Here's a snip from the rules:

Dogfight (in game) and Dogfight Forum Rules
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17. (In game only) Do not team kill, destroy our own bases or anything else that would be deemed "gameplay ruining"

During a scenario, your team is BLUE. The enemy is RED. Team killing and destroying your own base amount to "gameplay ruining".

Basic game rules, right?

I understand squadron pride. But when you shoot down a Blue team mate for carrying your squadron's tag because you don't believe he's a member of your squadron - or even if he definitely isn't a squadron member - that just sucks and it's a violation of rule 17 of Dogfight.

You might feel like you're meting out justice, but you might be mistaken. The person who you think doesn't belong to your squadron may actually belong to your squad. He may be a new member, or an old member who changed his in-game name. Or he may be someone who admires your squadron and, ignorant of your squad's membership protocol, decides to sport your squad's tag.

Furthermore, what about your other Blue team mates? Don't they deserve your attention focused on going after the Reds rather than "dishing out squad justice"?

And even if the player in question doesn't belong to your squadron and carries your squad tag, SO WHAT? As long as he's going after the Reds, that's what matters.

If squadrons disappeared, this would still be a fun game as long as people follow the Blue=good, Red=dead rule. Going after a Blue because of alleged squadron tag transgressions is teamkilling, and ruins the game.

I am junkie61, and I approved this message!

I never teamkill, unless it was an accident. When people are ruining the game (swearing, bad manners, killing team, destroying team AP), I fire a single shot into their plane to make them smoke, just as a warning. Usually they stop then.

If not, then there's not much I can do from there.

junkhole61 wrote: Here's a snip from the rules:

Dogfight (in game) and Dogfight Forum Rules
=================================
.
.
17. (In game only) Do not team kill, destroy our own bases or anything else that would be deemed "gameplay ruining"

During a scenario, your team is BLUE. The enemy is RED. Team killing and destroying your own base amount to "gameplay ruining".

Basic game rules, right?

I understand squadron pride. But when you shoot down a Blue team mate for carrying your squadron's tag because you don't believe he's a member of your squadron - or even if he definitely isn't a squadron member - that just sucks and it's a violation of rule 17 of Dogfight.

You might feel like you're meting out justice, but you might be mistaken. The person who you think doesn't belong to your squadron may actually belong to your squad. He may be a new member, or an old member who changed his in-game name. Or he may be someone who admires your squadron and, ignorant of your squad's membership protocol, decides to sport your squad's tag.

Furthermore, what about your other Blue team mates? Don't they deserve your attention focused on going after the Reds rather than "dishing out squad justice"?

And even if the player in question doesn't belong to your squadron and carries your squad tag, SO WHAT? As long as he's going after the Reds, that's what matters.

If squadrons disappeared, this would still be a fun game as long as people follow the Blue=good, Red=dead rule. Going after a Blue because of alleged squadron tag transgressions is teamkilling, and ruins the game.

I am junkie61, and I approved this message!

Sputnik approves this message.

I agree with you Junk.

Ps: I hope this isn't why you left MOM.

Why you no stay? [imagine picture of that guy who says "why you no ...". ]

OK I'll be good

That's a good point Junk, I do however, when I find a mindless idiot with either a really foul or racist mouth ask both sides to go after them, as often as not that's what happens and the mindless idiot is forced to leave the game.
On the other hand if an imposter is asked to drop the tag and follow procedure, but they ignore you or come back with some bull answer to you, well they're asking to be shot down just for being an a!!hole!

Edited: posted twice by mistake (read the following post)

Muck, I respect your opinions, but Junk has a point here, because shooting the guy won't necessarily make him change his behavior, at least not immediately; besides, when you focus on firing him you are leaving your teammates uncovered on the mission.
Teamkilling, spawnkilling and things like that are not an issue that needs to be fixed during game, it can be fixed by the squad administrators and/or by the game/forum mods.
My opinion is that nothing justifies team-killing (humm, maybe the exception would be asking to be shot by turning on a tank in a btc mission?...)

- If I see a team-killer, blue or red one, I quit the game.
- If I see a spawn-killer, blue or red one, I quit the game.
- If I see a no-name as a blue player, I try to swap sides (red ones makes a good challenge).
- If I see someone bombing his/her own carrier/base, I quit the game.
(I tell my teammates before I quit, of course).

You can't bomb your own carrier it does no dammage so that don't matter.

Hamers wrote: You can't bomb your own carrier it does no dammage so that don't matter.

Whatever, you got the point.

I spawned into a bomb the base yesterday, took off and headed toward enemy base. As I was climbing out tracers pinged me from behind. I knew I was being hit by friendly fire, because there was no enemy on radar. I took evasive action and looked to see who the offender was.

To my surprise it was a squadron mate.

I asked him what was going on, and got no immediate answer. I attacked enemy targets, and my squadron mate kept firing on me. I asked him again what was going on and he said he was killing squadron impostors. I told him I had recently changed my in-game name (I had also posted the name change in public for all to see). He kept firing, and said it was "orders from wig" (one of the squadron elders). I addressed him by his real life name and told him to stop, and he finally stopped shooting.

He later PMed an apology.

However, he now has decided to go "undercover" by dropping his squad tag and changing his in-game name in pursuit of locating and punishing squad tag "imposters".

This vigilantism is really childish, in my opinion. And it ruins gameplay.

Thank you Junk..... good thread.. Only time I have ever team killed is accident or going after a team killer. Anything else I leave alone...I usually only go after teamkillers after warning them or they kill teammates multiple times.



Just read the MOM thread about this undercover stuff.......NOT A GOOD IDEA

I disagree, respectfully. I don't seek out a fight, and give people the benefit of the doubt. If they can provide a valid name when I ask who invited them, I leave them be. If they can't, I ask them to remove the tag. I either get no response, which gets different reactions from me depending on my mood; I get an obnoxious response, to which I continue to plead my case, until, of course, I have to teamkill in self defense, which happens far too often ; or they say "Sure, when I'm done playing", or "Okay, after this game", and I just hope they do and let them. If they gave an acceptable response and then begin teamkilling etc, I'm more than happy to shoot them down. Teamkillers go down, red or blue. Same with many spawnkillers, and excessive swearing is on a case-by-case basis.

Hunting imposters is pointless. There aren't enough of them, and a random guy teamkilling them is more likely to get the hunter banned than to do anything productive.

Although some of the views expressed here differ from one another I tend to agree with them all, in principle if not in practice. A few points need to be addressed:

1) I've never "ordered" teamkilling. I've put a M.O.M impostor's name up on our thread, asked for a squad consensus as to whether that player was a fake or possibly someone who'd been recruited, misunderstood, adopted the tag, a no-harm-meant noob, was a known member flying under a different name (many of us in Dogfight do this for kicks) or some other mitigating circumstance. If the answer comes back, "Fake" and there are numerous encounters by more than one player during which the impostor was respectfully asked to lose the tag but chose to either ignore the request or openly taunt, abuse or cajole...I've said, "Shoot on sight, red or blue." Personally I've never team killed purely on the basis of a stolen tag. But I don't discourage the practice if an individual M.O.M deems it appropriate. I don't do other players' thinking for them. I've only ever team killed after having been team killed, or having witnessed a team mate being team killed. Team killers on my team - assuming I've asked them to stop and the team killing has continued - die until I'm banned or they quit. As has already been suggested here one way to deal with team killers, and I've found it to work depending upon the group, is to request a truce while red and blue go after the offender. They will almost always cooperate and the offender will almost always quit.

2) No "stealth" or "vigilante" actions mentioned on this thread have been sanctioned by me or the core members of M.O.M. I agree that it potentially causes more harm than good and I've conveyed this to a couple members of M.O.M who expressed a sense of outrage at our tag being stolen and our squad poorly represented. They were/are not wrong in their desire to keep the M.O.M name untarnished by unauthorized players. But, again as has been mentioned here, there are too many players in Dogfight, too few security measures and it's too easy to tag-snag to function as squad police. I recently encountered a noob called, "M.O.M#_____" . He didn't even know how to steal the tag so he just typed M.O.M into his name! How can you possibly police stuff like that? You can't. I don't condone trying.

3) M.O.M was created with the idea of making the game more fun. We're the squad that doesn't take the game as seriously as others. We DO take playing fairly and being considerate and respectful very seriously. That we've grown as rapidly as we have, in numbers as well as thread activity, is a testament to that simple formula. I'm all for keeping it simple: kill team killers, request impostors to respect the tag then use your own judgment if they don't, be solidly sure that it is, in fact, an impostor before taking any action...and try to keep it light and fun. This is one of my earliest concerns about taking squads, rules, councils, "justice" and other problematic real world concepts much too seriously in a game. It's a game. Role play as "Third in Command" or "Chief Recruitment Officer" or "Council Member" if that fantasy enhances your enjoyment, but it is not the real world and we are not real combatants in a real war. We're video gamers playing on phones. Fantasy is fine but all this ultra-sober business sucks the fun out of it for me. I'm speaking to overzealous M.O.M members as much as to anyone else.

Junk, thanks for creating this thread. You're already missed.

I spawnkill and teamkill only 2 times if there is an idiot like that guy named N Hater.That was fun spawnkilling him.

i agree with calvin.generaly there is no reason to kill any one.but whaymt happent wend:you are in a intense game some times a long one were you and your squad make a big effort to defend or try to win..sudenly you have the idiot..no the noob(the noob dosent know ofthem) behinde you killing you at hes hoter moment..wend you try to defend your base.or wend you are about to bom enemys base..and you telling me we soud yust accep it...sorry i dont have a martir vocacion.if they do that in porpuse i quick react..ofcourse i try to find out fitrs if it eas a mistake..if not......we must try to respect each other but not to bound our selfs..and get the all fustration.