Anyone that was questioning my use of team killing against certain players such as LIBIAK ALI, I hope this may clear it up a bit as to why I do and why some others do too. Like a player in one of the mentioned games below stated, "sometimes it's worth the loss of points".

I mentioned in my previous thread a player named DONALD TRUMP was in a flag game where he sat on top of the flag in his tank. Sure no problem. Then I killed him fairly. This same thing happened three times. The problem was that when I killed him fairly he just left his dead tank on top of the flag until we were able to find a way to move him such as allowing ourselves to become tank and push him away.

Even a respectable Dogfight player on his team was team killing him because TRUMP was doing this. I resorted to tank spawn killing him repeatedly to stop him from repeating this over and over again. Eventually he left the game.

Now, was he cheating according to the set rules? No! Was he ruining the game? Yes! Once he left the game it ended up being a great game.

I saw DONALD TRUMP in a game one or two days later. Flying Toaster can verify this. I mention what TRUMP did and TRUMP immediately said "yes I did do it and I was wrong. I apologize". Everything played out fine in this game.

Then just today, a little while ago he and I are in a btc game. Somehow I see that he is sitting dead on top of our carrier and has been like this for a long time. About three times I pass the comment if he can get in a plane. After many minutes go by and I mean many (maybe 30) I realize he did because he purposely team kills me. There were no reds around so there was no question about it. Plus I tried to evade his shots and he got me.

Ok it's obvious he has a grudge against me. Sure why wouldn't a player like that do anything to try and ruin a game. He did it before and now he has more reason to considering what happened in the past. Should I have left that game? Would that have been the right thing to do according to you all? I obviously can't just go on with the game as usual with this guy trying to team kill me. So I go after him and forget about what the reds are doing. No big deal as I see it because the game is already ruined. That's what happens when players like this enter Dogfight. They do things on purppose to ruin the games. Yes I reported him the first game and yes I did here too. What good will that do I don't know.

Very next game he once again enters a ctc game game that I was in with others where all was fine. As soon as he enters the same trash starts. So I once again ignore the actual game and focus on team killing him. He even tried setting up to tank spawn kill. I think he thought I wouldn't be able to catch onto that but yes I did. Eventually I get the five minute ban for taking action against him. Yes I reported him in this game too. I even have screen shots to send to Zup.

So yes in any of these games I could have left. According to you most of you that replied before that is the smart thing to do. But why should I have to leave? These types of players are the ones ruining the game so why should I or anyone else have to adjust according to them? And if they are right then why shouldn't we all play this way? Yes I know that is just dumb of me to say but when you think about it, it almost sounds right. Especially when so many respectable players also take advantage of situations but get the pleasure of having it over looked when they do it. They feel like it's ok if they do it but are against it when others do? Too much bs here.

Sure you can say that by me taking my coarse of action I am contributing to ruining the game and I would agree to some extent.

Here's the problem. What happens with these players? Not much or nothing at all it seems like. Someone mentioned they may get three day bans. Wow! Like that really does much. They come right back and start up again. They are obviously here to ruin the game and can care less. Why shouldn't they? It's too simple for them to get away with it. That's why this trash does exist here.

I hate to say it but yes it's true. Dogfight is a mess when it comes to addressing issues about players like this and with players who abuse the forum. Also with all that is allowed to happen on world chat and ingame chat. Apparently without moderators to assist in making Dogfight run smoothly this is what can be expected. It has been going on for as long as I know. My whole eight months here. It's a shame that this trash does continue.

Look, I am not whining or being a cry baby about all this. As you can see I will handle things as they come up. Frankly I am getting sick and tired of this trash repeatedly going on here and not much being done about it.

Anyone that even remotely knows me here knows that I play a fair game and try to respect everyone. I went as far as to offer any assistance to Zup and Dogfight in trying to clean things up here. Yes I would have used my best judgement should I have been given the okay and only dealt with players where there was no question that they did not belong here. Anything that would be questionable I would not leave up to me to make the call.

I do like playing Dogfight and for the most part things do run smoothly here in games. Problem is that way too much is tolerated and allowed and something should change about that. Maybe the only change that needs to be done is for me to just leave the game. After all that is the simplest and best solution if I don't like what is going on here. It's something that crosses my mind more and more.

I am just saying it really would be so much better here without all the trash that exists. I don't know if that's even possible but at least more attention should be drawn to it to address the issue. And no I am not a goody two shoe. I am just at the point and age in my life where I rather do without these things.

I know there will be many opinions from you all and many will differ from mine. Let's do everyone the favor and NOT blow this up to full scale as seems to be the norm here. I just wanted to share my thoughts on the topic and maybe needed to vent a bit. Lmao...more like a lot! Should anyone want to share theirs too, I welcome it. All I ask is that you stay on the topic (don't derail it) and do it respectfully.

airwolff wrote: can you please provide a system whereby total assholes can be banned, blocked, or otherwise prevented from being in the game. currently there are no moderators, there are no administrators, as far as we can see complaints go unnoticed or ignored. there are a number of current players that are notorious for abusing glithces, unsportsmanlike conduct within the scenarios, and generally being jerks.

will we get a respite from these problems?

zuperman wrote: I'm working on a better system. I moderate right now daily, going over the complains. I just don't reply to most of them, i just act upon them. So probably I need to make a system where people get a reply and don't think they've been ignored.

I think zuperman is already onto it and he might build a more robust reporting system after launch of Dogfight Elite. Till then hold on with your patience.

How many you can handle, there are so many and are you ready to take ban after ban to punish them. What about the game after you get a ban of 5 minutes, will they not ruin that game they are playing. Let Zuperman decide how to deal with them. Our job is to report them and challenge them being red.

Gradually you are loosing your peace, don't let this happen to you. Switch side whenever you can and report wherever possible with screenshot to enable zuperman to take necessary action.


Note: Don't think you are alone who is facing such situations. We made our point clear to Zuperman and he too acknowledged it. Let's give him time to take one job at a time as per his priorities.

I agree with you 100% Blue. It is for Zup and staff to deal with. Problem is from my past 8 months of experience here is that I do not see much getting done. I know it's more than maybe he can handle. Maybe he does need some assistance in doing so. I am not sayin I am the right person for the job but yes he should have some moderators around to help him out.

Whether I take a 5 minute ban or not, these players do exist here.

Maybe I am wrong in saying this but to me it's a very easy solution. When there is no doubt that a player is here to cause trouble...bammm...immediate ban on that player.

If something occurs that is questionable then that player should be addressed by Zup or staff accordingly.

Maybe Zup does have something better planned for the future that may work. I sure do hope so. Little by little it's getting real old and annoying seeing the same trash happening around here.

When I am in games or anywhere in Dogfight with players like you and the majority here it really is fun and a pleasure. There is no reason why any of the repeated offenders should still exist.

Dogfight is a very good game and so are many of the players. There is no reason why it shouldn't be great.

Yeah dude leave those guys alone...zup wil deal with it...there days are almost over!!!

Ha, I thought this thread was going to be about the election...

Gunz, I'm not saying your intentions are wrong, because I wholeheartedly agree that game-wrecking jerks have no place in DF. I even agree with the fact that DF's current punishment system is flawed and ineffective.

However, I can't say I agree with your solutions, but I understand the frustration of your problems. Like Blue said, it's going to take some patience. I've been with this community for over three years, and while some things have improved, many things have been left to want.

I'm hoping this new chapter of Dogfight will bring about some well-needed changes. I have a suggestion for the developers concerning bad players, that I've seen work well with other multiplayer games:

Implement some sort of reputation/karma system, where other players can "rate" others based on their sportsmanship. A simple thumbs up/down could work. Also, if the game detects that you break the rules (friendly fire, glitch exploits, etc), it will negatively affect your rating as well. Players who consistently receive bad ratings get matched with other bad players, while those in good standing can enjoy each other's company.

Of course, a proper matchmaking system needs to be made first, and the relative simplicity of this idea would need refining.

But like I said, I've played games where this worked really well.

Stay classy, Gunz, and give patience and support for the devs. They haven't abandoned us yet!

~Luna

Yup he's ruining games. Zup probably is on it. Until then I say we give them hell back. I don't like team killing, but if we all killed the team killer he or she would learn fast. Lol gj all.

[NLR] Luna wrote: Ha, I thought this thread was going to be about the election...

Gunz, I'm not saying your intentions are wrong, because I wholeheartedly agree that game-wrecking jerks have no place in DF. I even agree with the fact that DF's current punishment system is flawed and ineffective.

However, I can't say I agree with your solutions, but I understand the frustration of your problems. Like Blue said, it's going to take some patience. I've been with this community for over three years, and while some things have improved, many things have been left to want.

I'm hoping this new chapter of Dogfight will bring about some well-needed changes. I have a suggestion for the developers concerning bad players, that I've seen work well with other multiplayer games:

Implement some sort of reputation/karma system, where other players can "rate" others based on their sportsmanship. A simple thumbs up/down could work. Also, if the game detects that you break the rules (friendly fire, glitch exploits, etc), it will negatively affect your rating as well. Players who consistently receive bad ratings get matched with other bad players, while those in good standing can enjoy each other's company.

Of course, a proper matchmaking system needs to be made first, and the relative simplicity of this idea would need refining.

But like I said, I've played games where this worked really well.

Stay classy, Gunz, and give patience and support for the devs. They haven't abandoned us yet!

~Luna

Sorry Luna...no presidential debate party here

I can understand yours and Blue's and anyone else's point who may seem to think my approach is the wrong way. Well I followed the other way for way too long and it did absolutely no good.

I have only seen you in about a handful of games in my 8 months here. I play a lot. I am not sure how much you play but I am assuming not much at all since I don't see you around. I could be wrong though. I do however see you post every now and then. With that said I would think it's easier for you to have the attitude you do than a person like me that sees this trash day in and day out.

Let me start on your suggestion about rating and grouping players. It sounds pretty good but I can't see that working. I get a good feeling there would be way too many false ratings and create even more of a mess just as players are apparently falsely muted here now.

I should be patient right? I been here 8 months and it's been going on from day one. I think that qualifies me as being patient. More than half of the games that I played in tonight had trashy play in it. Some bannable and others that are not but definitely don't belong here such as tank glitching. Tank glitch? I have no clue about programming but I would have assumed this could have been rectified months ago. Maybe I am wrong.

I have no problems speaking up and that is why I made these threads. I hear from so many players around about the same issues that I speak of but unfortunately they often don't post. I guess it's smart of them to avoid the drama that goes on. It's not just me that feel this way. It is many of the Df community.

I am just trying to get something accomplished here aleady. It's been too long for my liking. I have been speaking up on the topic ever since I started playing here in DF. Maybe leaving is the only solution for me because I am finding DF to be more annoying than fun nowadays with players like this around. It's like an infestation. If not dealt with it will only grow and that seems to be true from what I see. Heck it has even affected how I go about playing the game. With the means I have, trying to be te exterminator is gonna go nowhere. I know that. That is why DF should have moderators that Zup trusts around to get rid of players like this and not just group them together.

This is how I would handle it. Immediate bans on those who 100% no doubt deserve it. This may not clear it all up but I think it's a good start.

Here are some screenshots of what I mention. Take note of the latter ones and read the discussions amongst players. Should these types of player been banned immediately according to my method none of these issues would have taken place.

Look, these jerks know the are getting away with it and that's why they continue to do so. I know I don't enjoy being around them. How much longer can I be patient? Well that I don't know and I guess I will just have to wait and see.

This is why leaving a game where these types of players are does not work. Sure it gets me out of the game but what about everyone else? They are left to deal with it espcially the ones that don't know to leave. And then how about the lower ranks that have no chance against them and are there only to get abused and their games ruined.

Now you can say have everyone leave the game and leave these types of players all alone in the game. That's no solution either because they too can leave the game and move on to the next one where they pull the same crappy play.

Only solution is to get rid of them the way I see it. I can only hope Zup and those involved see it this way too and not consider as a financial/business matter.

Other than that the most effective way to deal with these players from what I see is when all that are in the game with them team up and go after them. Blues and reds alike. Now if team killing isn't in the cards for some players, so be it. They should remain in the game and set off to the side and not assist these types of players. At least this way the reds can handle the situation (referred to as the "pass"). I have seen this done quite often and almost all of the times it will cause that player to leave the game.

Well the rumor is Trump is a well known df pilot with a different account. No names but it starts with C. If it's true he's a real jerk under his normal name so I am not surprised.

Any thoughts, McFate?

Um, you just sort of admitted it. U r good. Shame your a p.o.s.

I can't remember being in any games with the pilots in question but I have been in many games with Gunnz and have to say he always makes it enjoyable to have your a$$ handed to you,especially when you are looking down the barrel of his tank gun or just flying in the vicinty of his tank for that matter!(seems I am on the opposing team most times)
He has always seemed like a pretty level headed guy so if these guys piss him off that much that he wants to dole out some vigilanty justice and he doesn't mind paying the price then so be it!
I don't have the skills he does but if I see the mentioned players on the red side I will do my best to direct my fire in their direction! Maybe a hit list thread should be started to make things difficult for habitual game ruiners

The sad thing is Donald Trump isn't a bad flyer. I flew in a game with him this morning. I don't know if he gets bored, or when it looks like the score is going against us, he feels the need to go dirty . . . but it seems he inevitably winds up glitching, spawn killing, or team killing in almost every game I've seen him in.

pmoon1{WP-P} wrote: I can't remember being in any games with the pilots in question but I have been in many games with Gunnz and have to say he always makes it enjoyable to have your a$$ handed to you,especially when you are looking down the barrel of his tank gun or just flying in the vicinty of his tank for that matter!(seems I am on the opposing team most times)
He has always seemed like a pretty level headed guy so if these guys piss him off that much that he wants to dole out some vigilanty justice and he doesn't mind paying the price then so be it!
I don't have the skills he does but if I see the mentioned players on the red side I will do my best to direct my fire in their direction! Maybe a hit list thread should be started to make things difficult for habitual game ruiners

Thanks for the compliment bro!

You too are on your way. There's no doubt in my mind that you will be great in time to come.

If I may here is a helpful tip about how to become a better tanker.

Anytime you are 1/3 of the way or closer to enemy base and get shot down take the tank. That is unless you really need to get back to your base and defend against incoming reds. Just like in all of DF the more practice you get the better you become. Tanking is no different.

Hi all

Yes I am finding team killing a big problem at the moment , seems in last week tho there has been less tank glitching but more team killing

Yes , I think a better way of reporting in game would help discourage it

Tho everyone must remember that Zup is human and there for can only deal with so much at a time ,

But if we all report what we see , results will come

And I notice that trump is named he's but in my experiences he is not the worst at it

I only do what I do when the trash talk starts or when pilots plot to take me down (letting enemy pass, letting enemy know my 20, ect...) I'll be a good Donald from here on out unless the above mentioned happens. I love you Gunzzz

Donald Trump wrote: I only do what I do when the trash talk starts or when pilots plot to take me down (letting enemy pass, letting enemy know my 20, ect...) I'll be a good Donald from here on out unless the above mentioned happens. I love you Gunzzz

I can say thats not true. I came into a game with you never said a word and you took me out. So. No. Thats false.

Hmmm I don't remember even seeing your name. Sorry buddy. Clean slate? I'm a new Donald

Ill take it. I agree with a few other comments. When you play clean your a good shot and pilot. Makes me wonder sometimes who you may be. Lol. Either way. Sounds good.

Donald Trump wrote: I only do what I do when the trash talk starts or when pilots plot to take me down (letting enemy pass, letting enemy know my 20, ect...) I'll be a good Donald from here on out unless the above mentioned happens. I love you Gunzzz

Just had conversation with trump on wc. Seems he wanted to do all kinds of things with my motherbefore he got muted. I personally will hunt the scumbag down

Every single game I've been in with ole Donald dumb dumb. He has bombed his own hangers and shot his own team..that's a fact. He's not the only one..there were 3 in one game Donald being one of them. The other 2 was in squad's. Anyone that has been in game with me can tell ya I don't care if I win or lose..its not the most important thing to me..but I will stay no matter how bad im getting my rear kicked .. Maybe there upset that there not as good as people like Gunzzz or many other players in this game..when the answer is these players have put there time in on this game or they wouldn't be so darn good.. Maybe there dad wasn't around kicking the living crap out of them when they needed it..I don't know, but if your gonna do something do it right..if your not step aside and get out of the way..I don't get mad and have never got mad playing this game or mad at any player ever..causes heart attacks and I know first hand those aren't fun to have at all.

Interesting comment there 21..you said you are a new 21 and it would all be better..isn't that changing spots?..so how can u comment on another players spots.lol..

Your Mom spreads it regardless kid

Yah..she did mention a very disappointing sexual episode..maybe when ur a man eh boy!..lol
Also I was talking to 21.. why r u answering?..nice try 21 boy.

Ah bless yah DT...think you need to go to a therapist about your repressed sexual urges..its ok boy there is help!!!!!!

Donald Trump team kills just to team kill and undermine the game. He isn't "going to be good!" His whole point is to cause chaos. Makes me think that other games might be calling!

I don't get mad at any player ever..I'm going to spend my time searching for donald..really shouldn't mess with people that have nothing to do all day..I will.be carrying a tent, firewood and matches.

Gunzzz I was in a flag with. Trump I had the flag flying to our base he is in a tank right at our flag so I could not land when I got close he shot me down after I have ask him to PLEASE move n he didn't so that's the kind of player he is looking by the way he took the flag him self n won the game I really can't wait to see him in a game on r side or I really hope the other side n iam just going to blow him out of the Skye's or until he begged for Merci. I mean it I will not stop to he quits ONEKILL

I've been playing fair the last couple of days. I'm done trolling, it was fun for a little bit playing bad guy but I enjoy how nice and cool people can be on here when you play fair.