It's The Turn-Fighter..

If a noob releases his bombs, what do u do ? But if an advance turn-fighter releases his bomb, what do u do ?
"One you call a dropper, & shoot'em down. The other you call a dropper, & get shot down ?"

So the difference is this: A dropper you shoot down, but a turn-fighter shoots you down. So please.. do not call me a dropper, I'm better then that ? Call me Magnificent Heroicz the great turn-fighter !!!

Deal...when you start calling me Magnificent Gunzzz the great Head to Head fighter!!!

Noobs drop because their planes suck.what's your excuse.

darraxx wrote: Noobs drop because their planes suck.what's your excuse.

I'm an owner of a pc. I have no tablet. as of now.. yet.. yet !!!

oh, my bad, u ask me what's my excuse ? Well darrax.. I can call u darrax, can I ? Well darrax,, it's usually when I encounter an elite sharp shooter that's seemingly impossible to take down.. a threat.. & I hate to watch him pad his stats on me, so I take evasive action. In the honorable words of my friend & 111th Falcon Member tSwopcam1, " & I hope this helps ".

I see a ton of pc players that can shoot from.half way across the map .you see they actually took the time to learn how to do it .they dropped their sensitivity down a bit to stable out the plane .but mostly I think they just enjoy a even match .and would rather test their skills rather than spin around a bombing game shooting down.guys with bombs .like.I keep saying that is your one of the reasons zup actually split df 2 .the funny part about your post is you compare yourself to a noobs dropping.hell I was in a game with a noobs pc player yesterday.he asked how to shoot we told him.drop his sensitivity and guess what he almost instantly started killing with his bomb .so if a guy that has only been.playing for a week can do it what's you excuse?

Please pardon me. I’m a pc player, and I rarely drop, even in situations when the “experts” say it’s legal. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, just giving some background on where I’m coming from on this.

I’m not that great at the long shot game; 1.) Because I typically am getting shot at before I can even see my target, and 2.) While I have monkeyed with my sensitivity settings, I still find that the keyboard arrows tend to oversteer as far as aiming is concerned, and dialing back the sensitivity much more starts trading too much flight maneuverability for aiming stability. I’m also more interested in concentrating on developing my turning game.

Here is where I have a problem; darraxx, forget about the bomb for just a second, the train of thought that you’re on seems to suggest that the down the middle, long shot game is THE correct set of skills, and turn fighting is somehow something less. It's a common supposition in a lot of these type posts. I’ve never seen a place where Zup stated that was his opinion, or his intention for the ideal way Dogfight was meant to be played. As far as I’ve seen, with the exception of the tank glitch, he’s intentionally left the possibilities open.

I was attracted to the concept of a WWI air combat simulator. WWI air combat was about locating your target, gaining a superior position, and putting a burst into him, hopefully before he even knew you were there. If you didn’t pull that off it turned into a dogfight or a “furball” if there were multiple aircraft involved. From a historical standpoint, the only noteworthy example of someone who was known for the long shot or head on “playing chicken” approach was Air Marshal William Avery "Billy" Bishop (Major Bishop during WWI). My point being that if anything, turn fighting simulates a more historically accurate depiction of the lion’s share of WWI air combat.

To me, the straight down the middle, long shot skill set is more adapted to a first person shooter, arcade style, point treadmill game. I’m not saying that approach is wrong, or less than turn fighting, I’m just saying there is a difference between a flight simulator and a fps.

Here’s where the problem starts; Zup built a game that can be played either way, but has marketed it as a simulation. The term “simulation” typically suggests more of an expectation of more reality than something that is just called a game. That’s why some people like the idea of the new ballistic model in Dogfight Elite, and other people are unhappy with it; bullet drop is a more realistic simulation, while the straight laser shot serves the fps, straight down the middle, long shot style better.

Personally, I prefer to play Dogfight more like a simulator when possible. Since stealthily sneaking up on your adversary is all but impossible, that leaves turn fighting, and a little use of defilade. Does that make mine the right skill set, no just my skill set of choice.

As far as dropping goes, if you’re dropping in my face as I watch you take off in front of me, you’re probably not trying to complete our team's mission, you’re just treadmilling for points, and you could care less if anyone else is there or not . . . you might as well be playing solo against AI. If the situation has changed your mission to protect the base, or survive the furball any way you can so you can run away and live to fight another day, then by all means drop . . . that’s realistic.

darraxx wrote: I see a ton of pc players that can shoot from.half way across the map .you see they actually took the time to learn how to do it .they dropped their sensitivity down a bit to stable out the plane .but mostly I think they just enjoy a even match .and would rather test their skills rather than spin around a bombing game shooting down.guys with bombs .like.I keep saying that is your one of the reasons zup actually split df 2 .the funny part about your post is you compare yourself to a noobs dropping.hell I was in a game with a noobs pc player yesterday.he asked how to shoot we told him.drop his sensitivity and guess what he almost instantly started killing with his bomb .so if a guy that has only been.playing for a week can do it what's you excuse?

I can shoot head to head and keep a 4:1 kdr up to 100+ kills, and I play on pc and keep my sensitivity at max. No excuse to drop unless you're lazy, or just not good enough to keep up with actually skilled players.

S. E. Dailey wrote: Please pardon me. I’m a pc player, and I rarely drop, even in situations when the “experts” say it’s legal. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, just giving some background on where I’m coming from on this.

I’m not that great at the long shot game; 1.) Because I typically am getting shot at before I can even see my target, and 2.) While I have monkeyed with my sensitivity settings, I still find that the keyboard arrows tend to oversteer as far as aiming is concerned, and dialing back the sensitivity much more starts trading too much flight maneuverability for aiming stability. I’m also more interested in concentrating on developing my turning game.

Here is where I have a problem; darraxx, forget about the bomb for just a second, the train of thought that you’re on seems to suggest that the down the middle, long shot game is THE correct set of skills, and turn fighting is somehow something less. It's a common supposition in a lot of these type posts. I’ve never seen a place where Zup stated that was his opinion, or his intention for the ideal way Dogfight was meant to be played. As far as I’ve seen, with the exception of the tank glitch, he’s intentionally left the possibilities open.

I was attracted to the concept of a WWI air combat simulator. WWI air combat was about locating your target, gaining a superior position, and putting a burst into him, hopefully before he even knew you were there. If you didn’t pull that off it turned into a dogfight or a “furball” if there were multiple aircraft involved. From a historical standpoint, the only noteworthy example of someone who was known for the long shot or head on “playing chicken” approach was Air Marshal William Avery "Billy" Bishop (Major Bishop during WWI). My point being that if anything, turn fighting simulates a more historically accurate depiction of the lion’s share of WWI air combat.

To me, the straight down the middle, long shot skill set is more adapted to a first person shooter, arcade style, point treadmill game. I’m not saying that approach is wrong, or less than turn fighting, I’m just saying there is a difference between a flight simulator and a fps.

Here’s where the problem starts; Zup built a game that can be played either way, but has marketed it as a simulation. The term “simulation” typically suggests more of an expectation of more reality than something that is just called a game. That’s why some people like the idea of the new ballistic model in Dogfight Elite, and other people are unhappy with it; bullet drop is a more realistic simulation, while the straight laser shot serves the fps, straight down the middle, long shot style better.

Personally, I prefer to play Dogfight more like a simulator when possible. Since stealthily sneaking up on your adversary is all but impossible, that leaves turn fighting, and a little use of defilade. Does that make mine the right skill set, no just my skill set of choice.

As far as dropping goes, if you’re dropping in my face as I watch you take off in front of me, you’re probably not trying to complete our team's mission, you’re just treadmilling for points, and you could care less if anyone else is there or not . . . you might as well be playing solo against AI. If the situation has changed your mission to protect the base, or survive the furball any way you can so you can run away and live to fight another day, then by all means drop . . . that’s realistic.

I am in.no.way.a straight up the middle player I have a map and I use it .do I go down the valley of death a lot yes sir I'd do .but I will.sneak I will go high I do fly wide and just stay in radar to draw off pilots .I'll use almost any tactical advantage I can .I have never said you must fly the valley.but I see dropping at your base only to gain the pc advantage of 100%turning in a bombing mission the same as spawn killing .I can take on any phone or tab dropper and still carrying two bombs .I'll even sacrifice my furry butt so others can advance down the field .as far as I'm.concerned the original post of this.thread belongs on the padding stats thread .

[M]Royal Flush wrote:

darraxx wrote: I see a ton of pc players that can shoot from.half way across the map .you see they actually took the time to learn how to do it .they dropped their sensitivity down a bit to stable out the plane .but mostly I think they just enjoy a even match .and would rather test their skills rather than spin around a bombing game shooting down.guys with bombs .like.I keep saying that is your one of the reasons zup actually split df 2 .the funny part about your post is you compare yourself to a noobs dropping.hell I was in a game with a noobs pc player yesterday.he asked how to shoot we told him.drop his sensitivity and guess what he almost instantly started killing with his bomb .so if a guy that has only been.playing for a week can do it what's you excuse?

I can shoot head to head and keep a 4:1 kdr up to 100+ kills, and I play on pc and keep my sensitivity at max. No excuse to drop unless you're lazy, or just not good enough to keep up with actually skilled players.

I agree with flush,I am a pc player,I know I'm not as gd head to head as tablet players,but I still seem to be able to hold my own !!!!I take the advantages of turnfighting in non bombing games and take the hits in bombing games ,but to drop because" I don't want to pad their stats,SO I CAN PAD MY OWN"is something I don't do!!!That is the MOST PATHETIC excuse I have heard to date !!!!!BUT,look who said it !!!!!!!not surprised at all!!!

Yes.. Droppers or no droppers.. doesn't matter. The point is the mission.. because it goes both ways, believe that. Im not gud enough to contend with a head on flyer to the extreme fighting an Epic Cave Man battle... but then i can say ur not gud enough to fly a plane.. u can just tie the steering wheel down tight enough to keep it straight & shoot lke the revolutionary war.. the British vs the Blue coat colonies ?

All is a matter of opinion & not fact.. but 1 thing is for sure, in a war, such as this is, lets see who would be coming home for dinner tonite with our flying styles we prefer ? But to each their own, but hope ur girl friend ain't watching when u play against me.. because she's going to wanna know why u keep running from that plane ?

So i contend with all flyers as long as i don't suspect them from using sum sort of cheat mechanism ? As long as ur not cheating, I will play against u. I have a counter for u long range stat padders, I have also a counter for u droppers, I have a counter for u sneakers, I have a counter for just about everything this game has to offer even u cheaters. & do u know what my counter is against those who's style of fight/ play is different from mines ?

1. It's to remain humble.

2. If u lose ur cool, after a game treat ur friend to a jumbo juice.

3. Go to a church or synagogue, pray.

4. Always tell the pilots u play w/ to have a nice day.

111th| Heroicz wrote: Yes.. Droppers or no droppers.. doesn't matter. The point is the mission.. because it goes both ways, believe that. Im not gud enough to contend with a head on flyer to the extreme fighting an Epic Cave Man battle... but then i can say ur not gud enough to fly a plane.. u can just tie the steering wheel down tight enough to keep it straight & shoot lke the revolutionary war.. the British vs the Blue coat colonies ?

All is a matter of opinion & not fact.. but 1 thing is for sure, in a war, such as this is, lets see who would be coming home for dinner tonite with our flying styles we prefer ? But to each their own, but hope ur girl friend ain't watching when u play against me.. because she's going to wanna know why u keep running from that plane ?

So i contend with all flyers as long as i don't suspect them from using sum sort of cheat mechanism ? As long as ur not cheating, I will play against u. I have a counter for u long range stat padders, I have also a counter for u droppers, I have a counter for u sneakers, I have a counter for just about everything this game has to offer even u cheaters. & do u know what my counter is against those who's style of fight/ play is different from mines ?

1. It's to remain humble.

2. If u lose ur cool, after a game treat ur friend to a jumbo juice.

3. Go to a church or synagogue, pray.

4. Always tell the pilots u play w/ to have a nice day.

I'm not afraid to say it i drop but I don't do it to pad my stats I try and help the lower ranking people (10 or less) get to there destination and after I see a moraf whining about it, it makes me mad because they do t know why I am doing it.

Cheat? Hack? Couple of days back I was in a game with 2 of my squad mates,Diaob and walleye. One red,some major general, reported two of us for "cheating" and announced it on game chat. "Misfits hack"!! Seriously,wth? We wish we all were that smart, lol.

Well this is interesting!

111TH|GOLDENEAGLE wrote:

111th| Heroicz wrote: Yes.. Droppers or no droppers.. doesn't matter. The point is the mission.. because it goes both ways, believe that. Im not gud enough to contend with a head on flyer to the extreme fighting an Epic Cave Man battle... but then i can say ur not gud enough to fly a plane.. u can just tie the steering wheel down tight enough to keep it straight & shoot lke the revolutionary war.. the British vs the Blue coat colonies ?

All is a matter of opinion & not fact.. but 1 thing is for sure, in a war, such as this is, lets see who would be coming home for dinner tonite with our flying styles we prefer ? But to each their own, but hope ur girl friend ain't watching when u play against me.. because she's going to wanna know why u keep running from that plane ?

So i contend with all flyers as long as i don't suspect them from using sum sort of cheat mechanism ? As long as ur not cheating, I will play against u. I have a counter for u long range stat padders, I have also a counter for u droppers, I have a counter for u sneakers, I have a counter for just about everything this game has to offer even u cheaters. & do u know what my counter is against those who's style of fight/ play is different from mines ?

1. It's to remain humble.

2. If u lose ur cool, after a game treat ur friend to a jumbo juice.

3. Go to a church or synagogue, pray.

4. Always tell the pilots u play w/ to have a nice day.

I'm not afraid to say it i drop but I don't do it to pad my stats I try and help the lower ranking people (10 or less) get to there destination and after I see a moraf whining about it, it makes me mad because they do t know why I am doing it.

Well your so great a turn fighter there are three games that don't require bombs. Why don't I see you in those games .or do you get your azz kicked by other pc guys that fight in those games.or do you only feel the need to drop your bombs for any excuse like omg there's a noob that dropped he may shoot me one or two times before I splat him all over the map .and don't freaking tell anyone here you can't fight head on .I've seen you do it .as have many .your just looking for an excuse to drop and pad your stats .I'll tell you what you stay out of my games I'll stay out of your noob hunting games .oh why did I say that because eventually that all you will be doing just like every other guy that cries wolf in this game .no one will bother with you in the long run .why give you your cheap ass points .when someone can earn them in battle and hold their head up in the df community.
.

[M]Royal Flush wrote:

darraxx wrote: I see a ton of pc players that can shoot from.half way across the map .you see they actually took the time to learn how to do it .they dropped their sensitivity down a bit to stable out the plane .but mostly I think they just enjoy a even match .and would rather test their skills rather than spin around a bombing game shooting down.guys with bombs .like.I keep saying that is your one of the reasons zup actually split df 2 .the funny part about your post is you compare yourself to a noobs dropping.hell I was in a game with a noobs pc player yesterday.he asked how to shoot we told him.drop his sensitivity and guess what he almost instantly started killing with his bomb .so if a guy that has only been.playing for a week can do it what's you excuse?

I can shoot head to head and keep a 4:1 kdr up to 100+ kills, and I play on pc and keep my sensitivity at max. No excuse to drop unless you're lazy, or just not good enough to keep up with actually skilled players.

Everyone can be taken down... takes the time and practice. You Hz are not magnificent. See, you use your inability to shoot as an excuse to take advantage and pad your own stats for you take advantage of the differences between pc and everyone else. That is weak. I play with and against other pc owners who are far better than you... skill and morals. For us tablet and phone users, it took thousands off deaths for us to learn and acquire the meager skill some of us have. Fact is and you obviously know, there is a difference in turn fights between pc and other devices. So before patting yourself on the back, realize you're not asgood as you think. Just my two cents

[*M]ONSTER CANNON wrote: Everyone can be taken down... takes the time and practice. You Hz are not magnificent. See, you use your inability to shoot as an excuse to take advantage and pad your own stats for you take advantage of the differences between pc and everyone else. That is weak. I play with and against other pc owners who are far better than you... skill and morals. For us tablet and phone users, it took thousands off deaths for us to learn and acquire the meager skill some of us have. Fact is and you obviously know, there is a difference in turn fights between pc and other devices. So before patting yourself on the back, realize you're not asgood as you think. Just my two cents

I can't leave thankyous now. Consider this post as one! Thumbs up!!

[*M]ONSTER CANNON wrote: Everyone can be taken down... takes the time and practice. You Hz are not magnificent. See, you use your inability to shoot as an excuse to take advantage and pad your own stats for you take advantage of the differences between pc and everyone else. That is weak. I play with and against other pc owners who are far better than you... skill and morals. For us tablet and phone users, it took thousands off deaths for us to learn and acquire the meager skill some of us have. Fact is and you obviously know, there is a difference in turn fights between pc and other devices. So before patting yourself on the back, realize you're not asgood as you think. Just my two cents

U are entitled to ur opinion [M]onster Cannon. I respect ur opinion, i have been playing with or against u for quite some time now. Maybe 1 day we can have coffee together & siphon starbucks wifi & get on dogfight for a few matches ?

I played against you a few times Hero and as you know you have never heard one comment from me about your dropping. I actually don't mind it because I have never seen you use it in an abusive way such as spawn killing or to get close to enemy base to tank glitch. When players use those 2 tactics, well, that's just lame.

I do however have to agree with Cannon's comments. I don't know how true it is or why but it definitely seems that there is a big advantage for turn fighting for pc users. I am a decent turn fighter but match me up against any good turn fighter that plays on pc, such as yourself, and I feel like I'm in my noob plane.

It's always the same too. Anytime I see that I have a hard time dealing with a turn fighter, it always ends up being that they are a pc player. I am not complaining but I am just saying.

So hold your freaking bombs so I can bust you up in the head to head...lmao...I'm just kidding bro! It's always fun seeing you in a game, bombs or no bombs

I think its MOM you fear......

They drop......you sneak past them.

They sneak,.....you drop to protect your base.

Everyone drops,.......gonna be a long game.

Everyone sneaks,.........then everyone must drop.......oh wait. That's not right!

Thank you folks. Let's take a break for these messages.....

Its not the dropper whom I hate it the. ITS THE JERK that does it

Please don't post profanity on the forum BlackHawkGhost, so kindly edit your post to remove it.

It's interesting that so many say to drop your sensitivity to make it easier to aim and then say they have spent so much time developing their skills that it's cheap for others to turn fight in bombing games. It's kind like learning to play basketball and realizing it's easier to make baskets if you always shoot from the free throw line so you only focus on free throws. It's much easier to throw a football from a static position to someone who is only standing in one place, or to only practice shooting still targets from a bench rest.

Sure free throws and static targets are important to practice, but shouldn't you learn to shoot on the move too? Reducing your sensitivity would be like wearing a brace so your wrist always moves the same or by having stabilizers on your gun to steady your aim. As long as the other team has the etiquette to let you set up your shot you'll do fine. Also, what team of any sort only has people with only one skill set? An effective team (or squad) has specialists. Imagine a football team without designated "positions" ... where everyone is a quarterback (or a striker)


If you have reduced your sensitivity you have limited your ability to maneuver, is it fair to complain about someone who hasn't? Believe me, it takes time to develop your aim with sensitivity at max. It takes skill and patience. Figuring out how to line up shots while corkscrewing or while inverted is an ever developing talent and a real blast when it all comes together. Saying someone just doesn't care to take the time to develop their head on game is kind of like saying they are a bad musician because they practice the violin instead of trumpet. Isn't the symphony more interesting with a variety of talents? Don't sports teams use players where their talents can provide the best advantage?

My main issue is how so many complain instead of figuring out how to deal with all aspects of the game. People say their way is honorable and "the other " isn't. Poppycock. There is no way you can force others to play only your way. The game design and the rules allow for different styles and provide for different advantages. Is it a glitch that you can fly better without a bomb? Is it a game flaw that allows people to cheat? Bah!

[NLR] McFate wrote: It's interesting that so many say to drop your sensitivity to make it easier to aim and then say they have spent so much time developing their skills that it's cheap for others to turn fight in bombing games. It's kind like learning to play basketball and realizing it's easier to make baskets if you always shoot from the free throw line so you only focus on free throws. It's much easier to throw a football from a static position to someone who is only standing in one place, or to only practice shooting still targets from a bench rest.

Sure free throws and static targets are important to practice, but shouldn't you learn to shoot on the move too? Reducing your sensitivity would be like wearing a brace so your wrist always moves the same or by having stabilizers on your gun to steady your aim. As long as the other team has the etiquette to let you set up your shot you'll do fine. Also, what team of any sort only has people with only one skill set? An effective team (or squad) has specialists. Imagine a football team without designated "positions" ... where everyone is a quarterback (or a striker)


If you have reduced your sensitivity you have limited your ability to maneuver, is it fair to complain about someone who hasn't? Believe me, it takes time to develop your aim with sensitivity at max. It takes skill and patience. Figuring out how to line up shots while corkscrewing or while inverted is an ever developing talent and a real blast when it all comes together. Saying someone just doesn't care to take the time to develop their head on game is kind of like saying they are a bad musician because they practice the violin instead of trumpet. Isn't the symphony more interesting with a variety of talents? Don't sports teams use players where their talents can provide the best advantage?

My main issue is how so many complain instead of figuring out how to deal with all aspects of the game. People say their way is honorable and "the other " isn't. Poppycock. There is no way you can force others to play only your way. The game design and the rules allow for different styles and provide for different advantages. Is it a glitch that you can fly better without a bomb? Is it a game flaw that allows people to cheat? Bah!

But you see mcfate he neither attempts to bomb or bomb any tanks he just uses his pc.advantage TO.add to his Kdr .i do believe that your thread was about padding stats .pc players that drop for the sole advantage of having a100% turning radius(instant turning) is basically the same as the guys that use those cheap speed hacks .they use it because they know they can out fly anyone in the game .if everyone had a plane that could switch directions instantly then.this wouldn't be an.issue .and if they keep using it and more.people start.complaining zup will.just split the servers here .and what part of that doesn't anyone get .he already asked if we wanted them.split.we voted no and many pc player either learned to shoot or fly in the non bombing games .but now we have the pc players that keep.doing it and encourage more of the new ones to do it .so thaw a guess on where this will.end up .

And I will.add.this when.the pc thing gets out of hand like.it is now .and if zup asks to split the servers I'll.vote yes this time .it will.mean I won't get to fly with many of my friends and that will bite .so many will.suffer for the few and the few can be happy for their great achievement

Df elite with the split servers is the way it is going to be. I wonder how long DF one will remain operating. It already has unfixable glitches that people complain long and hard about. Why would PC players not move on the elite? The original will be available for a while for older devices but it will eventually die. Maybe sooner rather than later.

With the split servers for mobile and pc/consoles the issue of "dropping" will not go away. It was here before PC s, it will be here after the split. Since there doesn't seem to be a way to make things even between the different platforms I'm glad to see them separated. I remember the game when everyone was supposedly on a level playing field, so to speak. It was great to know that you had won due to truly out playing your opponent. Even then people complained how others played.

I just hope the game will become a better success. Making it more equitable may help. One thing for certain, the existing model was not doing very well. Sure those of us who stay love it, but how many people really stay and play? Since his death more than 2 years ago , DUCKWING1 (level 22) has only fallen to world rank 1068. Level 22 is only around a quarter of the points required for MORAF. I don't know what the highest level he ever reached was but only something like 600-700 accounts have stuck around long enough to pass him.

Hopefully the changes zup makes will encourage more to play and stay. Personally I believe that more tactical complexity will attract more devoted players especially real "gamers" The way zup has added some of his changes says to me that he may share this idea. His past posts and things he has tried show this to be the case. If he can get more people here the pool of friends will be greater. It's unfortunate that will require segregating devices but that's just the way it will have to go. Perhaps in the future some squads will only exist in one or the other of the servers.

And if and when zup splits the servers here .you know who will be the first to cry wolf .it will.be the pc droppers only for the fact is they won't be able to pad their stats anymore and wwill.be forced to fly with others like them .then maybe they will learn .it would really bite not to fly with so many great pilots I've made friend with .and this time.around I don't zup would even.give us a choice .

I really don't think the PC players will complain from the perspective of being PC players. The complaints are going to be from those who want to fly with their friends, just like when Zup determined that the best way to fight Lag was by making it so you could only play on the server that was geographically closest to you. People quickly squashed that idea even though they had been saying lag was the single biggest problem.

Zup was saying recently that it would not work to have moble devices and game consoles on the same servers. I did not get the impression he was doing it to separate the devices just because of performance differences. I wonder if there will be a performance disparity between PC and Xbox/PlayStation/ etc. I have a feeling that introducing the console crowd to the game will bring many new issues. Console gamers seem (in my experience) to care much less about any "community" and are often much more driven by stats... of course there will be some good exceptions.

As the developer and a business man zup needs to focus on making the game better. The community does not pay the bills, the subscribers do. Some may argue that the "community" is made up of the players who support the game but as I mentioned before, with only 600-700 accounts making it a quarter of the way to MORAF over the last 2 years,, that community is not large enough to pay the bills.

If he can make a smooth running kick-ass game, it will bring subscribers with or without the existing community. If that happens, complaining about someone who isn't breaking the rules will be like protesting death and taxes.