I have been accused of being a dropper all the time in capture game wich I do drop my bombs.are we expected to carry bombs in capture games?cause im really tired of being called a dropper in capture games

We should not publicize the proper etiquette here. I would love to find the CTC games with people dumb enough to keep their bomb. Shh! Yes you are an evil dropper 6, wink wink, nudge, nudge, say no more

It depends gun on the way to get flag keep your bomb and when you got flag drop

Uh... Seriously? If there is nothing to bomb in order to win, then no need for a bomb. But feel free to carry one bhg!

BLACKHAWKGHOST... wrote: It depends gun on the way to get flag keep your bomb and when you got flag drop

TXLAWMAN wrote: We should not publicize the proper etiquette here. I would love to find the CTC games with people dumb enough to keep their bomb. Shh! Yes you are an evil dropper 6, wink wink, nudge, nudge, say no more

I carry at least one bomb 50% or more of the time playing ctc helps stabilize the plane so i can shoot planes from a long distance when i'm at their carrier and they are on the way from their base,so most ctc games you've seen me in over the years I've been carrying a bomb sometimes 2 so call me what you will. Dumb,stupid maybe even a moron for carrying in a ctc but i do very well playing that way. No need for calling people dumb for playing the way they prefer. Just sayin

6 gun next time someone calls you a dropper in a ctc game ask that person what he plans on bombing with those bombs in a ctc game.

Chill T. If it works for you do it. I know while you choose to carry, you aren't accusing people of cheating who choose not to in capture games. Stupid is as stupid does. You seem to do pretty well, enough said there!

I can see why some carry an some dont. It matters what your style of play is.I dont fly straight so no need to be stable so I get rid of bombs but lots carry one or two.(bombs make me look fat.they add 20 pounds on your looks)so no bombs for me but you better drop them quick if I get passed you lol

6GUN just don't turnfight noobs they can't catch up with your planes turnfight people with higher planes

6gun wrote: I have been accused of being a dropper all the time in capture game wich I do drop my bombs.are we expected to carry bombs in capture games?cause im really tired of being called a dropper in capture games

Only time i carry bombs is when theres something to bomb. Surely dont carry bombs in ctf games

Yeah got to admit as one who always carrys two, the minute I am in any game ctf or ctc I drop, and just go with the flow . If its not a bombing game then .... Game on

BLACKHAWKGHOST... wrote: 6GUN just don't turnfight noobs they can't catch up with your planes turnfight people with higher planes

so im in game with other pilots am I suppose to ignore them an not shoot them if they dont have as good of plane as me

6gun wrote:

BLACKHAWKGHOST... wrote: 6GUN just don't turnfight noobs they can't catch up with your planes turnfight people with higher planes

so im in game with other pilots am I suppose to ignore them an not shoot them if they dont have as good of plane as me

BHG is not known for his sage advice. Next he's going to tell you to carry your bombs in a dogfight game if there's a noob there! Lol

hahahahs funny husky I can see we have our differences in strtegies

[*M] CC RIDER wrote: Yeah got to admit as one who always carrys two, the minute I am in any game ctf or ctc I drop, and just go with the flow . If its not a bombing game then .... Game on

Ditto. I cannot tell you the number of folks I have shot down who held their bombs in a df or ctf/ctc mission for stability, and dropped too late to turn and evade me. You see the bombs coming off as you line them up, then its all over but the chute guy!

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My only question is, why a "dropper" became an issue. It was actually a highly used tactic in ww1 & 2 to have bombers and fighters to get the bombers to their destination. But i guess a better tactic would be fly head on n hope u get the first 4 hits lol.

Not to mention what made each individual pilot dangerous in their own way.
But normally im at least try taking one in. Leave with both if no opps r near my base but if im coming out and have some tanks or multiple planes coming in am i supposed to come out slow and get shot down? Or squirm out n do my best to stop as many as possible

BLACKHAWKGHOST... wrote: hahahahs funny husky I can see we have our differences in strtegies

Want to know what I do when I enter a dogfight game with a bunch of noobs? I don't shoot at all. I just fly around and give them a target and some advice/ encouragement. I don't think I've ever spawned into a bombing or capture game with nothing but noobs, but if one pops into a game with a bunch of heavies, well, he's just a liability and I'm going to take him out. I learned a hell of a lot by getting my butt blasted out of the sky.

Lol funny i go into a game same situation as i just said, i had 3 opps coming in close to bomb killing left and right. I dropped my bombs flew out above the shots an halped bring them down. Then im told not to drop haha. Sorry when i fly, im not doing it for most kills and least deaths. Im doing it for the W. Team player. Ill die just as much as i kill or more if it means helping the team get the W. Coming out slow and just adding to others stats and getting our hangars bombed is stupid. What good is carrying a bomb or two when as soon your leaving the ground you are being shot from someone up to speed and at better angle.

So what does all this have to do with playing a capture game again?

I have done the same thing Husky. Finger off the trigger for the noobs, and some helpful tips and encouragement. My hope is that I can act in a manner which keeps them coming back for more. Not everyone agrees with my style, but tough.

Most games i will carry at least one bomb my favorite is to keep my bomb in flag and capture carrier games in the carrier games pilots sat with the brake on are imune to bullets if the carrier is blue till i drop a bomb on their noggin .also i keep it in flag games my fave trick is to drop it on the runway as i go in for flag Ive see multiple pile ups due to that one bomb .plus keeping the bomb gives me great head on stability.i have even carried in df games it iproves your turning skills in bomb missions

Knuckles0318 wrote: My only question is, why a "dropper" became an issue. It was actually a highly used tactic in ww1 & 2 to have bombers and fighters to get the bombers to their destination. But i guess a better tactic would be fly head on n hope u get the first 4 hits lol.

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That is an excellent question, and for what I have been able to google about that topic you are correct. It is a tactic use in air combat, which players here seem to confuse or try to denigrate. The games title is Dogfight and this strategy was use in battle to give cover to bomber planes. This is an old argument here in the game; if we are all blue dots and a green square comes a long we want him to be blue and round or else we will reject him. Players treat the game like it was a shooting gallery game, therefore missing the point and excitement of the different strategies or possibilities you can use and explore to have a more FUN game.


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Well said ace

well put RED i was in a game with you the other day and you wher a red on my side was NA_ZI who you proclaimed a dropper (and he was dropping i was behind him) so i see you drop just so you can match him .from that point i knew i was in trouble carrying a bomb as the whole team would now suffer ! i had no chance to carrying a bomb and complete the mission at hand.NA_ZI has tried this with me too and i did the same as you its a no win situation PLAY THE GAME AS DESCRIBED when it says bomb try to bomb im a little peeved at people in carrier games just dropping so they can tank the carrier with no attempt to play the mission .

WEREWÜLF II wrote:

Acegirl wrote:

Knuckles0318 wrote: My only question is, why a "dropper" became an issue. It was actually a highly used tactic in ww1 & 2 to have bombers and fighters to get the bombers to their destination. But i guess a better tactic would be fly head on n hope u get the first 4 hits lol.

.

That is an excellent question, and for what I have been able to google about that topic you are correct. It is a tactic use in air combat, which players here seem to confuse or try to denigrate. The games title is Dogfight and this strategy was use in battle to give cover to bomber planes. This is an old argument here in the game; if we are all blue dots and a green square comes a long we want him to be blue and round or else we will reject him. Players treat the game like it was a shooting gallery game, therefore missing the point and excitement of the different strategies or possibilities you can use and explore to have a more FUN game.


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I disagree with acegirl. The reason why the dropping tactic is an issues is rooted in the paradox of the game being a world war one game, and the limitations of the algorithms of the game. I'll explain; to start, pilots in world war one lived by extremely strict codes of honor. This had more to do with the level of industrialization at the beginning of the war. Simply put, WW1 was the last war of "chivalry" and the first war of "Total War". Although, This is not central to the issue here but is an important element, because people claim its a "war game."

So where's the paradox? It's not only because its a world war one game, but its because the game tells you what type of game play is expected.......again....expected. notice how no one accuses anyone of dropping in free for all? Why? Because its obviously that anything goes. But when you enter into a game which says "bomb" something, and you play by the instructions...which obviously puts you at a disadvantage when you're playing against those which are dropping their payload...it begs the question: Why did they drop? Why did they choose to ignore the stated instructions? I answer that by saying they simply are looking to beat up on someone. They clearly can't win the game without bombs, so their objective is to stop you from winning; but they do it in such a manner which takes advantage of the limitations laid out by the algorithms. Carrying bombs puts you at a disadvantage...a disadvantage for playing by the expected rules.

The point being, its a game. Play by the rules, like in all games. It being a war game doesn't change the culture of games in general, because its a ww1 game, which makes a code of honor historically applicable.

Dognamitt wrote: well put RED i was in a game with you the other day and you wher a red on my side was NA_ZI who you proclaimed a dropper (and he was dropping i was behind him) so i see you drop just so you can match him .from that point i knew i was in trouble carrying a bomb as the whole team would now suffer ! i had no chance to carrying a bomb and complete the mission at hand.NA_ZI has tried this with me too and i did the same as you its a no win situation PLAY THE GAME AS DESCRIBED when it says bomb try to bomb im a little peeved at people in carrier games just dropping so they can tank the carrier with no attempt to play the mission .

WEREWÜLF II wrote:

Acegirl wrote:

Knuckles0318 wrote: My only question is, why a "dropper" became an issue. It was actually a highly used tactic in ww1 & 2 to have bombers and fighters to get the bombers to their destination. But i guess a better tactic would be fly head on n hope u get the first 4 hits lol.

I ran into NA_ZI the other day dropping then flying to the blue base, camping and shooting all the spawning blues on the runway. Once I took care of him and prevented him from returning to the blue base to resume the tactic he left.

Werewulf makes some excellent points and I am inclined to agree with him. Folks tend to overlook the chivalry shared among WWI pilots and their respect for one another, and I have seldom seen that mentioned with regard to dropping, camping, game play, etc.

What I have noticed is most folks who take a stand on one side of the issue or the other will cite reasons to either drop or not drop based on their particular style of game play. "I'm helping my team" doesn't cut it in my eyes because what normally happens is by dropping you cause the other team to drop making it even tougher for the guys carrying bombs to get through. Most of what you see are droppers justifying why they drop, not so much the other way around.

However a person's play normally will not be changed by a discussion on the forum. You either drop and call it tactics or you hold your bombs through thick and thin and complain that folks are dropping. I just try to figure out who's who in the zoo and adjust my gameplay to maximize my chance of dropping a bomb on the intended target. Droppers gonna drop, sneakers gonna sneak. Viper's not doing either because he, as pointed out by Red, is following the game instructions.... "bomb something". I like it when folks play how they see fit, even when they drop. It just presents a different challenge to overcome, nothing more or less.

Many of us have seen Acegirl play, and Knuckles is around a lot, so there should be no surprises as to what you will be dealing with when they are red. They are both good players and fly with honor, the fact that they choose different tactics doesn't change that at all. I wouldn't even compare them to folks like NA_ZI who, by his actions, isn't really trying to help his team, just rack up stats. That is evidenced by his game departure when he cannot shoot helpless folks and has to face a comparable or better player/plane. I think most of us know and recognize the difference between actual tactical play and droppers.

Besides, there is something satisfying about shoving my plane with its bombs right down the enemy's throat and bombing, rather than sneaking around or flying around bombless with no real sense of contribution to the game objective.





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Since this has swayed into the topic of dropping in "bombing games", lets keep some facts straight:



* Nowhere does the description of a "BTB" game say anything about "bombing".

* The instructions say "first to destroy enemy airfield wins".

* The hangars can be destroyed by either bombs or by tank salvos.

* There are no rules about the methods you must use to reach the mission objective.

* The difference in the plane's performance when carrying or dropping is a game design which promotes the use of different tactics. Think about it: what other reason is there for the difference? If it was a glitch Zup could have fixed it a long time ago.


* It may be true that many players drop and only go after bomb laden reds. It is also true that some actually do use it to further the mission objective. If you try to say this is not true you are calling me a liar. Although I don't do it very often, I have done it very effectively to help my teammates be able to deliver their bombs. In my thinking it is a disadvantage to just go out to kill the reds because it makes them spawn back to the best position to defend from.

* If you do not change your tactics when you meet an enemy dropper you are usually at a disadvantage. (I say "usually" because a concerted wave of blue "marksmen" can still overcome a red dropper.) There are many ways you can coordinate your team to counter a dropper. It all depends on your ability to be strategically creative.

* Dogfight requires a mix of skill and strategy. Trying to limit the strategic element makes as much sense as trying to limit the skill element.

* No one has the authority to tell anyone how to play the game. If no rules are being broken, you cannot force anyone to play a particular way. By adopting any particular strategy someone is not forcing you to play their way. You can keep doing what you always do, but it is foolish if you are continually getting shot to pieces. Still, you have options.

* Games do not "go on forever" because people are dropping . The longest games are typically ones in which people stay in the valley of death. Looking through the posts of the longest games there is often (not always) a complaint of how someone eventually did a sneak to end it.

* There is no tangible gain form a high KDR and there is no tangible loss from having a low one and you do not lose any points from being shot down. If someone is "taking advantage" by shooting reds and not going for a win they are not actually harming anything except your ego.

* Historically speaking, war has always been fought not only on the battle field but also in the planning rooms and laboratories. There is a reason wars are no longer fought by long infantry lines facing each other on open ground. Is that dishonorable?

* If you just don't like the way games go when someone drops, I'm sorry but no one owes you a head-on up the middle game. The game is designed with options. It is up to you whether you would rather complain or if you would rather rise to the challenge.





And Finally:

* Lots has been said about the "Chivalry" of pilots in WW1. Sure there were cases where particular pilots would not finish off a disabled enemy. At the beginning of the war airplanes were used for reconnaissance and were unarmed. It was common for pilots from opposing sides to see each other as "fellow aviators". The trouble is that there was still a war going on and having the enemy able to see your ground troops was enough of a disadvantage that the "fellowship of aviators" was counterproductive for trying to win the war. In July of 1915 the interrupter gear made the German E111 able to fire straight ahead. They annihilated the allied pilots who were only outfitted with hand held weapons, chivalry be damned. It was known as " The Fokker Scourge " It was unfair to say the least.

From the article:
... hundreds, nay thousands of machines have been ordered which have been referred to by our pilots as "Fokker Fodder" ... I would suggest that quite a number of our gallant officers in the Royal Flying Corps have been rather murdered than killed.
— Pemberton Billing

The allies did not file a complaint and ask the Germans for mercy, they got busy and built new planes such as the DH2 and the Nieuport 11 which did not need to fire bullets through the propeller. What they did was to "innovate".

"Innovate": To make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas or products.

If the allies did not innovate and change their hardware and tactics they would have lost the war very quickly. If you do not change your tactics or hardware when someone chooses to drop you will probably have a hard time. "Chivalry" is a nice concept but it does nothing to bring anyone back from the dead.




* Cry or fly. Your choice.

First of all we have gotten of topic but thats fine.
About the problem to me of dropping in bombing games.if there were squad wars an real teams are formed then escorting an all tactics would be justified.but in regular game if someone drops on opposing team then more will drop an then its all about team dogfight.an that never ends well everyone gets mad.so I say only drop bombs in bombing games for very good reason.but everyone will have to figure out that reason.thaank you

Great Post MaFate

[NLR] McFate wrote: Since this has swayed into the topic of dropping in "bombing games", lets keep some facts straight:



* Nowhere does the description of a "BTB" game say anything about "bombing".

* The instructions say "first to destroy enemy airfield wins".

* The hangars can be destroyed by either bombs or by tank salvos.

* There are no rules about the methods you must use to reach the mission objective.

* The difference in the plane's performance when carrying or dropping is a game design which promotes the use of different tactics. Think about it: what other reason is there for the difference? If it was a glitch Zup could have fixed it a long time ago.


* It may be true that many players drop and only go after bomb laden reds. It is also true that some actually do use it to further the mission objective. If you try to say this is not true you are calling me a liar. Although I don't do it very often, I have done it very effectively to help my teammates be able to deliver their bombs. In my thinking it is a disadvantage to just go out to kill the reds because it makes them spawn back to the best position to defend from.

* If you do not change your tactics when you meet an enemy dropper you are usually at a disadvantage. (I say "usually" because a concerted wave of blue "marksmen" can still overcome a red dropper.) There are many ways you can coordinate your team to counter a dropper. It all depends on your ability to be strategically creative.

* Dogfight requires a mix of skill and strategy. Trying to limit the strategic element makes as much sense as trying to limit the skill element.

* No one has the authority to tell anyone how to play the game. If no rules are being broken, you cannot force anyone to play a particular way. By adopting any particular strategy someone is not forcing you to play their way. You can keep doing what you always do, but it is foolish if you are continually getting shot to pieces. Still, you have options.

* Games do not "go on forever" because people are dropping . The longest games are typically ones in which people stay in the valley of death. Looking through the posts of the longest games there is often (not always) a complaint of how someone eventually did a sneak to end it.

* There is no tangible gain form a high KDR and there is no tangible loss from having a low one and you do not lose any points from being shot down. If someone is "taking advantage" by shooting reds and not going for a win they are not actually harming anything except your ego.

* Historically speaking, war has always been fought not only on the battle field but also in the planning rooms and laboratories. There is a reason wars are no longer fought by long infantry lines facing each other on open ground. Is that dishonorable?

* If you just don't like the way games go when someone drops, I'm sorry but no one owes you a head-on up the middle game. The game is designed with options. It is up to you whether you would rather complain or if you would rather rise to the challenge.





And Finally:

* Lots has been said about the "Chivalry" of pilots in WW1. Sure there were cases where particular pilots would not finish off a disabled enemy. At the beginning of the war airplanes were used for reconnaissance and were unarmed. It was common for pilots from opposing sides to see each other as "fellow aviators". The trouble is that there was still a war going on and having the enemy able to see your ground troops was enough of a disadvantage that the "fellowship of aviators" was counterproductive for trying to win the war. In July of 1915 the interrupter gear made the German E111 able to fire straight ahead. They annihilated the allied pilots who were only outfitted with hand held weapons, chivalry be damned. It was known as " The Fokker Scourge " It was unfair to say the least.

From the article:
... hundreds, nay thousands of machines have been ordered which have been referred to by our pilots as "Fokker Fodder" ... I would suggest that quite a number of our gallant officers in the Royal Flying Corps have been rather murdered than killed.
— Pemberton Billing

The allies did not file a complaint and ask the Germans for mercy, they got busy and built new planes such as the DH2 and the Nieuport 11 which did not need to fire bullets through the propeller. What they did was to "innovate".

"Innovate": To make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas or products.

If the allies did not innovate and change their hardware and tactics they would have lost the war very quickly. If you do not change your tactics or hardware when someone chooses to drop you will probably have a hard time. "Chivalry" is a nice concept but it does nothing to bring anyone back from the dead.




* Cry or fly. Your choice.

If all tactics are welcomed, then mig 29 has the right idea. Take advantage of every possible opportunity. Glitching is also apart of modern warfare...by this logic it should be welcomed too.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. One is either a scumbag player, or not. There's no middle ground. If one shady style is acceptable because its a war game, then all tactics are acceptable.

So before we frame the conversation as those who are crying and those who aren't, are you going to be ok which I glitch you...or are you going to cry about it. After, this is war.

[NLR] McFate wrote: Since this has swayed into the topic of dropping in "bombing games", lets keep some facts straight:



* Nowhere does the description of a "BTB" game say anything about "bombing".

* The instructions say "first to destroy enemy airfield wins".

* The hangars can be destroyed by either bombs or by tank salvos.

* There are no rules about the methods you must use to reach the mission objective.

* The difference in the plane's performance when carrying or dropping is a game design which promotes the use of different tactics. Think about it: what other reason is there for the difference? If it was a glitch Zup could have fixed it a long time ago.


* It may be true that many players drop and only go after bomb laden reds. It is also true that some actually do use it to further the mission objective. If you try to say this is not true you are calling me a liar. Although I don't do it very often, I have done it very effectively to help my teammates be able to deliver their bombs. In my thinking it is a disadvantage to just go out to kill the reds because it makes them spawn back to the best position to defend from.

* If you do not change your tactics when you meet an enemy dropper you are usually at a disadvantage. (I say "usually" because a concerted wave of blue "marksmen" can still overcome a red dropper.) There are many ways you can coordinate your team to counter a dropper. It all depends on your ability to be strategically creative.

* Dogfight requires a mix of skill and strategy. Trying to limit the strategic element makes as much sense as trying to limit the skill element.

* No one has the authority to tell anyone how to play the game. If no rules are being broken, you cannot force anyone to play a particular way. By adopting any particular strategy someone is not forcing you to play their way. You can keep doing what you always do, but it is foolish if you are continually getting shot to pieces. Still, you have options.

* Games do not "go on forever" because people are dropping . The longest games are typically ones in which people stay in the valley of death. Looking through the posts of the longest games there is often (not always) a complaint of how someone eventually did a sneak to end it.

* There is no tangible gain form a high KDR and there is no tangible loss from having a low one and you do not lose any points from being shot down. If someone is "taking advantage" by shooting reds and not going for a win they are not actually harming anything except your ego.

* Historically speaking, war has always been fought not only on the battle field but also in the planning rooms and laboratories. There is a reason wars are no longer fought by long infantry lines facing each other on open ground. Is that dishonorable?

* If you just don't like the way games go when someone drops, I'm sorry but no one owes you a head-on up the middle game. The game is designed with options. It is up to you whether you would rather complain or if you would rather rise to the challenge.





And Finally:

* Lots has been said about the "Chivalry" of pilots in WW1. Sure there were cases where particular pilots would not finish off a disabled enemy. At the beginning of the war airplanes were used for reconnaissance and were unarmed. It was common for pilots from opposing sides to see each other as "fellow aviators". The trouble is that there was still a war going on and having the enemy able to see your ground troops was enough of a disadvantage that the "fellowship of aviators" was counterproductive for trying to win the war. In July of 1915 the interrupter gear made the German E111 able to fire straight ahead. They annihilated the allied pilots who were only outfitted with hand held weapons, chivalry be damned. It was known as " The Fokker Scourge " It was unfair to say the least.

From the article:
... hundreds, nay thousands of machines have been ordered which have been referred to by our pilots as "Fokker Fodder" ... I would suggest that quite a number of our gallant officers in the Royal Flying Corps have been rather murdered than killed.
— Pemberton Billing

The allies did not file a complaint and ask the Germans for mercy, they got busy and built new planes such as the DH2 and the Nieuport 11 which did not need to fire bullets through the propeller. What they did was to "innovate".

"Innovate": To make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas or products.

If the allies did not innovate and change their hardware and tactics they would have lost the war very quickly. If you do not change your tactics or hardware when someone chooses to drop you will probably have a hard time. "Chivalry" is a nice concept but it does nothing to bring anyone back from the dead.




* Cry or fly. Your choice.

I didn't read the McEssay...it was way too long. Besides, I'm certain it's a repeat from all the other bazillion times this gets brought up.

But I did read the topic heading.

Yes I drop in capture games. Every time. Ever since I can remember.