down at the wrong time. But everyone was cool with it and gave as good as they got. Sometimes u did it sometimes you didn't. No fighting over it. Was a better time. Guys that spawnkilled you then and could also kill you while flying it was more of good God dont let this Guy in the air...was more of a respect thing not a cowardly act. Now u have guys that complain and hate it on forum yet do it in,game when,tjey think no one is watching.....YOU KNOW WHO U R. Lol

Back in those days I did both SK and tsk. Was kind of fun lol......things change I guess lol..(not very good at spawn killing though back then )

General jackson wrote:

dogss wrote:

Biplane Fighter wrote: What counts as the commonly hated "spawn killing"? Is it before you turn on your engine? Is it before your plane starts moving forward? Is it before your plane lifts off? Or is it before your plane reaches full speed that it can, with bomb only top speed it can reach while carrying the bomb? This would be very helpful, considering that "spawn killing" is hated by most players in this game, but it is ill defined. Thank you for any responses! P.S. I hate "spawn killing".

To me it counts as a moron who is afraid of you in the air so they down you the minute you spawn. Said person will usually quit the minute you say oh really ok..... Bsck in the day when,we all did it to eachother it was accepted and fun as hell. You really didn't want to get shot down at the wrong time. But everyone was cool with it and gave as good as they got. Sometimes u did it sometimes you didn't. No fighting over it. Was a better time. Guys that spawnkilled you then and could also kill you while flying it was more of good God dont let this Guy in the air...was more of a respect thing not a cowardly act. Now u have guys that complain and hate it on forum yet do it in,game when,tjey think no one is watching.....YOU KNOW WHO U R. Lol

Back in those days I did both SK and tsk. Was kind of fun lol......things change I guess lol..(not very good at spawn killing though back then )

I remember games with two tanks at a base competing for kills lol. Vela was the Jedi master. I used to scream at him

dogss wrote:

General jackson wrote:

dogss wrote:

Biplane Fighter wrote: What counts as the commonly hated "spawn killing"? Is it before you turn on your engine? Is it before your plane starts moving forward? Is it before your plane lifts off? Or is it before your plane reaches full speed that it can, with bomb only top speed it can reach while carrying the bomb? This would be very helpful, considering that "spawn killing" is hated by most players in this game, but it is ill defined. Thank you for any responses! P.S. I hate "spawn killing".

To me it counts as a moron who is afraid of you in the air so they down you the minute you spawn. Said person will usually quit the minute you say oh really ok..... Bsck in the day when,we all did it to eachother it was accepted and fun as hell. You really didn't want to get shot down at the wrong time. But everyone was cool with it and gave as good as they got. Sometimes u did it sometimes you didn't. No fighting over it. Was a better time. Guys that spawnkilled you then and could also kill you while flying it was more of good God dont let this Guy in the air...was more of a respect thing not a cowardly act. Now u have guys that complain and hate it on forum yet do it in,game when,tjey think no one is watching.....YOU KNOW WHO U R. Lol

Back in those days I did both SK and tsk. Was kind of fun lol......things change I guess lol..(not very good at spawn killing though back then )

I remember games with two tanks at a base competing for kills lol. Vela was the Jedi master. I used to scream at him

Lolol...I used to get spawnkled often by bomber until I knew how to take off...also used to get spwnkilled by tank as soon as I entered a game....ahhhh memories lol

Oh Jack,

I'm a MORAF and I totally DISLIKE Spawnkilling in its all its forms.

BIPlane,

We have the rules over in Falcon Spruz which states this. Its anytime before the plane is in the air. We have an internal rule of waiting for 3-5 seconds after take off. I hope this helps. If you have any questions please PM me. All Falcons are on the same page on this one.

Those days back then were terrible. I pray we never EVER go back to those days. Its no fun NEVER. I never understood how it was fun.

The rule is different for everyone, and some sadly dont have a rule. For me, it is 15 seconds after takeoff, they drop their bomb, or they start firing. This proves that either they are ignoring me, or they are now a threat

Legalise it..............(Spawnkilling)

I think Zuperman has already addressed this. I say make the immunity for 3-5 seconds for ALL planes immeditately from the time of spawning. That was originally going to be the case until some pilots complained about that and then it was only for certain ranks. This will take care of both spawnkilling AND the "so-called false accusations". I personally don't see much "false accusations".

Happens all the time Swop.... Happened to me just recently....Still had my bomb headin in....After I dropped I stopped shooting..... Heh Heh I was spawnkilling on the way in.....Imagine that.... I got 3 hangars out of the deal..... If I'm going to be accused of it I may as well start doing it....

well i for one NEVER spawnkill enless nobodys looking and i never ever never tank spawnkill except that one time,,,or maybe two... but i was lobbing then in from over the hill But as for whats right and wrong we have beat this horse to death cooked his ass up and beat him some more. frankly im tired of horse... If and When im spawnkilled over an over i take action to stop it then share it with the one doing it. If they get mad and leave they can post photos here and cry and piss and carry on about it on the black list thread and ill be happy to tell them why they got a spanking or we can say fares fare and smile and wave hi next time we meet and just let it go with that.

all I can say is "Obstain even from the appearance of evil". Don't put yourself even at a point of being accused of it and you won't be accussed.

Dr. Dave. I give a big hearty "yes" to this response.

The continual discussion on this subject and forum drama reminds me of all of the drama on a certain show. so here goes:

doughens wrote: all I can say is "Obstain even from the appearance of evil". Don't put yourself even at a point of being accused of it and you won't be accussed.

Im glad Jesus never ABSTAINED from an appearance of evil. He took it down head on. Spent most of his time here on earth casting out demons and socializing with the very worst of society. Where there was people sinning there was Jesus hanging with them and forgiving them. God truly did walk the earth. I try and follow that and fail miserably but he already knows that. We ALL fall short of the glory of God. Thank God for Jesus

or how about this show?

doughens wrote: all I can say is "Obstain even from the appearance of evil". Don't put yourself even at a point of being accused of it and you won't be accussed.

there in is the problem alot of folks think if they get shoot up by in coming bombers they MUST be spawn killing and start making noise about it. It happens almost every game now and yet these same people will come in on a bombing run shooting... You'd be a fool not to because the guys coming off that runway,,,like me are going to kill you giving the chance so you'd better be firing or your not gonna be bombing... That being said... after you drop, go get another one dont hang around waiting for the easy kill. AND!!! If someone has just bombed your base and you come up behind them and start shooting then your asking no BEGGING them to turn around and do you in... let them go and find something else to shoot at. or follow them and bomb their base as they land ether way

...but He never condoned evil and just because we all do evil doesn't mean we should pursue it or condone it. He hanged out with the sinners but He never condoned the actions.

Doggs I agree with you but with this little "addition". Thank you for the reiminder.

doughens wrote: ...but He never condoned evil and just because we all do evil doesn't mean we should pursue it or condone it. He hanged out with the sinners but He never condoned the actions.

Doggs I agree with you but with this little "addition". Thank you for the reiminder.

Yes he never did condone their actions but he accepted it as their faults in this world. Even peter up until the end was cutting off other guys ears and needed constant reinforcement by showing him what to do not telling him what to do. Nothing is greater to God then a sinner who returns to him. Saul, who became Paul speaks volumes on this subject. Anyhow I don't think spawnkilling is relevant here and I really dont think its evil. I'm sure you would agree with me Jesus had bigger fish to fry. This would have been a non issue.

Doggs, I totally appreciate you. I'm so VERY proud of you and I don't want my responses to distract from what you have said.

You are SOOOOO right. He did a combination of both. He never accepted the actions but accepted the person."Saul Saul why are you persecuting me?" Sounds like He didn't "accept it". He accepted Saul/Paul because he repented and turned away from what he did.

"Nothing is greater to God then a sinner who returns to him. Saul, who became Paul speaks volumes on this subject."

I wholeheartedly agree.

Doggs, I totally appreciate this. Doggs. I really liked your quote I mentioned above. I don't want you to think that I'm being difficult. I totally appreciate your response here.

P.S. I agree on the "non-issue". I think we should do our best to "do the right thing". Will we always "do the right thing"? absolutely not. "Man looks at the outward appearance but He looks at the heart."

I think you would agree with that.

doughens wrote: Doggs, I totally appreciate you. I'm so VERY proud of you and I don't want my responses to distract from what you have said.

You are SOOOOO right. He did a combination of both. He never accepted the actions but accepted the person."Saul Saul why are you persecuting me?" Sounds like He didn't "accept it". He accepted Saul/Paul because he repented and turned away from what he did.

"Nothing is greater to God then a sinner who returns to him. Saul, who became Paul speaks volumes on this subject."

I wholeheartedly agree.

Doggs, I totally appreciate this. Doggs. I really liked your quote I mentioned above. I don't want you to think that I'm being difficult. I totally appreciate your response here.

P.S. I agree on the "non-issue". I think we should do our best to "do the right thing". Will we always "do the right thing"? absolutely not. "Man looks at the outward appearance but He looks at the heart."

I think you would agree with that.

Absolutely agree with that. Keep on keeping on swop.

thanks good buddy. I'm sooooo proud you have come "full circle".

I will say He never accepts the evil but will accept a person who repents. For one to repent one must know they do evil. That revelation given by us to others of evil must never be done to reject the person.

So its a combination of both of us:

He did a combination of both.

BTW, when I see you in the skies. Say hi.

BBTW, I think I made a new friend in Doggs.

I wanted to dredge up this up again because it came up in-game.

This is totally one man(fred)'s opinion. But I think many others share it too. Certainly it was the opinion I held as a moderator, and I think I've been very consistent, even now, sans-mod.

Never mind spawnkilling from a tank at close range. That is *against* the rules, and doing it repeatedly can get you banned. That's not what I'm addressing.

This is about shooting from a plane. Many, including I, have said in the past that it's unacceptable to spawnkill from a plane in Dogfight missions, because it has no strategic reason, and is taking advantage of an easier kill, pure and simple. So what are the situations where there IS strategic consideration?

Again, all my opinion:
1) Bomb The Base, final approach to airport hangars, WITH A BOMB. If you are heading straight in, it's either kill or get killed, and BOMBING HANGARS is the mission. IMO, you're not helping your team if you don't shoot! And it doesn't do any good to shoot anywhere else but right in front of the spawn point. Enemies can hold their brakes (as I do, until I get a clearing), or take the risk of releasing brakes (as I do too). With props revving, they have the option to dodge or just shoot straight. As the spawning plane I've taken out a LOT of enemies this way; when I'm the one approaching with a bomb, I have no problem coming in with guns blazing.

Note that I said WITH A BOMB. Last night in a BTB game, someone was blazing guns at me on a straight-in approach to my airport, with no bomb, and with no teammates in sight. THAT is not sporting, because it had no reason other than an attempt at an easy kill.

2) Bomb The Carrier, same deal. There's a twist in Carrier, in that the carrier might be moving sideways or away from your approach, instead of moving toward you. For me, lots depends on the game situation, mostly if it's lopsided teams. But if teams are even or close, and the enemy is holding their own, I will shoot if coming straight in, or if I'm approaching from the side. I tend not to shoot if approaching from behind, unless it's a very high rank. The situation came up from the side last night, and the player taking off revved, popped up, turned hard toward me, and I dropped him with a stream of bullets, and 4 seconds later I dropped my bomb (on his respawn). He was pissed, and I understand, but that's been done to me dozens of times - while I feel frustrated when that happens to me, I don't fault the shooter/bomber.

3) Defend The Zepp, same deal. When the zepp is on the final approach to the base, the enemy is taking off straight at it, and straight at you if you are defending close to the zepp. Darn yeah this is one where if you don't shoot them, they will shoot you, and/or the zepp. I've spawned into the Kill Zepp side many times, into a fire fight at the airport. I hold brakes and wait for an opportunity to take off, and if I mis-time it, I am dead, no argument. Respawn, try again. This is not like BTB if a bunch of enemies linger too long and camp around the airport! In the final throes of Kill Zepp, the enemies are *supposed* to be there! I shoot the planes that are flying as a top priority, because they are already shooting the zepp. As a second priority, if I am pointed at the base after a turn, I *will* fire on someone who is respawning, so they (if they are smart) will make the decision to hold brakes until I turn away. This goes directly toward the goal of the game, in this case, Defending Zepp.

I rarely go anywhere near the enemy airport in Capture Carrier, and disagree with those who hover there. The goal is to move the bars, and these players are not helping -- IMO they should get their butts to a carrier and move the bar, or give cover to their teammates *at the carrier*. But to each his own, and I suppose that those who think that camping at an airport to "cover" over there may have a point. But I still think it's not an optimal way of winning CTC.

In Dogfight mission, I do not shoot players until they are up and into their first turn. For anyone but high ranks, I wait until they finish their turn. (For mid-ranks, I might follow them around and tell them to evade, but it depends on who else if after my hide). Many times, I've turned away from airports to circle 360 when I see a new spawn, and have gotten thanked for doing that. I know I thank others for doing that (but I don't expect them to, because my rank is high).

Again, none of this is about rule breaking. But the two comments I heard recently (one from Swop in Defend Zepp when zepp was on final approach) (and the other from RGA or something like that, in BTC, with the sideways example above) were not where I draw the line, as far as what's rude or unsporting advantage-taking etc. Everyone draws a slightly different line, but I wanted you both (and others) to know my thinking.

I'd be interested in hearing all sides on these examples.

Manfred

PS: In that Defend Zepp game, Swop was on my team, so it certainly wasn't a whine. He simply disagreed with my tactic, and I respect that. But I disagree!

Manfred, I hope you didn't take my "in chat comment" as "whining" it appears you didn't. I said what I said not in disrespect in anyway. I don't want you in any way think I was "upset at you" either. You and I think everybody knows the "Swop stance" of being "rather strict" albeit "simple approach" to the concept of spawnkilling which is never. How I combat the spawning planes shooting is by bombing hangers and/or carriers from many different angles so as not to spawnkill and at the same time protect my plane. One can bomb from behind the base, side of the base, high altitude, etc. I will say that in CTC, that landing on the carrier is not where one spawns but in fact its at the base. So therefore, in my opinion, shooting down a landed plane from anywhere other than the area of spawn is okay. Its not technically spawnkilling cause the planes have already spawned. I always wait 3-5 seconds before shooting a plane that just has spawned.

If a plane lands anywhere other than the location of spawn it is Swops opinion, hes fair game cause technically its not spawnkilling.

Manfred, I hope I didn't open up a "can of worms" in this reply. I only post cause your one of my pilots I most respect. Don't look down on ol' Swop. (now I'm being a little self-conscience)

Good topic Biplane. Yes, spawn killing is bad, and it is against Falcon code. I wait until they are off or clear of the runway, it is annoying though when your about to btb and you get shot down.

doughens wrote: Manfred, I hope you didn't take my "in chat comment" as "whining" it appears you didn't. I said what I said not in disrespect in anyway. I don't want you in any way think I was "upset at you" either. You and I think everybody knows the "Swop stance" of being "rather strict" albeit "simple approach" to the concept of spawnkilling which is never. How I combat the spawning planes shooting is by bombing hangers and/or carriers from many different angles so as not to spawnkill and at the same time protect my plane. One can bomb from behind the base, side of the base, high altitude, etc. I will say that in CTC, that landing on the carrier is not where one spawns but in fact its at the base. So therefore, in my opinion, shooting down a landed plane from anywhere other than the area of spawn is okay. Its not technically spawnkilling cause the planes have already spawned. I always wait 3-5 seconds before shooting a plane that just has spawned.

If a plane lands anywhere other than the location of spawn it is Swops opinion, hes fair game cause technically its not spawnkilling.

Manfred, I hope I didn't open up a "can of worms" in this reply. I only post cause your one of my pilots I most respect. Don't look down on ol' Swop. (now I'm being a little self-conscience)

No no no, we're totally cool. IMO we are having a great conversation, starting with your in-game chat and now the continuation of this thread. I'm not due any extra respect (just throw money), and your in-game comment was taken completely as it was intended. You have said you draw the line before "appearance of impropriety" so you are far from the line and never get close enough to be accused (if that is an accurate paraphrasing). I myself am willing to take it to the line, and I'll get accused once in a while, and I'll explain here, which is what I've done.

No one has to agree with me. I just didn't want my actions to be misunderstood.

Manfred

Manfred, Thats what is cool. You and I ALWAYS get along.

Banana, try practicing bombing from different locations of the hangers. Try from behind the base and/or from either side of the base as opposed to always from the front of the base.

With a little practice and depth perception analysis on your part you too can be an expert bomb the base pilot.

99% of pilots bomb from front in dogfight but there are infinite locations on the hangers for one to bomb and at the same time protect oneself from being shot down from spawning planes.